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View Full Version : Shugoki in 4on4's (PS4)



Herbstlicht
02-03-2019, 12:44 PM
First of all: this is not a "nerf-him"-thread and I want to state clearly that I do not thing Shugoki is broken on a 1on1 perspective. However, I do see problems in 4on4's.

I kinda wonder why no one is talking about this. Maybe, on PC its even worse with people playing BP only? Ah well, I dunno. Anyway, right now I will be talking a little bit about what feels the new "standart unfun meta". A great many games one is up against some Priors and Shugokis. Thing is, where you can rather easily deal with a BP (not saying he is weak), its gets way, way worse with Shugoki. Many would say: why, you can react to and really punish him for his mixupgame! Yes, this is totally right.
Thing however is, I often play premade and our group got rather solid. Thus, we regularely play against rather solid players as well (more often then not premades as well). And one of the newest trends is to get at least 2 Shugoki in for some ... say rather simple play. One is a focus target, but thanks to hyperarmor, you can easily trade and use light into headbut with the other Shugoki just alternating between unblockable and grab. Due to a lot of hyperarmor and changing target during chargeup, this works great for Shugoki, even if you try to pressure him he more often then not gets to land a target switched unblockable heavy or grab on your teammate. Thus, vs a coordinated group, this teammate more often then not is likely to die.
Further more, "old" working strategies, like having your stronger players take on 2 at once has become incredible hard to do as well - simply due to stated reasons. And it doesnt even matter if you focus the Shugoki or another hero, because if he is the focus or the external target, he just needs to slightly adapt his playstyle. Though I would say as external attacker, he is more dangerous then locked on. So, in my opinion, Shugoki olus anyone kinda negates staying alive and endure-play.

So, what in the end, like, to me more concrete, do I deem the biggest problem?
Well, in my opinion, its his grab. Due to his new mixup game, you pretty much have to decide for a 50/50, especially true with other attacks coming in, hitstuns etc. - but you are "not allowed" to get grabbed, because the damage that comes out of this is insane. Thing is, revenge was designed to help you fight in those situation. However, revenge does not active when you are grabbed. However, if you would be able to use revenge even when in CC and immediately broke free, the mindless spam would stop.
Lets compare to Tiandi. His punch - and especially his kick - do feed TONS of revenge. He has no unblockable attack, so to get damage in or assist team mates to get damage in, he may use his punch. However, the opponent can pretty freely use revenge, as its the same with the most bashes. You stay in control, even with half hp, normally it is unlikely that one extra hit is going to kill you. Shugis hug however is different, depending on the one fighting with him, it is a death sentence.
So what I would love to see, would not be a nerf to Shugoki. It would be a change to revenge so that you can now pop it whenever you so desire pretty much. If people deem it too much, then make it build up slower. I think revenge should just be what is is: a tool to help you fight multiple targets. And even if you can't overwhelm them, at least you should be able to hold out somewhat longer. However, it just does not work when you're revenge is ready but you have to wait until you stand up again, while being beaten on with well timed heavies ...

Anyway, maybe that is not an issue on PC. Or its only an issue in higher levels of play? Like, I really don't know. Its pretty much my experience. Besides, I might not yet have really adapted to the new animations and at some point dealing with the mixup as a whole won't be an issue. But, at least right now, If you are up against a stronger team, you kinda have to play the same way. It works. But .. well, no one likes to be forced into specific roles because some team setups simply are no longer viable.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
02-03-2019, 01:19 PM
Maybe they should just reduce the damage on unlock tech. I've seen other heros use it very well like raider and Berzerker.
Shugoki's hug just needs timing too get use to. If he ducks his head low it means he is going for a hug. If you wait for the indicator it's already too late. If you dodge early it's already too late. Or you can watch the stamina burn.
Changing the revenge is an interesting proposal. I don't think people would go for it though as many don't like it threatening their game play all the time. There have been calls on the forum for revenge to automatically pop.
The system for match making is being reset currently and gathering info on your ability. So your going to have games were you rekt the team and others where you get rekt. Once it's done you should be closer to equal footing with other players and than it will be easier to judge the new BP and shugokis rework.