PDA

View Full Version : SHINOBI: Needs A Serious Rework!



Valoredramack
02-13-2019, 10:38 PM
So I have a Rep 13 Shinobi at this point and I've come to the conclusion that this hero has way too many drawbacks to be considered viable. I didn't play Shinobi prior to the nerf so I'm not even comparing him to whatever it was like before. All I know is that the current version of Shinobi is garbage compared to every other hero because not only does he have the least amount of health and incredibly low attack damage, but he is also the easiest Hero to punish in a counter attack and even his dodge is vulnerable to being guard broken...which is ridiculous. The Shinobi is supposed to be a mobile assassin and yet he's the one that is easy for other heroes to kill. The only thing that Shinobi is actually good at is running away when outnumbered. Normally in a game such as this...when a character has a low health then they are given other traits that help compensate, like high damage or maneuverability, but instead of giving the Shinobi skills that help him survive he has skills that punish him harder than any other hero in the game-- to the point that he easily dies in 2 or 3 strikes from a simple parry. The Shinobi is an assassin and yet his attacks are highly telegraphed and too easy to counter.

Here are more details about my issues with the Shinobi.


Problem #1 (Long Range Attack Not Effective) His long range attack is way too easy to parry and the amount of punishment from the parry is practically instant death from a free heavy attack. Not only does it drag the Shinobi to the ground to become an easy target but it also saps an enormous amount of stamina. Why does such a weak hero need to be punished so heavily from his own attacks when he already has a small health pool and low damage output?

Problem #2 (Damage Output Not Effective) His only viable attack is his basic light attack for two consecutive hits and even then his light attack is so weak that even other assassins will simply keep up their assault and trade damage whenever they can. The Shinobi cannot afford to trade hits with any other hero, but it happens anyway because a lot of heroes nowadays have traits that allow them to soak up a strike from their opponent without even interrupting their own attack, which is frustrating. Heroes that ignore attacks without having to block is nonsense, but that's an opinion for a different topic. Many heroes can kill Shinobi in two or three strikes, even an assassin like the Shaman can take out a Shinobi in a single cannibal attack when the Shinobi is at half-health. If the Shinobi is an assassin then why doesn' he have decent damage capabilities or a viable finishing move like the Orochi and Shaman have? His heavy attack is a joke and like most of his move sets, it is extremely telegraphed so the opponent can hard counter it.

Problem #3 (Combos): This is probably what I hate the most about the Shinobi, his Mix-Ups are his own worst enemy. The Shadow Dance (two light attacks consecutively) is literally the only combo without a massively punishable drawback. ALL of the other combos in the Shinobi's kit are ridiculously easy to hard counter. The Advanced Kick Mix Up is countered by simply side stepping right before the Backflip. Any combo involving the double dodge kick can be countered with a dodge or interrupted with an attack because it is too slow and extremely telegraphed. Quite frankly, the Shinobi needs move sets that are either uninterruptible or undodgeable, because his "unblockable" kick is weak compared to the utilities of other heroes, especially when you consider how easy it is for Black Prior to simply bulwark counter the Shinobi kick. Why give the Shinobi these fancy combos that can be blocked or dodged even when you execute everything perfectly? This is why most Shinobi players simply spam their light attack and hope they strike enough times to defeat their opponent, but one mistake and the Shinobi is on the edge of death. The Shinobi isn't even seen much in matches because he is so weak and non-threatening.

Problem #4 (Dodge): What is the point of turning into mist if you can be Guard Broken mid dodge? The double dodge is useful for making distance between the Shinobi and the opponent, but it is terrible when it comes to it's use in actual combat because it's highly vulnerable to punishment like the rest of the Shinobi's move sets.


Bottomline, I think it's ridiculous that a " mobile assassin" with the lowest health pool in the game, is forced to fight opponents at point blank distance using only light attacks because every other move set in his kit just makes it easier to get killed. His long ranged attack and combos are not worth the risk of getting parried and having all of my stamina wiped out, especially when those combos don't provide much damage even when every hit manages to connect with the opponent.


Please fix the Shinobi, this is not an effective hero...way too many flaws to be considerable playable.

Ubiflowessence
02-13-2019, 10:47 PM
Thank you for taking the time to share this! Are there any suggestions you'd like to share in terms of enhancements to Shinboi?

Does everyone else agree with OP or think's Shinobi is fine as is?

Vendelkin
02-13-2019, 11:26 PM
So I have a Rep 13 Shinobi at this point and I've come to the conclusion that this hero has way too many drawbacks to be considered viable. I didn't play Shinobi prior to the nerf so I'm not even comparing him to whatever it was like before. All I know is that the current version of Shinobi is garbage compared to every other hero because not only does he have the least amount of health and incredibly low attack damage, but he is also the easiest Hero to punish in a counter attack and even his dodge is vulnerable to being guard broken...which is ridiculous. The Shinobi is supposed to be a mobile assassin and yet he's the one that is easy for other heroes to kill. The only thing that Shinobi is actually good at is running away when outnumbered. Normally in a game such as this...when a character has a low health then they given other traits that help compensate, like high damage or maneuverability, but instead of giving the Shinobi skills that help him survive he has skills that punish him harder than any other hero in the game-- to the point that he easily dies in 2 or 3 strikes from a simply parry. The Shinobi is an assassin and yet his attacks are highly telegraphed and too easy to counter.

I already disagree. Shinobi is quite strong, and his health pool is literally only 10 hp (<10%) less than aramusha. Given shinobi does have the lowest HP but i's because he has some distinct advantages no one else has. I'm gonna talk about your points but also if I were do do anything different to shinobi I'd make his mix up game a little more interesting, and movement between attacks more intuitive. My Shinobi is rep 8 so I promise I know where I'm coming from. Also my best friend mains Shinobi and he has absolutely no concerns with the class in any situation.




Problem #1 (Long Range Attack Not Effective) His long range attack is way too easy to parry and the amount of punishment from the parry is practically instant death from a free heavy attack. Not only does it drag the Shinobi to the ground to become an easy target but it also saps an enormous amount of stamina. Why does such a weak hero need to be punished so heavily from his own attacks when he already has a small health pool and low damage output?

The reason for this is that his long range attack should NEVER be used in 1v1 known combat outright. Ranged attacks and Guard Breaks are an extremely valuable tool. and when hitting someone with a GB out of lock it's extremely hard to counter when they don't see it coming. His ranged attacks have 2 uses. when they are guaranteed after kicks, and when they are used to surprise. You should NEVER let a second ranged attack fly in a row ever. if you do this, you are just being dumb. when at that range the opponent cannot do anything to you, so yes, they have to have the ability to punish your massively advantageous ranged attacks. It's very balancing when you think about it. Also note shinobi stam pool is third from highest in the game. Final note for this one, the same moves that kill you in 3 hits would kill most of the cast in 3 hits too. (400-45 dmg strikes) it's not just Shinobi.



Problem #2 (Damage Output Not Effective) His only viable attack is his basic light attack for two consecutive hits and even then his light attack is so weak that even other assassins will simply keep up their assault and trade damage whenever they can. The Shinobi cannot afford to trade hits with any other hero, but it happens anyway because a lot of heroes nowadays have traits that allow them to soak up a strike from their opponent without even interrupting their own attack, which is frustrating. Heroes that ignore attacks without having to block is nonsense, but that's an opinion for a different topic. Many heroes can kill Shinobi in two or three strikes, even an assassin like the Shaman can take out a Shinobi in a single cannibal attack when the Shinobi is at half-health. If the Shinobi is an assassin then why doesn' he have decent damage capabilities or a viable finishing move like the Orochi and Shaman have? His heavy attack is a joke and like most of his move sets, it is extremely telegraphed so the opponent can hard counter it.

There are many decent damage options for the shinobi outside his two hit. Also the hits you talk about from others are their easy telegraphed punishable hits as well. Big dmg comes with bigger risk. Shinobi's double tap is actually pretty solid dmg for how easy it is to pull off. and by the way it's synergy with his double dodge makes it so he can get out of a lot of damaging situations that others can't while still keeping offensive pressure active. He also has some incredible bleeds, disablers, tricky bash powers to utilize the environment.

Going back to his two hit. it's 24 dmg. thats nothing to laugh at for an opening 500ms light from any direction. You compare this to orochi??? His opening 500ms lights are either 15 from the sides or 19 from the top on the double hit. Notice Shinobi's doubletap is actually STRONGER. On the highest HP enemy(lawbringer) you would have to get this move off 7 times if it's all you hit with, which really isnt that bad for a fairly safe double hit light.


Problem #3 (Combos): This is probably what I hate the most about the Shinobi, his Mix-Ups are his own worst enemy. The Shadow Dance (two light attacks consecutively) is literally the only combo without a massively punishable drawback. ALL of the other combos in the Shinobi's kit are ridiculously easy to hard counter. The Advanced Kick Mix Up is countered by simply side stepping right before the Backflip. Any combo involving the double dodge kick can be countered with a dodge or interrupted with an attack because it is too slow and extremely telegraphed. Quite frankly, the Shinobi needs move sets that are either uninterruptible or undodgeable, because his "unblockable" kick is garbage compared to the utilities of other heroes, especially when you consider how easy it is for Black Prior to simply bulwark counter the Shinobi kick. Why give the Shinobi these fancy combos that can be blocked or dodged even when you execute everything perfectly? This is why most Shinobi players simply spam their light attack and hope they strike enough times to defeat their opponent, but one mistake and the Shinobi is on the edge of death. The Shinobi isn't even seen much in matches because he is so weak and non-threatening.

Combo's in anyones kit are extremely easy to counter unless they are light spam. You can't just let heavies fly. you need to be feinting those bad boys into other manuevers. Also if you are using his double dodge as an attack you are doing it wrong. It's a defense. uninteruptiple makes no sense on his character. Undodgeable tho I can agree with. And I do also agree that the kit can get a little too predictable for those who are in the know. but really you gotta get into the feint game with him. When at range make people think you are gonna launch then feint out dodge in ONCE to provoke them to attack what they think is the second dodge and then parry. or delay the dodge and dodge the attack to get your double strike/kick which then guarantees a single range attack and puts you back at range, then roll forward for a heavy that you FEINT into another parry or something else. Shinobi is wonderful at mind games, but you do have to hard feint a lot of his crap. I wish he had a few other options at range myself after a back roll.

Also use your kicks for wall splats and you can often get into sickle rain if you trick people right.




Problem #4 (Dodge): What is the point of turning into mist if you can be Guard Broken mid dodge? The double dodge is useful for making distance between the Shinobi and the opponent, but it is terrible when it comes to it's use in actual combat because it's highly vulnerable to punishment like the rest of the Shinobi's move sets.
that is the vulnerability of dodge. Shinobi does have to be very methodical with his dodges. but it really isnt any more vulnerable to gb than anyone elses in reality.




Bottomline, I think it's ridiculous that a " mobile assassin" with the lowest health pool in the game, is forced to fight opponents at point blank distance using only light attacks because every other move set in his kit just makes it easier to get killed. His long ranged attack and combos are not worth the risk of getting parried and having all of my stamina wiped out, especially when those combos don't provide much damage even when every hit manages to connect with the opponent.


Please fix the Shinobi, this is not an effective hero...way too many flaws to be considerable playable.

I just don't know what to tell you at this point beyond what I've said. I'd love to see some more versatility added to his kit, but shinobi is by no means a weak hero. hes fun to play, requires a very high skill ceiling to master. and his mix-up/hardfeint game is very strong. If you don't like where hes at in duels or brawls just don't 1v1 with him. he kinda is meant for 4v4's by his very nature as a surprise attacker. As a final note because of his double dodge getting deflects with him is easier than any other assassin, and his deflect is arguably the best deflect in the game. I love the Nobi, and personally don't see him needing a buff. I mean have you have locked onto a person on a ladder way above you and pulled them off to their death with hsi ranged? have you ever grabed someone a literal floor above you via lock on with his gb and ledged them from a different floor? or surprise kicked some into a pit before they knew you were there? or slid under someone right before they parried your friends heavy? I mean seriously Shinobi is fun to play. He's just not meant for duels unless you want to mind game like crazy.

Sure it would be nice to see some soft feints on his heavies for ease of access, but there are a lot of people that need more work than the Shinobi does in this moment.

That being said if he was to be buffed I would want him to gain a few more options in his ranged combat, maybe easier access to his kick out of a single dodge instead of double, and some soft feints on his heavies at close range. Also yeah an undodgeable somewhere would be very nice as a chase down move for 1v1 (since ranged attacks aren't viable to just sling out ever)

I would not ever want his damage touched it's in a good place, nor the vulnerability of his ranged attacks, they are high risk high reward surprise attacks as they should be.

Valoredramack
02-14-2019, 01:15 AM
Vendelkin

As a Rep 13 Shinobi, I do not require noob tips about how to use the ranged attack or strategies for the other move sets-- been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

The point of this thread is to discuss the areas in which I believe the Shinobi has too many drawbacks that need to be balanced out. If you'd like to talk about your specific tactics, I suggest using the "Combat & Strategy" sub-forum for that purpose and perhaps you'll find a more inexperienced Shinobi that can benefit from your tips in lower-tier matches.

You're welcome to disagree with my points, but I've put enough time in this hero to know that it has problems. The fact that you believe that the Shinobi is not meant for duels only proves my point that the Shinobi is not viable. Every hero should be capable of being formidable in a duel; that's the entire purpose of playing a game like this. I'm sure there are plenty of players that realize that the Shinobi has a lot of move sets that are easier to counter and more punishable than the move sets of other heroes, that's just a visible fact and having played plenty of other heroes-- it's pretty obvious that the Shinobi is more punishable.

Also, anyone can parry and feint, that is not what this topic is about... this thread focuses on the lack of effectiveness of the Shinobi's particular move set, we're not talking about basic moves that anyone can do because that ignores the problem.

Vendelkin
02-14-2019, 03:35 AM
Fair enough! I sorta mispoke. I dont think he is bad in duels, its just his kit isnt FUN in duels. Also turns out im rep 9 shinobi not 8 my bad.

I personally think shinobi is in an okay state right now. Obviously not compared to heroes like jj or black prior, but overall decently balanced. I also think a lot more heroes need a rework before him, but no need to bring up that list. As i said near the end of my first response i wouldnt mind a shinobi buff. I just thought many of your excuses for why he sucked were wrong, in fact your thing about his lights is dead wrong cause his two hit light is quite strong comparatively. About the only one I agreed with is his combo mixup at close range is pretty boring and predictable.

To restate and further detail the buffs i would like to see on him after further thought and rereading some of my old writings about him:

I would give him some soft feints on top heavy any point in the chain, but that also ends the chain so he cant infinite with soft feints alone (similar in form to shaman feint into raven bleed with or without followup enabled too.)

More options at range to get close range beside attack then dodge roll. A fun idea here would require a slight nerf to make it possible. Make ranged heavies another 100ms slower, but give them a large feint window. If feinted they just dont fly, but if soft feinted in GB they hook onto the ground in front of the target player and speed drag you close without recovery time or into a light bash(minimal knockback). This might be a bit op tho im not sure.

AND finally give him an undodgeable heavy finisher from the sides. This would force sickle rain into top only but would give him assassin chasedown.

Ill finish tho by again saying although ID love these changes I also dont think he needs any of them to be viable, and others need a look at their kit first still.

Vendelkin
02-14-2019, 03:45 AM
Also its very hard to judge peoples skill on rep alone. If 13 rep in shinobi were all you had for example. Also i know a guy with 18 rep in shinobi who cant fight for beans because hes one of those jerks that just spams slide tackle unlock or plays opportunist and run away in 4v4. I dont mean to belittle your skills but the only thing i had to go off of was how you described his kit.

We.the.North
02-14-2019, 04:09 AM
Rep 58 ish Shinobi here, I'll try my best to contribute :


Problem #1 (Long Range Attack Not Effective) His long range attack is way too easy to parry and the amount of punishment from the parry is practically instant death from a free heavy attack. Not only does it drag the Shinobi to the ground to become an easy target but it also saps an enormous amount of stamina. Why does such a weak hero need to be punished so heavily from his own attacks when he already has a small health pool and low damage output?

Ranged attack are useless from neutral and I'm fine with that. Ranged GB needs to be used to punish an opponent who took a bait and whiffed an attack. During his recovery frames, your ranged GB is guaranteed. Sometime, the recovery frames of some attacks are too short for the GB to land, but the ranged heavy will connect. It takes a huge amount of experience with Shinobi to learn how to use the ranged attacks in a 1v1. But I do believe they are fine.

I wouldn't change the way our ranged attack works, because In group fights, that ranged GB is borderline OP when you become experienced enough to reliably land it ... but you kill your team if you whiff at wrong timing and massively feed revenge to the enemy. Shinobi has the highest skill cap of all character.

TLDR : I wouldn't change the way our ranged attacks get punished.



Problem #2 (Damage Output Not Effective) His only viable attack is his basic light attack for two consecutive hits and even then his light attack is so weak that even other assassins will simply keep up their assault and trade damage whenever they can. The Shinobi cannot afford to trade hits with any other hero, but it happens anyway because a lot of heroes nowadays have traits that allow them to soak up a strike from their opponent without even interrupting their own attack, which is frustrating. Heroes that ignore attacks without having to block is nonsense, but that's an opinion for a different topic. Many heroes can kill Shinobi in two or three strikes, even an assassin like the Shaman can take out a Shinobi in a single cannibal attack when the Shinobi is at half-health. If the Shinobi is an assassin then why doesn' he have decent damage capabilities or a viable finishing move like the Orochi and Shaman have? His heavy attack is a joke and like most of his move sets, it is extremely telegraphed so the opponent can hard counter it.

I will agree here Shinobi's damage output doesn't feel as high as it used to. Revenge shield got buffed and seems to procs more often in group fights, traits that boost hp of some characters, etc. On the other hand, Shinobi barely get executions off (so headhunter trait isn't that good). Also, there were a lot of 400 ms light attack spam added to the game. Shinobi feels squishier than ever and doesn'T kill as fast.

TLDR : I would indeed boost Shinobi's damage. But just a little to make up for how much more good at offense other heroes got while keeping solid defensive stats.



Problem #3 (Combos): This is probably what I hate the most about the Shinobi, his Mix-Ups are his own worst enemy. The Shadow Dance (two light attacks consecutively) is literally the only combo without a massively punishable drawback. ALL of the other combos in the Shinobi's kit are ridiculously easy to hard counter. The Advanced Kick Mix Up is countered by simply side stepping right before the Backflip. Any combo involving the double dodge kick can be countered with a dodge or interrupted with an attack because it is too slow and extremely telegraphed. Quite frankly, the Shinobi needs move sets that are either uninterruptible or undodgeable, because his "unblockable" kick is weak compared to the utilities of other heroes, especially when you consider how easy it is for Black Prior to simply bulwark counter the Shinobi kick. Why give the Shinobi these fancy combos that can be blocked or dodged even when you execute everything perfectly? This is why most Shinobi players simply spam their light attack and hope they strike enough times to defeat their opponent, but one mistake and the Shinobi is on the edge of death. The Shinobi isn't even seen much in matches because he is so weak and non-threatening.

Light + Light doesn't laughable damage and you wont finish any opponent with that. Mind you, Blackprior on a successful 500 ms light gets a free shield back into another free light for 40 damage. At this point, the Blackprior "light combo" is by far the best in the game.

The only "mix up" Shinobi has is all the sheninigans he can do with his quad dodging. And that uses so much stamina that he loses the tempo and momemtum right after it... I've been saying for a while Shinobi needs another way to get into mix ups !!

For instance, a Shinobi should be able to roll forward even if his charged ranged heavy is blocked. That way, after the roll, you can enter the sickle rain / back flip kick / nothing guardbreak or light+light dodge punish mix up. It would also massively help Shinobi ledge people if he could roll in after a block ranged heavy.

My other suggestion would be to allow Shinobi to hide part of his heavy attacks. Since Shinobis have the slowest heavy attack in the game, how about Ubisoft makes it so the indicator appears only during the last 300 ms of an heavy attack ?? That way, you'd see many more Shinobi throwing out heavy from neutral. And since it starts a chain even if the attack is blocked, then the Shinobi would be able to enter the sickle rain / cancel into guardbreak / cancel into light+light mix up.

TLDR : At high level, quad dodge isn't enough to "mix up". Shinobi need more confusing attacks and needs to be able to puts WAY more pressure (less stamina consumption)



Problem #4 (Dodge): What is the point of turning into mist if you can be Guard Broken mid dodge? The double dodge is useful for making distance between the Shinobi and the opponent, but it is terrible when it comes to it's use in actual combat because it's highly vulnerable to punishment like the rest of the Shinobi's move sets.

The double dodge is fine. Changing direction between dodges opens HUGE mindgame and is what actually allows you to use your ranged GB in a 1v1. For instance, against an opponent with a dodge attack, you can double dodge .... but aim to whiff your kick just short of your opponent. A lot of opponent will counter this with a dodge attack they will in turn whiff. The timing is often perfect for you to throw your ranged GB while they are in their dodge attack recovery frames.

Or another trick : works a lot against Shugokis. You dodge forward and then immediatly backward and start charging. They will whiff a light attack while trying to stagger you. You then ranged GB them while they are in recovery frames.

TLDR : Double dodge is indeed vulnerable to guardbreak ... keep that in mind and dont quad dodge while hugging your opponent. It has other uses and it is fine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shinobi do need a little rework, but here is what I think he needs :

- Being able to roll forward after a blocked charged heavy.

- Backflip needs to cancel attack tracking and give the Shinobi high damage reduction during the animation.

- The 2nd dodge which double dodging needs to cancel attack tracking ... the best dodging character in the game should be able to ... he even disapears !!

- Delay the heavy attack indicator from appearing for your opponent so even tho it's one of the slowest attack in the game, a Shinobi will start using it more and thus, get into more mix ups.

Vendelkin
02-14-2019, 04:26 AM
- Backflip needs to cancel attack tracking and give the Shinobi high damage reduction during the animation.

- The 2nd dodge which double dodging needs to cancel attack tracking ... the best dodging character in the game should be able to ... he even disapears !!

So much these two, they'd be really easy to implement rather than a full rework.

I'd forgotten about the backflip issue. I've died countless times by vacuum tracking when im backflipping away as gankers fly towards me on ice skates from all directions @_@ that is definately a needed fix.

pretoastedwaffl
02-14-2019, 08:51 AM
If anything shinobi needs a nerf. Deals 24 damage for a light chain when first one is gaurenteed and kick gets 25 damage as well as damage from accidental deflect. He can keep his distance too well and spam the double dodge into kit and retreat until he fakes the kick and gets a gb or until he lands the kick. The most annoying character in the game by far and fighting him in duels is soooo boring. Needs a lot of changes

Lotus.Sia
02-14-2019, 08:28 PM
Shinobi's side dodge kick is 600ms while the front or backward dodge kick is 500ms. Every kick should be 500ms.

Jacques-Le-Coq
02-15-2019, 03:09 AM
Hes a complete menace in 4v4, he needs to be reworked and done differently, make his ranged GB interruptible, like Shug's hug or Shamans bite, it sucks getting instagibbed whenever he grabs you during a 1vX. his lights need slightly less damage and more mixups. Otherwise i think hes complete cancer.

MrB3NX
02-15-2019, 05:32 AM
I'm rep 7 Shinobi and I totally agree with OP

it's very stupid how Shinobi turns into mist and still gets easily caught

his range attacks are always gonna ends up Shinobi being on his back with his little hp

his mix up attacks are trash , he must spam lights to do damage

Please Ubisoft make the Shinobi more useful .

Hormly
02-15-2019, 04:05 PM
I'm rep 7 Shinobi and I totally agree with OP

it's very stupid how Shinobi turns into mist and still gets easily caught

his range attacks are always gonna ends up Shinobi being on his back with his little hp

his mix up attacks are trash , he must spam lights to do damage

Please Ubisoft make the Shinobi more useful .

The mist thing is purely for coolness factor, you really want him to be the only guy who can't be countered during a dodge?

Helnekromancer
02-15-2019, 06:26 PM
Rep 16 with Shinobi, he needs a rework, he has such a punk ***** playstyle that makes both the Shinobi and his opponent frustrated. He is just like old shugoki where fighting him was an absolute chore.

Remove his dumb baseball slide he doesn't need it all it does is interrupt his teammates attacks with his corny entrance. Make it so if he lands a deflect he can perform a leg sweep that knocks the opponent down. So that he still keeps his knockdown

Make his first ranged heavy from backflip, unblockable and allow him soft feint the heavy into a light or zone

Remove the hyper armor from his kick but up the damage on the guaranteed heavy after kick

Allow him to cancel the second part of his zone, he has one of the coolest zones in the game but it isn't worth using because it's a free parry and with Shinobi you can make 1-2 mistakes before your dead.

pretoastedwaffl
02-15-2019, 06:42 PM
Shinobi is the biggest pu**y in for honor. Wish shinobi disappeared and never came back

MrB3NX
02-16-2019, 04:26 AM
The mist thing is purely for coolness factor, you really want him to be the only guy who can't be countered during a dodge?

he can't dodge all the time cuz stamina exists

also it's not broken because he got a very limited things to do when he turn into mist which mean you can easily predict it

giving his little hp , why not making his dodge more useful than others ? ? ?

it's a fair trade for me .

MrB3NX
02-16-2019, 04:28 AM
Rep 16 with Shinobi, he needs a rework, he has such a punk ***** playstyle that makes both the Shinobi and his opponent frustrated. He is just like old shugoki where fighting him was an absolute chore.

Remove his dumb baseball slide he doesn't need it all it does is interrupt his teammates attacks with his corny entrance. Make it so if he lands a deflect he can perform a leg sweep that knocks the opponent down. So that he still keeps his knockdown

Make his first ranged heavy from backflip, unblockable and allow him soft feint the heavy into a light or zone

Remove the hyper armor from his kick but up the damage on the guaranteed heavy after kick

Allow him to cancel the second part of his zone, he has one of the coolest zones in the game but it isn't worth using because it's a free parry and with Shinobi you can make 1-2 mistakes before your dead.

i agree with you

the sprint attack should be a flying kick that knockdown enemies like qonq .

DeamonXII
09-13-2019, 07:25 AM
Hello