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View Full Version : The next MUST HAVE controller and how to build it.



Choctaw111
12-22-2008, 08:32 AM
An old squad mate gave me this link today. I just gazed in AWE!
I never thought clickable pits were feasible in a combat flight environment. Startup is one thing, but you just don't have the time to move and click your mouse while in a furball, one hand on the stick and the other on the throttle...until now.
Check this out!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aLkfx6QxLfg&feature=related

EDIT...
Here is the thread that tells you how to build it.
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35202

Choctaw111
12-22-2008, 08:32 AM
An old squad mate gave me this link today. I just gazed in AWE!
I never thought clickable pits were feasible in a combat flight environment. Startup is one thing, but you just don't have the time to move and click your mouse while in a furball, one hand on the stick and the other on the throttle...until now.
Check this out!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aLkfx6QxLfg&feature=related

EDIT...
Here is the thread that tells you how to build it.
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35202

ploughman
12-22-2008, 08:46 AM
Wow, and that guy made it at home too. Brilliant, thanks for the head's up.

F0_Dark_P
12-22-2008, 09:23 AM
Sweet, would not say no to that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

leitmotiv
12-22-2008, 02:52 PM
Man, that's almost eerie because it shatters barriers between virtual and real. This is the future. Amazing.

Uufflakke
12-22-2008, 03:05 PM
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/WOW.jpg

Aaron_GT
12-22-2008, 03:33 PM
I remember the original data glove from about 1993 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I can see this one (with a big monitor else you'll be clicking on 5 things at once) excellent for budding pilots to learn procedures.

ElAurens
12-22-2008, 03:58 PM
I think that pit needs a few hundred more buttons.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

What a clusterfeck of task saturation.

Oh well, some folks find bondage fun as well.

I wonder how he would perform in a scramble while under attack?

The glove is kinda cool. Wonder how much it costs?

Hoenire
12-22-2008, 05:02 PM
Press "I" then go full throttle and take off. I use a Mark I finger for that!

julian265
12-22-2008, 06:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
I think that pit needs a few hundred more buttons.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

What a clusterfeck of task saturation.

Oh well, some folks find bondage fun as well.

I wonder how he would perform in a scramble while under attack?

The glove is kinda cool. Wonder how much it costs? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you think modern planes and even IL2 planes are scramble-able in 30 seconds???

I think the idea of that sim is to give players the option of the full operation of the chopper - it's scalable from arcade to full.

M_Gunz
12-22-2008, 06:20 PM
IRL you don't have to fixate on the panel and take so long finding and moving switches.
They train to do with a glance or two in a fraction of a second what he was taking long seconds to do.
Imagine trying to drive a car and keeping your eyes off the road for so long?
Okay, some people drive like that (cellphone or other attention deficit drivers) but they don't get away with it forever.
Put that into a close combat context where it's lose sight, lose the fight.

WTE_Ibis
12-22-2008, 08:51 PM
Do that every time you respawn, Wonderful, I'm sure it's a pain in the butt in real life so why inflict it on simmers.
Just my opinion.


.

Badsight-
12-22-2008, 09:51 PM
are you kidding ?

you think the simplified pac-man that is IL2 is like operating a real prop fighter ?

this is real simming in the video , not IL2

TX-EcoDragon
12-22-2008, 10:37 PM
Hey guys,

Yes the ramp start procedure is somewhat involved. . . as it should be! Also, that video is not an efficient display of the startup procedure - it's a display of clicking switches.

Black Shark does not limit what you can map to the keyboard or joystick, it simply gives you a fully functioning cockpit in addition to keyboard and HOTAS mappings.

Additionally, don't think that combat tasks are going to require the same time and attention of a complete ramp start procedure. Those procedures are fairly simple since they are intended to be used in combat while what you see in the video is a complete ramp start, plus someone fiddling around clicking the monitor via touch to show the glove in action.

I've read plenty of threads here, and at the yellow board regarding BOB, and I guess my comments are more directed towards those posts than what is here. In any case, comments about why sims shouldn't be realistic is silly. If you as an individual don't think *you* will get benefit out of it, why would that mean that others can't? It's pointless to contest the fact that outside the IL-2 and LockOn world that the bulk of dedicated flight simmers expect to have clickable cockpits, appreciate having them, and will be drawn to a sim that does a good job of detailing systems operations.

Of course it's not entirely "realistic" to have to use a mouse to click a spot on your monitor, but you might be surprised at how quickly you can do it with experience (just like doing it with a glance and a hand movement in the real world). It's a LOT faster than remembering countless keyboard commands, or needing to use triple modes on your HOTAS when all you want to do is reach up and turn a knob! With the touch screen system, it's certain to be even better!

IL-2 is the ONLY sim I've ever used that lacked a clickable cockpit interface. . . as a pilot and veteran simmer of sims with clickable cockpits, I find any sim without a realistic cockpit interface to be missing something very important. . .not only immersion, but functionality and efficiency!

I'm not saying it should be important to everyone. . .but it's not forced on anybody. Heck BlackShark has a "Game Mode" that doesn't mean much to me, but so what? Why would I complain about added functionality that will lead to a sim having a broader appeal to a more diverse audience, from gamers to simmers? For the middle road guys, just press the Windows key and "home" key to start up, or windows+end to shut down.

I don't know anyone that uses sims with clickable cockpits that doesn't appreciate that ability. I would then have to conclude that gamers who do not see the value in this are generally those that have not had sufficient experience in a sim that employs a realistic cockpit interface, and therefore can't really cast judgment on it. . . and I don't understand why they would in the first place. . .but that's just my .02.

ElAurens
12-22-2008, 11:46 PM
I'm not saying that such features should not be present. But they are not for me. I've tried clickable cockpits in FSX and frankly hated them for their lack of precision. Reach for the electric trim and get nav lights or some other function... It just doesn't work for me.

And please, I know how long the startup proceedures are for real warbirds. I have the POH for most of my favortie aircraft in the sim and most of the USAAF produced training films that cover those areas as well. They are very complex machines that have complex proceedures. (Though nothing like a modern military aircraft).

So what?

Just as I (and most players) would never fly for 2 hours one way for a minute or two of action, then fly 2 hours home, I won't bother with a 100% realistic start proceedure. It proves nothing, nor does it add anything to the "air combat" experience, especially the online one. At most I would have a more realistic warm up time. Going to full throttle immediately after startup should have severe consequences for your engine. (In the early days of IL2 it did BTW).

To each his own of course.

Jaws2002
12-22-2008, 11:50 PM
That's way cool.

I just started playing around with Black Shark and this is my first time actually being interested in clickable cockpit and I got to love it.

The game is so complex, just like the helicopter it simulates.
Ka-50 is probably the most capable single seat attack helicopter and the work load is high for a single pilot. If you look at the controls menu you start to scratch your head. Where am i going to map all this things? How am I going to remember the key combinations, HOTAS buttons for all this stuff?

Actually is a lot easier to have all the buttons and switches with labels in front of you and just reach and click them.
I'm not using the full start-up procedure yet because I want to do some shooting too while I get used to the game, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif but I'll probbilly do it really easy with a bit of familiarization with the cockpit.
There are a lot of functions that I don't even bother to map on any controller and I don't even have to worry about what key combination is mapped on the keyboard since the switch is right there in front of me.

I was at first intimidated by this game and the clickable cockpit, but I'm glad I don't have to learn all those key combinations. all you have to remember is in what general area of the pit the switch is and just look for the label.

I love it.....Now only if I could actually maneuver the bloody thing worth two cents. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

But I'm having a blast flying around like a drunk sailor. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Stingray333
12-23-2008, 12:51 AM
I've been playing Black Shark a bit, great game, I can't wait for the fixed wings to be released though, pounding ground targets in a helicopter isn't my cup of tea.

The full ramp start procedure is quite a bit, but there is also a "quick-start" keystroke, and often you start on the ground with the engine already running, so you just have to do a few things then take off. Having the clickable cockpit is great for the startup, because you don't have to remember any keystrokes, especially because most of the things you do in the startup you will only do once: arming weapons, ejector seat, ac/dc power, fuel pumps, governors, etc. You don't mess with any of that stuff in combat, and the things you do want access to during high-work load situations like combat you can map to your HOTAS.

WTE_Ibis
12-23-2008, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
are you kidding ?

you think the simplified pac-man that is IL2 is like operating a real prop fighter ?

this is real simming in the video , not IL2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
-----------------------------------------------

No badsight I didn't say IL2 was like operating a real aircraft.
But most, even those who like the idea, will tire of clickable cockpits quickly IMO especially in the heat of online combat.
If it's your bag go for it m8 but I'm sure you'll be in the minority after a few take offs etc.
I had experience with Falcon4 partly full start up,I thought it great but dumped it pretty damn quickly.
But if it floats your boat more power to you.
Cheers,
Ibis.


.

Esel1964
12-23-2008, 02:19 AM
Very COOL Choctaw,but once you go to the stick/throttle,does it disable itself(to prevent accidental control engagement-or is it mapped to specific buttons only)?

Choctaw111
12-23-2008, 06:33 AM
I am not sure exactly how it works, but there is a tutorial on how to build your own, as well as a software download for Black Shark to get this really cool gadget to work.
I must say that having EVERY function mapped to a button is not very realistic in some ways. I don't know many people here that have every function mapped to a button, there just aren't enough buttons to go around, even for me.
The option to just reach out and "flip" a switch would really simply things a bit. Instead of trying to remember what button to push for a certain function, you just reach out and touch the switch to activate it. I believe this will really add to the immersion factor.

KG26_Alpha
12-23-2008, 06:58 AM
click click click click click click..............................

geezuz

JG52Uther
12-23-2008, 07:31 AM
I like it!And I am one of those people who will fly for an hour or more to get to a target,and then fly an hour or more home.Do it regularly when I fly bombers in il2.When the 1:1 scale 352nd map arrives I will be doing longer flights.B17 from England to Berlin and back anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

arjisme
12-23-2008, 08:32 AM
Whether it's your cup of tea or not, it is a cool project! If you are into hard core simulation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif, this would be a great addition to help with immersion. Someone complained that clickable cockpits didn't work well for them in the past -- tried to click one button, got another, etc. Well this guy is trying to solve that. Kudos to him!

Bearcat99
12-23-2008, 11:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I am not sure exactly how it works, but there is a tutorial on how to build your own, as well as a software download for Black Shark to get this really cool gadget to work.
I must say that having EVERY function mapped to a button is not very realistic in some ways. I don't know many people here that have every function mapped to a button, there just aren't enough buttons to go around, even for me.
The option to just reach out and "flip" a switch would really simply things a bit. Instead of trying to remember what button to push for a certain function, you just reach out and touch the switch to activate it. I believe this will really add to the immersion factor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is really interesting... I have @ 90% of the functions in 46 mapped to a button on my stick. something like that makes clickable pits a bit more immersive. I was never a fan because to me clicking with a mouse just didnt cut it.. To all the nay sayers.. i say.. no need to pi$$ in the beer just because you like scotch... Have your scotch.. and let the beer drinkers enjoy thier suds.. after all.. aren't we all in the same pub having a good time?

ElAurens
12-23-2008, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
aren't we all in the same pub having a good time? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well put Bearcat.

I'm not trying to spoil anyone's fun, really.

Player_43
12-23-2008, 03:29 PM
Is the infra red cam of the wii work with a projector ?

WTE_Galway
12-23-2008, 03:48 PM
One point to note is that all the click click click is taking place while parked solidly on the apron.

Jaws2002
12-23-2008, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
One point to note is that all the click click click is taking place while parked solidly on the apron. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that's when you need more clicking. Up there in the air you have a lot less work to do and a lot of the stuf I have to do in the heat of the combat is maped on my Ch stick and x45 throttle.

Having the kewl helmet mounted sight/TrackIR combo simplifies the work a lot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/ScreenShot_018.jpg

Bo_Nidle
12-24-2008, 10:14 AM
The closest thing I've had to a power glove was the boxing gloves I had to wear to bed as a teenager. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

"Black Shark" looks VERY cool! I'll wait for the disc version though.

**Update** It was too tempting. I downloaded it today. Graphics= amazing! Clickable cockpit= Tres cool! Take off procedures......mummy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif !

Still trying to map my new X52 Pro (Thank you Santa http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif) to it. It recognises the stick its just the throttle thats being a bit of a bugger.

roybaty
01-03-2009, 08:30 PM
I'm still trying to master flying this chopper without looking like I'm drunk http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I got the start-up procedure down to a coupla minutes when I skipped the tests.

Also I got my COUGAR working again (the X52 just didn't have enough buttons)