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Szalej.
01-23-2019, 09:07 AM
Any changes coming anytime soon to her?

The.All.Father
01-23-2019, 09:16 AM
Any changes coming anytime soon to her?

Hope so !

Kryltic
01-23-2019, 01:49 PM
Probably another round of nerfs because she's "too good" as what happens most seasons.

Szalej.
01-23-2019, 02:45 PM
Wouldnt be surprised to her hidden stance nerf. Like shes not a stamina simulator right now lol. Everytime i duel as her i wonder if i go OOS still having 70% stamina left

Ubiflowessence
01-23-2019, 09:50 PM
I don't have any info on changes coming to Nobushi right now, but I do know of hero updates for certain warriors like Shugoki will be coming in Year 3 Season 1!

What are some reasons in particular you'd like to see changes to Nobushi and what changes would they be?

Siegfried-Z
01-23-2019, 10:31 PM
I don't have any info on changes coming to Nobushi right now, but I do know of hero updates for certain warriors like Shugoki will be coming in Year 3 Season 1!

What are some reasons in particular you'd like to see changes to Nobushi and what changes would they be?

If i may. I know this is a part of the job to ask things like that but dont .. people gonna get frustrated.
Nobu is in a bad spot and that's pretty common for all the playerbase for a while already.

But.. if we consider the team does her rework according to the Setmyx tier list blindly then Nobu is S tier ... :/

The.All.Father
01-23-2019, 11:00 PM
I don't have any info on changes coming to Nobushi right now, but I do know of hero updates for certain warriors like Shugoki will be coming in Year 3 Season 1!

What are some reasons in particular you'd like to see changes to Nobushi and what changes would they be?

As Siegfried-Z said - It is probably your job to ask these questions (with this comment he spared u some malice from me...). I don't know if there is a character who's hits are more telegraphed than her, meh. No. Just read the fcking 1000 threads about how weak is nobushi or better - play the game, see for yourself Mr/Mrs Community Representative.

Kryltic
01-23-2019, 11:38 PM
Her attacks are all slow, and easily avoidable/punishable.

Her attacks are all telegraphed, you can easily tell when an attack is coming and what kind of attack it will be. As a result of both of the above, her damage output is too low when you wish to perform any chaina.

Her Hidden Stance costs stamina AND delays stamina recovery. It doesn't need to do both, the JJ has his own Hidden Stance that costs no stamina, recovers his stamina and can be used even when OOS. She is already a stamina hungry character and this only makes things worse.

Her Vipers Retreat does little in the way of helping her retreat from anything but single attacks and even then if the opponent is clever they can launch another free attack. When using this ability your opponent should lose their lock on and any attacks that track should miss.

Finally, she has little in the way to open up turtles. Her only unblockable is her kick which has to come from a chain or hidden stance. She needs some kind of opener.
I feel something akin to the Nuxias trap (in the sense she bypasses guard stances and cannot be parried) which could be represented by her quickly moving her point of attack to just under the defenders grip/opposite side of the lowest part of a shield when they go to block. It could nudge the opponent back while inflicting light damage + bleed.

For this to activate it could work by pressing the "light attack" button when your opponent switches his guard to match yours but only during a light attack. Just a random thought, Im not sure if it would work mechanically but it gives her some extra depth while remaining unique.

Helnekromancer
01-23-2019, 11:40 PM
I don't have any info on changes coming to Nobushi right now, but I do know of hero updates for certain warriors like Shugoki will be coming in Year 3 Season 1!

What are some reasons in particular you'd like to see changes to Nobushi and what changes would they be?

Rep60 Nobushi, here and right now I hate playing her, shes purely defensive with no offense, I have to play nearly perfectly to beat anyone, my running speed is stupidly slow almost everyone is faster than me other than Shugoki and Warlord and I think Highlander, even though I run around in bath robes. I think these changes would make her a much fun hero to use because right now there's almost no reason to use her, Jiang Jun took her job and is faster, hits harder, has more health, and has better feats and perks than her.

-A deflect like assassins, with a successful deflect she gets a free kick into a bleed light or she hit the target with the back of her Naginata doing 20-25 damage and knocks the enemy back.

-With Hidden Stance, heavy out of Hidden stance has unblockable properties, and light and kicks out of HS are slightly faster.

- Light Light Heavy combos

- Side dash lights track

- Heavy finishers are unblockable

-Swift Recoil blocks all incoming attacks during it's animation and she can cancel swift recoil mid way with Hidden Stance

-With her zone, she can cancel the 2nd part with Hidden Stance or into a kick

-the 2nd heavy in Death Rattle Form is slightly faster

-Lower the stamina consumption of all her abilities.

I doubt we would ever get these changes but it just sucks playing her right now and with gear stats gone i run out of stamina so fast that I have to fight in small concentrated bursts; not saying I spammed in the past, but when I found an opening the fight started to turn in my favor, nowadays I find an opening and then stop myself immediately before I go oos, it's like she has asthma or something. :/

Also there is something wrong with Nobushi's guard, attacks go through my guard at least 1-2 times in every fight, especially when I'm fighting against a Kensei. I know this because I played with my Kensei and fought against a Nobushi on Dominion and watch as my side heavy swing went through her guard and killed her. I swing, her Naginata twitches upon my blade hitting it, and she dies.

Szalej.
01-24-2019, 01:15 PM
Rep 60 here also. 600 MS Light from Top guard for 20 dmg is just a bad joke, meanwhile half of the roster has 400 ms followups, 400 ms top lights, 500 ms side lights for 20 dmg+. As above, Nobushi players has to put so much effort to deal damage for half percent of enemy health its embarassing. Even if you found a way to open up a turtle, sometimes all you can do is light for 12 dmg, otherwise you go out of stamina, using HS at 50% stamina is self destruction. Enemy doesnt even have to parry your attacks, she has 1 600ms unblockable that cannot be fainted. Not even a great followup after this, unless there's a wall behind your enemy and your kick somehow land (almost never use it as its always punished). Her kick cost almost the same amount of stamina for her as it drains stamina from your enemy. Some people say kick is guaranted after heavy from hidden stance, well, GOOD LUCK if youre below 90% stamina, INSTANT OoS. Many people also argue how safe is hidden stance, with spam meta become true its so situational, so risky to use, so uneffective against most of the roster its often doing more damage to its owner than its worth. Her tracking is so terrible everything can be back dodged or side dodge+gb. Versitale retreats, how thats supposed to work, swift recoil is nearly useless and it rather have it deleted. It has no iframes, you eat every followup giving your enemy free damage. In dominion it shows even worse when you swift recoil by mistake cause you accidentaly blocked an attack. One more thing about swift recoil, you lose your stamina TWICE, WTF? First time you loose 10% stamina on use, second 10% when you land. There are hundread threads where people explain whats wrong with her. Nobushi is no different than lawbringer, he got shove on block atleast, almost always a wallsplat from any parry and tons of hp. Nobushi became a garbage support, almost everyone plays that role better

Szalej.
01-24-2019, 01:44 PM
http://static2.ubi.com/comdevs/S7_1v1_WinRate.png
44% win ratio, even below shugoki and lawbringer. I think its self explaining. Shes S-Tier in dominion mostly because of shaman and minion cleaning abilities. Not because of her moveset. On paper everything seems to be briliant, in reality shes barely viable, even in dominion after wu lin release. Noone even plays her anymore, there is almost no nobushi players left who would scream louder for her changes than Lawbro fans

Herbstlicht
01-24-2019, 05:29 PM
State of Nobushi is pitiful. Play the campaign with the old heroes. Feels freakin weird due to slow and limited movesets. Nobushi still carries this bad feeling. Telegraphed chains, bad stamina management, very telegraphed moves that are easily parried make her a very unfun hero to play. Combine this with a lack of usability on her moves due to lack of speed or invulnerability frames - dodge back on block, hidden stance into oops i got hit wtf - and you get her, a hero thats even worse off then shugoki.
I agree, she is viable to some extend in dominion, but as people say, she hardly ever gets played. And the reason is simple. She feels clunky and weak.

TL_pser
01-25-2019, 06:18 AM
here are things that seem broken to me besides her animation

1.During her stamina penalty from using HS, she wont get stamina after blocking/parrying.
And blocking/parrying seems not reducing penalty duration either.
(And warlord's gonna get rid of his penalty from using full block stance.)

To avoid full length stamina penalty, we can:
I.be guard broken during the dodging frame of HS then counter GB
II.do something besides dodging (light,heavy,heavy feint, kick) right after activating HS
If she does a HS, once her dodging frames ends, the duration of stamina penalty after doing a light/heavy/heavy feint will be longer than doing them right after HS.
(btw penalty after doing a kick seem to last the same long no matter how long she's been in HS)

But why? What's the purpose of those mechanics?
Is heavy feint right after HS a move that deserves no penalty?
Is keeping HS after dodging frames offering safer/stronger defensive or offensive options so the penalty should be longer?
Does attacking a little bit later from HS mean the player read worse than attacking right after HS?
Does dodging out of HS (even right after it) offers that much invulnerability so it has to be balanced with some penalty?
Is kicking from HS a stronger option selecting tool that is so different from light and heavy attack so the penalty should be like that?

I don't know the answers for above questions.
But those have been kinda bothering me since I noticed the mechanics.
Hope one day someone in the dev team would explain nobushi's move set designing ideas on Warrior's Den with passion
like what and how they did to the black prior and shogoki.

2.Since nobushi can do a viper's retreat with inputting "move backward"+light attack, it seems like nobushi can not do a real back-stepping light attack from neutral.
But that's not true.
Nobushi can do that with some specific input.

The only way I know that works on PC with keyboard and mouse looks like:
Switch guard then light attack with the input of moving backward DURING a dodge.(doesn't work when dodging forward)
If it's done neither too early (cobra strike) nor too late (viper retreat), you'll end up doing a light while stepping backward.
And it's functionally same with a neutral light, which can feint into HS, follow up with a light or a heavy, kick...etc.

And there's some more but different kind of back-stepping lights on youtube that I don't know how to perform.

As a long-range hero featuring versatile retreats, being able to whiff a light sounds good (at least not a bad news like she cant), right?
But
Again, what is the point of the design?
Doesn't a newbie that gives nobushi a try deserve knowing the whole move set?
Or because it's because nobushi is "hard" to play as, there should always be some mysterious stuff out there?

3.Nobushi can dodge cancel the recovery of viper's retreat only to left or right direction.
Not being able to dodge backward might make sense.
But nobushi cant dodge forward either.

I'm not gonna list more questions because I'm not trying to ruin anyone's mood.
And those questions above should not be seen as asking for a buff/nerf but some feedback about how confused I am.
Answering to those questions are not even necessary to fix the problem.

Thanks for reading and sorry if those stuff ruined your break time.

Lukettle
01-25-2019, 10:31 AM
Agreed with pretty much everything said.
She is the most outdated character of them all. All the mechanics, speed, stamina, telegraphing, etc. Its all pure season 1 material. With shugoki reworked, warlord getting notable buff, she is the worst character in the game now. By far?

Maxime_Qc-
01-25-2019, 03:20 PM
I allways said.that nobu was one of the coolest and one with the most potential of all hero to become really great and technic in term of timing yourself and delaying you attack etc...

But she misses SOMEthings..... and that's why i never really played her... stop in season 5 at rep 5

NHLGoldenKnight
01-26-2019, 08:51 PM
Lol, how different players have different perception. I am noob tier right now and I dropped down really hard last 6 months or so but Nobushi is hero that regulary brings my stats up. And I don't even use her proficiently just poke is enough if I feel like it. It seems that a lot of players have difficulty seeing her attacks plus bleed and long range. She is the only hero that helps me bring down Wu Lin, especially JJ or Shaolin.

Szalej.
01-26-2019, 09:19 PM
Lol, how different players have different perception. I am noob tier right now and I dropped down really hard last 6 months or so but Nobushi is hero that regulary brings my stats up. And I don't even use her proficiently just poke is enough if I feel like it. It seems that a lot of players have difficulty seeing her attacks plus bleed and long range. She is the only hero that helps me bring down Wu Lin, especially JJ or Shaolin.

What reputation are you exactly? Below 30 shes nightmare like a conq. Another thing is that nobody really plays her, so people with less experience have hard time fighting something they never saw. Think you see a raider once per 50 games, you dunno how to react against his attacks. If youre willing to main nobushi i might help you in training arena understanding her strenght and weakness

Solowing_96
01-28-2019, 08:12 AM
All I want for nobushi is remove the Stamina penalty after hidden stance, or hidden stance cost 0 stamina just like jiang jun

Szalej.
01-28-2019, 09:48 PM
Just had a duel against a turtling conqueror who run away entire match and occasionally 2-3 times bash, turned into complete turtle with his zone once he reached corner. I could do absolutely nothing as he easily dodge all my kicks (the only unblockable), he didnt even attempt to parry anything. Against my HS>Heavy (only move that guarantee anything) he spammed zone. If someone tells me again Nobushi doesnt deserve any changes for her offense because Hidden Stance is so overpowered, come, duel me as nobushi.

Rhyza.
01-29-2019, 12:32 AM
All I want for nobushi is remove the Stamina penalty after hidden stance, or hidden stance cost 0 stamina just like jiang jun

Really? Considering the messy state she's in, that's all you want? Granted, I'd like that as well, but there are just so many issues, this just being one of them.

Solowing_96
01-29-2019, 08:17 AM
Really? Considering the messy state she's in, that's all you want? Granted, I'd like that as well, but there are just so many issues, this just being one of them.

it's better than all of our suggestion since year 1 to dev is "ignored" right? :D

but I hope there is improvement for nobushi in the future.

TL_pser
01-30-2019, 04:52 PM
Maybe they just can't leak out things haven't be officially confirmed.
(Although it seems to be forgotten again since there was no more reply.)

Still, it's a sad thing to me that my post in #13 seems ignored by the team.
(and so is another post of mine: )
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1985005-Orochi-s-glitch-feedback-and-some-thoughts

At least I've tried to mention the glitchy stuff working on a character but not the salty balancing stuff comparing to others.
._.

Szalej.
01-30-2019, 07:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGl-yJJnqg0&lc=z224yzs4dzq1wr5hp04t1aokgvqsnujlaschvxnj1i0wbk0 h00410.1548867950354499
Compare this to any nobushi gameplay, legit

Solowing_96
01-31-2019, 03:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGl-yJJnqg0&lc=z224yzs4dzq1wr5hp04t1aokgvqsnujlaschvxnj1i0wbk0 h00410.1548867950354499
Compare this to any nobushi gameplay, legit

LOL, that nobushi 2.0 aka Jiang Jun is on fire. comparing to original nobushi that using turtle fighting style since she lack of offense