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View Full Version : Either nerf Warden and Conqueror bashes with BP bash or don't nerf BP bash



Liduras
02-12-2019, 07:23 PM
Everyone is complaining about the fast recovery of BP's bashes, because the only way to counter it is dodging early by guessing. But Warden's and Conqueror's bashes can not be countered on reaction too.

If BP deserves a nerf because his bashes can not be countered on reaction, Warden and Conqueror deserve nerfs too because their bashes also can not be countered on reaction.

BP's bash is also weaker than Warden's and Conqueror's bashes. It can be dodged on reaction, so even if you guess it wrong, you can still avoid it on reaction. But if you guess wrong against Conqueror, you take guaranteed damage. If you guess wrong against Warden, you take almost guaranteed damage and guessing right against a Warden is much harder.

Warden deals 18 damage after a SB, BP deals 20 damage. Warden has much higher chance to land a GB (30 damage), has much lower chance of taking damage, and he has more than 50% chance of dealing damage. Warden's SB is obviously much stronger.

Either nerf Warden and Conqueror with BP or don't nerf BP. The Warden SB meta is finally over with BP. Pls don't bring the Warden SB meta again.

MuscleTech12018
02-12-2019, 07:58 PM
Everyone is complaining about the fast recovery of BP's bashes, because the only way to counter it is dodging early by guessing. But Warden's and Conqueror's bashes can not be countered on reaction too.

Aaaand here o stoped reading your post.

guest-4xn53EA8
02-12-2019, 07:59 PM
Aaaand here o stoped reading your post.

Same. Dude doesn't know what he's saying.

Knight_Raime
02-12-2019, 08:47 PM
Aaaand here o stoped reading your post.

Hes correct though. You can't punish eithers mix up on reaction. Dodging on their dodge only avoids the buffered bash (conq) and the uncharged bash (warden) and empty dodge into GB.

They both have more to their bash mix ups and thus are not countered on reaction. If both mix ups were perfectly reactable they would not be considered relatively safe or strong offensively by the competitive community.

I don't agree with not nerfing BP's bash recovery. But the OP has some what of a point.

Liduras
02-12-2019, 08:47 PM
Aaaand here o stoped reading your post.

"As a Warden/Conqueror main, i can't find an argument to defend the brokenly OP Warden/Conqueror bash, so i will write "stopped reading" as my response"

is basically what you said.

Liduras
02-12-2019, 08:57 PM
Same. Dude doesn't know what he's saying.

Then explain this: Why do you think it is balanced when Warden and Conqueror have unreactable bashes but it is OP when another hero has a bash that can not be countered on reaction? There is no reason to think like that except for being a Warden/Conqueror main.

Devils-_-legacy
02-12-2019, 08:57 PM
I think they all need toned down in recovery or follow up damage and there kit expanded (I like bps kit tho) they all feel like one trick pony's

pretoastedwaffl
02-12-2019, 10:47 PM
They all need some changes and hopefully ubi have seen my suggestions and other peoples ideas on how to tone them down a little.

UbiInsulin
02-12-2019, 11:13 PM
We've sent feedback on all the usual suspects re: bashes (Conq, Warden, and now BP). I don't personally have an update on what types of tweaks are being considered, but we've definitely noted the concern.

Devils-_-legacy
02-12-2019, 11:19 PM
We've sent feedback on all the usual suspects re: bashes (Conq, Warden, and now BP). I don't personally have an update on what types of tweaks are being considered, but we've definitely noted the concern.
my biggest concern is the amount you need to rely on them if your using these heros if they are tweaked there kits needs some compensation of sorts

ArchDukeInstinct
02-13-2019, 04:31 AM
Everyone is complaining about the fast recovery of BP's bashes, because the only way to counter it is dodging early by guessing. But Warden's and Conqueror's bashes can not be countered on reaction too.

Unfortunately this is a myth that just won't die. You can side dodge on reaction to a Conq's forward dash into shield bash and GB it, the timing is just very tight which makes sense for a move that only nets you 13 damage. Conq would have to hit you like 3 times make up for one punish. If it was countered with a GB punish every time you dodge it, it would be pretty much worthless. It's already extremely consistent to dodge > GB on reaction in the training arena on bots, you will get it almost every single time. I'd imagine an even extra 50ms let alone 100ms would kill this move and make it nothing more than a liability in very high end play.

The thing to watch out for is the fact that the shield bash mixup which occurs after an attack can branch into an attack early to counter a GB attempt (this early branching option does not exist for forward dash into bash). But shield bash mixup is already 700ms long to hit as it is so you'd almost never get hit to begin with.


If BP deserves a nerf because his bashes can not be countered on reaction, Warden and Conqueror deserve nerfs too because their bashes also can not be countered on reaction.

Gotta love how this is so backwards. Conq gets put on blast daily for his shield bash recovery, meanwhile BP's does way more damage with a far superior follow up in the form of bulwork slash and has even better recovery, now suddenly it's up for debate whether BP's bash should be nerfed.

Like I've said a billion times on these forums, I don't even mind if Conq's bash gets nerfed, just be ready to buff his other offense.

Tyrjo
02-13-2019, 07:24 AM
And while they are at it. Buff Warlords headbutt to 20 dmg and no recovery on miss. It's balanced.

SpaceJim12
02-13-2019, 09:44 AM
Don't forget about Valk nerf and Warlord's head butt nerf then.=)