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Knight_Raime
01-05-2019, 11:07 AM
On my hunt to find more enjoyment out of this game i've decided to start picking up heros I had little to no experience with in hopes that I can maybe find a new hero to enjoy. I started this journey with Highlander. I've always loved seeing what good people can do with him and like most viking heros he has a very good set of executions. Well fast forward about a week of on and off play and here we are...

Highlander is flawed. Okay okay maybe a bit click bait. Let me try again.
I don't enjoy Highlander's design. Better.

So what is the problem? Well he, like most of the viking faction, provoke a volatile nature. Meaning fights with them usually swing really hard. Either in the way that they completely dumpster you before you have a chance to actually figure out what's going on. Or they fail to fell you so miserably there really wasn't a fight at all. Highlander I believe highlights this the best.

He's VERY match up dependent and by that I mean you either have a dodge attack and make his life hell, or you don't have one and he likely kills you before you figure out how he's playing. Now I don't think having a volatile style of play is inherently awful. If all heros had the same kind of style then hero choice would inevitably feel like picking different colors rather than different characters.

As I mentioned the viking faction is the volatile nature. Where as the Samurai are more of a measured nature. Meaning they more rely on distance and numerous blows. They're more methodical basically. The knights essentially being heros that give and take, attack and defend, trading of the swords. Wu-lin weave both offense and defense together.

Anyway, Highlander in my opinion is flawed conceptually. His two forms don't play nicely with each other and feel like parts of seperate kits rather than one functional whole kit. Defensive form is actually more filled out than offensive form is. But due to the nature of For honor offensive form is the only form you should be in. And due to it's mechanics it's stacked to the high heavens and ironically is a better defense than defensive form is.

Normally this would be where I would give suggestions on how to make the hero better. Maybe even give a rework of my own. But I don't know where to start or what to do with Highlander. So I can't say anything really beyond the notion that I believe he should have a different kit entirely. He's great fun when he works. But like a lot of other heros still in the game this isn't a consistent feeling and isn't really attainable for an average player to have.

I'm off to find the next hero to try. Maybe gladiator or warlord.

Siegfried-Z
01-05-2019, 02:12 PM
On my hunt to find more enjoyment out of this game i've decided to start picking up heros I had little to no experience with in hopes that I can maybe find a new hero to enjoy. I started this journey with Highlander. I've always loved seeing what good people can do with him and like most viking heros he has a very good set of executions. Well fast forward about a week of on and off play and here we are...

Highlander is flawed. Okay okay maybe a bit click bait. Let me try again.
I don't enjoy Highlander's design. Better.

So what is the problem? Well he, like most of the viking faction, provoke a volatile nature. Meaning fights with them usually swing really hard. Either in the way that they completely dumpster you before you have a chance to actually figure out what's going on. Or they fail to fell you so miserably there really wasn't a fight at all. Highlander I believe highlights this the best.

He's VERY match up dependent and by that I mean you either have a dodge attack and make his life hell, or you don't have one and he likely kills you before you figure out how he's playing. Now I don't think having a volatile style of play is inherently awful. If all heros had the same kind of style then hero choice would inevitably feel like picking different colors rather than different characters.

As I mentioned the viking faction is the volatile nature. Where as the Samurai are more of a measured nature. Meaning they more rely on distance and numerous blows. They're more methodical basically. The knights essentially being heros that give and take, attack and defend, trading of the swords. Wu-lin weave both offense and defense together.

Anyway, Highlander in my opinion is flawed conceptually. His two forms don't play nicely with each other and feel like parts of seperate kits rather than one functional whole kit. Defensive form is actually more filled out than offensive form is. But due to the nature of For honor offensive form is the only form you should be in. And due to it's mechanics it's stacked to the high heavens and ironically is a better defense than defensive form is.

Normally this would be where I would give suggestions on how to make the hero better. Maybe even give a rework of my own. But I don't know where to start or what to do with Highlander. So I can't say anything really beyond the notion that I believe he should have a different kit entirely. He's great fun when he works. But like a lot of other heros still in the game this isn't a consistent feeling and isn't really attainable for an average player to have.

I'm off to find the next hero to try. Maybe gladiator or warlord.

I agree HL himself is a kind of 50/50. He can kill you in an instant or you can outplay him as Well depending of the char you're playing .

It is a char such as "all or nothing" or "black or White". No grey with him.

Once mastered, he is a very strong pick un both 1v1 and 4v4 anyway.

I do not enjoy him as Well because i like to play more mobile char such as Valk or Shaolin.

About your next pick , i would say Glad would be more interesting.
Everyone knows WL, outside of his unlock tech and headbutt is kind of weak and he has a very basic kit.
Glad though, has more options and is considered as one of the best char by some and one of the worst by some others.

Would like to hear your mind about him .
I personnaly think he needs some buff . His zone while string is not enough To compensate his weaknesses with the current state of the game, specially in 4v4. That's m'y opinion after 7 reps with the toes hunter.

MrB3NX
01-05-2019, 02:21 PM
i believe highlander is good

some players switch from the kick to the grab by insane speed and then you got it 50% health combo and 100% death if ye got a comrade .

Lil_Porkki
01-05-2019, 05:18 PM
On my hunt to find more enjoyment out of this game i've decided to start picking up heros I had little to no experience with in hopes that I can maybe find a new hero to enjoy. I started this journey with Highlander. I've always loved seeing what good people can do with him and like most viking heros he has a very good set of executions. Well fast forward about a week of on and off play and here we are...

Highlander is flawed. Okay okay maybe a bit click bait. Let me try again.
I don't enjoy Highlander's design. Better.

So what is the problem? Well he, like most of the viking faction, provoke a volatile nature. Meaning fights with them usually swing really hard. Either in the way that they completely dumpster you before you have a chance to actually figure out what's going on. Or they fail to fell you so miserably there really wasn't a fight at all. Highlander I believe highlights this the best.

He's VERY match up dependent and by that I mean you either have a dodge attack and make his life hell, or you don't have one and he likely kills you before you figure out how he's playing. Now I don't think having a volatile style of play is inherently awful. If all heros had the same kind of style then hero choice would inevitably feel like picking different colors rather than different characters.

As I mentioned the viking faction is the volatile nature. Where as the Samurai are more of a measured nature. Meaning they more rely on distance and numerous blows. They're more methodical basically. The knights essentially being heros that give and take, attack and defend, trading of the swords. Wu-lin weave both offense and defense together.

Anyway, Highlander in my opinion is flawed conceptually. His two forms don't play nicely with each other and feel like parts of seperate kits rather than one functional whole kit. Defensive form is actually more filled out than offensive form is. But due to the nature of For honor offensive form is the only form you should be in. And due to it's mechanics it's stacked to the high heavens and ironically is a better defense than defensive form is.

Normally this would be where I would give suggestions on how to make the hero better. Maybe even give a rework of my own. But I don't know where to start or what to do with Highlander. So I can't say anything really beyond the notion that I believe he should have a different kit entirely. He's great fun when he works. But like a lot of other heros still in the game this isn't a consistent feeling and isn't really attainable for an average player to have.

I'm off to find the next hero to try. Maybe gladiator or warlord.

I suggest glad if you like to mindgame and keep your opponent guessing. Im repping him now and he and warden are the two I have played the most. Thing is, dont rely on the zone, use it sparingly and when you are on your opponents face and never ever do it if you think they predict it. Yeah you can feint the second part but if they dodge the shield slap part and you were on their face they will get gb on you

Feints feints feints, best part of glad. High stamina pool and faster regen means that you can afford to throw them alot. Many start to see your pattern be it feint-feint-light or feint-feint-toe stab. But here lies the beauty of glad, mindgames. Do you let the heavy fly? Do you only feint one and poke them with light? Expect to chip away against more wary foes and punish them hard when they trip.
Deflects. If you're not good with them now is the time to start practicing. Glad has prob the best deflect of all assasins, the skewer. 2 ticks and dodge top light is guaranteed. You can use the skewer to wallsplat to get top heavy. His OOS pressure is insane, just dont rely on the toe stab, look up his max punishes from YT
Sorry bout the long post and if it seems like im babbling about, little tired and typing with phone :P

bannex19
01-05-2019, 10:16 PM
Can't wait to see your post on the WL.

I like the highlander but I think the stances thing in this game feels wonky in general.

Ubiflowessence
01-05-2019, 10:44 PM
I haven't seen much around the community on Highlander being flawed, but I thank you for sharing this! How do you think Highlander fairs against other warriors when it comes to attack and defense?

And bannex19, could you share more information on with each warrior's stances in the game?

Knight_Raime
01-06-2019, 03:02 AM
I agree HL himself is a kind of 50/50. He can kill you in an instant or you can outplay him as Well depending of the char you're playing .

It is a char such as "all or nothing" or "black or White". No grey with him.

Once mastered, he is a very strong pick un both 1v1 and 4v4 anyway.

I do not enjoy him as Well because i like to play more mobile char such as Valk or Shaolin.

About your next pick , i would say Glad would be more interesting.
Everyone knows WL, outside of his unlock tech and headbutt is kind of weak and he has a very basic kit.
Glad though, has more options and is considered as one of the best char by some and one of the worst by some others.

Would like to hear your mind about him .
I personnaly think he needs some buff . His zone while string is not enough To compensate his weaknesses with the current state of the game, specially in 4v4. That's m'y opinion after 7 reps with the toes hunter.

I'll have to disagree. Mastering him involves abusing some probably unintended effects from mechanics. Without the use of said exploits highlander is a weak pick in any mode due to how easy his offense can be negated by half the cast. WL is an option for me because i've never had a complete view on him. Hated him from season 1 to 3 due to how oppressive he was. Now I see how poor he is due to being beaten into the ground. Yet I see a lot of good plays on YT from pretty decent people. So I want to give him a go to understand him.

Glad was a recommendation by a lot of people I talk to and because he's more inline with how I like to play i'll probably be picking him up.

Knight_Raime
01-06-2019, 03:05 AM
i believe highlander is good

some players switch from the kick to the grab by insane speed and then you got it 50% health combo and 100% death if ye got a comrade .

Highlander is a pub stomping hero until you understand his kit. Then it entirely comes down to who you're using against him. Kick into toss if it's being feinted into toss immediately dodging on reaction to the kick avoids both. So it doesn't usually work out against competent players. You have to delay the toss soft feint. and you can't over use kick into toss.


I suggest glad if you like to mindgame and keep your opponent guessing. Im repping him now and he and warden are the two I have played the most. Thing is, dont rely on the zone, use it sparingly and when you are on your opponents face and never ever do it if you think they predict it. Yeah you can feint the second part but if they dodge the shield slap part and you were on their face they will get gb on you

Feints feints feints, best part of glad. High stamina pool and faster regen means that you can afford to throw them alot. Many start to see your pattern be it feint-feint-light or feint-feint-toe stab. But here lies the beauty of glad, mindgames. Do you let the heavy fly? Do you only feint one and poke them with light? Expect to chip away against more wary foes and punish them hard when they trip.
Deflects. If you're not good with them now is the time to start practicing. Glad has prob the best deflect of all assasins, the skewer. 2 ticks and dodge top light is guaranteed. You can use the skewer to wallsplat to get top heavy. His OOS pressure is insane, just dont rely on the toe stab, look up his max punishes from YT
Sorry bout the long post and if it seems like im babbling about, little tired and typing with phone :P

Yeah when glad/HL came out I was far more interested in glad. Though this was around the time that I took my first break from the game. So I kind of missed his whole glory season and just never went back to him.

Knight_Raime
01-06-2019, 03:13 AM
Can't wait to see your post on the WL.

I like the highlander but I think the stances thing in this game feels wonky in general.

I really want to like WL. I feel I was too harsh/quick to dismiss him in FH's early months and never gave him a fair shake.
I agree. I think the only hero they've developed that uses a stance that actually is mostly fine is Shaolin's. I feel like it's missing something to make it feel complete though.


I haven't seen much around the community on Highlander being flawed, but I thank you for sharing this! How do you think Highlander fairs against other warriors when it comes to attack and defense?

And bannex19, could you share more information on with each warrior's stances in the game?

If by community you're referring to specifically this forum alone that's not surprising. HL is probably seen as a god tier hero here due to the general players capability of tackling mix ups in game. This opinion is coming more from a high tier perspective, in other words people who actually know the game in and out and realistically can play any hero at a decent level.

As for your question directed at me i'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you're referring to his offense/defensive capabilities then...He has situational offense and absurdly strong defense. Situational offense because his mix ups alone are not difficult to read and negated on reaction via a dodge attack or a backwards light. Both of which highlander has no capability of punishing if the person reacts properly.

And his strong defense comes from offensive form. He has 400ms recovery on his dashes in OF which can be halved via an exploit. He can shorten the visibility of a move/hide his stance switching via an exploit. He can avoid the downside of not being able to parry/cgb by feinting out of it easily due to there being no delay to said actions after doing so. And holding heavy to get into offensive form is incredibly safe because he can use it as an option select against attacks since there is only 100ms of recovery from feinting out of the charge animation that he doesn't even have to complete in order to feint. He doesn't have to complete the feint animation either in order to CGB someone trying to GB him in OF. In short he's incredibly safe due to mechanics at play both intended and from exploits.

chukblok
01-06-2019, 03:30 AM
I am also at a point deciding who to main.
My HL is rep 15
Glad is rep 10
Warden rep 10

I cannot decide. I am heavily influenced by aesthetics and visual/sound of a hero.

However speaking about mechanics only. Without a doubt I do best with gladiator hands down. so many mixup potentials. punch, stab, bleed, side dodge lights, feints...it is a lot of fun. But for some reason its the aesthetic factor that i get tired of with glad. His executions are all boring and I miss the sword “schink” sound you get with warden.

The HL is also fun. And i mean he oozes personality. The claymore is awesome and his voice etc never gets old. But..he is slow cumbersome. and if an opponent can keep you out of OS then its game over. His executions/emotes are great.

The warden is what attracted me to the game to begin with. I am leaning towards him. for some reason I mained the Raider instead of him.

That wasnt helpful. but i base my decisions on aesthetics for the most part. But you should try gladiator. his kit is damn fun to use. And man is it satisfying to stab/bleed someone and either add that punch while they are stuck on the trident or walsplat them for further combos!

I am kind of weird in my selections. I have to be able to relate to my pick a certain way...thats the rpg side of me coming out.

What about cent? or Raider?
or.....save your steel and time for the new knight later this month?

Knight_Raime
01-06-2019, 03:57 AM
Can't wait to see your post on the WL.

I like the highlander but I think the stances thing in this game feels wonky in general.


I haven't seen much around the community on Highlander being flawed, but I thank you for sharing this! How do you think Highlander fairs against other warriors when it comes to attack and defense?

And bannex19, could you share more information on with each warrior's stances in the game?


I am also at a point deciding who to main.
My HL is rep 15
Glad is rep 10
Warden rep 10

I cannot decide. I am heavily influenced by aesthetics and visual/sound of a hero.

However speaking about mechanics only. Without a doubt I do best with gladiator hands down. so many mixup potentials. punch, stab, bleed, side dodge lights, feints...it is a lot of fun. But for some reason its the aesthetic factor that i get tired of with glad. His executions are all boring and I miss the sword “schink” sound you get with warden.

The HL is also fun. And i mean he oozes personality. The claymore is awesome and his voice etc never gets old. But..he is slow cumbersome. and if an opponent can keep you out of OS then its game over. His executions/emotes are great.

The warden is what attracted me to the game to begin with. I am leaning towards him. for some reason I mained the Raider instead of him.

That wasnt helpful. but i base my decisions on aesthetics for the most part. But you should try gladiator. his kit is damn fun to use. And man is it satisfying to stab/bleed someone and either add that punch while they are stuck on the trident or walsplat them for further combos!

I am kind of weird in my selections. I have to be able to relate to my pick a certain way...thats the rpg side of me coming out.

What about cent? or Raider?
or.....save your steel and time for the new knight later this month?

I'd easily pick Warden of the 3. Good middle ground on asthetic and mechanic viability.
I have all the heros and will likely be buying the year 3 season pass at some point.

Centurion was my main for most of year 1 for honor. And I love raider but dropped him due to how poor he plays in duels.
I'm not a fan of glad's asthetic tbh. but he does have some decent executions.

Jazz117Volkov
01-06-2019, 05:59 AM
From what I recall, Gladiator is one of the best high-pressure heroes with a relatively safe heavy. Your feints and punch can tenderize all but the most stubborn of turtles.

Defense is trash though.

Siegfried-Z
01-06-2019, 09:31 AM
I'll have to disagree. Mastering him involves abusing some probably unintended effects from mechanics. Without the use of said exploits highlander is a weak pick in any mode due to how easy his offense can be negated by half the cast. WL is an option for me because i've never had a complete view on him. Hated him from season 1 to 3 due to how oppressive he was. Now I see how poor he is due to being beaten into the ground. Yet I see a lot of good plays on YT from pretty decent people. So I want to give him a go to understand him.

Glad was a recommendation by a lot of people I talk to and because he's more inline with how I like to play i'll probably be picking him up.

But we could say the same for most of the cast then .
Most of the cast have currently a cheesy part in their kit. If you forbid yourself of using these, lot of them lost some potential.
Same for HL of course if you say i would not use his OF dash into kick/lights or kick/grab softfeint.

And this is just the classic trick. I've already met a few HL in this game which were insanly good by mixing properly défensive and offensive stance without doing all the time back light and wait in OF like most of HL do.

And, char having a dodge attacks didn't mean they can avoid his offense. HL has great bait punishes for the too happy dodgers.

For the next pick, yes Glad is a far more interesting char i think.

AramenThePiper
01-06-2019, 04:46 PM
I agree with people who say that Highlander is a black and white character, meaning you either destroy your opponent or you get destroyed by your opponent depending on his kit.
HL is extremely powerful per se, but he has A LOT of hardcounters who straight up say ''lol nope'' to more than half of his options with just a single move. Kensei, Orochi, Tiandi, Shaman and Shaolin are the worst offenders, while any other person with a dodge attack, or even worse, an undodgeable attack can push him back into the corner with ease.

Knight_Raime
01-06-2019, 11:32 PM
But we could say the same for most of the cast then .
Most of the cast have currently a cheesy part in their kit. If you forbid yourself of using these, lot of them lost some potential.
Same for HL of course if you say i would not use his OF dash into kick/lights or kick/grab softfeint.

And this is just the classic trick. I've already met a few HL in this game which were insanly good by mixing properly défensive and offensive stance without doing all the time back light and wait in OF like most of HL do.

And, char having a dodge attacks didn't mean they can avoid his offense. HL has great bait punishes for the too happy dodgers.

For the next pick, yes Glad is a far more interesting char i think.

Warlord/shin only using unlock charge mix ups is cheesy.
Highlander dodging in OF while switching guard to cut his 400ms recovery into 200ms recovery is an exploit.
You should when you have the time look into HL tech to get a better understanding of what I mean..

No it does. HL can't bait someone with an OF mix up to to punish their dodge attack unless the person does their dodge attack on the wrong timing.
Nothing HL does even with mix ups is hard to react to. So messing up your timing shouldn't be a thing. If dodge attacks were not so oppressive to HL then top players would be saying as such.

chukblok
01-07-2019, 10:19 PM
Well ive actually decided to rep my HL. i just enjoy him too much and keep going back.

Knight_Raime
01-08-2019, 01:50 PM
From what I recall, Gladiator is one of the best high-pressure heroes with a relatively safe heavy. Your feints and punch can tenderize all but the most stubborn of turtles.

Defense is trash though.

his heavies are pretty safe yes. a back step heavy also beats out Warden's shoulder charge mix ups pretty much entirely. Blocking is absolutely awful though. it's frustrating.