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TimeToCrusade
02-12-2019, 08:38 AM
Since this season lowered the fun the game has to offer by a serious amount I wanted to talk about the very last fun thing to do in FH: Ledging people

Ledging is fun, always, it is never unfun to ledge somebody, and it is never unfun to see them insulting you for it. It's almost all I do in 4v4 for the past 3 seasons (basically since LB became too unbearable to play) so I'm gonna share my thought on every characters ledging potential

This will include throw range,bashes, feats, and how well they can deal with other hero's ledging capabilities

Note: this list only concerns 4v4 since other gamemodes basically have 0 ledges with few exceptions. This is based on my very long experience as playing with the sole purpose of ledging as many people as possible

S tier:
Warlord: Surprising no one, Warlord gets ridiculous throw range in all directions as well as crushing charge which can be directed for amazing drifts, or feinted to go for a gb instead. headbutt is also a nice tool for shorter ranges. Has access to the trap for a free kill

Only weakness is the fact that the charge is bugged and sometimes will stop, or go the opposite way you were aiming, or just go through the opponent without hitting them

Goki used to be here but more on that later

A tier:
Raider: more range than warlord but only in one direction, side dash into gb is a great tool to gb someone trying to bash you, as it will also ensure a counter gb if the ennemy feinted his bash for a gb. Also has access to trap

Conqueror: shieldbash with varying timings and shield charbe make for some great potential despite a clear lack of range compared to the other 2. The possibility to side bash adds to it

Shaman: people might not expect this one up here but hear me out: she has a free bash from a gb, which is pretty ez to get with your unblockable soft feint, so that combines the range of the throw, which is pretty damn good for an assassin, and the bash. Dash attacks are always a great tool to dodge incoming bashes without the risk of a gb. Has access to multiple traps

Shinobi: Range GB, kick, follow up kick, deflect teleporting behind the ennemy, he clearly has lots of tools to work with. The best tool being the follow up kick, good throw range, and your can do a gb instead. As far has his defense go, we has the double dash for amazing spacing. Clearly a good one, although you rarely see people using him that way.
Normal throw range is lacking though, but playing ledging with a shinobi is a dangerous game nonetheless

Warden: As always with warden , it's all about that shoulderbash. Charged bash gets amazing throw range, but most kills will probably come from mind games, especially if you cancel the bash after you start going and go for a gb. Side bash and back dash are also excellent defensive options

Valkyrie: Another one with lots of tools despite a lack of range: Softfeinted shieldbash, vortex,charged shieldbash that can be feinted and also a throw on one of her chain. The danger against her is the option she has and the amount of feinting. Access to trap. Can throw into vortex for extra throw range, but nothing warlord tier

B tier:
Shaolin: running kick and his stance are the highlight here, running kick is self explanatory and the stance gives you only good ledging options: kick, vortex, unblockable feinted into a gb and also the dash attack that throw ennemies back by quiet an amount. The teleportation is a free kill for anyone sitting waiting to ledge. Normal throw lack range tho. He is really a valk that has been undertuned a bit

Lawbringer: This one is A+ tier if you face naive ennemies, the main feature of Lawbro is obviously empaling charge...which kinda sucks in most cases, since it comes from one side, is blockable and drains all your stamina. The best way to use it is combined with a trap (you're gonna need an ally for that) or against unsuspectful ennemies. Where it shines is the tracking, unlike a running charge you have a GPS in your poleaxe that will make wonders sometimes, and obviously the range, pretty damn good.
You also get the shove, the range is short but it's guaranteed throw range on block, and you can charge on parries. Throw range is decent and feats are trash

Tiandi: palm strike and unpunishable kick, as well as Iframes on dodge heavies. Just mix all of that up for okay results, especially with the huge range on the kick, but you'll need to position yourself in order to get the ledge on

BP: As far as ledging is concerned, he is a worse version of conq, no shield charge and no sidebash. Can counter every bash with bulwark but unless you are a good vortiger you run the chance of guessing wrong and dying, which will be hilarious

Gladiator: You actually get lots of tools with this one:zone, bash, side bash, running bash, which requires a miss on the previous attack but gets good throw range, toestab and the unblockable throw. The problem here is that your side bash have poor tracking, toestab as low range, running bash is hard to connect etc...The only very good one is the zone obviously, but it's enough to make it decent. Bonus point for the bolas

Shugoki: Now I said this one was S tier imo, why ? Before his recent rework the charge pushed ennemies further and you could turn around at the start of it
This allowed you: 1- to push ennemies of almost all bridges in the game and 2- charge someone running after you. Now it barely ledges off the narrowest bridges and you cannot do epic drifts.
That being said the charge is the ultimate counter to anything coming at you on a bridge, just charge to be safe, and you still get the throw of gb, and his level 1 and 4 feats, that increase throw range and give you knocdowns on your heavies
I will always miss killing 12 people before the timer runs out on citadel gate tho..

Centurion: Not much to say, incrdibilis, kick ,and a bash off parry, also gets a free kill off a pugio, decent enough for the bottom of B tier

C tier:

JJ: Feinted kick, chokegrab...and that is pretty much it, not quiet enough to make it to B tier, however has great evasive actions which is pretty good but overall a bit underwhelming (only when it comes to ledging)

Kensei: like JJ, with worse ledging capabitilites but even better defense. Playing mind games with the pommel strike can grant you kills, so can dodge heavies
. Okay throw range, nothing spectacular either

Zerk: good throw range coupled with ridiculous feint into gb potential, that's about it but it can work very well, also, trap, although he can't really do that much with it in terms of ledging

HL: His kick has great range and his heavies will knock you back by a staggering amount, if they hit. Has access to trap, but its nothing amazing overall

Nobushi: Hidden stance into kick is the only thing keeping her off D tier, and it's not by a lot, we're getting into the trash pot here

D tier:
Aramusha: only got his full block counter, and that's it, basically any hero here has either one bad option or nothing

Nuxia: throwing chain finisher, that's it

PK: nothing

Orochi: nothing

So there it is, any thoughts ?

Inzzane_79
02-12-2019, 01:46 PM
Interresting, donīt really know what to do with that info but thatīs because I donīt care about ledging people. If I ledge someone it was either on accident or he positioned himself so bad in front of a ledge that I just have to. Maybe itīs also because I main Orochi and that guy has nothing to go for when it comes to ledging people lol

TimeToCrusade
02-13-2019, 08:24 AM
True, even if you wanted to you would probably fail half the time due to your throw range

Siegfried-Z
02-13-2019, 07:25 PM
I wanted to talk about the very last fun thing to do in FH: Ledging people

Wow. You're definitly a special case.
Ledging have always been one of the most toxic part of this game with light spam issue on console.

RagingtheReturn
02-13-2019, 09:03 PM
Only time I can get a satisfaction out of ledging is if I'm getting ganked and i am able to ledge one and kill the others. That or if you play an extremely spammy player that abuses bugs then ledging them gives me some satisfaction. Other than that though I feel bad if I ledge someone accidentally when we have a 1v1 fight that is actually fun to fight. I feel bad if you heavy hit them and accidentally knock them off the edge because 1v1's that are really skillful between the two players are fun to play actually making you enjoy the game whether you win or lose.

TimeToCrusade
02-14-2019, 09:31 AM
Wow. You're definitly a special case.
Ledging have always been one of the most toxic part of this game with light spam issue on console.

Well play LB for 9 seasons into every single op pick the game ever had, and suddenly you realize the only way you can win is ledging them and spamming emotes to get insulted at the end.
Funny thing is, according to you im the special case, not the ones who send death threats because i ledged them 10 times in a game

Vendelkin
02-14-2019, 10:12 AM
My piece, ledging isn't toxic. gotta be aware of your surroundings. it can be frustrating yes, but its part of the game. toxic is the people who rage quit because of ledging that cant counter gb or anticipate the attempt.

TimeToCrusade
02-14-2019, 11:08 AM
My piece, ledging isn't toxic. gotta be aware of your surroundings. it can be frustrating yes, but its part of the game. toxic is the people who rage quit because of ledging that cant counter gb or anticipate the attempt.

Thank you, apparently for Siegfried you can abuse op picks who get easy exploits to get 35dmg on a bash because "iTs ParT oF tHe GaMe" but ledging is not okay because Mr Ubermensch apparently says so and we all gotta do as he says

Happy to know he is amongst the people who ragequits vs me tho ^^

ChampionRuby50g
02-14-2019, 12:03 PM
Well play LB for 9 seasons into every single op pick the game ever had, and suddenly you realize the only way you can win is ledging them and spamming emotes to get insulted at the end.
Funny thing is, according to you im the special case, not the ones who send death threats because i ledged them 10 times in a game

Rep 60 LB here, and sure it’s hard to kill people as him these days, but if in 9 seasons and especially year 1 the only way you could win as LB was ledging people, it makes me think maybe Roman had some truth when he said LB players need to learn their mains.

Really hurt to say that as well. :/

Siegfried-Z
02-14-2019, 12:07 PM
Thank you, apparently for Siegfried you can abuse op picks who get easy exploits to get 35dmg on a bash because "iTs ParT oF tHe GaMe" but ledging is not okay because Mr Ubermensch apparently says so and we all gotta do as he says

Happy to know he is amongst the people who ragequits vs me tho ^^

I didn't say i quit against ledgers. So i dont care about your little peaks .

You're just too disturb to understand and think about things in an objective way. I did not say player abusing bugs such guaranteed SB with BP (because this is the only thing you want to talk about) are fine. I said you're wrong To rage against that each single day on the forum because this is a bug and they fix it. Even you say they didn't. .

To me ledging is for the weak in 1v1.
In 4v4 that's ok. I dont care . But, it makes me leaf each time we get a map with a lot of ledge possibilities and then all the opponents take LB, WL or Raider while they were playing others char before.
To me it just show the non competitive state of mind of a player.
I just leaf when i see a WL staying on a zone with traps on the bridge, crushing charge everyone.. what a gameplay !
To me there is no fun at ledging but some players are all the time looking for that.

That's why my 2 fav things in the game are To spam a spammer or to ledge someone who try to ledge me a few times before but fail.

TimeToCrusade
02-14-2019, 12:48 PM
Rep 60 LB here, and sure it’s hard to kill people as him these days, but if in 9 seasons and especially year 1 the only way you could win as LB was ledging people, it makes me think maybe Roman had some truth when he said LB players need to learn their mains.

Really hurt to say that as well. :/

I have a pretty good wr in 1v1 but stopped playing it anyway, playing at a disadvantage makes me insane

But the whole "l2p" narrative, please stop. What is there to learn? your ennemy stops attacking you either do nothing or try something and get dodged/parry, talk about gameplay

TimeToCrusade
02-14-2019, 12:52 PM
I didn't say i quit against ledgers. So i dont care about your little peaks .

You're just too disturb to understand and think about things in an objective way. I did not say player abusing bugs such guaranteed SB with BP (because this is the only thing you want to talk about) are fine. I said you're wrong To rage against that each single day on the forum because this is a bug and they fix it. Even you say they didn't. .

To me ledging is for the weak in 1v1.
In 4v4 that's ok. I dont care . But, it makes me leaf each time we get a map with a lot of ledge possibilities and then all the opponents take LB, WL or Raider while they were playing others char before.
To me it just show the non competitive state of mind of a player.
I just leaf when i see a WL staying on a zone with traps on the bridge, crushing charge everyone.. what a gameplay !
To me there is no fun at ledging but some players are all the time looking for that.

That's why my 2 fav things in the game are To spam a spammer or to ledge someone who try to ledge me a few times before but fail.

So because someone doesnt play the way you want them to they are "not competitive" ?

I'm gonna tell you something: this game is NOT competitive, it doesnt have the dephts to be, it's shallow as a puddle. All "advanced" techniques or whatever are exploits and glitches. The so called "top players" only have above average reflexes and that's it, that is all you need in this game, that and a top tier pick, anything else is secondary

Also, competitive mindset is about winning, so if someone ledges you to win, they actually have a competitive mindset. People like me who ledge for fun..well I am trying to have fun and people find this pathetic, tells a lot about the state of the community

TimeToCrusade
02-14-2019, 12:56 PM
Also: they didnt fix the late guard switch bug (which was the worst of all of them imo)
https://youtu.be/F6Wbwk959Ag?t=1m18s

Siegfried-Z
02-14-2019, 02:59 PM
So because someone doesnt play the way you want them to they are "not competitive" ?

I'm gonna tell you something: this game is NOT competitive, it doesnt have the dephts to be, it's shallow as a puddle. All "advanced" techniques or whatever are exploits and glitches. The so called "top players" only have above average reflexes and that's it, that is all you need in this game, that and a top tier pick, anything else is secondary

Also, competitive mindset is about winning, so if someone ledges you to win, they actually have a competitive mindset. People like me who ledge for fun..well I am trying to have fun and people find this pathetic, tells a lot about the state of the community

If you have fun at being a ledge expert then do it.
As i Said To you i dont quit against ledgers. I just dont like it. But the fact i dont like it isnt an attack .
I really dont get how so many people can enjoy playing spammy char such as Roch, Tiandi or Nuxia but the fact is a lot of players like them. It doesn't mean they are wrong . It's just my personnal point of view To dislike this kind of char.

Competitive is actually someone who is looking for challenge. Not looking for the easiest way to win.

That's why i dont play ranked anymore. People play like if their life was on the table.

mann61299
02-14-2019, 09:01 PM
I hate getting ledged, but that's on me as well if I don't pay attention to the environment. I will never like being ledged, but I have no problem with ledging someone or getting ledging by someone in any 4v4 mode. In a duel or brawl, I will never ledge an opponent unless it is by accident (I personally move away from environmental hazards in 1v1, but there are those who sit by the hazards and try to bait others so they can use them for an easy kill).

If playing vs AI, ledge in ALL modes...it is fun to ledge!