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bloodstonejp
02-09-2019, 10:38 AM
1. Too long cooldowns on skills.
2. No PvE darkzone.
3. Endless enemy spawn in boss fights.
4. Playable area is too small for a sequel.

TW-GER
02-09-2019, 10:47 AM
1. shorter cooldowns would make the game way to easy.
2. No mistake, it is like it should be. I don't see any problem here and I'm not a very good pvp'er as well.
3. Yes, thank you for not a fast cow milking. Same as point 1., otherwise it would be to easy.
4. don't understand what you are saying here, guess my english is to bad for that. You mean in the BETA or in general ?

Cruciform3
02-09-2019, 11:31 AM
Naaa, I THINK he is referring to the overall map looking a bit smaller than the original. That was my first thought when I played, but I think there is going to be much more to do this time around, and you don't need an extra big map with a lot of empty space. I think the map is indeed a bit smaller, but more congested than the original. Should be plenty to do at release.

Merphee
02-09-2019, 11:36 AM
1. Too long cooldowns on skills.

There is a stat in the game that directly shortens skill cool down.


2. No PvE darkzone.

You have Control Points, Unknown Activities, Bounties, roaming named enemies, even supply drops, for the love of God. You people are still asking for one? Jesus christ.


3. Endless enemy spawn in boss fights.

Non-issue.


4. Playable area is too small for a sequel.

You.
Are.
Playing.
A.
Beta.

+ map expansions have already been confirmed and Division 2's map is 20% bigger than Division 1's map.

TW-GER
02-09-2019, 01:12 PM
I forgot to mention to your 1st point. You realized there are several ( I believe 15 ) diffrent gear sets even at these low lvls. And some do have lower cooldowntime on it. So you can't have it all and I'm grateful for that.

TW-GER
02-09-2019, 01:14 PM
thank you so much. I'm totaly with you.

Zankojima
02-09-2019, 02:29 PM
2. No PvE darkzone.


This is the only point i agree with. They are happy, because like D1 DZ doesnt have queue timer and want easy kills.

jlomein
02-09-2019, 02:41 PM
1. Too long cooldowns on skills.


I do tend to agree on this one. It usually means after a fight I will be sitting around stationary doing nothing so my skills can cool down before I move to the next area. I have +20% Skill Cooldown from gear bonuses.

Dr.Jonis101
02-09-2019, 03:48 PM
Why do I see so many complaints about a no PvE Dark Zone? It's mindboggling how you can complain about this. It isn't a Dark Zone without lawlessness.

Plus, if you could take all the finite resources and nobody could do anything about it, there'd be no point to have the Dark Zone.

Imagine for a moment people playing a PvE only Dark Zone and the only gameplay is trying to ninjaloot chests and drops from each other. Extraction would be a 100% useless mechanic because there's no risk.

Needless to be said, I don't think you've thought it through. At all.

Millenium_Exile
02-14-2019, 10:29 AM
1. shorter cooldowns would make the game way to easy.
2. No mistake, it is like it should be. I don't see any problem here and I'm not a very good pvp'er as well.
3. Yes, thank you for not a fast cow milking. Same as point 1., otherwise it would be to easy.
4. don't understand what you are saying here, guess my english is to bad for that. You mean in the BETA or in general ?


Dr.Jonis101 said:4 Days Ago

Why do I see so many complaints about a no PvE Dark Zone? It's mindboggling how you can complain about this. It isn't a Dark Zone without lawlessness.

Plus, if you could take all the finite resources and nobody could do anything about it, there'd be no point to have the Dark Zone.

Imagine for a moment people playing a PvE only Dark Zone and the only gameplay is trying to ninjaloot chests and drops from each other. Extraction would be a 100% useless mechanic because there's no risk.

Needless to be said, I don't think you've thought it through. At all.


HERO'S RIGHT HERE.
Thank you

electricbil2019
02-14-2019, 12:01 PM
Why do I see so many complaints about a no PvE Dark Zone? It's mindboggling how you can complain about this. It isn't a Dark Zone without lawlessness.

Plus, if you could take all the finite resources and nobody could do anything about it, there'd be no point to have the Dark Zone.

They would need to balance what resources are available as there would be far more players in the PvE DZ. They'd also need to increase the number of servers to cope with the influx.
Maybe they could make the resources available to every player and reduce the amount?

There are lots of ways we could balance the loot available.
Won't know until we try it, will we?


Imagine for a moment people playing a PvE only Dark Zone and the only gameplay is trying to ninjaloot chests and drops from each other. Extraction would be a 100% useless mechanic because there's no risk.

Needless to be said, I don't think you've thought it through. At all.

They could easily replace PvP players with Hunters at extractions. Give the Hunters special abilities as well as healing, etc. Maybe have them randomly spawn during fights. Hell, it sounds like more fun than the current DZ already.

We have thought it through, you just don't want to share your toys. At all :)

CoOp_Gordon
02-14-2019, 12:09 PM
2. No PvE darkzone.


I am an exclusively PvE player and I don't want a PvE DZ. As long as PvE players can access all the loot and the good stuff is not locked in the DZ I am happy. Thanks to Merphee and the other contributors to his D1 megathread there is a lot more to do this time round in the LZ. Just as long as they don't try to force me into the DZ to get the good loot. If they do I just won't buy it.

Migrayne1
02-14-2019, 12:11 PM
Thats called he LZ. Loot chest drops that you can try to get and mobs try to et it also.

You have everything in the LZ that is in the DZ except challanging players.

I still dont get what mysticle thing you think is in the DZ that your missing. Tbe DZ has rogue players thats all thats different. That is the pojnt of the DZ. Feel free to go their and see for yourself.

BrighTasKnighT_
02-14-2019, 12:17 PM
2. No PvE darkzone.
.

Its Called DarkZone i am PVP player and i am so happy in Division 1 people can run from rouges agents and get chance to skip but this time small DZ and find easy other agents

Millenium_Exile
02-14-2019, 12:40 PM
They would need to balance what resources are available as there would be far more players in the PvE DZ. They'd also need to increase the number of servers to cope with the influx.
Maybe they could make the resources available to every player and reduce the amount?

There are lots of ways we could balance the loot available.
Won't know until we try it, will we?



They could easily replace PvP players with Hunters at extractions. Give the Hunters special abilities as well as healing, etc. Maybe have them randomly spawn during fights. Hell, it sounds like more fun than the current DZ already.

We have thought it through, you just don't want to share your toys. At all :)

I have had plenty of pve players in survival and resistance complain that the hunters are to hard and freak out that they can be executed by the hunter so they can't be picked up by there team.

Millenium_Exile
02-14-2019, 12:46 PM
Its Called DarkZone i am PVP player and i am so happy in Division 1 people can run from rouges agents and get chance to skip but this time small DZ and find easy other agents

Part of the fun was the chase I am a solo dz runner and it was always an awsome feeling out smarting the rouge group that was doging me. Or holding them off at the extraction long enough to get my loot out. Or even helping to save a random player fighting them off.

electricbil2019
02-14-2019, 01:26 PM
I have had plenty of pve players in survival and resistance complain that the hunters are to hard and freak out that they can be executed by the hunter so they can't be picked up by there team.

So, you're saying we shouldn't try it because some people won't like it?
The constant complaints have already shown that. But, again, we'll never know if we don't try it.

Why not give us a BETA and try different PVE options in each DZ?
That way we can try them and see if they work :)

III_Hammer_III
02-14-2019, 01:40 PM
So, you're saying we shouldn't try it because some people won't like it?
The constant complaints have already shown that. But, again, we'll never know if we don't try it.

Why not give us a BETA and try different PVE options in each DZ?
That way we can try them and see if they work :)

Same thing over and over again.

Simple concept: there is no dark zone without player conflict. That is the LZ. You can find the same things do,and many more things to do in the LZ than the DZ.

Without PvP, you simply have a small LZ with much less to do than the regular LZ.

Again, you can't experience the roller coaster by merely sitting in the roller coaster car.

FinNapalm
02-14-2019, 01:45 PM
The DaaaaaakZoooone....

It is under your bed when you are not looking....
It is other side of mirror when you see reflection..

The DaaaaakZoooone is out to GET YOU!!!

SevenNVD
02-14-2019, 02:09 PM
There are lots of ways we could balance the loot available.
Won't know until we try it, will we?



We are trying it. The LZ got a complete overhaul to cater to our free roam PvE wishes.

They are stuffing it right under your nose and you are denying to even look at it or try it. All you are saying to the developers hard work is: " no, I don't want everything I asked for, I want everything they have to not exist anymore!"

It's rather selfish if you ask me.

Cadillac-Jack
02-14-2019, 02:21 PM
I hear the calling for a P v E DZ one more time I'm going to pull out what little hair I have left.

Jesus Christ the LZ/Light Zone has everything the Dark zone has and more bar 2 things (Rogues ergo P v P) and (loot Extractions something that's not needed in the new LZ)

The LZ has

Control points ergo Landmarks
Main missions
Side missions
Random spawned activities
Static activities
Loot by the bucket load and that includes the level 30 and it's HE/Purple loot
Settlements with missions
Roaming NPC's
Named bosses by the bucket load (that drop high end gear/weapons)
Vendors that sell gear/weapons (including a reported roaming vendor)
Underground something we had to pay for in TD1
A huge map
I think that list is long enough for P v E players to be getting on with for now, and i'm a P v E only player.

Dr.Jonis101
02-14-2019, 02:31 PM
1. Too long cooldowns on skills.
2. No PvE darkzone.
3. Endless enemy spawn in boss fights.
4. Playable area is too small for a sequel.

I have a feeling that you PVE DZ-wanters haven't actually thought of how that system would work.

Firstly, PVE only completely breaks the model. You have finite resources in the DZ that people loot. If you can't stop people, all you do is end up running around ninjalooting. Rogue mechanics and picking chests wouldn't work either. Extraction would be a completely useless mechanic. Don't tell me you consider the 2 mobs that spawn as difficult competition.

Secondly, It isn't a Dark Zone if it isn't lawless. Doesn't fit in the lore or anything of the sort.

In short, they'd have to redesign the entire system just for you. Won't work and you're not getting it. Don't go to the DZ if you don't want to PvP.

Solidus...
02-14-2019, 02:32 PM
Simple concept: there is no dark zone without player conflict.
Without PvP, you simply have a small LZ with much less to do than the regular LZ.


Answer is simple they dont give a f*** about DZ concept. Behind "most fun PVE in DZ" hides repetitive, easy, fast progression runs from landmark to landmark. But when all items are also available in LZ moans about "most fun PVE in DZ" stops but if drop rate is not enough huge, moans about "most fun PVE in DZ" resume.


They don't want that pvp players progress faster than pve. They don't give a f*** that those pvp players are in same boat kill each other and rob each other, they believe that all pvp players act together as one gang following same religion kill and rob only pve farmers. PVE guys still want equal progression speed as pvp players only with out risk.

Eirihein
02-14-2019, 02:33 PM
I hear the calling for a P v E DZ one more time I'm going to pull out what little hair I have left.

Jesus Christ the LZ/Light Zone has everything the Dark zone has and more bar 2 things (Rogues ergo P v P) and (loot Extractions something that's not needed in the new LZ)

The LZ has

Control points ergo Landmarks
Main missions
Side missions
Random spawned activities
Static activities
Loot by the bucket load and that includes the level 30 and it's HE/Purple loot
Settlements with missions
Roaming NPC's
Named bosses by the bucket load (that drop high end gear/weapons)
Vendors that sell gear/weapons (including a reported roaming vendor)
Underground something we had to pay for in TD1
A huge map
I think that list is long enough for P v E players to be getting on with for now, and i'm a P v E only player.

Dude, relax, there is nothing we can explain the LDZ requester... They don't want to listen... they.... just want.... our precious... (sad Gollum face)

Cadillac-Jack
02-14-2019, 03:02 PM
Dude, relax, there is nothing we can explain the LDZ requester... They don't want to listen... they.... just want.... our precious... (sad Gollum face)

The irony is I used to be a P v E DZ requester, the reason iv'e stopped requesting is because of the new improved LZ and all it has, even so (I don't and won't ever go in the Dark zone) it's not my thing.

electricbil2019
02-14-2019, 03:08 PM
I have a feeling that you PVE DZ-wanters haven't actually thought of how that system would work.

Firstly, PVE only completely breaks the model. You have finite resources in the DZ that people loot. If you can't stop people, all you do is end up running around ninjalooting. Rogue mechanics and picking chests wouldn't work either. Extraction would be a completely useless mechanic. Don't tell me you consider the 2 mobs that spawn as difficult competition.

Secondly, It isn't a Dark Zone if it isn't lawless. Doesn't fit in the lore or anything of the sort.

In short, they'd have to redesign the entire system just for you. Won't work and you're not getting it. Don't go to the DZ if you don't want to PvP.

We have thought it through, but it would need balancing. Obviously.

Firstly, it doesn't break the model. The game mechanics work the same if you have Hunters in place of rogues. Not much changes.

Secondly, the lore fits whatever we want it to fit. It's a Dark Zone because we say it is. You can call it whatever you want. You can call it a Hunter Zone and everyone will understand what it is.

In short: All of the systems are in place, you just need to replace rogues with Hunters and we're ready to go :)

gt2k
02-14-2019, 03:13 PM
I hear the calling for a P v E DZ one more time I'm going to pull out what little hair I have left.

Jesus Christ the LZ/Light Zone has everything the Dark zone has and more bar 2 things (Rogues ergo P v P) and (loot Extractions something that's not needed in the new LZ)

The LZ has

Control points ergo Landmarks
Main missions
Side missions
Random spawned activities
Static activities
Loot by the bucket load and that includes the level 30 and it's HE/Purple loot
Settlements with missions
Roaming NPC's
Named bosses by the bucket load (that drop high end gear/weapons)
Vendors that sell gear/weapons (including a reported roaming vendor)
Underground something we had to pay for in TD1
A huge map
I think that list is long enough for P v E players to be getting on with for now, and i'm a P v E only player.

I don't understand it. The original idea for the PVE DZ was because there was nothing in the LZ and it was the easiest thing to change. Now the LZ has a lot and all they ask for is a DZ with hunters? At least people should come up with something better than that.

SevenNVD
02-14-2019, 03:32 PM
We have thought it through, but it would need balancing. Obviously.


This contradicts:



In short: All of the systems are in place, you just need to replace rogues with Hunters and we're ready to go :)

They have rebalanced the whole game, took all the good things from the darkzone and put it in the light zone. There is no "ready to go" needed, we already are ready to go.

ohCaptmyCaptain
02-14-2019, 03:50 PM
They would need to balance what resources are available as there would be far more players in the PvE DZ. They'd also need to increase the number of servers to cope with the influx.
Maybe they could make the resources available to every player and reduce the amount?

There are lots of ways we could balance the loot available.
Won't know until we try it, will we?



They could easily replace PvP players with Hunters at extractions. Give the Hunters special abilities as well as healing, etc. Maybe have them randomly spawn during fights. Hell, it sounds like more fun than the current DZ already.

We have thought it through, you just don't want to share your toys. At all :)

Hmmmm....... sounds like you already have that. It's called SURVIVAL. But I bet you don't play that do you?

electricbil2019
02-14-2019, 03:53 PM
This contradicts:

If you invent a set of scales, they would still need to be balanced if you made them. A PvE DZ cannot be balanced without making it first, so there is no contradiction.


They have rebalanced the whole game, took all the good things from the darkzone and put it in the light zone. There is no "ready to go" needed, we already are ready to go.

Then what is all the complaining about? If we're ready to go then let's get the PvE DZ up and running :)

vvhorus
02-14-2019, 03:54 PM
We have thought it through, but it would need balancing. Obviously.

Firstly, it doesn't break the model. The game mechanics work the same if you have Hunters in place of rogues. Not much changes.

Secondly, the lore fits whatever we want it to fit. It's a Dark Zone because we say it is. You can call it whatever you want. You can call it a Hunter Zone and everyone will understand what it is.

In short: All of the systems are in place, you just need to replace rogues with Hunters and we're ready to go :)

I'm quite convinced that if it ever happens, Massive execs will scratch their heads and ask themselves why the F didn't they do it before...

electricbil2019
02-14-2019, 03:54 PM
Hmmmm....... sounds like you already have that. IN SURVIVAL. But I bet you don't play that do you?

We're talking about the Division 2. I cannot play what doesn't exist :)

ohCaptmyCaptain
02-14-2019, 04:15 PM
We're talking about the Division 2. I cannot play what doesn't exist :)

Talking to you is like talking to a child. Throughout this entire thread there are multiple examples of how the LZ has everything the DZ has except for rogue players. You say let's just replace rogues with hunters. My argument is that there are already hunters who will fight you at extractions in survival mode, which can be either PVP or PVE at your discretion. If the devs don't bring survival back to the game I will amazed as it was a highly successful game mode. You want a PVE only DZ with hunters instead of rogues? Fine, ask the devs to sprinkle hunters around the LZ as random events to guard loot boxes and random buildings so you never know when one will appear and keep the number that show up correlated with the size of your squad. Leave the DZ alone.

Don't like the DZ as it currently is, stay out of it. It's the one thing that is completely unique about this game.

SevenNVD
02-14-2019, 04:24 PM
Then what is all the complaining about?

Don't try and reverse it, sir, you are the one complaining that what is offered us isn't enough.

You are just trolling. I always suspected it off you, but in other topics you can be very reasonable, and fun to have discussions with. But as soon as it's about a PvE darkzone, you have no reasonable arguments and you are just trying to push everyone's buttons. It's pretty sad, especially since I've already seen an other side of you.

Cadillac-Jack
02-14-2019, 04:52 PM
To those who want a P v E DZ

Why isn't this list of LZ activities enough, it's 5 x as much as you'll ever get in a P v E Dark Zone

The LZ

Control points ergo Landmarks
Main missions
Side missions
Random spawned activities
Static activities
Loot by the bucket load and that includes the level 30 and it's HE/Purple loot
Settlements with missions
Roaming NPC's
Named bosses by the bucket load (that drop high end gear/weapons)
Vendors that sell gear/weapons (including a reported roaming vendor)
Underground something we had to pay for in TD1
A huge map

The Dark zone in comparison

Named bosses
Landmarks
small maps
purple/yellow loot

Merphee
02-14-2019, 05:05 PM
No point in trying to talk to brick walls anymore, Jack, Seven. No matter how many facts you bring them, they will voluntarily ignore them.

There's just too much willful ignorance.

Eirihein
02-14-2019, 05:11 PM
how event did the topic of mob spawning and skill speed go down to the DZ again? are there so many "not good people" who want to ruin the concept of the DZ and they just spam in every post?

Solidus...
02-14-2019, 05:14 PM
Don't like the DZ as it currently is, stay out of it. It's the one thing that is completely unique about this game.


DZ is already ruined and anyone who i ask with who i played, or just in discord, will not buy this game. Devs can simply remove pvp at all and leave it for pve cuz devs already lost huge part of pvp players as customers.

Raimsurion
02-14-2019, 05:17 PM
1. There are mods on equipment that lower skill cooldown. There are mods on the skills THEMSELVES that lower skill cooldown. There are traits on weapons that reduce/prolong skill duration. You are playing a beta with little to none of these.
2. Theres enough. Its not meant to be a PvE zone.
3. Would be too easy if you cleared the adds out and only the boss was left to be constantly flanked by 2 people. Why can't bosses call in backup? We can.
4. The playable area is larger than Division 1 according to some Youtubers who mathed it out.

Millenium_Exile
02-14-2019, 09:57 PM
I'm not a pve or a pvp player I'm both I liked going in the DZ and avoiding rogues and getting my loot out or hunting rogue players. The DIV1 did lack in LZ after game but not in DIV2.
If anything needed to be changed/added it's more content for the DZ it would be interesting if the DZ had even half of what's in the Div2's LZ.
Pve only player's are just spoiled.
They ruined Div1's DZ and now there well on there way with Div2.

teksuo1
02-14-2019, 10:18 PM
well you need decently long cooldowns for the stat "cooldown reduction" to have any value.
get some cooldown reduction and i bet it'll feel better!

your other points are like, whatever man ;)


tbh as long as they do an half way decent job with keeping cheaters at bay and tweaking longevity over time, i'm happy.

STYGIAN-6
02-15-2019, 12:00 AM
That is an entirely opinionated statement.

1. Are the skill cooldowns to long? Did you acquire mods and gear to affect skill cooldowns or did you just run with the garbage builds that were handed to you?

2. There is no need for a PvE Dark Zone. The LZ PvE, You have Control Points, Random Encounters: Hostage, Weapon, Propaganda, Supply Drop, and probably a lot more we have not seen, You have Rare Spawn Bosses, Random Pawn Bosses, and Bounties. There is litterally a Loot Box around every corner, You have Missions, and Raids, and oh btw you can come back to Control Points and Loot Box locations every few hours to reloot them. The issue in D1 was that loot could be obtained faster by steam rolling land marks in the DZ than it could be done by spead running an entire mission. This is not the case in D2. D2 Light zone has more loot oportunities and quicker loot gains than the DZ this time around.

3. There is no Horde Mode in any of the missions, yes as you increase the difficulty some missions have added waves, but they are not endless.

4. The Beta didn't even let you past 1/8 of the map, and each DLC this year is suppose to expand the playable area. It is in fact larger than the D1 map. So I am confused as how you came up with that one.

I am sorry but it just seems your jumping on the negativity train and didn't really test in Alpha or Private Beta and if you did didn't take the time to engage in all the LZ activities, didn't explore the LZ, didn't take the time to gather lvl 30 gear by running the lvl 30 mission and look at more equipment and mods that they game could offer and how they could impact character builds.

Millenium_Exile
02-15-2019, 02:27 AM
That is an entirely opinionated statement.

1. Are the skill cooldowns to long? Did you acquire mods and gear to affect skill cooldowns or did you just run with the garbage builds that were handed to you?

2. There is no need for a PvE Dark Zone. The LZ PvE, You have Control Points, Random Encounters: Hostage, Weapon, Propaganda, Supply Drop, and probably a lot more we have not seen, You have Rare Spawn Bosses, Random Pawn Bosses, and Bounties. There is litterally a Loot Box around every corner, You have Missions, and Raids, and oh btw you can come back to Control Points and Loot Box locations every few hours to reloot them. The issue in D1 was that loot could be obtained faster by steam rolling land marks in the DZ than it could be done by spead running an entire mission. This is not the case in D2. D2 Light zone has more loot oportunities and quicker loot gains than the DZ this time around.

3. There is no Horde Mode in any of the missions, yes as you increase the difficulty some missions have added waves, but they are not endless.

4. The Beta didn't even let you past 1/8 of the map, and each DLC this year is suppose to expand the playable area. It is in fact larger than the D1 map. So I am confused as how you came up with that one.

I am sorry but it just seems your jumping on the negativity train and didn't really test in Alpha or Private Beta and if you did didn't take the time to engage in all the LZ activities, didn't explore the LZ, didn't take the time to gather lvl 30 gear by running the lvl 30 mission and look at more equipment and mods that they game could offer and how they could impact character builds.

👏👏👏👏

Ubi-Lucipus
02-15-2019, 02:50 PM
I've redirected this to our suggestions and feedback thread so that we can track these insights.

Thank you for sharing guys!

Agent_Penn
02-15-2019, 08:48 PM
HERO'S RIGHT HERE.
Thank you

I was asking for an pve option in TD1 Dark Zone, How ever in TD2 Dark Zones I dont feel the same. It actually felt quite good with how they set up them this time around with the theves den, turrets guarding the entrens and the time to kill that forses the agent more to seek cover now actually hitting the sweet spot nicley, for thouse hardcore pvp:ers there will be the ocupied Dark Zone with everything they want and this even move from Dark Zone to Dark Zone so every one gets to enter all of them. I think that is the best solution they cracked ever it is brilliant and I love it :)

jrista1979
02-15-2019, 10:35 PM
As a mostly PvE player who does some PvP, the DZ needs to remain a PvEvP zone. That is the entire point. The WHOLE POINT of the DZ is to have that mix, to have that uncertainty about other players, to have the risk vs. reward, etc. To make a PvE DZ means it is no longer a DZ...just another LZ. As others have pointed out, the LZ is PACKED with stuff now, content wise, both gameplay and loot. And you don't have to extract any of it, you don't have to risk any of it. What more could you ask for?

The DZ in TD1 was perfect, IMO. Every so often some twit with ludicrous gear would camp an extract zone or checkpoint, and just grief people. Only thing I didn't like about the PvP there. Overall, though, that is pretty rare, and PvPers don't usually camp anything or grief people, they PvP. I love the TD1 DZ, and I mostly am in there doing PvE stuff. Without the Rogues and the Risk, it just isn't the same. Hunters would never be the same.

The DZ in TD2 definitely has its flaws though. Felt WAAAY too small to me. Either for PvP or PvE. There was nowhere near enough content. I rarely found good loot chests, they were very scarce. NPCs only seemed to exist at the landmarks, and patrols were extremely scant. With mostly PvEers, it was a constant race to get to the next LM before the named was gone, and with a full server the LMs drop so fast that everyone (usually no one in a group) just runs in a circle chasing the next refreshed LM. With 12 players all chasing exactly the same thing, NPCs dropped so fast it was just hit or miss whether you got any drops, got the chests.

With PvP, it was usually just a chaotic free-for-all more like a fast paced deathmatch than anything like the TD1 DZ. Either that or it was one group of 4 highly skilled Rogues ripping through everyone else on a continual basis. There was no room to get away, and you either camped at the spawn points behind the safety of the guns (which from a PvP perspective were also ludicrously overpowered, they could apparently shoot rogues half way across the map and through walls, trucks, etc.), or died repeatedly with absolutely no reward because the only thing to do and only place to go was the LMs, which is where everyone always was. If you had any contaminated items, the Rogues just farmed em off you. The whole thing felt ridiculous and wasn't really fun, mostly because the zone was so darn small and cramped.

PvP conflicts usually didn't last long, as even though TD2 is a cover-based combat came, the good Rogues already figured out how to exploit PC squishiness and they hardly ever used cover. Mostly just to move behind (but not actually ENTER cover) to block bullets, otherwise they were still right there in your face all the time (and half still seemed to be getting as close to chicken dance as they could, despite the movement nerf.)

The DZ certainly needs work, but there also doesn't need to be a PvE only one. It just needs to be larger, and to be more balanced. With TD1, I think part of what made it great, and part of what helped with the tension is, it was large enough that encounters with other PCs were moderately scarce, but small enough that you KNEW you WERE going to run into someone, and you were pretty sure if was going to be around that next corner. The balance there, space wise, was perfect, and what helped give the dark zone it's risky, tense atmosphere. The DZ in TD2 is a wildly different place...

Millenium_Exile
02-16-2019, 03:17 AM
As a mostly PvE player who does some PvP, the DZ needs to remain a PvEvP zone. That is the entire point. The WHOLE POINT of the DZ is to have that mix, to have that uncertainty about other players, to have the risk vs. reward, etc. To make a PvE DZ means it is no longer a DZ...just another LZ. As others have pointed out, the LZ is PACKED with stuff now, content wise, both gameplay and loot. And you don't have to extract any of it, you don't have to risk any of it. What more could you ask for?

The DZ in TD1 was perfect, IMO. Every so often some twit with ludicrous gear would camp an extract zone or checkpoint, and just grief people. Only thing I didn't like about the PvP there. Overall, though, that is pretty rare, and PvPers don't usually camp anything or grief people, they PvP. I love the TD1 DZ, and I mostly am in there doing PvE stuff. Without the Rogues and the Risk, it just isn't the same. Hunters would never be the same.

The DZ in TD2 definitely has its flaws though. Felt WAAAY too small to me. Either for PvP or PvE. There was nowhere near enough content. I rarely found good loot chests, they were very scarce. NPCs only seemed to exist at the landmarks, and patrols were extremely scant. With mostly PvEers, it was a constant race to get to the next LM before the named was gone, and with a full server the LMs drop so fast that everyone (usually no one in a group) just runs in a circle chasing the next refreshed LM. With 12 players all chasing exactly the same thing, NPCs dropped so fast it was just hit or miss whether you got any drops, got the chests.

With PvP, it was usually just a chaotic free-for-all more like a fast paced deathmatch than anything like the TD1 DZ. Either that or it was one group of 4 highly skilled Rogues ripping through everyone else on a continual basis. There was no room to get away, and you either camped at the spawn points behind the safety of the guns (which from a PvP perspective were also ludicrously overpowered, they could apparently shoot rogues half way across the map and through walls, trucks, etc.), or died repeatedly with absolutely no reward because the only thing to do and only place to go was the LMs, which is where everyone always was. If you had any contaminated items, the Rogues just farmed em off you. The whole thing felt ridiculous and wasn't really fun, mostly because the zone was so darn small and cramped.

PvP conflicts usually didn't last long, as even though TD2 is a cover-based combat came, the good Rogues already figured out how to exploit PC squishiness and they hardly ever used cover. Mostly just to move behind (but not actually ENTER cover) to block bullets, otherwise they were still right there in your face all the time (and half still seemed to be getting as close to chicken dance as they could, despite the movement nerf.)

The DZ certainly needs work, but there also doesn't need to be a PvE only one. It just needs to be larger, and to be more balanced. With TD1, I think part of what made it great, and part of what helped with the tension is, it was large enough that encounters with other PCs were moderately scarce, but small enough that you KNEW you WERE going to run into someone, and you were pretty sure if was going to be around that next corner. The balance there, space wise, was perfect, and what helped give the dark zone it's risky, tense atmosphere. The DZ in TD2 is a wildly different place...

110% agree with you especially the dz being to small. I seeing some had timed the distance between the two extraction points and it was ridiculously short. Anyone could patrol both and just take everything from other. Need at least 4 extraction points.
If you can't expand the zones out maybe build up have a roof top extraction that you have to climb too so a rouge can't get up the fast kill someone and make it back down to get to the next extraction going on.
I'm not super familiar with DC so I'm not sure if this would work but could an under ground extraction point work? Is there a subway tunnel running through one of the dz's?
Just a thought

Kodie Collings
02-16-2019, 11:28 AM
1. Too long cooldowns on skills.
2. No PvE darkzone.
3. Endless enemy spawn in boss fights.
4. Playable area is too small for a sequel.

1. Long cooldowns mean you need to use them more sparingly or stack cooldown reduction at end game for skill builds.
2. It's not a PVE Dark Zone. PVP still applies and for a more "hardcore" experience players can go in the occupied DZ.
3. This gives the fight objective under pressure. Like Clear Sky, it requires teamwork and focus fire instead of just killing all mobs then the boss.
4. Map is bigger than New York and is 1:1 scale.

Legoguru2000
02-23-2019, 03:41 PM
The people asking for an OPTIONAL PVE DZ (and I have to emphasize this since so many DZ purists are respond like as if they are asking to change the existing DZ) want one so they can playin the DZ without dealing with the toxic players that tend to plague the DZ. An OPTIONAL PVE DZ would NOT alter the existing experience of the PVPVE DZ at all and would be a win-win for real PVP Players (those seeking engagements only with those who want PVP) and for the PVE players who want to play in the DZ which IS PART OF THE GAME THEY PAID FOR. It also would mean the turrets could be removed from the PVPVE DZ something a lot of PVP players have complained about.

There is 1 group that loses out if an OPTIONAL PVE DZ were available and that's the toxic people that are looking to grief others who don't want to PVO either because they are simply toxic or because they aren't really skilled enough in PVP top deal with others looking for PVP engagements and so they need the easier prey in the DZ of PVE players.

The ONLY possible valid excuse for a PVPVE only DZ is that it goes against the idea of a PVPVE DZ but the reality is that the existing PVPE DZ does not embrace this idea either because if it did then when you went rogue you'd loose all access to anything that is for DIVISION AGNETS such as anything Issacs provides.

For the DZ Purists, you can argue all you want that there is no need for an OPTIONAL PVE DZ but the number of posts asking for this in the forums proves this is not something from a fringe few. Its NOT about activities in the DZ that are not in the LZ (as was the case in D1 but has changed in D2) its about having access to parts of the game world that came with the game that PVE players paid for and without changing the existing DZ for those who like it the way it is. The Survival expansion in D1 provided that an optional PVE DZ is not a technical limitation but one of choice.

Millenium_Exile
02-24-2019, 03:21 AM
Have to disagree on all of that

OGG_3vilZeb
02-24-2019, 09:48 PM
The only way I would ever be happy about a PvE DZ is if the gear level capped at world tier 4. The PvP DZ extracted gear would go to WT5. Otherwise there may as well just be a vendor where you can get everything you want for 1.

OGTKCole
02-25-2019, 12:27 AM
we have thought it through, but it would need balancing. Obviously.

Firstly, it doesn't break the model. The game mechanics work the same if you have hunters in place of rogues. Not much changes.

Secondly, the lore fits whatever we want it to fit. It's a dark zone because we say it is. You can call it whatever you want. You can call it a hunter zone and everyone will understand what it is.

In short: All of the systems are in place, you just need to replace rogues with hunters and we're ready to go :)

your not getting a pve dark zone, when will that sink in??

taiiat
02-25-2019, 09:54 AM
note that, the Terrain in Division 2 is more densely packed. the square footage isn't massively increased, but it doesn't need to be because in any particular region of space, there is a lot more to actually do this time around than there was in the previous title.
so there is less Terrain space that has nothing more than maybe one Squad of random Enemies in it once in a while. instead the Terrain is host to small and large 'events' all stacked kinda on top of each other. which means that stuff will interact with each other more often, feeding into that more chaotic, multifronted style of Combat that Division 2 seems to be going for. less holding a position while mowing down Enemies coming from this one or two doors/hallways, and more of a hectic battlezone to push Players to be more strategic about their moment to moment actions in Combat.