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View Full Version : Does Black Prior make Conq and Warlord obsolete?



General_Blarg
02-02-2019, 06:27 PM
Conq main here returning to the game after a long down time.

Black Prior love the guys idea, his weapon, the Dante's inferno like design
But if Im honest I laughed him off, "if you wanted a powerful shield heavy play Conq" me with my little experience.
several matches later of eating my words with a salt martini and I came to a terrifying realization.
He might be the best shield bearing heavy in the game with some of the better quirks of the other two and none of the down sides.
He combo's better than warlord and (seem) faster than Conq's
He has an unblockable heavy from bulwark that doesn't require a successful block to do unlike flail uppercut.
THAT FULL COUNTER THO
He got abit more versatility than the other two.
Im not gonna call him op but goodness, I feel like Im out of a job here with just how good he does his.
Could just be new character envy but who knows. Thoughts?

Herbstlicht
02-02-2019, 06:40 PM
I think in duel conq still beats him. Overall though he has a very, very solid kit. However .. .it might be too early, but maybe, just maybe, he is the heavy Kensei. And this would be praise to the developers, But overall, this is the feeling I get right now. Conq, Warlord .. both have slightly different flavor. If its strength in 4on4, depending on the map (ledges), Warlord and BP would fight for the first "shield hero" place, then it would be conq, not too far behind.
Overall though, when looking at heavies, we got 2 different approaches. Shugoki and JJ both are offensive monsters. To a degree that - in my opinion - no other class can match. Personally, for the arche-type-heavy-class, I prefer the shield hero approach. Though new Shugoki .. he is heavy .. he is a breaker .. he is insane :3 Ah well, as long as its not too many in one team, its fine. But back to topic .. right now, to me at least, all heavies seem very, very valid. Biggest concern would be lawbro and aramusha. But both are not really heavies anyway. So ...

Hormly
02-02-2019, 06:43 PM
If they had fixed wl fullblock in the rework he may still be competitive.

Sigh, maybe in another six months

Herbstlicht
02-02-2019, 07:55 PM
You think warlord is not competetive? I mean he is weaker then the others, but .. not by a large margin, is he? I'd say actually that the overall meta did shift away from assassins to versatility. And Warlord still has versatility. Besides, I think, concerning ubis pace, the next big change will be at least a year away. Hm .. curious about S8 data btw ..

Knight_Raime
02-02-2019, 08:14 PM
I guess it depends on why you play those heros. From a statistical point of view conq is absolutely still worth playing. Warlord probably not. If you're just after the asthetic of playing as a sword and board hero/shield hero then yeah i'd say Black prior makes both obsolete. Visually more appealing and at least from a personal standpoint his sword and shield play feels more like i'd imagine a real fight would be like.

NHLGoldenKnight
02-02-2019, 08:40 PM
It's same in the gun community where most of guys don't even want to consider revolver and they think revolvers are obsolete. But they are not since they offer so many hidden advantages just if someone would think about it.

Same here. Someone maybe likes Vikings much more so he doesn't want to play knights at all. Other maybe like Conq's weapon more or simplicity in his move set.

I don't have new hero unlocked but playing agains a lot of them last few days , I have only few complaints. They get revenge relatively quickly because they turtle well but at the same time I saw them completely ignoring revenge activated by others which overall makes it pain, even in 1v1. The other thing are certain attacks that look like timing is off , similar to how some attacks of Chinese faction feel like. It's like I am being hit earlier than animation suggests and often there is no sound of him hitting me as well. Maybe some lagging issues?

Ubiflowessence
02-02-2019, 10:31 PM
From my personal experience I think Vortiger doesn't make Conq. and Warlord obsolete. Vortiger does have his Bulwark Stance and Bulwark Counter (which are nothing to brush off), but Conqueror still has a good defensive style and I've always like Warlord's headbutt.

But I do understand everyone's experience is different and would like to know how you all think Conq. and Warlord fair against Vortiger! :)

The_Sun_Danc3
02-02-2019, 11:05 PM
Black prior having 20 dmg 400 ms lights on top of his bash being unreactable after a heavy or light attack makes him OP. If you guys tuned down his damage output by a small margin he would be balanced. But his attack damage is definitely higher than it should be and his bash is probably the best in the game, considering he has multiple.

S.ArthurDayne
02-02-2019, 11:50 PM
"I've always liked Warlords Headbutt "
Vortigers SB 500 ms = 20 dmg , window for GB if dodged so small u have to predict it (or play Raider )
Conq SB 500 ms = 13 dmg , every hero can GB u if dodged , normal GB window
Warlord headbutt = 12 dmg , every hero can GB u if dodged , normal GB window
Tell me how is that fine? And im not saying buff Conq or Warlord .. The Vortiger SB needs to be (15-18 dmg) and have a GB window the same as the other two

Full block stances :
Vortigers Bulwark stance = fastest one to get into , fastest one to flow into after attacks = can punish every attack , unblockable or a bash for 30 dmg , vunerable to GB
Conq full block stance = slower to get into , slower to flow into = 33 dmg if a light or heavy attack hit u , vunerable to GB , unblockables , bashes
Warlords full stance = slower to get into , slower to flow into , u get a light for 12 dmg ... i repeat 12 dmg if u block a heavy , and sometimes if u are lucky u get a heavy .
Tell me again how is that fine ?
Peace , and thank you for working on the game for so long . Hope u will keep working on it and keep balancing it
These are just my 2 cents (PS buff cent )

C4rmine52
02-03-2019, 02:25 AM
Black prior having 20 dmg 400 ms lights on top of his bash being unreactable after a heavy or light attack makes him OP. If you guys tuned down his damage output by a small margin he would be balanced. But his attack damage is definitely higher than it should be and his bash is probably the best in the game, considering he has multiple.

Black priors lights are not 400 ms m8 they’re most definitely 500 ms and I find them fairly easy to block.

Siegfried-Z
02-03-2019, 03:15 PM
Conq main here returning to the game after a long down time.

Black Prior love the guys idea, his weapon, the Dante's inferno like design
But if Im honest I laughed him off, "if you wanted a powerful shield heavy play Conq" me with my little experience.
several matches later of eating my words with a salt martini and I came to a terrifying realization.
He might be the best shield bearing heavy in the game with some of the better quirks of the other two and none of the down sides.
He combo's better than warlord and (seem) faster than Conq's
He has an unblockable heavy from bulwark that doesn't require a successful block to do unlike flail uppercut.
THAT FULL COUNTER THO
He got abit more versatility than the other two.
Im not gonna call him op but goodness, I feel like Im out of a job here with just how good he does his.
Could just be new character envy but who knows. Thoughts?

Hum as it has been said i wound't say BP makes Conq or WL obsolet but he offer a new way to play Heavy char by being very good at mixing offense and defense and then his gameplay looks halfwway between Conq-WL and JJ-Shugo.
It dépends on how you like to play but COnq is still very competitive, this is just your choice to play one or another depending on which you like the most.
To me BP looks funnier to play, but still Conq look like the untaken castle from heavies ^^


Black prior having 20 dmg 400 ms lights on top of his bash being unreactable after a heavy or light attack makes him OP. If you guys tuned down his damage output by a small margin he would be balanced. But his attack damage is definitely higher than it should be and his bash is probably the best in the game, considering he has multiple.

1/ BP doesn't have 400ms lights, they are all 500ms with a very well done animation which makes them far easier to deal with than JJ ones for example.
2/ BP can't chain with a SB after a heavy… and his SB after the light is reactable. This is just new still, very soon people gonna dodge it more often.
3/ BP doesn't have the best Bash game in FH. Conq and Warden still have it.
4/His dmg are fine.. what's wrong with 20dmg ? Almost nobody were schock when JJ appear with a 38dmg lights chain and a bash which guaranteed 20dmg OR 45dmg because it can wallsplat or when Warden got a free Top Heavy from his buff charged SB, same for HL Kick/Grab almost guaranteed 45dmg and so on so what's wrong with 20dmg ? Common.


"I've always liked Warlords Headbutt "
Vortigers SB 500 ms = 20 dmg , window for GB if dodged so small u have to predict it (or play Raider )
Conq SB 500 ms = 13 dmg , every hero can GB u if dodged , normal GB window
Warlord headbutt = 12 dmg , every hero can GB u if dodged , normal GB window
Tell me how is that fine? And im not saying buff Conq or Warlord .. The Vortiger SB needs to be (15-18 dmg) and have a GB window the same as the other two

Full block stances :
Vortigers Bulwark stance = fastest one to get into , fastest one to flow into after attacks = can punish every attack , unblockable or a bash for 30 dmg , vunerable to GB
Conq full block stance = slower to get into , slower to flow into = 33 dmg if a light or heavy attack hit u , vunerable to GB , unblockables , bashes
Warlords full stance = slower to get into , slower to flow into , u get a light for 12 dmg ... i repeat 12 dmg if u block a heavy , and sometimes if u are lucky u get a heavy .
Tell me again how is that fine ?
Peace , and thank you for working on the game for so long . Hope u will keep working on it and keep balancing it
These are just my 2 cents (PS buff cent )

-About the Bash, with no doubts WL headbutt has been left behind. But Conq, while dealing less dmg, still has his feats which allow him to deal 10dmg with the Shield and then his light for 23dmg. So more than BP. And Conq has more SB options in his game than BP.

-About the stance. Again WL one is bad compare to the two others. But while BP Bullwark can counter more things, is faster to go into and to get out and has offensive option, Conq got some tools BP doesn't have from that and to be exact 2 strong tools :
1/ He can just bait the GB and land his Top heavy for free big damage (any decent conq perform this quite easly). I though BP gonna do it too, but i've test and his side UB is too vulnerable to GB for that, it didn't work for BP.
2/ Conq can get out of his full block with his full block instant Zone ! Which is maybe one of the best defensive tool of the whole game.

At the end, COnq full block is very harder to punish than BP bullwark.

To me, SB or Full block, both BP and Conq are good but with 2 gameplay oriented differently. That's all.

Jastorm187
02-03-2019, 05:11 PM
From my personal experience I think Vortiger doesn't make Conq. and Warlord obsolete. Vortiger does have his Bulwark Stance and Bulwark Counter (which are nothing to brush off), but Conqueror still has a good defensive style and I've always like Warlord's headbutt.

But I do understand everyone's experience is different and would like to know how you all think Conq. and Warlord fair against Vortiger! :)

Wow, is your defence of warlord competitiveness really "i like his headbutt". Lets look at only this comparison.

BP: Has forward dash shield bash, this gurantees 20 damage light.
Has heavy feint into shield bash for guarantee 20 dmg light.
- you can mix up with an undodgeable 40 dmg heavy after shield bash
- Or fake the shield bash by using forward dash heavy for 20 and its a chain starter

WL: Has forward dash headbut, this gurantees 12 dmg light.
Has forward dash heavy for 35 but is so slow its easy block and fully easy to parry. Also on block, when it guaranteed headbutt/stab would at least do 19 with chip damage, but you nerfed it and no longer guarantees headbutt. So thats out. Also head splitter leap only combos into headbutt... So it isn't a chain starter.
.... Thats it... Damage is almost half of BP, mixup options are less than half...

That is just comparing headbutt to bp shield bash.... Nevermind that even with the dmg buff, BP still is stronger... damage in general, full block vs bullwark, speed of attacks... You absolutely made warlord feel obsolete by giving him minimal love and attention, ehen he deserves so much more!

In my personal opinion, you took the things that you should have given warlord ( an unblockable attack, a guranteed fullblock counter, undodgeable finishers) and made a new character to sell. Then the buff you gave warlord simply un-nerfed his damage and stamina debuff but did nothing to help his kit.

Did you run out of ideas!?! How about listening to the community for once. There was 6 months of creative ideas and constructive discussion in the below link. Instead you release a half assed buff that only disgruntled warlord fans because who knows how long we will have to wait before another chance... Minimum season 12 is my guess.

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1889205-How-to-fix-Warlord

After all this and you say they are comparable?!

rasi777125
02-03-2019, 05:24 PM
Yes Man this is true, Warlord rework is a big Joke

Hormly
02-03-2019, 06:09 PM
It was going so well until they gave up at the end 😕

KotoKuraken
02-03-2019, 07:12 PM
Conq has
-superior heavies with minimal GB vulnerability (BP relies on superior lights)
-a zone that is very fast to start has really good option select (BP has a huge gb vulnerability for his zone, and the zone is slow enough that it is beat out by most attacks)
-can use dodge bashes (BP can't bash from a side dodge. Actually, scratch that, he can do nothing from a side dodge)
-can chain bashes after both light and heavy attacks (BP can only chain them after lights)
-can infinitely chain light and heavy attacks as he pleases without stopping (BP can't infinitely chain)
-can hold his counter for as long as he wants to (as opposed to BP requiring a strict parry time to land his counter)
-can get out of his counter stance at any time to use a light or heavy against gb attempts (BP is has a 500ms vulnerability to everything if he misses his timing)

Both are equally viable, but each has its own flavor. Conq is more single target oriented while BP seems to be designed with crowds in mind.

Warlord tho, he may need some help. He's helped out a lot with the hyperarmor, but he needs a lil more for his kit. Adding some form of softfeint could probably help him out