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View Full Version : I know it's early, and I know a fix is coming but:



Vendelkin
02-01-2019, 02:22 AM
These are my thoughts after about 4 hours of gameplay today in the arena and the vortiger flood weekly quest currently available. thus they may not apply to everything really occurring within the pvp scene right now.

Also I'm not asking for fixes to all these things, some of them need to be kept to keep vortiger strong and unique regardless of how frustrating they are to play against, so not all of these observations are necessarily nerf calls... However there are a few things I feel really need to change with regards to how much stam+hpDMG he can guarantee with exploits, and yes I do know at least some of these are supposed to already have a fix in bound. Final note: I do main aramusha, but play many others at high rank (Nobushi,Kensei,Shinobi,Highlander,Berserker,and I used to play a lot of orochi but hate his current state)

GOKI
I'm gonna start playing the heck outta this guy :D
As far as Shugoki is concerned I love the new version, and I in fact think the new version is also more fun than the old. I certainly mean to be stereotyping here so im not gonna sugar coat it, but the people who loved the shugoki as he was mostly loved him purely for his OHKO hug and like to abuse gimmicks/exploits as much as they can. DE is now far more consistent with other similar manuevers.

Goki gank squads are awful yeah... as is any gank squad of the same people, but well its just what it is. I for one enjoy the freedom we currently have to choose any hero in 4v4s regardless of other peoples choices but the duplicate gank awfulness has been around forever and is the same with any hero.

Animations on Goki are Jank and that is a big issue.

I haven't tried to read the stamina bar yet but I have heard that you can read his feints early because of how it works atm, and that is a problem to be fixed if its happening.

VORTIGER
Okay so..... I'm kinda butthurt about him if I'm being honest with myself. I make weekly videos of the arcade quests. I've cleared this weeks three times already, and all without exploiting traps/ledges/spikes, but.... Vortiger has a few very VERY broken aspects right now, as an AI, and thus likely of course as a good player

-First: The devs and others on the forum kept saying one of the most important things about fighting vortiger was to maintain a slight distance because his bash covers far less area than conquerors. This is wrong (not the area part but the distance part) Vortiger has only 1 real weakness.... that isn't really even a weakness: GB. and if you ever want to be in range to not whiff your guard break against him as most heroes you have to be right up there in his face. So claiming a weakness of his bash is it's lesser range is absolute BS because you can't outplay him at range, especially because he can fairly quickly get into undodgeables, which brings me to:

-His undodgeable. I get it, it's supposed to be undodgeable, but vortiger can also catch you with it if you dodge and back roll his opener light, or heavy and he does his undodgeable it still catches you (even tho it wasn't the move you just dodged) before you can come out of your roll. So disengaging is impossible from a good vortiger? maybe? so Im not sure if this one was arcade mode being Wonky, but the point being rolling away from him wasn't safe and if people learn to exploit that it could be seriously troublesome.

-the speed with which he safely gets into, and out of his full block stance is beyond anything any other character has. there is almost no risk to using it. and because he can move while using it he can actively back up while doing so to avoid gb. this is a problem to me. Almost all other full block users have a much bigger drawback to it than this. There should be some drawback, or other full block users need to get buffed in some way (please oh god make an aramusha change so it' even slightly more like this.) By the way I get that a shields bigger and all, but the actual ability to manuever swords into a block takes less effort than to lug a giant shield and stamina use/recovery time after musha BB is terribly unrealistic. ("uhhhh duh.. nothing hit my blades? guess the enemies not here better put my guard down entirely for a second...OH SHI")

-his trump all fullblock counter flip ability is very strong. It SHOULD NOT be able to block drop attacks or feat attacks. thats just some BS. And although yes it is susceptible to GB because of the things I mentioned earlier a lot of the time he uses it to block hes kinda outta GB range anyways, plus the move is made stronger by the various ways he can feint to get into it. Attempting to predict it is really the only way to GB him outta it, and it just wins agaisnt too many attacks, with too little a punish on awhiffed attempt. Also I'm not 100% sure but I have yet to dodge a bash after the flip which of course guarantees another light. which is a much bigger stamina and dmg punish than he should be able to make literally anytime with low risk.
Also this above counter move is the one that pisses me off because as a person who mains aramusha and has been extremely angry about how blade blockade performs in PvP this is just a big fat slap in the face. I mean to beat out blade blockade all you have to do is feint into a light...., or a GB.... or a bash..., or another heavy and you will win out because of it's delay timings. and even if you get it off... the punish is... a single predicatable heavy, a push, or a light attack stun (which stun effects do nearly nothing to a trained player).

Also....^^^this combined with the bash reminds me a lot of the centurion cutscene days @_@...


-Vortiger does take serious skill to play tho despite all this. the way his kit comes together makes it only truly devastating if the user can psuedo infinite chain while feinting occasionally.

-I've never actually seen a vortiger use a superior block attack. I know that sounds funny but it's true, it just hasn't happened in my hours of play today. He is supposed to have them right? point being I don't think this is a necessary part of his kit, and really doesn't need to be in there cause he has a enough tools at his disposal already.

-unless you have a dodge attack dodging his bashes doesn't guarantee a GB or even a light. this is a problem as well IMO because dodging his bash is the only way to avoid it, but comes with extreme risk as he can feint into attacks or gb to catch you. and even those with dodge attacks do so at great risk because he can just go into his super block form.

-More on his bashes. because his followup attacks come out so quick, or because of lack of recovery im not sure, he can bash (which you succesfully dodge) and then enter his fullblock counter before you get a light out allowing him to flip you immediatly after his bash. Point being after all of this. Aramusha literally has absolutely no options available to deal with his flip counter and bashes, and the match up is extremely agravating seeing as half of vortigers kit overcomes aramushas full block, but if both vort and ara enter full block at the same time he comes out of it quicker and can then score a free hit while the ara is still recovering it feels like.



CONCLUSION: I'm willing to give it time. other than the fact that drop attacks should work, and feats should work on him I'm not calling for a nerf just yet. but after 4 hours of play today I'll admit I was extremely frustrated.

-Yes there are a few characters that can beat him (4 i think?), berserker obviously being one of them, but for the most part he has a massive advantage against the rest of the heroes.

TatoRezo
02-01-2019, 06:16 AM
I think you missed the part where Vortiger has the best and probably uncountarable OOS pressure with his light attack block into guaranteed bash into light attack