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View Full Version : Vortiger is too good.



Paper_tastes_ok
02-02-2019, 02:01 PM
Now I won't come off as a dude who just cries because I can't adapt to the new character with my main (Warden, which in my opinion is a good choice against Vortiger)

I just picked up Vortiger and after a few games, I can, with confidence, annihilate virtually anyone with little to no effort. He has EXTREMELY fast light attacks in every direction and they have superior block all ways. But that's not the worst part, It's the follow-up bash into another free 20 damage that makes me cringe. I can abuse it to the point where people have to auto-predict that the bash comes after the light, and then I can just either switch up my guard stance to (most of the times) land a free second light. Or I can just do a heavy (which is undodgeable). It's more or less a free 50/50 OFF A LIGHT, UBISOFT!

Now I have to admit, the all block stance feature is pretty cool, and it's beatable. But he does not need that fast light attacks or shield bashes. It makes no sense to me that a heavy character, like Vortiger, is that fast.

I was hyped for the :mad:new character, but I am disgusted by myself playing it.

Siegfried-Z
02-02-2019, 02:22 PM
Now I won't come off as a dude who just cries because I can't adapt to the new character with my main (Warden, which in my opinion is a good choice against Vortiger)

I just picked up Vortiger and after a few games, I can, with confidence, annihilate virtually anyone with little to no effort. He has EXTREMELY fast light attacks in every direction and they have superior block all ways. But that's not the worst part, It's the follow-up bash into another free 20 damage that makes me cringe. I can abuse it to the point where people have to auto-predict that the bash comes after the light, and then I can just either switch up my guard stance to (most of the times) land a free second light. Or I can just do a heavy (which is undodgeable). It's more or less a free 50/50 OFF A LIGHT, UBISOFT!

Now I have to admit, the all block stance feature is pretty cool, and it's beatable. But he does not need that fast light attacks or shield bashes. It makes no sense to me that a heavy character, like Vortiger, is that fast.

I was hyped for the :mad:new character, but I am disgusted by myself playing it.

His lights are 500ms with a proper animation. They are not hard To handle, even console it is parried sometimes .

Any Wulins got lights harder to deal with than BP, including JJ because even after the fix their animation is not quit good.

And, correct me if you think i am wrong but does not Warden have a better 50/50 off a light as well ?

Herbstlicht
02-02-2019, 02:47 PM
Well, one has to admit the ease of landing 35 damage as a BP. Besides, I seem it important that his lights are a very solid offense and defense tool. However, to really say it is too strong .. I dunno yet. Not to be mean. But in 4on4 Shugogi and still JJ seem superior.

Paper_tastes_ok
02-02-2019, 03:48 PM
Your information may be correct, but the 50/50 you get from BP is a TRUE one, a bash from warden is reactable.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2019, 04:06 PM
Your information may be correct, but the 50/50 you get from BP is a TRUE one, a bash from warden is reactable.

Proper Warden bash games are not reactable. Black prior's neutral bash and bash after an attack have horrible tracking. So it's easy to side dodge.

Jacques-Le-Coq
02-02-2019, 04:33 PM
BP can also feint his bash with his flip stance.

Siegfried-Z
02-02-2019, 05:37 PM
BP can also feint his bash with his flip stance.
Feint his bash ? I gess you mean something else as BP can feint none of his SB once he land it.

Vakris_One
02-02-2019, 07:13 PM
BP can also feint his bash with his flip stance.
No he can't. He's not able to soft feint anything into his bullwark stance. He can only fast flow into Bullwark after blocking and to cut his recovery after throwing a heavy or light attack.

Star.Princess
02-02-2019, 08:01 PM
His lights are 500ms with a proper animation. They are not hard To handle, even console it is parried sometimes .

Any Wulins got lights harder to deal with than BP, including JJ because even after the fix their animation is not quit good.

And, correct me if you think i am wrong but does not Warden have a better 50/50 off a light as well ?

Warden's 50/50 after is different
It deal 18 damage (BP's 20) for light and 30 damage (BP's 40) for feint into gb, also there are moves which can't be punished by simple feint like Conq's or Gladiator's dodge bashes.
His shoulder aren't broken, shoulder after OOS light unguaranteed.
And also shoulder can be punished for attempt to deal 18 damage, BP's can't.

Mighty_Mackerel
02-02-2019, 10:19 PM
Now I won't come off as a dude who just cries because I can't adapt to the new character with my main (Warden, which in my opinion is a good choice against Vortiger)

I just picked up Vortiger and after a few games, I can, with confidence, annihilate virtually anyone with little to no effort. He has EXTREMELY fast light attacks in every direction and they have superior block all ways. But that's not the worst part, It's the follow-up bash into another free 20 damage that makes me cringe. I can abuse it to the point where people have to auto-predict that the bash comes after the light, and then I can just either switch up my guard stance to (most of the times) land a free second light. Or I can just do a heavy (which is undodgeable). It's more or less a free 50/50 OFF A LIGHT, UBISOFT!

Now I have to admit, the all block stance feature is pretty cool, and it's beatable. But he does not need that fast light attacks or shield bashes. It makes no sense to me that a heavy character, like Vortiger, is that fast.

I was hyped for the :mad:new character, but I am disgusted by myself playing it.

You must be playing against people who are just really bad then, I am easily able to defend against Black Priors who are over-reliant on their lights and shield bashes and there have been plenty of people who have been able to do the same when I play Black Prior against them. His damage really doesn't make that much of an impact when he only has 2 hit combos and his stamina depletes accordingly. Perhaps a small damage reduction on his lights is in order, but other than that he is no where near as strong as the usual suspects: Berserker, Shaman, Conqueror, Valkyrie, Warden, Shoalin, Jang Jun...

Dimitri..-
02-02-2019, 10:30 PM
The only problem I have with Black Prior is the confirmed 20 dmg after a bash, regardless if its easy to dodge or not. Other than that he is fine

MCBooma16
02-03-2019, 03:15 AM
Honestly I'm on the fence about BP's bash options. Sure, he has all these neat tools, but why use those if the bashes are conq-level or close to conq-level?

500ms lights are good. 600 is too slow, as we see with Nobushi and Raider. 400 is too fast sometimes and just annoying. The fast characters need it, because they're fast. BP doesn't need faster, or slower lights. They seem to work well. People get caught off guard since BP can bash from neutral, after a light, or soft feint from a heavy.

BP's bug where, if a light lands while the opponent is OOS, the bash is guaranteed. This is clearly Ubi's fault and that's ridiculous and very bad, but they said they're working on it. I won't play until that's fixed because I know that's going to frustrate me. Other than that, fighting a BP feels like fighting a Tiandi with the palm strikes. Fighting a Conq is honestly easier because all they use is bashes and have poor offense anyway. BP has plenty of options, either from neutral or after attacks or even from his stance with the UB.

The BW stance is cool. It's similar to Ara's all guard, and it's quite satisfying catching a BP in the animation. "I ain't no pancake, B****! :D"

He's a good hero. This character reveal seemed to have had much better impressions than the Wu-Lin, probably because all the Wu-Lin are fast and spammy. BP seems to have had a lot of time put in. Ubi even decided on lore and stuff to introduce, which shows their passion.

I'm looking forward to seeing the next character(s). It's gonna be great.

Comisari0
02-03-2019, 05:56 AM
The Vortish1t ruined everything, you just sit around and EVERYBODY just use the shield bash. Its annoying. And the worst, is that you surely have 3-4 of that broken crap per match. And we complain about the spam in the Orochi hahahaha

The_Sun_Danc3
02-03-2019, 07:27 AM
Proper Warden bash games are not reactable. Black prior's neutral bash and bash after an attack have horrible tracking. So it's easy to side dodge.

LMAO Wut?
I havenít seen somebody go full potato in so long, but you my friend, are full of CSs.

Siegfried-Z
02-03-2019, 03:58 PM
Warden's 50/50 after is different
It deal 18 damage (BP's 20) for light and 30 damage (BP's 40) for feint into gb, also there are moves which can't be punished by simple feint like Conq's or Gladiator's dodge bashes.
His shoulder aren't broken, shoulder after OOS light unguaranteed.
And also shoulder can be punished for attempt to deal 18 damage, BP's can't.

Your so bs in your comment about BP.
BP never got 40dmg on GB feint as only his finisher does 40. He got 30dmg on a GB. Btw Warden dmg on a GB are 33 and not 30 if i remember well.
And i don't know why you talk about feint into GB as BP just CANT feint any bash. Maybe you though about his L-H chain but you cant compare it To Warden bash feint as BP sb is dodgeable on reaction.

So, let's looks at it objectivly :
-After a light BP can chain for a SB which guaranteed 20dmg if it works. Cant be feinted.
-After a light (or a guaranteed double btw) Warden can chain with his classic SB for 18 more dmg and keep going with his vortex. He can cancel it for a gb and score 33dmg . He can feint a charge SB in order To punish dodge attack or he can chargť it and got a top heavy from that for 45? 50dmg ? Dont even remember .

BP oos is an unintended bug so dont even use it as an argue. The team us already looking at it.

Warden SB game is stronger.


LMAO Wut?
I havenít seen somebody go full potato in so long, but you my friend, are full of CSs.

Hope you're talking about yourself.
You say many wrong things everywhere on the forum and dare saying this To Raime lol

Knight_Raime
02-03-2019, 04:04 PM
LMAO Wut?
I haven’t seen somebody go full potato in so long, but you my friend, are full of CSs.

If you dodge early enough then his buffered bash will catch you. However if you don't you can very easily dodge any varied timing on his neutral and combo bash on one timing.
It's punishing either bash that's difficult to do. Avoiding the bash isn't though.

Jacques-Le-Coq
02-03-2019, 04:12 PM
No he can't. He's not able to soft feint anything into his bullwark stance. He can only fast flow into Bullwark after blocking and to cut his recovery after throwing a heavy or light attack.

I dunno then, i saw a BP do it me, it was just me and him and he charged his bash then just as the orange icon popped up he went into bulwark stance. It didn't seem laggy, but its possible. have you tried doing it in training?

Knight_Raime
02-03-2019, 04:19 PM
I dunno then, i saw a BP do it me, it was just me and him and he charged his bash then just as the orange icon popped up he went into bulwark stance. It didn't seem laggy, but its possible. have you tried doing it in training?

It's not possible. I have a theory though. If you are referring to his neutral bash you can technically flicker the unblockable indicator but not commit. So I'm thinking what might have happened is the person unintentionally flickered the neutral bash and then just went into the unblockable from neutral. Let me link a video of this and you tell me if this is what you saw.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/alu5kd/black_prior_flicker_tech/

Jacques-Le-Coq
02-03-2019, 04:39 PM
It's not possible. I have a theory though. If you are referring to his neutral bash you can technically flicker the unblockable indicator but not commit. So I'm thinking what might have happened is the person unintentionally flickered the neutral bash and then just went into the unblockable from neutral. Let me link a video of this and you tell me if this is what you saw.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/alu5kd/black_prior_flicker_tech/

Sorta but it looked like he was in the middle of the bash when he went into bulwark.
Nonetheless flickering is a problem, because it forces a reaction a lot of the time.

Knight_Raime
02-03-2019, 05:33 PM
Sorta but it looked like he was in the middle of the bash when he went into bulwark.
Nonetheless flickering is a problem, because it forces a reaction a lot of the time.

Hmm interesting. Well I haven't heard of anything like that beyond the flicker. So it would be a big help next time you run into it if you could record a clip.
Normally I wouldn't think it's anything beyond lag. But since shaolin had the ability to feint back into qi I think anything is technically possible even if unintended.

Vakris_One
02-03-2019, 10:40 PM
Normally, there's nothing in Vortiger's kit that allows him to softfeint into Bullwark. However Vortiger does have a few bugs such as unintentional flickering that shows up as he goes through certain combinations. He can't actually softfeint anything into Bullwark stance but the buggy flickers can put you off.

MuscleTech12018
02-03-2019, 11:01 PM
Vortiger has no flaws whatsoever so far :rolleyes:

It's great for the balance !

He can literaly spam lights + bash with guaranteed UBs and bulwark and heal when he's in trouble :)))

Sometimes the amateur developers from Ubisoft Canada are just beautiful :))

Siegfried-Z
02-04-2019, 12:47 AM
Vortiger has no flaws whatsoever so far :rolleyes:

It's great for the balance !

He can literaly spam lights + bash with guaranteed UBs and bulwark and heal when he's in trouble :)))

Sometimes the amateur developers from Ubisoft Canada are just beautiful :))

Yeah spam 500ms lights well sync, reactable bash, got GB punished by spamming Bullwark and his NON guaranteed UB you're right… i Don't get why people Always say wrong things about char they Don't like.

For example i dislike JJ but i'm not going to blame him for things he doesn't have. Common