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Xan.Kriegor.
02-11-2019, 04:03 AM
I've been a warlord main since day 1. He's had his ups and downs, and im really enjoying the fact that he finally has a little more versatility with his moveset. The thing is, hes been nothing but nerfed since day 1, i just simply don't understand. Every season and every update he becomes more and more unplayable. (not that this game is entirely playable at this point ESPECIALLY at a competitive level.) he's gone from the most technical fighter in the game to just another face on the roster. now that theyve slowed down his full block, taken away guaranteed heavy from parry, taken away headbutt from full block, taken away his guaranteed heavy after full block, nerfed his headbutt, pretty much there hasnt been a single thing done to improve him, only to cripple him especially against newcomers like vortiger who has bullwark and can move while in full block, can do 40 dmg right out the gate, his bashes are nearly unreactable, (can you tell i hate vort?) but i digress. i honestly dont want to complain i just want a detailed explanation as to why hes only getting nerfed? I'd really like to see something unblock able added to his attacks rather than his usual headbutt light combo, that doesnt even guarantee a light. i cant really speak for any other characters on the roster as ive only used wl and cent since the first dlc, but it seems like the new characters every dlc as well as nerfs/buffs are released on a "throw it out there and fix it later" type deal as and thats just killing your fanbase. I've gotten to the point where i cant play this game anymore, BUT IT HAS SO MUCH POTENTIAL! just really really poor execution. so tell me, whats going on with warlord? or better yet, what the hell is going on with this games balance in general?

ArchDukeInstinct
02-11-2019, 05:32 AM
Why do people always have to pretend that Warlord is some poor underdog that just can't get a break or something. The dude has been S tier since the game's launch, man.

And they always act like the nerfs he received were unjustified. He used to have insane dodge recoveries and an instant deploying full block that you could counter guard break from. Of course nonsense like that has to go and even when they were removing that they were still giving him damage buffs in the same patch.

Tyrjo
02-11-2019, 07:50 AM
Why do people always have to pretend that Warlord is some poor underdog that just can't get a break or something. The dude has been S tier since the game's launch, man.

And they always act like the nerfs he received were unjustified. He used to have insane dodge recoveries and an instant deploying full block that you could counter guard break from. Of course nonsense like that has to go and even when they were removing that they were still giving him damage buffs in the same patch.

He's only been S-tier because of the Crashing Charge. Now that it has been nerfed into being unusable he doesn't have that much going for him. Everything else he has in his kit is base line at best, even after the recent changes.

He has no real mix ups and the defensive part of his kit is severely lacking. The Full Block is terrible. The Parry Counter is terrible.

ArchDukeInstinct
02-11-2019, 08:07 AM
He's only been S-tier because of the Crashing Charge. Now that it has been nerfed into being unusable he doesn't have that much going for him. Everything else he has in his kit is base line at best, even after the recent changes.

Not for year 1 which is when he actually received most significant nerfs. He was leagues above most characters in terms of kit.

CanadianSoupMan
02-11-2019, 08:26 AM
I use warlord as a comparison to Vortiger a lot. Because Vortiger has all his general moves but way more OP and they added him the same time they nerfed warlord to dust. So any argument about Warlord being OP or unbalanced is inane at this point

ArchDukeInstinct
02-11-2019, 09:44 AM
I use warlord as a comparison to Vortiger a lot. Because Vortiger has all his general moves but way more OP and they added him the same time they nerfed warlord to dust. So any argument about Warlord being OP or unbalanced is inane at this point

He doesn't have Warlord's free win on GB > throw move.

Xan.Kriegor.
02-11-2019, 11:41 AM
Why do people always have to pretend that Warlord is some poor underdog that just can't get a break or something. The dude has been S tier since the game's launch, man.

And they always act like the nerfs he received were unjustified. He used to have insane dodge recoveries and an instant deploying full block that you could counter guard break from. Of course nonsense like that has to go and even when they were removing that they were still giving him damage buffs in the same patch.

you must not play him often, and no he hasnt, he was only s tier until his headbutt was nerfed in year 1. what dodge recoveries? can you give details cuz i been playing him every day for 3 years and dont know what youre talking about. oh and his full block isnt instant, its pretty much a full second to activate, making it useless unless you predict the next move, even then they can feint to gb. compared to all the other characters with fb, warlords doesnt really hold up competitively. also you CANNOT cgb from full block friend. you are completely wrong there.

Jastorm187
02-11-2019, 03:24 PM
Why do people always have to pretend that Warlord is some poor underdog that just can't get a break or something. The dude has been S tier since the game's launch, man.

And they always act like the nerfs he received were unjustified. He used to have insane dodge recoveries and an instant deploying full block that you could counter guard break from. Of course nonsense like that has to go and even when they were removing that they were still giving him damage buffs in the same patch.

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. You are thinking of release Warlord when he had a great kit compared to other released characters at the time. However he is now the worst heavy in the game. He is found at the bottom of the "state of balance" data for all factors for the past few seasons that devs release, and the only reason he was S tier at the highest competitive game play was crashing charge abuse. (Which is now nerfed).

Shug, JJ, conq, BP... All A tier or better. Shug is a mix up god now, JJ has insane AOE and the best damage to attack speed ratio, Conq has the most unpunishable bash that can come from 6 different methods, and BP gets the strongest full block in the game that beats just about everything and 20 dmg guaranteed lights after an unpunishable bash.

Warlord doesnt even have an unblockable attack yet, and his undodgeable comes from either a 50 stam zone or a full block... Because we all know you dodge to beat a full block....oh and a bash that if missed is punished by a free guard break, but dont worry we get a guaranteed 12 dmg off our headbutt if we manage to hit...that chains to... Nothing... Oh and dont forget that we have a counter in our kit that is best when not used... And a character with a shield that uses it to block only... And it blocks just as good as a dagger when a polearm is swung at it....

The only thing he can do well is ledge. Which most maps its easy to avoid or doesnt even exist.

Tyrjo
02-11-2019, 03:34 PM
Not for year 1 which is when he actually received most significant nerfs. He was leagues above most characters in terms of kit.

Year one? Ancient times. I'm talking about recently and after the new patch.


He doesn't have Warlord's free win on GB > throw move.

Duel maps aren't designed that way any longer. So, no free wins.

EvoX.
02-11-2019, 03:40 PM
Warlord is lackluster because they want your money by you buying Prior - you know, the one with the broken, unpunishable bash and a kit that's better than WL's in every possible way. Would you spend money on him if Warlord was as good? Maybe, but the chance is lessened, and they can't have that.

Goat_of_Vermund
02-11-2019, 04:25 PM
I think the bare minimum would be a feintable jump heavy, and at least one direction finisher being unblockable. The light after headbutt, fullblock or parry counter should also deal about/at least 20 damage.
I only feel warlords a strong opponent when I play pk or lawbringer, I don't get how could they ignore them so much. Some heroes just generously get great tools, while others get the most basic nothing to fend for themselves. Pk vs berserker, wl vs conq or wl vs prior says much about the balance team's quality of work.

Sneakly20
02-11-2019, 04:28 PM
I donít think you guys give enough credit to warlord than you should. His recent buffs have definitely helped him and we will see to what extent they have when the numbers are shown.

Crashing charge was nerfed but it was needed as it was pretty much used as a staple for his kit. Now it starts up later and you can dodge it if you are looking for it.

They got rid of his headbutt after leap heavy, it can happen much later as a single dodge right after being hit can avoid the GB and headbutt. So you fill it with zone which works well generally. Also now it is undodgeable.

Those saying heís the worse heavy maybe possible but LB still is stuck and shugo. Shugo got a rework sure but heís very easy to read. Nothing changed much fighting him. You can clearly tell if he lets the heavy fly or go to hug.

Warlord has gotten damage buffs and now throwing much harder hitting punishes now that his follow up heavies are 40 damage and with zone.

Now with comparisons to BP. BP to date has probably the best hero design wise outside of his bugs and recovery concerning his bash.
Both have superior lights which chain ( and I believe that the bash after superior light is actually a bug iirc) and I think warlords superior light actually hits harder. I donít remember exactly but Iím talking about the lights by themselves. BP has 20 while I think WL has 25.

Both have 40 damage follow up heavies. Same parry and GB punishes except for heavy parry as BP gets bash into light for 20 and I think WL has 25 from zone. Headbutt could use a damage buff and being able to chain. Donít see much else to do with it. And his fullblock has always been weak. But heís not as useless as this thread is making him.

Jastorm187
02-11-2019, 11:16 PM
No one is saying he is useless, we are saying he isnt up to par with his heavy counterparts. His recent buffs have been damage only and they put his damage on par with others for the elements that they changed. But damage means nothing if you cant get through defence and they have done nothing to help his kit.

Crashing charge nerf was to be expected due to its abuse, however the leaping strike without headbutt guarantee was just a nerf. The notes said not guaranteed if blocked but it isnt guaranteed ever instead.

He is the worst heavy. LB is a hybrid, not a heavy, so not part of this comparison. Shugo's mixup potential, his abillity to be a forward pushing force now makes him more competitive and able to get through peoples defence.

He is hitting harder but you exaggerate how much. His top heavy is 30 and his side heavy 35. Both up 5 dmg from before. So his light parry punish is now 35, his gb punish is 30. His zone is 25 as always and is now undodgeable. The only way to hit 40 is on a heavy finisher, Which wouldnt be included in any of his punishes.

As for the BP comparison you missed some things. BP bash to guarantee light is 20, Warlord is 12. BP doesnt get punished for missing a bash, WL misses headbut and its a free GB. Both have Heavy finishers at 40 from the sides, warlord gets less from the top, however BP has a heavy finisher as unblockable, warlords aren't. BP attack out of full block is unblockable, WL is undodgeable.(which makes no sense, who dodges a full block, im not sure the damage difference, i believe BP is 40, where WL is 30). BP from full block getting hit can shield flip any attack for 40(?) dmg, warlord can heabutt stab when fullblock is hit for 12 dmg. BP GB for 40dmg heavy, WL GB heavy for 30 (35 on wall splat). As for heavy parry, BP uses bash light for 20 bit uses half the stamina of WL zone for heavy bash parry. BP has all his moves worth it in his kit, Warlord has a parry shield counter that is worthless which is why zone is the heavy counter parry punish.
As for superior block light comparison, I cant remember the numbers, but as for straight light damage, BP has warlord beat by 3dmg in all cases... 8 damage after bash, and he gets to combo out of his guaranteed light.

Warlords are upset because BP was released as an upgraded Warlord and we were given a damage buff, another kit nerf and a pat on the head. Warlords kit is one of, if not the most nerfed kitt in the game, so forgive us for being a little upset that this hasnt been addressed

UbiInsulin
02-11-2019, 11:41 PM
i honestly dont want to complain i just want a detailed explanation as to why hes only getting nerfed? I'd really like to see something unblock able added to his attacks rather than his usual headbutt light combo, that doesnt even guarantee a light. i cant really speak for any other characters on the roster as ive only used wl and cent since the first dlc, but it seems like the new characters every dlc as well as nerfs/buffs are released on a "throw it out there and fix it later" type deal as and thats just killing your fanbase. I've gotten to the point where i cant play this game anymore, BUT IT HAS SO MUCH POTENTIAL! just really really poor execution. so tell me, whats going on with warlord? or better yet, what the hell is going on with this games balance in general?

From the latest patch notes (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-342840-16/patch-notes-v2040):

Developer Comment: The goal of these Warlord improvements is to remove the 1v1 power of the Crashing Charge. Weíre not happy with Out of Lock attacks being the defining feature of a character in 1v1 situations, so here we instead emphasize Warlordís Locked combat abilities by giving him new chain options, and improving the basic attacks.

WLs received buffs in addition to the OoL nerfs. Whether they were enough to compensate is not for me to say, but in the case of the last update, it wasn't meant to be a completely negative change to the hero.

Hormly
02-12-2019, 12:14 AM
Everything they changed was for the better, but they gave up before the end for reasons I can't imagine.

1) add something to his shield punch counter to make it situationally usable, perhaps a wall splat.

2) his fullblock is not just bad, it is functionally broken, literally confirming NOTHING off a hit against all but the OG heroes.

They were doing so well, but gave up at the finish line.

Maybe in another 1-2 years?

ArchDukeInstinct
02-12-2019, 03:32 AM
you must not play him often, and no he hasnt, he was only s tier until his headbutt was nerfed in year 1. what dodge recoveries? can you give details cuz i been playing him every day for 3 years and dont know what youre talking about. oh and his full block isnt instant, its pretty much a full second to activate, making it useless unless you predict the next move, even then they can feint to gb. compared to all the other characters with fb, warlords doesnt really hold up competitively. also you CANNOT cgb from full block friend. you are completely wrong there.

Hence, why I specifically said "he used to have" those things and hence why it's not exactly meaningful to say "he's only gotten nerfs" (which is not even true anyway) because it's not like he got nerfed for no reason at all.


You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. You are thinking of release Warlord when he had a great kit compared to other released characters at the time.

Again, that's why I specifically said "he used to have" those things. If people are going to refer to nerfs that happened over a year ago, then it's not unreasonable to point out what actually got nerfed and why it's obvious they were in the first place.


However he is now the worst heavy in the game. He is found at the bottom of the "state of balance" data for all factors for the past few seasons that devs release, and the only reason he was S tier at the highest competitive game play was crashing charge abuse. (Which is now nerfed).

All I can say to that is that it is a great disservice that the devs only started to do state of balance articles after season 3.


Warlord doesnt even have an unblockable attack yet, and his undodgeable comes from either a 50 stam zone or a full block... Because we all know you dodge to beat a full block....

Well headbutt is unblockable but I guess what you meant is an unblockable that can do good damage on it's own and be canceled, etc? If it's any consolation to you, Conqueror's fully charged heavy might as well not exist because of how bad it blows.

Anyway, jokes aside, I'm not here to say that Warlord isn't washed up (he's very washed up indeed), but rather all the "he's gotten nerfed on and on since day 1" is pretty biased and over exaggerated.


Year one? Ancient times. I'm talking about recently and after the new patch.

Exactly! It's ancient times, so why the hell do we still have to hear about all the nerfs Warlord received since day 1?

Jastorm187
02-13-2019, 12:38 AM
Arch: We keep bringing it up for the nerfs because warlord mains are tired of being nerfed while other characters get reworked and new characters are brought in that are way more debillitating then what we have been nerfed for. WL mains feel slighted from the treatment. Take crashing charge nerf for example. It was nerfed cause it was abused to win.... Fair enough we get a nerf... However the community has cried for a Conq SB nerf for ages with good reason.. Its abused to win. Hell Warlord headbutt was nerfed for abuse but still no SB nerf.

As for your headbutt comment... Headbutt is A bash not an unblockable attack. It does no damage at all, its supposed to help open guards but we cant chain it into anything. Unlike the conq bash that chains into infinite chains. Conq charge up isnt the greatest, ill give you that but its a hard hitting OOS punish, also works very well when you arent the focus on 4v4. Also Conq has a guaranteed unblockable if baited into hitting his full block which can be soft feinted from a heavy. Warlord has headbut stabfor a whole 12 dmg. now with the addition of BP it just shows how much more we feel ignored. The damage buff is nice, but all it did was bring our damage up to match every other heavy in the game... So it wasnt a buff ahead, it was a catch up to where we shoukd have been all along. We still have broken skills in our kit and a lack luster kit. No unblockable attacks, a highly punishable bash that has little benefit, a broken full block mechanic a parry counter that isnt worth using... Thats alot to be broken in one character kit.

ArchDukeInstinct
02-13-2019, 04:07 AM
However the community has cried for a Conq SB nerf for ages with good reason.. Its abused to win. Hell Warlord headbutt was nerfed for abuse but still no SB nerf.

The part of the community that endlessly harangues about Conqueror's shield bash also refuse to admit that compensation to other offense is required in order to nerf the move (I've talked to a ton of them on these forums), so it's really no shocker that the issue cannot progress when they're unwilling to accept basic facts and compromise.


As for your headbutt comment... Headbutt is A bash not an unblockable attack. It does no damage at all, its supposed to help open guards but we cant chain it into anything.

Yeah but it's a pretty moot point to say it does not do damage on it's own because it still guarantees damage.


Unlike the conq bash that chains into infinite chains.

For all intents and purposes it's basically the same thing because every follow up Conqueror has to a shield bash is garbage. What are you doing to do? Go into a shield bash mixup which is 700ms long and never going to hit? Go into a light that could be blocked or easily parried? Go into a heavy that you can just block? Go into a shield uppercut for 800ms which is also not going to hit a decent opponent? No one at the high end is going to use this stuff so it ends up being basically the same with both resetting to neutral and bash again. And sure you're right, that's a lot of "options" but surely if Warlord's full block is useless because it's unlikely to yield any damage for you (I agree), we can't pretend that Conq has useful follow ups to shield bash.


Conq charge up isnt the greatest, ill give you that but its a hard hitting OOS punish also works very well when you arent the focus on 4v4.

A lot of things we know are garbage become "okay" in 4v4.


Also Conq has a guaranteed unblockable if baited into hitting his full block which can be soft feinted from a heavy.

Uhhh? You just feint your parry attempt and that'll never happen. And for Warlords you can get 25 damage off of your parry of a heavy if it wasn't bait.


Warlord has headbut stabfor a whole 12 dmg. now with the addition of BP it just shows how much more we feel ignored. The damage buff is nice, but all it did was bring our damage up to match every other heavy in the game... So it wasnt a buff ahead, it was a catch up to where we shoukd have been all along. We still have broken skills in our kit and a lack luster kit. No unblockable attacks, a highly punishable bash that has little benefit, a broken full block mechanic a parry counter that isnt worth using... Thats alot to be broken in one character kit.

The main nerf proposed to shield bash was to make it's recovery time the same as headbutt, yet you say headbutt has little benefit. That's funny because that's exactly what I told all the goofs that wanted to nerf shield bash so badly and they insisted shield bash would be just fine afterwards. Nothing here for you to address but a funny aside.

Velentix
02-13-2019, 04:47 AM
I think the WL has the problem most of the OG chars have. He is simply outdated. his kit just too shallow. If you look at the problem people have with most top tier chars its generally due to a bash (conq/warden) that is a bit too abusable, or mix up potential. mix up potential not too many cry about because its mind games, you'll win some and lose some, in the end its all good.

now, when you get a char like WL who has a grand total of 2 chainable attacks regardless of what kind of attacks you use, a full block that can be completely negated via keeping a small amount of space between you plus a dodge back if the supposed undodgeable heavy gets thrown out immediately, he will just perform poorly, and worse boringly. most chars have some sort of gimmick you can fixate on whether it be a handy deflect, a cancelable unblockable, soft feint(s), traps, dodge attacks, or cancelable bash. warlord has none of these things (i'm not counting his headsplitter move, its only used for wallsplats or is parried). even if his heavy parry into zone punish is good damage wise, it is a zone, which comes with a large stamina cost. add in how many bashes take a good chunk of stamina away, it becomes an either fight stopping move for warlord to use because he now has to regain stamina, or puts him in a position where he gets the damage but will likely be OOS a couple seconds later. He is just outdated. Adding in the 2 extra 2 move combos didn't help him much, because he still has no real offensive pressure. plus his range is the worst out of all of the heavies, and his mobility blows. especially when comparing his HB to say BP's heavy feinted to shield charge, the range discrepency is pathetic. he simply needs a complete rework, one that will include a special move or two that he can rely on. Hint to the devs: you don't only use a shield to block.

tldr: the shallowness of his kit is what led to players abusing his CC GB 50/50. players want to win, and the fact that a huge chunk of WLs would abuse that 50/50 shows that his kit is severly lacking. he needs something unique put into his kit to make him viable.

Xan.Kriegor.
02-13-2019, 08:08 AM
From the latest patch notes (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-342840-16/patch-notes-v2040):


WLs received buffs in addition to the OoL nerfs. Whether they were enough to compensate is not for me to say, but in the case of the last update, it wasn't meant to be a completely negative change to the hero.

thank you for replying, i like that you guys are getting involved with your community. I get his ool charge was meta for a while. but it was the only opener he had in his kit. I'd like to see the character really looked at in depth, and possibly getting a comprehensive overhaul, much like shugo or zerk. as he stands in this current update, hes not viable in most situations.