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guest-4xn53EA8
02-12-2019, 07:14 AM
If I don't use any character with bash attack to counter him, how do I punish him when I dodge his bash? He blocks any dodge attack.

Tyrjo
02-12-2019, 07:15 AM
You don't. It's a broken hero, released to sell season passes.

Goat_of_Vermund
02-12-2019, 07:38 AM
Very early dodge attacks and even guardbreaks might catch him, but I don't think there is a punish on reaction (which is unfair). If you dodge before the bash starts on prediction, you can punish it.

guest-4xn53EA8
02-12-2019, 07:46 AM
Very early dodge attacks and even guardbreaks might catch him, but I don't think there is a punish on reaction (which is unfair). If you dodge before the bash starts on prediction, you can punish it.

I've tried the GB, but he simply lights me in the face. It's just not fun to play against him.

Jacques-Le-Coq
02-12-2019, 08:05 AM
You don't. It's a broken hero, released to sell season passes.

Deja Vu? seems something like this has happened before.

TimeToCrusade
02-12-2019, 12:57 PM
Deja Vu? seems something like this has happened before.

You mean..every single new hero release?

SlayerOfSluts
02-12-2019, 01:42 PM
Broken hero to earn money.

Knight_Raime
02-12-2019, 05:57 PM
Dodge into GB is doable on a read but it's more consistent with raider due to his "fair" way to cancel dash recoveries with a GB/cgb.
Dodge attacks that can be done 100ms into your dodge (and kensei's) can be done on a tight reaction time. But other dodge attacks like pk and valk's and glads will not work on a reaction. Has to be on a read.

EvoX.
02-12-2019, 06:15 PM
You can't. At all. There's literally one person in the entire For Honor playerbase that would say otherwise, and that's the guy above.

Devils-_-legacy
02-12-2019, 06:50 PM
dodge to gb doesn't work in my experience but I've had a few lucky lights stop them other then that keep your space

guest-4xn53EA8
02-12-2019, 07:44 PM
Dodge into GB is doable on a read but it's more consistent with raider due to his "fair" way to cancel dash recoveries with a GB/cgb.
Dodge attacks that can be done 100ms into your dodge (and kensei's) can be done on a tight reaction time. But other dodge attacks like pk and valk's and glads will not work on a reaction. Has to be on a read.

Did you read what I wrote? GB is not an option. They will cancel it with a light attack.

MuscleTech12018
02-12-2019, 07:55 PM
You can't. At all. There's literally one person in the entire For Honor playerbase that would say otherwise, and that's the guy above.

So true :))

But somebody has to earn his posts :))

Knight_Raime
02-12-2019, 08:05 PM
Did you read what I wrote? GB is not an option. They will cancel it with a light attack.

You didn't say any of the sort in your OP. Black prior can't cancel his bash with an attack. Nor can he cancel the whiff recovery of his bash with an attack.

The only recovery cancel he has is on a whiffed light or heavy. And thats to go into bullwark stance.

Edit: okay i misread. By cancel you probably mean they will light attack to make my GB bounce off yes?

Thats not possible. As his recovery off of a bash is 600ms. To correctly dodge and GB youd be doing that before hes even qued the bash since its a read. So he cant light on reaction to a gb attempt.

guest-4xn53EA8
02-12-2019, 08:20 PM
Dodge into GB is doable on a read but it's more consistent with raider due to his "fair" way to cancel dash recoveries with a GB/cgb.
Dodge attacks that can be done 100ms into your dodge (and kensei's) can be done on a tight reaction time. But other dodge attacks like pk and valk's and glads will not work on a reaction. Has to be on a read.


You didn't say any of the sort in your OP. Black prior can't cancel his bash with an attack. Nor can he cancel the whiff recovery of his bash with an attack.

The only recovery cancel he has is on a whiffed light or heavy. And thats to go into bullwark stance.

Edit: okay i misread. By cancel you probably mean they will light attack to make my GB bounce off yes?

Thats not possible. As his recovery off of a bash is 600ms. To correctly dodge and GB youd be doing that before hes even qued the bash since its a read. So he cant light on reaction to a gb attempt.

Well sir, I have bad news for you. A GB is NOT guaranteed after you dodge his bash. You obviously haven't tried that. And you argument of doing things "on read" is very weak. But we all get it, you are trying your best to avoid your clearly broken new main to get nerfed. Good luck with that.

Knight_Raime
02-12-2019, 08:35 PM
Well sir, I have bad news for you. A GB is NOT guaranteed after you dodge his bash. You obviously haven't tried that. And you argument of doing things "on read" is very weak. But we all get it, you are trying your best to avoid your clearly broken new main to get nerfed. Good luck with that.

I've personally tested it. And the numbers of the game support that it is indeed possible to punish. If you don't want to believe me that's perfectly fine. I was posting to be helpful.

And no. I want his recovery to be nerfed on his bash just like everyone else. Ive stated so on this forum and the competitive reddit several times. You can feel free to check my post history if you want.

Anyway this isn't going anywhere so im just going to dip out. Good luck with dealing with BP. I hope you can figure him out and have a more enjoyable experience.

Brutal_DaDo
02-12-2019, 08:41 PM
I’ve tested this today and unfortunately you can’t pubish BP bash with a gb on reaction his recovery is too fast, the only way you can land a gb on his bash is on prediction

guest-4xn53EA8
02-12-2019, 08:49 PM
Dodge into GB is doable on a read but it's more consistent with raider due to his "fair" way to cancel dash recoveries with a GB/cgb.
Dodge attacks that can be done 100ms into your dodge (and kensei's) can be done on a tight reaction time. But other dodge attacks like pk and valk's and glads will not work on a reaction. Has to be on a read.


You didn't say any of the sort in your OP. Black prior can't cancel his bash with an attack. Nor can he cancel the whiff recovery of his bash with an attack.

The only recovery cancel he has is on a whiffed light or heavy. And thats to go into bullwark stance.

Edit: okay i misread. By cancel you probably mean they will light attack to make my GB bounce off yes?

Thats not possible. As his recovery off of a bash is 600ms. To correctly dodge and GB youd be doing that before hes even qued the bash since its a read. So he cant light on reaction to a gb attempt.


I've personally tested it. And the numbers of the game support that it is indeed possible to punish. If you don't want to believe me that's perfectly fine. I was posting to be helpful.

And no. I want his recovery to be nerfed on his bash just like everyone else. Ive stated so on this forum and the competitive reddit several times. You can feel free to check my post history if you want.

Anyway this isn't going anywhere so im just going to dip out. Good luck with dealing with BP. I hope you can figure him out and have a more enjoyable experience.

Raime, literally EVERYTHING is punishable if you do it "on read". The problem with it is that doing things "on read" at high tier is suicide. Do you want to dodge on read? GBed. Acting "on read" rather than on react is just not an option. And thanks for the good wishes on dealing with BP. Enjoy him before he gets nerfed.

Knight_Raime
02-12-2019, 11:12 PM
Raime, literally EVERYTHING is punishable if you do it "on read". The problem with it is that doing things "on read" at high tier is suicide. Do you want to dodge on read? GBed. Acting "on read" rather than on react is just not an option. And thanks for the good wishes on dealing with BP. Enjoy him before he gets nerfed.

Ah you're having the forum bug where it's continuing to quote multiple things. Just a heads up.
Anyway, reads are primarily how high tier works because everyone there has good reaction time. Meaning if it's reactable it's usually punished.
I already dodge on read to deal with conq and warden and i'm perfectly fine with that. So I don't have the issue with a dodge GB as a read punish for his bash.

But I do think it's recovery should be lengthened so dodge attacks as punishes are more consistent. I currently enjoy him and still will regardless of what they do or don't do to him because I enjoy his kit's design. I enjoyed centurion since he launched all the way until about 2 seasons ago despite him basically being garbage past season 5. I don't need a hero to be meta or amazing/op to enjoy them. My second favorite hero in the game is actually Aramusha and that guy has NEVER been good. But thanks for the wishes too.

guest-4xn53EA8
02-12-2019, 11:48 PM
You dont seem to understand. Warden and conq bashes are punishable in different ways when successfully dodged on react. BP bash can't be punished, that's why MOST of the people writing here consider him broken, along with other aspects. It's super safe to just keep spamming it. And I don't agree with high tier fights being driven by reads. You obviously haven't fought there a lot. You'll get parried till death, boy.

Vakris_One
02-13-2019, 12:12 AM
You dont seem to understand. Warden and conq bashes are punishable in different ways when successfully dodged on react. BP bash can't be punished, that's why MOST of the people writing here consider him broken, along with other aspects. It's super safe to just keep spamming it. And I don't agree with high tier fights being driven by reads. You obviously haven't fought there a lot. You'll get parried till death, boy.
You're actually proving that you have no experience in high tier and it's cringy that you believe you actually play at high tier with sentiments like "high tier fights aren't about reads".

Watch some competitive tournaments and scrims and you'll see that reads are a huge part of how people fight at higher levels.

Knight_Raime
02-13-2019, 12:15 AM
You dont seem to understand. Warden and conq bashes are punishable in different ways when successfully dodged on react. BP bash can't be punished, that's why MOST of the people writing here consider him broken, along with other aspects. It's super safe to just keep spamming it. And I don't agree with high tier fights being driven by reads. You obviously haven't fought there a lot. You'll get parried till death, boy.

Warden and conq bashes are a lot stronger when looking at their overall kit compared to prior and his bash. there for it makes sense to me on why you can punish them with a GB easier. Because to correctly read their mix up is quite the task. Versus BP where it's mostly just spacing. But as I already said i'm perfectly fine with it's recovery being nerfed a bit. I don't understand how reading leads to me being parried often.

ChampionRuby50g
02-13-2019, 02:46 AM
You can't. At all. There's literally one person in the entire For Honor playerbase that would say otherwise, and that's the guy above.

Wrong. I’ve done it with Beserker.

guest-4xn53EA8
02-13-2019, 03:49 AM
Wrong. I’ve done it with Beserker.

Oh yeah? And how is that, boy?

guest-4xn53EA8
02-13-2019, 03:50 AM
Dodge into GB is doable on a read but it's more consistent with raider due to his "fair" way to cancel dash recoveries with a GB/cgb.
Dodge attacks that can be done 100ms into your dodge (and kensei's) can be done on a tight reaction time. But other dodge attacks like pk and valk's and glads will not work on a reaction. Has to be on a read.


You didn't say any of the sort in your OP. Black prior can't cancel his bash with an attack. Nor can he cancel the whiff recovery of his bash with an attack.

The only recovery cancel he has is on a whiffed light or heavy. And thats to go into bullwark stance.

Edit: okay i misread. By cancel you probably mean they will light attack to make my GB bounce off yes?

Thats not possible. As his recovery off of a bash is 600ms. To correctly dodge and GB youd be doing that before hes even qued the bash since its a read. So he cant light on reaction to a gb attempt.


Wrong. I’ve done it with Beserker.


You're actually proving that you have no experience in high tier and it's cringy that you believe you actually play at high tier with sentiments like "high tier fights aren't about reads".

Watch some competitive tournaments and scrims and you'll see that reads are a huge part of how people fight at higher levels.

Do you even know what this discussion is about? Who are you I'm sorry???

ChampionRuby50g
02-13-2019, 04:15 AM
Oh yeah? And how is that, boy?

As per the title of your thread “how to punish failed BP bash” and then you say “If I don't use any character with bash attack”...

Well Beserker doesn’t have a bash attack. He has a dodge attack. So you use the dodge attack and punish it. Pretty simple really, kid.

ArchDukeInstinct
02-13-2019, 04:46 AM
Warden and conq bashes are a lot stronger when looking at their overall kit compared to prior and his bash. there for it makes sense to me on why you can punish them with a GB easier. Because to correctly read their mix up is quite the task. Versus BP where it's mostly just spacing. But as I already said i'm perfectly fine with it's recovery being nerfed a bit. I don't understand how reading leads to me being parried often.

What are you talking about? Overall kits? Prior's kit is leagues above Conqueror's in terms of offense. From his bash into light he can fast flow into bulwork slash getting 30 unblockable damage or 30 damage if he cancels into a GB to catch a parry attempt or a dodge. Conqueror has 4 terrible follow ups which can either be blocked or require extremely minimal reaction speed to avoid and even if you were to be hit by what can't be blocked, you only take an additional 13 damage.

Vakris_One
02-13-2019, 02:05 PM
Do you even know what this discussion is about? Who are you I'm sorry???
I am the ghost of Christmas past and yes I know what this discussion used to be, thanks for asking.

EvoX.
02-13-2019, 06:42 PM
Wrong. I’ve done it with Beserker.

Of course. You've done it, probably 1 out of 20 tries and on a prediction dodge, so that means everyone that says it's unpunishable, including tournament players, is wrong. My bad.


Warden and conq bashes are a lot stronger when looking at their overall kit compared to prior and his bash. there for it makes sense to me on why you can punish them with a GB easier. Because to correctly read their mix up is quite the task. Versus BP where it's mostly just spacing. But as I already said i'm perfectly fine with it's recovery being nerfed a bit. I don't understand how reading leads to me being parried often.

This is so wrong on so many levels. You're basically lying out of proportion to fit your case. Conqueror's overall kit is better? Reading his mixups is quite the task compared to Prior? I'm honestly speechless.

ChampionRuby50g
02-13-2019, 07:51 PM
Of course. You've done it, probably 1 out of 20 tries and on a prediction dodge, so that means everyone that says it's unpunishable, including tournament players, is wrong. My bad.


Doesn’t matter if I’ve done it once, twice, or twenty times. If I’ve punished a BP bash with a dodge attack before, that doesn’t mean “You can’t. At all.”

Because that Implys no matter what you do, you cant do damage to BP on a failed bash. Which is obviously false. So yeah, really is your bad for spreading false info.

Knight_Raime
02-13-2019, 07:57 PM
What are you talking about? Overall kits? Prior's kit is leagues above Conqueror's in terms of offense. From his bash into light he can fast flow into bulwork slash getting 30 unblockable damage or 30 damage if he cancels into a GB to catch a parry attempt or a dodge. Conqueror has 4 terrible follow ups which can either be blocked or require extremely minimal reaction speed to avoid and even if you were to be hit by what can't be blocked, you only take an additional 13 damage.

Conq can beat prediction dodges with queing a charged heavy input while dodging to canceling and then inputting a buffered bash. There was a post in the competitive reddit showing this.

On top of that you can charge heavy and then do your normal neutral bash based mix up by dashing out (and still having superior block) or you can soft feint that heavy into the other bash. Same person who made a post on the comp reddit about the thing i just mentioned also made one about this. It was either thornbush or filthyspanyard.

When you take those factors and combine it with other aspects about conqs bash (superior block protected, better range and tracking than bp's bash, and usable on side dodge) I consider conqs bash game harder to deal with/more powerful than BP's.

Black prior deff hits harder and has more going for him offensively. But my point was that I believe conq's bash based offense was more difficult to deal with.

Compared to BP's offense being pretty much trumped by spacing properly. His bash has no reach or tracking. Meaning delaying it basically serves zero benefit. And he can't chain into anything from a whiffed bash. His zone while having much better tracking is much slower and has a higher GB vulnerability than a move of 700ms normally has. And even though you can chain on a whiffed zone both options are very reactable.

Which just leaves bullwark slash. Which is mitigated by spacing. And black prior lacks any capability of chase down so he has no way to deal with spacing.

To again clarify. Im not trying to say conq is better offensively. Nor am i trying to down play bp. I just personally believe conq still holds the best bash based mix up in the game behind shinobi's slide tackle.

MCBooma16
02-13-2019, 08:15 PM
I've always been able to dodge GB a BP with Raider without getting hit by the follow-up light. Don't know why some of you say it's unpunishable.

Devils-_-legacy
02-13-2019, 09:14 PM
I've always been able to dodge GB a BP with Raider without getting hit by the follow-up light. Don't know why some of you say it's unpunishable.
maybe because Its a very tight window to do and Raider is a different story for obvious reasons lol.

ArchDukeInstinct
02-14-2019, 10:39 AM
Conq can beat prediction dodges with queing a charged heavy input while dodging to canceling and then inputting a buffered bash. There was a post in the competitive reddit showing this.

That's specifically if they did the dodge timing to avoid a delayed bash and it's a very tight timing to hit them before they can dodge again. Basically it's just an alternative to a dodge gb except a lot more effort and half the punish damage. So I don't really see the benefit of using it as it doesn't help you if the opponent dodges on the timing for a buffered bash or doesn't dodge at all.


https://youtu.be/oI1szwvrELQ


On top of that you can charge heavy and then do your normal neutral bash based mix up by dashing out (and still having superior block) or you can soft feint that heavy into the other bash. Same person who made a post on the comp reddit about the thing i just mentioned also made one about this. It was either thornbush or filthyspanyard.

But Prior already has dash and zone bashes from neutral, so he doesn't even have to telegraph that multiple options are on the table with a heavy charge and he also doesn't have the GB vulnerability from the charging state either. Though you can still say that shield uppercut while still double the stamina usage of shield bash is still much lower than Prior's zone.


When you take those factors and combine it with other aspects about conqs bash (superior block protected, better range and tracking than bp's bash, and usable on side dodge) I consider conqs bash game harder to deal with/more powerful than BP's.

The superior block isn't really relevant to the bash/gb mixup. If you want to interrupt a bash/gb mixup with a light on a read, you would just throw from the side.

The tracking and range is definitely better for Conqueror, but at the end of the day Prior is still doing nearly 10 extra damage with a nigh unpunishable miss recovery, and a potential extra 30 damage follow up.

EvoX.
02-14-2019, 03:39 PM
Doesn’t matter if I’ve done it once, twice, or twenty times. If I’ve punished a BP bash with a dodge attack before, that doesn’t mean “You can’t. At all.”

Because that Implys no matter what you do, you cant do damage to BP on a failed bash. Which is obviously false. So yeah, really is your bad for spreading false info.

If splitting hairs and strawmanning was going to be your argument, you were better of not writing anything. You can punish everything in the game on a prediction. You won't and cannot punish a Prior's SB unless you dodge before or as his own dodge starts, which is impossible without a hard read. Therefore it's unpunishable. This isn't false info, everyone is saying it. The casuals, the mid-tiers, the pros.

Just keep your meaningless 1-time experience to yourself next time.