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View Full Version : Thanks for another Tier SS+ trashy cheesy OP character



FlyinBeef
02-01-2019, 03:55 PM
Shugoki rework is awesome, skill requirable character with interesting and new gameplay, thanks for great map, all is awesome, but Black Prior.
This character unvillates all good things happend or will happen in new season. Do not write me that I whine, or that all new heroes look OP, I one of people who think that Wu Lin are normal characters, I think that Tier S characters are normal, it is hard to deal with them, but it isn't impossible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN5zaUfjv4U&feature=youtu.be

SpaceJim12
02-01-2019, 04:27 PM
Hmmm, maybe you should just pick another tactic? And remember is a bot. They are block everything they can. I doubt it will be same perfect against real people.

UplayCroma
02-01-2019, 04:36 PM
I feel exactly the same as you..

another light+bash+light spamming hero, with really no punish to his only combo everyone has been doing when I've played.
this is from a warlord perspective.

headbutting him? they dodge and get a free gb.
I dodge his bash? nothing, no gb, no light, cant even headbutt. literally no punish.

Knight_Raime
02-01-2019, 04:44 PM
1) Kensei's dodge attack is too slow to punish a buffered conq bash so of course it's not going to be able to punish BP's bash. They're the same speed with the same timing.

2) All of your dodge attacks and most of your GB attempts are being done on orange. In order to deal with the buffered bash you have to dodge on his dodge or slightly earlier in order to net a GB or a dodge attack (if your dodge attack is 500ms speed.)

3) On a personal note it's interesting to see how you're usually a calm and reasonable poster but almost all of your messages on here that involve black prior seem to be worded almost exactly the same way by the people you seem to try to debate against.

4) Bots are never used as proof for anything since bots do not play by the same rules nor do they play the same way humans do.

C4rmine52
02-01-2019, 04:45 PM
Dude you’ve been crying about black prior since the update are you gonna keep crying or actually learn how to fight him ? Because at this point you’re just spamming.

FlyinBeef
02-01-2019, 05:01 PM
1) Kensei's dodge attack is too slow to punish a buffered conq bash so of course it's not going to be able to punish BP's bash. They're the same speed with the same timing.

2) All of your dodge attacks and most of your GB attempts are being done on orange. In order to deal with the buffered bash you have to dodge on his dodge or slightly earlier in order to net a GB or a dodge attack (if your dodge attack is 500ms speed.)

3) On a personal note it's interesting to see how you're usually a calm and reasonable poster but almost all of your messages on here that involve black prior seem to be worded almost exactly the same way by the people you seem to try to debate against.

4) Bots are never used as proof for anything since bots do not play by the same rules nor do they play the same way humans do.

1) Kensei can punish Conq's with dodge attack even if he dodge at orange indicator.

2) Prior have much lower recovery, I fought ranked against grand-master Zerker (Hamed-0, he is really good player, trust me) and win him just because he couldn't punish my bashes. Even I fought against Warden and he coulnd't punish my bash too, I just dodged his shoulder, for 15 matches nobody took me in gb for reaction dodge, only for predicts.

4) I didn't proof that it is possible to counter crash HL offensive lights with guard change, I proof simple thing which I also tested with my friend. Bot don't play by the same rules if we talk about counter attacks, but now it is nothing differend between real player and bot, cause he make shieldbash and block/counter gb if recovery allows.

Knight_Raime
02-01-2019, 05:05 PM
1) Kensei can punish Conq's with dodge attack even if he dodge at orange indicator.

2) Prior have much lower recovery, I fought ranked against grand-master Zerker (Hamed-0, he is really good player, trust me) and win him just because he couldn't punish my bashes. Even I fought against Warden and he coulnd't punish my bash too, I just dodged his shoulder, for 15 matches nobody took me in gb for reaction dodge, only for predicts.

4) I didn't proof that it is possible to counter crash HL offensive lights with guard change, I proof simple thing which I also tested with my friend. Bot don't play by the same rules if we talk about counter attacks, but now it is nothing differend between real player and bot, cause he make shieldbash and block/counter gb if recovery allows.

Not if it's a buffered bash.
I don't care who you fought. there is already evidence out there from trusted members of the community that you absolutely can dodge GB and dodge attack black priors buffered bash. It just has tight timing.
Bots do not delay inputs. They are always buffered. Bots will also let things happen or not punish things when they can. Bots are usually not accepted as viable means to prove/disprove something. All I was pointing out.

FlyinBeef
02-01-2019, 05:11 PM
Dude you’ve been crying about black prior since the update are you gonna keep crying or actually learn how to fight him ? Because at this point you’re just spamming.

Yeah man, I am gonna keep crying, cause it is OP, I won't endure this s*it from developers, they say that balance is top priority and than they add Tier SS+ all modes hero without any weakness, only Gladiator or Highlander can deal (not counter, deal, deal with sweat and blood) with him if they are very skilled, even characters like Tiandi or Monk dying fastly against him.
https://i.ibb.co/2MPCm8N/k-TKYw0v-RSb-I.jpg (https://ibb.co/gWwfHvV)

FlyinBeef
02-01-2019, 05:17 PM
Not if it's a buffered bash.
I don't care who you fought. there is already evidence out there from trusted members of the community that you absolutely can dodge GB and dodge attack black priors buffered bash. It just has tight timing.
Bots do not delay inputs. They are always buffered. Bots will also let things happen or not punish things when they can. Bots are usually not accepted as viable means to prove/disprove something. All I was pointing out.

But even Conq have low recovery on bash, even Conq! Do you understand that BP's bash is 20dmg with stamina drain with lower recoveries, and Conq's bash still good thing to open people, it is decent opener, do you understand that BP's much stronger? Do you understand that his stance unpunishably counter 400ms of Orochi or Tiandi? Is it normal too?

FlyinBeef
02-01-2019, 05:21 PM
Not if it's a buffered bash.
I don't care who you fought. there is already evidence out there from trusted members of the community that you absolutely can dodge GB and dodge attack black priors buffered bash. It just has tight timing.
Bots do not delay inputs. They are always buffered. Bots will also let things happen or not punish things when they can. Bots are usually not accepted as viable means to prove/disprove something. All I was pointing out.

And I also can send you a video against my friend, there won't be any differents. Bots have same bashes, 100ms dodge, 500ms bash.

FlyinBeef
02-01-2019, 05:37 PM
Not if it's a buffered bash.
I don't care who you fought. there is already evidence out there from trusted members of the community that you absolutely can dodge GB and dodge attack black priors buffered bash. It just has tight timing.
Bots do not delay inputs. They are always buffered. Bots will also let things happen or not punish things when they can. Bots are usually not accepted as viable means to prove/disprove something. All I was pointing out.

For example, If you can't block 400ms lights with bots, with players it will be impossible, that how it works, bots have no ping and if I can't punish BP even with bot that mean and proof it will be much harder against real player, that how it works.

Knight_Raime
02-01-2019, 05:51 PM
But even Conq have low recovery on bash, even Conq! Do you understand that BP's bash is 20dmg with stamina drain with lower recoveries, and Conq's bash still good thing to open people, it is decent opener, do you understand that BP's much stronger? Do you understand that his stance unpunishably counter 400ms of Orochi or Tiandi? Is it normal too?


And I also can send you a video against my friend, there won't be any differents. Bots have same bashes, 100ms dodge, 500ms bash.

So I went and double checked in game. Kensei's dodge attack can indeed punish a buffered bash. That is my fault. But while I was there I also tested dodging into GB and dodge attacks.
I didn't test every dodge attack. But I tested shaman/zerks. I also tested kensei's. I tested pk and Nuxia's.

All of those heros can punish his bash attack with a dodge attack. And it is entirely possible to dodge into GB his bash as well.

It was the easiest to dodge attack with kensei, zerk, and shaman. the former because of the variable input window. The latter two because their variable input plus speed. By input i' referring to the fact that their dodge attack can start 100ms into their dodge. PK and nuxia can't start their dodge attack until 300ms into their dodge. Which makes it harder to punish certain things. In this case it's still perfectly possible for the dodge attack to land. The timing is just a bit tighter.

For dodge into GB you have to dodge on their dodge. It's also possible to GB a frame or 2 after you see orange. But if you are trying to dodge GB on unblockable indicator it won't work.
I also did these tests against conq. I do not know conq's recovery from bash whiff. I do know that black prior's is 600ms. Considering it was easier to do on conq I'd have to say it's 700-800ms.
In other words you can reaction punish with a dodge attack for most dodge attacks on black priors buffered bash. But it is a tight reaction. And dodge into GB/certain dodge attacks is a basically read.

As for the rest of your first statement i'm not going to touch it because I'm not here to debate a characters position in tier or wether they are OP or not only a day after we got him.

Siegfried-Z
02-01-2019, 08:01 PM
Shugoki rework is awesome, skill requirable character with interesting and new gameplay, thanks for great map, all is awesome, but Black Prior.
This character unvillates all good things happend or will happen in new season. Do not write me that I whine, or that all new heroes look OP, I one of people who think that Wu Lin are normal characters, I think that Tier S characters are normal, it is hard to deal with them, but it isn't impossible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN5zaUfjv4U&feature=youtu.be

His Bash is dodgeable on reaction. In an easier way than Conq.
His zone is a slower Glad one
His lights are 500ms with a proper animation, they are not hard to handle even on console
His stance is highly punishable
His foward dodge attack is telegraphed as hell and have poor range
His doesn't have HA
His only UB Always come from the same direction for only 30dmg
His highest dmg moove is his heavy finisher which is very slow
He doesn't have side dodge attack
His feats are strong but with any doubts not more than JJ ones


BP is a good char, strong but absolutly not a cheesy SS+ char or whatever you call him.
Just spend a few moment and practice against him.. as you said.


I have been playing him and didnt had the feeling of "easy wins" JJ gave me. I also play against him and won i think more than 50% of my fights against BP with Shaman and New Shugo.

FlyinBeef
02-01-2019, 10:43 PM
His Bash is dodgeable on reaction. In an easier way than Conq.
His zone is a slower Glad one
His lights are 500ms with a proper animation, they are not hard to handle even on console
His stance is highly punishable
His foward dodge attack is telegraphed as hell and have poor range
His doesn't have HA
His only UB Always come from the same direction for only 30dmg
His highest dmg moove is his heavy finisher which is very slow
He doesn't have side dodge attack
His feats are strong but with any doubts not more than JJ ones


BP is a good char, strong but absolutly not a cheesy SS+ char or whatever you call him.
Just spend a few moment and practice against him.. as you said.


I have been playing him and didnt had the feeling of "easy wins" JJ gave me. I also play against him and won i think more than 50% of my fights against BP with Shaman and New Shugo.

How his bash easier then Conq's? It have same 100ms dodge and 500ms bash, also it unpunishable, I killed a lot of good Shugoki's or Zekrers in ranked just with brainless spam without stance, I just spammed and they couldn't punish me, every bash 20dmg, not strong for you? If you lost stamina it is auto-death, very balanced, HL and Conq taken together have less deeadly OOS punish. After light he can make unpunishable (now really unpunishable, without tight timings) 500ms bash with 20dmg light or undodgable heavy except bash, stance which fully counter Orochi, Tiandi and other heroes with 400ms, seems balanced. Glad's zone was at least half-stamina move which can be punished for every character with gb to his feint and which was 600ms, it wasn't impossible to dodge, of course Vortiger can be dodge, but you will miss bashes, maybe after feints, but you will, and it is very, very hard to punish this thing with gb.

atac56
02-01-2019, 11:45 PM
The Black Prior is by no means OP. I'm sure most people havent mastered him yet but he's not hard to deal with at all. Keep pressure on him and guardbreak often. his heavies and undodgable attacks are telegraphed. I'm already parrying him regularly. hes more normal than any of the marching fire characters

Siegfried-Z
02-01-2019, 11:58 PM
How his bash easier then Conq's? It have same 100ms dodge and 500ms bash, also it unpunishable, I killed a lot of good Shugoki's or Zekrers in ranked just with brainless spam without stance, I just spammed and they couldn't punish me, every bash 20dmg, not strong for you? If you lost stamina it is auto-death, very balanced, HL and Conq taken together have less deeadly OOS punish. After light he can make unpunishable (now really unpunishable, without tight timings) 500ms bash with 20dmg light or undodgable heavy except bash, stance which fully counter Orochi, Tiandi and other heroes with 400ms, seems balanced. Glad's zone was at least half-stamina move which can be punished for every character with gb to his feint and which was 600ms, it wasn't impossible to dodge, of course Vortiger can be dodge, but you will miss bashes, maybe after feints, but you will, and it is very, very hard to punish this thing with gb.

Well it looks you didn't have a Pleasant experience in the game so far with BP. But it doesn't mean he is OP.
His OOS pressure is a non intended things which gonna be fix with the next patch, just as bad sync on JJ lights during more than a month (just a reminder). As it is, this is too strong, but they are currently looking into it. And appart from that, Nothing is that OP in his kit. I've play with and against him the whole afternoon and in my opinion the guy is not toxic for the game, he is a new breath.
Of course a bit too much Bash oriented but overall i like how his kit is design = No unreactable things, No too big dmg, No AOE cancer mooves, No UB everywhere.. i have no pb at fighting a full team of BP.
BP or Wulins, i would sign right now for a full BP team as opponents.. At least the fight is interesting. But this last point is only a personal opinion.

About his ability to block Roch or Tiandi 400ms light, i will just say "Thanks!!". Finally a pretty good way to handle light spammy noobs on console.

UbiInsulin
02-02-2019, 01:05 AM
As for the rest of your first statement i'm not going to touch it because I'm not here to debate a characters position in tier or wether they are OP or not only a day after we got him.

Yeah, this strikes me as reasonable. Thanks everyone for your feedback as we all get more and more experienced in fighting Black Prior.