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Elysimo
02-07-2019, 07:02 PM
Played 10 ranked matches now and the only ones I have lost are against black prior. I have versed a rep 7 warden and a rep 16 valkyrie and beat them but I lose to a guy who hasn't even repped up with that character?

Baggin_
02-07-2019, 07:25 PM
Doesn't mean he's op. Just gotta learn how to fighting against him. (Although he does have a bug at the moment).

Anything about him you're struggling with?

Ubiflowessence
02-07-2019, 08:52 PM
As Baggin_ mentioned, Black prior is a fairly new hero and may just need some getting used to, although I've seen around the community about Vortiger's shield bash needing to be looked into for balance changes.

Is that something you seem to be struggling with or finding frustrating with Black Prior or is it something else in particular?

MCBooma16
02-07-2019, 10:47 PM
A lot of BPs I face like their shield bashes. I play Raider, so you can imagine how well that works out for them :p Ye know, with Raider's dodge GB :p 😎

SangLong524
02-08-2019, 05:41 AM
Oh the audacity! Have you played BP yet?
I think people prefer objectivity, rather than “based on my experience, it is so”. BP is new, same as shaman, shinobi, HL, Cent, etc, the Wulin cast were new.
Or u can claim “since alpha”. That’ll work, better than this.
Rep 367 here, that probably tell u i play since a long time ago. I dont think BP is OP at all, except the current light-bash-light is way too much. The rest arent really threatening. UB heavy is a judgement call, you either parry successfully, or misread and get light-bash-light. Currently, dont let yourself enter OOS.

SpaceJim12
02-08-2019, 09:42 AM
As Baggin_ mentioned, Black prior is a fairly new hero and may just need some getting used to, although I've seen around the community about Vortiger's shield bash needing to be looked into for balance changes.

Is that something you seem to be struggling with or finding frustrating with Black Prior or is it something else in particular?

Please, guys, do not touch Black Prior. It's first time when character are a really balanced and ok. Let people get used to his moveset and everything will be fine. I played a whole week on him and BP is pretty good. He need you to be smart and focused. You can't spam bush, cause will be out of stamina in a seconds. Ans bulwark counter is a very hard to use move, so it should be strong.

Tyrjo
02-09-2019, 08:38 AM
It's not the fact that he is a new hero which makes him OP. It's the 500ms 20dmg bash which there is no real punish to.

ArchDukeInstinct
02-09-2019, 08:41 AM
Played 10 ranked matches now and the only ones I have lost are against black prior. I have versed a rep 7 warden and a rep 16 valkyrie and beat them but I lose to a guy who hasn't even repped up with that character?

An absolutely dismal argument.

guest-4xn53EA8
02-09-2019, 08:45 AM
You guys just need to put your shirt together. It's unbelievable how you guys ****ed up

Siegfried-Z
02-09-2019, 09:49 AM
You guys just need to put your shirt together. It's unbelievable how you guys ****ed up

This looks to be a smart one

pretoastedwaffl
02-09-2019, 10:29 AM
I'm rep 30 Warden and around rep 80 overall. From playing ranked and just normal duels playing against vortiger is fun and balanced except for the bash. It's too easy for him to get guaranteed damage from the zone attack and bash. It does feel like playing against a conqueror again and I'd like it if ubisoft could make it punishable when he misses the bash and tone the damage down a little so it doesn't become the only thing bps want to use. 15 would be adequate for a bash attack as it is quite a fast attack. In all fairness tho we are all new to this character so I reckon ubi have done a great job with the reworks and new character just the bash needs a nerf.

ICE_Sc0rpiii
02-10-2019, 09:30 AM
It's not the fact that he is a new hero which makes him OP. It's the 500ms 20dmg bash which there is no real punish to.

I was able to pull of a GB after a missed BP shield bash...i dont think u can do it on reaction u need to read your OP and know he will do it so u can dodge it early and then u are able to pull of a GB i think, atleast that worked out for me a couple of times :D

Psykhozis
02-10-2019, 02:09 PM
vortiger needs a nerf ubi, i don t know if that s the marketing strategy but its not working. his shield bash is op and his oos punish is insane. this needs to be looked at. besides this he also has a generous health pool

pretoastedwaffl
02-10-2019, 04:02 PM
Yup that sums up it well. Once again this game has another op edition of spam

LostDarknight
02-10-2019, 07:51 PM
If i lost first round with him the second 2 will be the same.So if my opponents is ****iger i stand there and say...enjoy

Han-Singular
02-10-2019, 08:18 PM
As Baggin_ mentioned, Black prior is a fairly new hero and may just need some getting used to, although I've seen around the community about Vortiger's shield bash needing to be looked into for balance changes.

Is that something you seem to be struggling with or finding frustrating with Black Prior or is it something else in particular?

It's not the Community that thinks Black Prior shield bash needs to be looked into. The Devs put in the Patch notes that there is an issue with Black Priors bash.

What I want to know is why are they allowing this unintended feature to still be in the game? Why did they not Hot-fix it out right away. They are allowing there #s to be skewed by this unintended feature.

When they allowed Tiandi to be tested by players, we found the same kind of unintended feature and it was removed before he was released to the public. So why not Black Prior?

Han-Singular
02-10-2019, 08:38 PM
I'm rep 30 Warden and around rep 80 overall. From playing ranked and just normal duels playing against vortiger is fun and balanced except for the bash. It's too easy for him to get guaranteed damage from the zone attack and bash. It does feel like playing against a conqueror again and I'd like it if ubisoft could make it punishable when he misses the bash and tone the damage down a little so it doesn't become the only thing bps want to use. 15 would be adequate for a bash attack as it is quite a fast attack. In all fairness tho we are all new to this character so I reckon ubi have done a great job with the reworks and new character just the bash needs a nerf.

The Dmg can stay the same imo, just make the bash recovery a little longer to make punishing it more consistent.

Vakris_One
02-10-2019, 08:51 PM
It's not the Community that thinks Black Prior shield bash needs to be looked into. The Devs put in the Patch notes that there is an issue with Black Priors bash.

What I want to know is why are they allowing this unintended feature to still be in the game? Why did they not Hot-fix it out right away. They are allowing there #s to be skewed by this unintended feature.

When they allowed Tiandi to be tested by players, we found the same kind of unintended feature and it was removed before he was released to the public. So why not Black Prior?
Because they didn't allow Black Prior to be tested by players first. It's a shame they don't utilise their public test servers more often, especially with testing new heroes and reworks.

MuscleTech12018
02-10-2019, 09:20 PM
I doubt they will ever know how to balance this game. They simply lack the professionalism required for good devs. It's widely known in the industry that Canadian developers are not quite smart....

CanadianSoupMan
02-10-2019, 10:51 PM
I am gonna post this here so it can be seen on a more active post. Basically the inane thinking behind the new character.

Let us compare Vortiger to Warlord who was just nerfed for some reason.

Warlord:
- lost his guaranteed light after Headbutt, and lost his guaranteed Headbutt after jump heavy
- had 100ms added onto his light and Headbutt
- had 200ms added onto the activation fo his sprinting X
- Damage of jump heavy switched form heavy damage to light damage

Added Vortiger:
- Zone, an opener that guarantees a light
- Heavy soft feint with X, Magnetic shield bash that guarantees a light.
- FWD+A to X, Shield bash that guarantees a light
- Light attack, if not blocked can guarantee a bash even if you dodged which then guarantees a light
- All above mentioned mentioned attacks will take 20 stamina from the opponent on the shield bash (25 on the zone) and 20 health from the light

Lets look at the moves super closely. The damage an costs are listed "[AFFECT ON ENEMY] - [AFFECT ON YOU]"

Warlord:

Side heavy = 35 - 12 stm
Top heavy = 30 - 12 stm
Side Light = 13 dmg- 6 stm
Top Light = 17 dmg - 6 stm
Headbutt Light = 12dmg - 6 stm
Headbutt = 20stm - 15stm

Vortiger:

Side heavy = 30 - 12 stm
Top heavy = 35 - 12 stm
Unblock-able Heavy = 30 - 12 stm
Magnetic Heavy (Heavy after light or zone) = 40 dmg - 12stm
All Neutral Lights= 15 dmg- 6 stm
Light after Shield bash = 20 dmg - 6stm
Heavy X soft feint = 20 stm - 36stm
FWD+A Bash = 20stm, 15stm

Yes I missed a couple moves but the damage and stamina on them fits the average here. Basically under no circumstance can warlord do 40 damage however Vortiger can very easily and its even magnetic.

Unlike Warlord; Vortiger is faster with sprinting and with any move, has more kit/variety, an unblock-able heavy, gets guaranteed lights after any opener, and WAY better omni stance and punish, has attacks broad magnetic attacks that completely interrupt side swipes despite being launched first, and you can even punish up to 4 people with it and hit them all for 30 damage guaranteed where Warlords omni punish is now parry-able in almost every circumstance.

Suggest solution?

For real why was warlord nerfed and not someone like Jiang Jun? Warlord was like playing with a cardboard box from amazon and now he is a paper envelope filled with rocks.

His nerfs should be undone and he should get an unblock-able or a deflect.

For Vortiger here are some suggestions (Pick and Choose points):
- Take away the magnetism of the chain heavy and reduce the damage of said heavy to 35
- Take away the magnetism from his zone considering his Heavy X Feint already has it and makes more sense
- Change his zone to something like valkyries instead of just a shield bash
- Don't allow him to flip more than one person at once.
- Don't allow the flip on side swipes (it makes absolutely no sense especially on non magnetic ones like Shaolin)
- Don't allow flip on unblock-able: shoves, kicks, punches, headbutts, leg sweeps. But instead things like Shugokis embrace, Warlords sprinting X, Lawbringers spear charge, Shamans charge, etc. Things where the enemy has lots of momentum and is more open.
- And for the love of god take away his oath breaker or add it to at least 6 other characters preferably heavies.

One way or another he is gonna get nerfed. The Wu-Lin were nowhere near as OP as Vortiger and the Shugoki Rework are. It has been over a week since release, I have multiple reps on every character including Vortiger, and he is dead broken and so is Shugoki. It has impacted the results of matchmaking so badly I have started to lose most of my matches because everyone just plays Vortiger and SB and light spams.

Vakris_One
02-11-2019, 01:59 PM
I doubt they will ever know how to balance this game. They simply lack the professionalism required for good devs. It's widely known in the industry that Canadian developers are not quite smart....
Nice bigotry there. Much class.

You're also talking absolute bull feaces about an industry you don't even work in. Good job on displaying a full spectrum of ignorance.

pretoastedwaffl
02-11-2019, 04:41 PM
No one asked for a second conqueror. Nerf the bash ubi and this hero is balanced

Tobias96716
02-11-2019, 04:53 PM
Everytime a new hero is released people start screaming "its op and needs to be nerfed" without even trying to learn how to defend against it...then they get a uneeded nerf and become crap until its their turn for a revamp....stop this....learn to fight against it...and you will see that he isnt all that great...maybe a upper mid teir hero...and thats a HUGE maybe...

Goat_of_Vermund
02-11-2019, 04:57 PM
Well, his only great problems are either bugs, or just small things like having a too fast recovery. The bash having conq forward bash level recovery would solve basically everything, he is fair beside that.

pretoastedwaffl
02-11-2019, 06:29 PM
I've played the game long enough to know how good a hero is and that usually ubi always rework/release a new hero that ends up being op

SlayerOfSluts
02-11-2019, 08:06 PM
his feat is ****ing op.
Lets gank this guy 4vs1 and take his revenge shield down.

Seems legit!
Making the whole mechanic behind revenge obsolete! Ridicilous, what ubi have done here

Han-Singular
02-11-2019, 08:49 PM
Because they didn't allow Black Prior to be tested by players first. It's a shame they don't utilise their public test servers more often, especially with testing new heroes and reworks.

that may be so but they found it on their own before he was released and still did nothing about it.

Vakris_One
02-11-2019, 11:33 PM
that may be so but they found it on their own before he was released and still did nothing about it.
Technically they only found the bug because they let a handful of Youtubers/Streamers have first crack at the Vortiger in private test servers just 3 days or so before release. It was the Youtubers/Streamers that first discovered and flagged the bug but by that time it was too close to release for the devs to patch it.

Han-Singular
02-12-2019, 12:47 AM
Technically they only found the bug because they let a handful of Youtubers/Streamers have first crack at the Vortiger in private test servers just 3 days or so before release. It was the Youtubers/Streamers that first discovered and flagged the bug but by that time it was too close to release for the devs to patch it.

So it was tested by players....

My point is, they could have easily hot-fixed it out. instead they left it in and allowed Year pass owners to cheese people that didn't know it was a thing. Thus leading to a lot of unnecessary "Black Prior is OP" threads.

Personally I don't think BP is OP, but I do feel they should have done something since they knew about it.

Vakris_One
02-12-2019, 02:49 PM
So it was tested by players....

My point is, they could have easily hot-fixed it out. instead they left it in and allowed Year pass owners to cheese people that didn't know it was a thing. Thus leading to a lot of unnecessary "Black Prior is OP" threads.

Personally I don't think BP is OP, but I do feel they should have done something since they knew about it.
I'm not sure how easy it is to hot fix as I don't know what their code looks like. The last time this type of bug happened was with Tiandi. They fixed that but they had a whole month between finding the bug and the release of Marching Fire to do so.

I just don't have enough info on what they have to work with in order to ascertain how long it should take them to fix this type of bug.

Soldier_of_Dawn
02-12-2019, 06:28 PM
As Baggin_ mentioned, Black prior is a fairly new hero and may just need some getting used to, although I've seen around the community about Vortiger's shield bash needing to be looked into for balance changes.

Is that something you seem to be struggling with or finding frustrating with Black Prior or is it something else in particular?

It is true that we are getting used to him and there is a bug that needs to be fixed but the initial suggestion is to make the light attack after the chained bash no longer guaranteed. The Warlord had a similar nerf with his Leaping Headsplitter Combo where the headbutt is no longer guaranteed. Tenebris Rising from neutral and Hawk's Charge guaranteeing a light attack is enough.