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pretoastedwaffl
02-10-2019, 03:40 PM
This bash has killed for honor season 9. I thought conquerors bash was bad but honestly this bash is op. There's no counter to it and it deals a lot of damage. Playing ranked mode is so dead when you have to wait ten minutes to finally find a match and then lose because of the light bash light combo. Please make some changes urgently

rottmeister
02-10-2019, 04:05 PM
Ranked was already dead before.
Took me hours to get quallified because no one played it.
Fortunately I got the color palette I wanted.

I don't like bashes like Warden's, Conq's or BP's either. Wishing the devs would implement better ways to "open up" an enemy.

Also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5d42w4ZcY4

The title of this thread made me giggle.

pretoastedwaffl
02-10-2019, 04:15 PM
Ahahaha brilliant 😂 😂. Yeah I play Warden a lot and I hate it when we bash spam but it is the worst of the bashes. Conqueror and BP have really op bashes. A nerf to all three bashes would be good. I've suggested a few times how to nerf the different bashes but I'm not sure if they've seen the ideas yet.

rottmeister
02-10-2019, 04:24 PM
Before ArchDukeInstinct jumps in and says how a nerf to Conq's bash would render him nearly useless, maybe it's also a good thing to keep in mind that these bash heavy heroes need some "compensation" if their bashes were to be nerfed. BP would probably still function well, but Conq and Warden probably wouldn't. For Warden I've seen a lot of people suggest to make him more into a knight that actually uses his sword and has a special stance. I'm not going into detail because I know nothing about knights. I honestly don't know what they could do to Conq.


EDIT: I haven't read your ideas to nerf bashes yet, but I'll take a look when I have the time.

pretoastedwaffl
02-10-2019, 04:31 PM
Warden shouldn't be able to cancel bash as late when charged. He shouldn't be able to continue bash into a vortex after initial bash. And he should have quicker recovery rate on top heavy finisher.
Conqueror should have a slightly slower bash and slower recovery rate.
BP should have less damage from 20 to 15 and a slower recovery rate. Bash or zone could be a little slower as well.

E-Chevy
02-10-2019, 05:43 PM
When in doubt, play JJ. Ain't nothing gonna stop them from bash spam like giving them cancer.

pretoastedwaffl
02-10-2019, 07:38 PM
That's true the wu lin is quite cancerous. Absolutely hate them

ArchDukeInstinct
02-10-2019, 09:28 PM
Ahahaha brilliant �� ��. Yeah I play Warden a lot and I hate it when we bash spam but it is the worst of the bashes. Conqueror and BP have really op bashes. A nerf to all three bashes would be good. I've suggested a few times how to nerf the different bashes but I'm not sure if they've seen the ideas yet.

What are you talking about? Warden's bash is way better than Conqueror's and Black Prior's bash. Conqueror's bash is garbage damage with no viable follow up and Black Prior's bash has garbage tracking and range. Warden can just repeatedly charge up a shoulder charge and if the opponent dodges early (because if they don't they'll get hit by an uncharged bash for 18 damage) then you let the full charge happen and get a free 40 damage. Then you can then immediately transition into your unblockable 40 damage top heavy or another bash. If they guessed right and don't do anything, Warden just cancels and gets off scott free. Warden also has a dedicated roll catching move.


Before ArchDukeInstinct jumps in and says how a nerf to Conq's bash would render him nearly useless, maybe it's also a good thing to keep in mind that these bash heavy heroes need some "compensation" if their bashes were to be nerfed. BP would probably still function well, but Conq and Warden probably wouldn't. For Warden I've seen a lot of people suggest to make him more into a knight that actually uses his sword and has a special stance.

I didn't say it would make him useless, I said he would have no viable offense and would have to turtle to win matches. Trust me, people will be really crying then. There will need to be wet floor signs everywhere on these forums.


I'm not going into detail because I know nothing about knights. I honestly don't know what they could do to Conq.

They should leverage the charged heavy and make it worthwhile like I suggested a while ago.

V1vson
02-10-2019, 11:18 PM
They does not care about the balance.Shield bash, Heal, best counter? Devs, why Vortiger doesn't got fast LA spam? Add it please!
P.S. meta is broken. Again...

RiceComboA
02-11-2019, 02:31 AM
Bashes aren't the issue in and of itself. We need to look at the bigger picture: How other heroes can respond to them.

On one hand, Players who use Heroes with dodge attacks/bashes, dodge GB (raiders) or HidS/BulC/SeifS, will not see it as an issue.
If they read correctly, they can avoid damage, and even counter with their own attacks.

On the other side, Players who chose to play Heroes without these moves will be frustrated because they have no way to counter/break out of the vicious cycle of bash, light, or worse.
If they read correctly and dodge, they receive zero reward and everything goes back to neutral, where in the bash cycle can continue. (Stamina cost is miniscule on bashes)
Frustration will mount, causing them to voice their opinion on the forum and then get told to Git Gud" by the former group of players because we're all toxic.

How do you balance that? Not up to me really here, but you know who's bash isn't so annoying?
The good ol Nobushi.
Manage to dodge the kick? There's a free GB...unless she qued up a light, then you eat that in the face.
Read her like a book and saw the light coming? Free parry for ya! Everyone is happy.
Make all bashes like that. 50/50 is still there, fair no? Thoughts?

Vendelkin
02-11-2019, 07:25 AM
Thoughts? I like this thread. Seriously tho characters without dodge attacks or the skills you mentioned are frustrating to play right now. Ive been wanting a dodge attack for ages on aramusha (heavy assasin hybrid who has 1 hyper armor attack, no regular bash and absolutely nothing that makes him assasin like either except his soft feint chain game) i mean really who is the aramusha but a glorified infinite chain? Full block doesnt ever work in competent pvp. Sorry mild hijack, but yeah i seriously agree with you.

LedgeAllegiance
02-12-2019, 02:20 AM
Bashes aren't the issue in and of itself. We need to look at the bigger picture: How other heroes can respond to them.

On one hand, Players who use Heroes with dodge attacks/bashes, dodge GB (raiders) or HidS/BulC/SeifS, will not see it as an issue.
If they read correctly, they can avoid damage, and even counter with their own attacks.

On the other side, Players who chose to play Heroes without these moves will be frustrated because they have no way to counter/break out of the vicious cycle of bash, light, or worse.
If they read correctly and dodge, they receive zero reward and everything goes back to neutral, where in the bash cycle can continue. (Stamina cost is miniscule on bashes)
Frustration will mount, causing them to voice their opinion on the forum and then get told to Git Gud" by the former group of players because we're all toxic.

How do you balance that? Not up to me really here, but you know who's bash isn't so annoying?
The good ol Nobushi.
Manage to dodge the kick? There's a free GB...unless she qued up a light, then you eat that in the face.
Read her like a book and saw the light coming? Free parry for ya! Everyone is happy.
Make all bashes like that. 50/50 is still there, fair no? Thoughts?

I made a suggestion to fix a lot of issues with all the characters would be to make any ub of any type only be guaranteed follow up if it lands but gb light/heavy punished if missed. Example: valks sweep if missed has large recovery time and punishable by dodging attacks or gb.

I play raider and cant dodge gb BP sb or a lot of new heroes due to light that follows the missing ub. Not sure how much would be involved to make this change but would fix all the no risk, high reward attacks going on. Just my opinion though. Let me know what you think.

RiceComboA
02-12-2019, 07:24 PM
I made a suggestion to fix a lot of issues with all the characters would be to make any ub of any type only be guaranteed follow up if it lands but gb light/heavy punished if missed. Example: valks sweep if missed has large recovery time and punishable by dodging attacks or gb.

I play raider and cant dodge gb BP sb or a lot of new heroes due to light that follows the missing ub. Not sure how much would be involved to make this change but would fix all the no risk, high reward attacks going on. Just my opinion though. Let me know what you think.

A guaranteed punish may not be the best solution. We will just roll back to the defensive meta with staring matches to see who gets bored and make the first stupid move.

I agree that there should be enough recovery on a missed to give the other party some form of retaliation so it doesn't feel like highway robbery for some of the picks. I think that would encourage some sort of mind game/mix up plays other than just spamming a simple bash over and over till it works. As I mentioned earlier, the nobu's kick comes to mind, allowing a missed basher to cancel the recovery with a qued follow up attack to ward off a GB. Counter plays and just out witting your opponent is way more rewarding for me than just picking the cheapest Hero.

I've never played Raider, but I think you're somewhat safe from the bash/GB mix up no? If you know they've qued a light after they missed, then you should anticipate it and wait to parry.

LedgeAllegiance
02-13-2019, 12:11 AM
A guaranteed punish may not be the best solution. We will just roll back to the defensive meta with staring matches to see who gets bored and make the first move.

I've never played Raider, but I think you're somewhat safe from the bash/GB mix up no? If you know they've qued a light after they missed, then you should anticipate it and wait to parry.

I can agree there didnt think of that causing more turtle meta. Problem is with most assassins is BP is able to block the attack even after missing bash or lights. BP is able to block valks superior light. Will get proof in a video next time I record.

I still struggle with raider dodge/parry but know it is possible. I havent been able to dodge bash and light to get a gb yet but may be possible. BP is able to block dodging stun tap from raider even after missed bash.

Why I believe he needs his recovery times needs looking into especailly from missed bashes.