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Gigi3osei
06-19-2005, 03:00 PM
Hi there,is there a way to get a decent gunsight for the Ki43?
I cannot get rid of that round black thing in the middle of sight http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif cannot see tracers either...it's a nightmare to aim at something...

Gigi3osei
06-19-2005, 03:00 PM
Hi there,is there a way to get a decent gunsight for the Ki43?
I cannot get rid of that round black thing in the middle of sight http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif cannot see tracers either...it's a nightmare to aim at something...

ICDP
06-19-2005, 03:05 PM
Hi Gigi3osei,

Press CTRL+D (reticle dimmer switch) to open the gunsight. The press SHIFT+F1 to look through the sight.

Welcome to the world of Pacific Fighters http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEBillfish
06-19-2005, 03:12 PM
It is actually IMLTHO an awesome sight....

First off, ctrl+d or whatever you have your "sight dimmer" mapped to will rotate the cap out of the way....Next, hit shift+f1 or whatever your "sight view" is mapped to...It's like looking through a sniper scope.

Now you will on occasion lose the target, yet in most cases the Ki-43-I fighter can turn better then anything else so you'll keep your target in the scope.

On Ki-43-II they had the reflector sight....sadly just to fill in the blanks...we don't have those....


FYI to all of you, I learned today Ki-43 as an example would not be spoken Kay-Eye-43.....but Key-43....

Gigi3osei
06-19-2005, 03:12 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Great! It works..many thanks...now I can really fly the "Baby"....

Waldo.Pepper
06-19-2005, 04:45 PM
The sight is awesome. I really like it.

NAFP_supah
06-19-2005, 04:57 PM
Same here man! For me, the Ki-43C is the plane I am most lethal in online against what ever enemies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif My mates in Spitfires and La-7's have come to fear me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
06-19-2005, 06:56 PM
This has been something I was wondering about.

Those Butterfly Flaps, if extended to full "landing" position, lets Ki~43 almost never stall. I am wondering if these sliding flaps really did have "landing" position, or intermediate positions like we see in the sim. When in tight combat, lower flaps fully down (or rather...fully out and back in this case http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). They can jam at high enough speeds, at least in PATCH 3.04.

Fritzofn
06-19-2005, 07:05 PM
nothing beats a good Hayabusa fight...

takeoff speed at 110, 45 degree climb straight from field...

oh, and not to mention the manuverability, it's like watching a modern Sukhoi SU33/35 fighter


i belive my last count on Hayabusa vs Corsair was that i had some 136 online kills on Corsairs, and a loss of only 43 planes :-)

never underestimate a plane :-)

ElAurens
06-19-2005, 09:20 PM
The Ki43 is an excellent bird, especially agianst those foolish enough to turnfight you. I love it when a P40 or other inline engined fighter pulls up into a climb in from of my Ki43b's guns. I put the crosshairs right on the engine and walk the tracers back into the cockpit...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

vocatx
06-19-2005, 09:29 PM
Some of the most fun I've had to date I had in a Ki-43. I kind of crashed a squadron server on Hyperlobby last week (the guys didn't complain after I figured out what I had done). Right before I logged off for the night I got into a fight with at least five F6Fs. We turned and twisted for at least ten minutes before one of them finally shot me down. When it was over, one of the guys actually invited me to join their squad. It was a blast. If I could just get better at using the gunsight, I might be dangerous in the thing.

EnGaurde
06-20-2005, 12:42 AM
once you fly any japanese plane regularly you disregard the ability to survive any hits, so the fragile Ki43 are indeed a joy to fly and fight in.

slow, yes, but flickable and magically maneouverable.

its only achilles heel is that daamn ammo load.

i find taking on steel plated P40s means many, many hits until you can pick deflection properly. After that, literally one burst into the engine area especially the underside of most inline fighters, means a satisfying fire trail.

the sight can feel claustrophobic first up, but when you isolate your target and dont need peripheral vision as you can follow any planes maneouvers with ease, its not an issue. Then, it really is a manner of surgical implanting bullets into any part of the airframe you choose.

that sight nestled over a pair of high velocity flat shooting mgs makes for the very best shot/hit ratio of any plane.

Gigi3osei
06-20-2005, 05:16 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Hey..looks like there's a lotsa people loving those Jap birds,if it only had a couple more Mgs in the wings it would have been a real "ruler",but with limited horsepower you cannot have more than that,same for most of Italian planes,until there could be a decent engine available, (DB601/5)they were good handlers,but poor firepower,pity the Il2 team never made the Macchis (200/202/205) flyable..
they were a joy to fly... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif C'mon Oleg.....

Aero_Shodanjo
06-20-2005, 05:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gigi3osei:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Hey..looks like there's a lotsa people loving those Jap <span class="ev_code_RED">anese</span> birds,if it only had a couple more Mgs in the wings it would have been a real "ruler",but with limited horsepower you cannot have more than that,same for most of Italian planes,until there could be a decent engine available, (DB601/5)they were good handlers,but poor firepower,pity the Il2 team never made the Macchis (200/202/205) flyable..
they were a joy to fly... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif C'mon Oleg..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's Japanese m8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif that three letters are considered improper in here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh and yes, gotta love the Hayabusa. I know I love it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

NAFP_supah
06-20-2005, 08:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aero_Shodanjo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gigi3osei:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Hey..looks like there's a lotsa people loving those Jap <span class="ev_code_RED">anese</span> birds,if it only had a couple more Mgs in the wings it would have been a real "ruler",but with limited horsepower you cannot have more than that,same for most of Italian planes,until there could be a decent engine available, (DB601/5)they were good handlers,but poor firepower,pity the Il2 team never made the Macchis (200/202/205) flyable..
they were a joy to fly... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif C'mon Oleg..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's Japanese m8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif that three letters are considered improper in here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh and yes, gotta love the Hayabusa. I know I love it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wish we could have to version with the more powerfull engine, there even were prototypes with 20 mm cannons! Those would be incredibly cool to have http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If we can have the YP-80 and 109Z why not this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Gigi3osei
06-20-2005, 03:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's Japanese m8 that three letters are considered improper in here </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry did not know that

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If we can have the YP-80 and 109Z why not this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not only those two..what about the "Gotha" jetplane...and 300 versions of Il2....and those other Russian and Japanese rocket planes...there's some obvious bias here,so why not some more "real" planes,they are already modeled,just need the insides,from the 202 can be made the whole Macchi family,basically the same airframe... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

SuperFudd
06-20-2005, 05:29 PM
Stuff "improper". I find that term offensive.
Japanese combatants durring WWII were JAPS.
Are we to not have swatztikas (sp?) on the tails of Stukas??
That was the reality we simulate.

actionhank1786
06-20-2005, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SuperFudd:
Stuff "improper". I find that term offensive.
Japanese combatants durring WWII were JAPS.
Are we to not have swatztikas (sp?) on the tails of Stukas??
That was the reality we simulate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll take the grenade this time.
We dont have Swastikas because this game is sold in lots of countries other than the US, and a few of those countries dont allow the swastika to be in a game that will be sold. If you want the Swastika download a program called MAT manager, you'll love it.
Secondly, they may have been Japs back then, but we've progressed since then, so it's Japanese. It's just simple respect

BPLIzard
06-20-2005, 06:49 PM
Posts like this really makes me stoked. It just means that we're still getting new bloods and that we are very much alive.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SuperFudd
06-20-2005, 11:20 PM
Consider that Millions of us (US) consider it a gross insult to be called a "YANK" but the "Politically Correct" thought police don't give a frap.
And what about the Krauts?
At least Jap is merely short for Japanese and, in my opinion, only applies to Japanese during the early forties.

Freelancer-1
06-20-2005, 11:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SuperFudd:
Consider that Millions of us (US) consider it a gross insult to be called a "YANK" but the "Politically Correct" thought police don't give a frap.
And what about the Krauts?
At least Jap is merely short for Japanese and, in my opinion, only applies to Japanese during the early forties. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LEBillfish
06-21-2005, 01:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SuperFudd:
Consider that Millions of us (US)............ applies to Japanese during the early forties. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thought this was about Ki-43's?

oh well why fight it....So then what you are saying is I can use the word "tard" instead of "Mentally Challenged"....right?

Feathered_IV
06-21-2005, 01:57 AM
OMG! Just got off the ZvsW server PNG map. Ki-43 is the new best! I'm converted now as well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

reverendkrv1972
06-21-2005, 02:57 AM
I love ki43's...it's a cracking little plane to fly,and,as was mentioned earlier as soon as an enemy starts to turn fight...I smile http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I got one of my friends onto ki43,he doesn't fly much else now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Rev

Aero_Shodanjo
06-21-2005, 03:20 AM
All hail the Hayabusa http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/Aero_Shodanjo/ki43clean.jpg

@ http://www.skinnersheaven.com http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Gigi3osei
06-21-2005, 04:44 AM
Nice skin "Aero" I have a 1/72 model just like this... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

nakamura_kenji
06-21-2005, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
OMG! Just got off the ZvsW server PNG map. Ki-43 is the new best! I'm converted now as well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i on server last night very good they not have ki-43-IC anymore p_q

beautiful plane http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/grab0008.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/grab0021.jpg

can only wish ki-43-II for

alert_1
06-21-2005, 06:22 AM
Sweet crate but REAR view is totaly pork...
http://www.donationware.net/~ki43/images/newpics/grab_002-lg.jpg

nakamura_kenji
06-21-2005, 06:28 AM
that ki-43-II we only fly ki-43-I series this one reason wish later version that and it better engine

NAFP_supah
06-21-2005, 06:55 AM
We should start a Ki-43 Squad, join servers on mass and annoy the F. out of ppl http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CKY_86
06-21-2005, 07:12 AM
the oscor resembles an insect, samall anoying & very hard to hit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

irR4tiOn4L
06-21-2005, 08:19 AM
The KI43 is fantastic no doubt - but sllooow. Great dogfighter but kinda poor as an all round fighter. It tends to only lend itself to one style of fighting - its whole purpose and it does is very well. Since i mainly fly offline its not something i use often for those very reasons.

About Japs and all - modern japanese friends of mine call themselves Japs - i dont always want to type out long words like japanese, Australian united states or czechoslovakian (where i hail from).

Frankly assuming that anyone using 'jap' must be some american yank with preconcieved prejudices is prejudice itself - i dont see why one should be payed heed to (by refraining from using the abbreviation 'jap') and the other ignored.

LEBillfish
06-21-2005, 08:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NAFP_supah:
We should start a Ki-43 Squad, join servers on mass and annoy the F. out of ppl http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting you would say that.......

I also fly as Ktu*78th*Sentai or
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Taii Ktu*78th*Hikosentai, 14th Hikodan, 6th Hikoshidan, 4th Kokugun </span>

Now the 78th like all IJA Hikosentai was pretty much supplied with just one type of plane, that being the Type 3 Hien/Ki-61.....However, Over Papua New Guinea there were many Ki-43 units that though having a hard time of it deffinately earned their wings.

If you one day decide you want to start a Ki-43 unit, and one of those of PNG interest you let me know. Perhaps I can help with some information.

Oh and as to slow........I have read numerous reports of where P38 & 47 could NOT take down a single Ki-43...and I mean 5:1 odds....Quite simply the Ki-43 pilot would disregard "ALL" his combat training of attack, attack, attack & not even try to shoot, simply running his course keeping his SA up and at the last second jinking, looping, evading the attack.

Eventually the attacking planes pilots nerves wrecked from stalling once too often too slow, having used up most their ammo and fuel simply broke off....Unable to tag the nimble Ki-43.

Sharkey888
06-21-2005, 08:56 AM
Yank,round-eye,jap,nip,limey..... it's just words-and not very bad at that! If we can poke a little fun of our countries without actual war, thinkof how far we have come.

People should be alot worried about about more pressing matters than stupid "nicknames" and political correctness http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Agree about the Oscar though!!

p-39driver
06-21-2005, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SuperFudd:
Consider that Millions of us (US) consider it a gross insult to be called a "YANK" but the "Politically Correct" thought police don't give a frap.
And what about the Krauts?
At least Jap is merely short for Japanese and, in my opinion, only applies to Japanese during the early forties. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I take no offence to being called a "Yank",better than being called a "Wank".

Pfffffft!Labels....

actionhank1786
06-21-2005, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aero_Shodanjo:
All hail the Hayabusa http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/Aero_Shodanjo/ki43clean.jpg

@ http://www.skinnersheaven.com http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hahaha! nice shameless plug for a skin! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
You're lucky it's such a nice one too! Or i'd bring the dogs out!

SuperFudd
06-21-2005, 11:41 AM
Keying of Ki-43s, go here:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/105010991/139314337IroVcb
That is my brother Ken and his 1/4 scale R/C Hayabusa. It is NOT a kit. It is about 7 feet long and 55 pounds. The engine cost about $800 US.
He has won several nation wide contests with it, as well as his Beufighter and Ki-61.

NAFP_supah
06-21-2005, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Oh and as to slow........I have read numerous reports of where P38 & 47 could NOT take down a single Ki-43...and I mean 5:1 odds....Quite simply the Ki-43 pilot would disregard "ALL" his combat training of attack, attack, attack & not even try to shoot, simply running his course keeping his SA up and at the last second jinking, looping, evading the attack.

Eventually the attacking planes pilots nerves wrecked from stalling once too often too slow, having used up most their ammo and fuel simply broke off....Unable to tag the nimble Ki-43. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehehe sounds like my best tactic. Also, Hide in clouds and peak out ever now and then. Prefferably near a bomber. When enemies come to attack the bomber, dive on them and take them out. They will never know what hit them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Online there usually is someone unwise enough to try and turn with you. Easy kill http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

huggy87
06-21-2005, 04:54 PM
Great flying plane, but with those pea shooters I am lucky to even get one kill. A 17 second ammo load is not sufficient for my lackluster shooting.

Doug_Thompson
06-21-2005, 05:09 PM
I forget the name of the P-38 ace who said the Ki-43 wasn't dangerous if you knew what you were doing but was the type of plane that would send you home talking to yourself. He was in one of those engagements where four members of a flight attacked a Ki-43 and couldn't bring it down. He said the Japense pilot was a master, doing maneuvers he'd only heard about.

I suspect that one reason it's effective on-line is because it's so small. You don't see it coming.

The insect analogy was a good one.

WTE_Warg
06-21-2005, 06:50 PM
I like the Oscar and love its flight model, but am in two minds abouts about the merrits of the telescopic gunsight. While I find the black edge of the ring distracting in following my target, when telescoped to full power, you can actually walk the bullets up down the nose of an enemy aircraft. Even two guns are enough to wreck the inline engine of a P40, Hurricane or Spitfire. Am really suprised in not seeing a flyable Ki43II and III with the reflector sight in the game. There wouldn't have been too many changes from the earlier versions and the Oscar was the workhorse of the Japanese Army Airforce.

Touching on the Japanese (Jap) issue. This is about respect. You do not get respect through rank, title or position, it comes from the heart. RESPECT IS SOMETHING THAT MUST BE EARNED. When I was a boy, there were still a few former POW's around to tell their story and explain what decency and honor was about. Some of them forgave, but all of them never forgot. Now I personally don't consider or intend the term "Jap" to be offensive, the term "nip" was for that. Thankfully thats all in the past. As an Australian (a place where we shorten the names on everything), I'm proud to be called an Aussie and I have met plenty of citizens from the USA and UK that I'd affectionately call "Yank" or "Pommy". They are NOT derogatory terms. Most people in the world are lovely people and the Japanese are no exception. Just don't be too politically correct or thin skinned about things and we'll be right from there.

PS. If you get a chance, read "Samurai" by the late Saburo Sakai. An enlightning perspective.

A.K.Davis
06-21-2005, 07:25 PM
How can you say Nip was offensive, but Jap is not.

Jap = Japanese

Nip = Nipponese

Japanese = Nipponese

Both were used in a racially derogatory manner in propaganda during the war, Jap more so.

Sharkey888
06-22-2005, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Both were used in a racially derogatory manner in propaganda during the war, Jap more so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Americans also like to shorten words it's not necessarily derogatory or disrespectful.

How you can say that "Jap" is disrespectful I just can't figure it out??!!

GI, Hummer, Deuce, Gerry, Jeep, they are all just shortened versions of words-don't read more into it than there is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A.K.Davis
06-22-2005, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sharkey888:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Both were used in a racially derogatory manner in propaganda during the war, Jap more so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Americans also like to shorten words it's not necessarily derogatory or disrespectful.

How you can say that "Jap" is disrespectful I just can't figure it out??!!

GI, Hummer, Deuce, Gerry, Jeep, they are all just shortened versions of words-don't read more into it than there is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How is it disrespectful? Because of the context Jap was used in during the war. Need I start posting images of WWII "dirty Jap" propaganda posters. You would have to be very ignorant of history to deny that "Jap" was a racially charged term during the war, in a way that Kraut, Limey, Yank, etc. were not.

That is why some Japanese find being called Japs offensive. They associate it with imagery and treatment that dehumanized them. They lived through experiences you know nothing about.

EnGaurde
06-22-2005, 09:20 AM
aussie aussie aussie...

i guess there are some that just dont get offended so easily. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

personally i dont call our resident german comms tech or specialist, Jerries, or refer to them as The Huns, bcause i dont want to align them with wartime thinking.

same as i dont call our other specialists Chinks or ****s or joke with workmates that have asian girls about how they got a touch of the yellow fever.

if you dont understand that Jap is derogatory to the Japanese, then you are remarkably ignorant.

to try and defend it, well, just leaves no doubt.

have a care for others, eh?

Sharkey888
06-22-2005, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
You would have to be very ignorant of history to deny that "Jap" was a racially charged term during the war, in a way that Kraut, Limey, Yank, etc. were not.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The war is over. Japan is our friend. I have Japanese friends. Loosen up. I could be "offended" by being called "ignorant" or "remarkably ignorant" because I don't agree with someone, but I'm not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And I'm still not getting how "Jap" is racially charged?? It is the short version of Japanese.

Tater-SW-
06-22-2005, 09:38 AM
AK, without the "dirty" in front of them, they are not offensive, if they were, they wouldn't require "dirty."

Basically, the terms have only become offensive since the war. They are absolutely not intrinsically offensive. They are offensive because they link someone to the Empire of Japan. That is offensive because the Empire of Japan was itself offensive. In that way, being associated with it is offensive if you were NOT associated with it in actual fact (ie: an American of Japanese ancestry should certainly be offended if called a "jap" because it suggests they are complicit in the brutal acts of the Empire of Japan, when they were not.). BTW, if you eliminate "jap" and "nazi" from the lexicon when refering to the war, you instead paint all "Japanese" and "Germans" as the aggressors instead of the more limited "nazi" and "jap." If this PC stuff goes on, I guess we can all simply see "japanese" typed (or the idiotic "jpn") and assume it refers to the someone complicit with the acts of Japan in WW2. If everyone learns to do that substitution, what is the difference? We all know what "frigging" (or "fracking" if you watch BSG, lol) means. It becomes a 1:1 replacement for another word, which removes the reason for replacing it in the first place since the meaning is the same.

I don't think the word itself is offensive if confined to the application to ww2, however. Calling a modern person, or a Japanese-American during the war a "jap" would be offensive, calling Prime Minister Tojo, or an inanimate object (a plane) a "jap" would not be offensive.

This comes up all the time, I have yet to see a single person reference anything that suggests a different etymology for the word "jap."

It's a political correctness issue now--disallowing ANY use of a word because it is offensive in some discrete situations. That's overkill, IMO. Calling someone a "Nazi" is equally as offensive (or more, actually) as calling someone a "jap," yet I doubt people would be as offended about someone talking about the "nazi blitz bomber."

tater

Sharkey888
06-22-2005, 09:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:

It's a political correctness issue now--disallowing ANY use of a word because it is offensive in some discrete situations. tater </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very well said. No one is calling someone a "Jap" to their face. Calling the KI-43 a "Jap" fighter should not offend anyone here. You are after all playing a simulation of a real world conflict where millions of people died-think of how far we have come in 60 years!!!

A.K.Davis
06-22-2005, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sharkey888:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
You would have to be very ignorant of history to deny that "Jap" was a racially charged term during the war, in a way that Kraut, Limey, Yank, etc. were not.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The war is over. Japan is our friend. I have Japanese friends. Loosen up. I could be "offended" by being called "ignorant" or "remarkably ignorant" because I don't agree with someone, but I'm not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And I'm still not getting how "Jap" is racially charged?? It is the short version of Japanese. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, and chink is just a shortened version of Chinese, right?

So if you were sitting in a cafe and a German started talking about "dirty Jews" you would think nothing of that? The war is over, right? The holocaust a thing of the past. The way people were treated, and the language that treatment was framed in means nothing since X number of years have passed?

Personally, there is only one opinion that matters to me: the opinion of Japanese-Americans who were mistreated during the war and abused with derogations of being nothing but "dirty Japs." If they don't like being called Japs, then simple politeness demands that I refrain from using the term. I would only expect the same from others towards myself.

Still blows my mind that people see these forums more as their own living rooms or a local bar than as venues for polite discussion.

A.K.Davis
06-22-2005, 12:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
AK, without the "dirty" in front of them, they are not offensive, if they were, they wouldn't require "dirty."

Basically, the terms have only become offensive since the war. They are absolutely not intrinsically offensive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Certainly the word is not intrinsically offensive, few are, but then neither is [the censored deragatory name for blacks]. They way they were historically used makes them offensive. And regarding the contextual use of the word: unfortunately the context does not escape the historical associations. By your example, it would be bad to call a black person a ******, but okay to refer to soul food as ****** food.

You cannot so simply dodge the past, especially when it comes to decency and politeness. I would be disappointed if the word "Jap" were banned from discourse, but I hope to see every person who uses it casually called out for being rude.

Tater-SW-
06-22-2005, 12:32 PM
The N-word is thrown out constantly if you are ever forced to listen to modern music/culture. The fact that a regional dialect's pronounciation of it has resulted in it meing mispelled to end with an "a" doesn't make it a different word, so I won't accept that argument.

Jap is no different than brit except that a brit is someone from the peace-loving, decnt UK, and a jap is someone from the war-loving, criminal Empire of Japan (1945, RIP). Calling anyone NOT part of the dead japanese empire a jap would indeed be offensive.

I would have no problem with a flight sim that models the Arab-Israeli wars, and forumites discussing "jew planes" vs arab planes. The example you posted above is broken. If you were in a cafe and heard someone talking about "the jews' attack on the egyptian AF" would that be offensive? No.

As for the politeness vs what 1 group thinks, that's pretty much the defintion of PC, with the added caveat that such politic language in no way applies to anyone of european descent, we don't rate that level of thoughtfulness. I know pleny of southerners who would find being called a "yank" offensive, I don't expect it to be expunged.

No one is arguing to call any person on these forums anything offensive, but expunging a good abbrieviation from historical discussions is silly since the reference is clearly to the time of the war.

BTW, I have many printed materials from the actual time of the war, all use "jap" and "nip" and all use the words interchangably with "japanese" or "nipponese." I can type or scan segments, and you will see zero negative connotation at all in context. Nothing about the sentences implies anything negative, and nothing about them changes if you change the words, except they are easier to type in shortened form.

tater

Sharkey888
06-22-2005, 12:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Personally, there is only one opinion that matters to me: the opinion of Japanese-Americans who were mistreated during the war and abused with derogations of being nothing but "dirty Japs."

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What in the world are you talking about!? Nobody called anyone a dirty anything! Calling someone a "Jap" to their face would be rude.

You are posting in a World War 2 flight sim forum and this IS like a bar or living room.

Again referring to the KI-43 as a "jap" aircraft should not offend anyone-especially to someone who plays a WW2 game, fights for evil/repressive regimes simulating death and destruction and posts on a WW2 forum.

VOL_Hans
06-22-2005, 01:12 PM
Perhaps sometimes the word is just that, a word?
We use short phrases for many sides, and I see "Jap" as being little different than "Yank", "Brit", "Aussie", "Kraut", "Red"/"Russkie", or any other short slang term. Although I can find a way to make any of the above insulting. I don't make it a habit of walking around saying "Jap", when Japanese is the correct term, but every now and then when I look over my shoulder and see a plane with red meatballs on the wing trying to kill me, I sometimes can't help calling "Jap fighters!" as a warning to my teammates.

Back on the subject:
I find the Hayabusa to be a VERY responsive little hotrod, although like most of the Japanese planes it feels and looks a little odd to me. The sight it was seems to bother me the most about it, as every time I go to look through it, I feel like I'm going to miss that last warning or a tracer whizzing past my cockpit, and be blown into oblivion while on my attack... Needless to say, the improved version would be more than welcome...

As well as (More importantly) KI-61's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif that fly correctly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif and perhaps a KI-61-II http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gifwith the new HA-140? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif But, I digress, this isn't about my favorite Japanese fighter, soo...
(And the best looking one too, all hail the Hein! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif ...Well, first the Bf-109 but then the KI-61 too! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Anyway, the Hayabusa does make an interesting alternative to the Zero in early war scenarioes. Fun as an aerobatics plane as well!

stathem
06-22-2005, 01:47 PM
Anyway

Ki-43 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I love flying that fella; feels like a racing Mini taking on big saloons (and the Minis often won http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)


Altough I'm finding it a lot harder to snipe stuff now with the extra, erm, twitchiness? sensitivity? in 4.01.

Still working on stick settings, and I really need a new one, but has anyone else fopound this, or is it just the same (as 3.04) for you?

DIRTY-MAC
06-22-2005, 01:57 PM
Try to set up a Ki-43 vs A6M2 server and see what happens!
the Ki-43 eats Zeros for breakfast!

Gigi3osei
06-22-2005, 02:45 PM
Well...I am a bit "amazed"...or should I say "surprised"..?
I started this topic just to have an advice,that came in the second reply,so the scope of this thread was over by then,then discussion carried on because of a lot of people was eager to say they love to fly this bird..I said "Jap birds" without any bad intention,just to shorten it up,it does not mean
nothing to me,as I'm Italian ,and everytime I go in some place abroad (e.g. USA,UK...) I always come up talking with people wich blink an eye at me and say " Mafia..eh..eh.." that's offensive...because there's a purpose behind that,and what i see here...people talking of "ignorance"....c'mon...there is nothing racial or political going around in here,other than for some bigot who posted that in this thread,probably the same bigots whose ancestors dropped on top of the "must be respected now" Japanese, two Atomic bombs killing hundred thousand people 60 years ago, just to test how effective this new weapon would have been.....
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
It would be a good thing to close this topic if some Moderator is looking at.....

nakamura_kenji
06-22-2005, 03:09 PM
i half japanese please talk about plane please what this topic about ^_^.

i person only find ki-43 handle easier near stall than before?

reverendkrv1972
06-22-2005, 04:07 PM
Nakamura,I agree with you,before 4.01 control on the stall was good,It still is,maybe a bit better too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
although ki43 is a little trickier to stop a snaproll after one rotation,it Flicks so fast now I make 2 rols before i recoverhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but this is no bad thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It is a lovely little plane indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rev

Doug_Thompson
06-22-2005, 04:26 PM
Somebody's got to be the naysayer, apparently.

Yes, the Ki-43 is a VERY maneuverable plane with a unique sight that allows sniper shots.

However, a few hits cripple this plane.

The Ki-43 is a particularly challenging target. Nobody can deny that. However, a combination of patience, good deflection shooting and plenty of ammo will bring it down.

I'll fire quick bursts at Ki-43 from longer distances than normal, especially in a P-38 with nose guns, knowing that even a few rounds are likely to kill the pilot, cripple the engine or light the fuel tank.

NAFP_supah
06-22-2005, 04:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
Somebody's got to be the naysayer, apparently.

Yes, the Ki-43 is a VERY maneuverable plane with a unique sight that allows sniper shots.

However, a few hits cripple this plane.

The Ki-43 is a particularly challenging target. Nobody can deny that. However, a combination of patience, good deflection shooting and plenty of ammo will bring it down.

I'll fire quick bursts at Ki-43 from longer distances than normal, especially in a P-38 with nose guns, knowing that even a few rounds are likely to kill the pilot, cripple the engine or light the fuel tank. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shhhhhht dont tell everyone that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It is a very vulnerable bird bit few pilots in MP have the patience for BnZ or to use extend away from you. A lot of spitfire pilots are locked in the thought that their plane can out turn anything. some of them still dont learn it cant after being shot down 5 times http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEBillfish
06-22-2005, 04:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
AK, without the "dirty" in front of them, they are not offensive, if they were, they wouldn't require "dirty." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So then say "bigoted ignorant poor white trash" would not be offensive without the "dirty"?....Kewl, good to know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VOL_Hans
06-22-2005, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
i person only find ki-43 handle easier near stall than before? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope! Just finished playing with it and it seems to be harder to loose control of. Makes an exelent turn fighter. Perhaps the weapons fit is a little bit light, but that can be overcome. The IC seems to stall a bit quicker than the IA or IB. The IB and IC are my favority two versions though.

It's only problem is that it is VERY SLOW!

A.K.Davis
06-22-2005, 07:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sharkey888:
You are posting in a World War 2 flight sim forum and this IS like a bar or living room. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nevermind. That's what makes this conversation pointless. Clearly I have a very different idea of what the tone of discussion should be in a public forum such as this. Y'all go on calling this and that Jap, and I'll use Japanese, or more appropiately Nakajima in this case, and we'll be happy as can be. Okay crackers? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regarding Ki-43, I kinda like that she is so slow. That way I can fight with canopy open and not feel guilty.

NonWonderDog
06-22-2005, 07:17 PM
OK, I'm confused. Was there someone here that was implying that the word "Jew" is offensive?

Would you prefer "follower of Judaism"? All the Jews I know call themselves Jews. It's simpler that way.


In the same vein, what *is* the singular noun for someone from Japan? Is there one? I can say "Englishman," "Italian," "American," etc. and mean one person, but is there anything similar for the Japanese? I think that's really the root of the problem.

EnGaurde
06-22-2005, 07:20 PM
what would be a good mix a la Z v W server ?

ki43 v Buffalo?

ki43 v Hurricane?

ki43 v I-16?

EnGaurde
06-22-2005, 07:27 PM
Japanesian?

Japaneser?

Germanian?

USAnese?

Australianian?

Englishian?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

heywooood
06-22-2005, 09:17 PM
Earthers...they dont even make good pets.

ImpStarDuece
06-22-2005, 10:01 PM
Well, technically its nihonjin.

The Japanese don't really have a plural form in their language, you mostly get clues from the various 'counters' used in the language.

Just call them 'the Japanese', it's pretty simple.

NonWonderDog
06-22-2005, 10:40 PM
Alright, I am an American. More specifically, I am a Michigander. If I lived 10 miles down the road I'd be a Detroiter, too.

Someone from Great Britain is a Briton or Britisher. Or, if they don't like that, an Englishman, Irishman, Welshman, or Scotsman.

Someone from Japan is a .........? Nihonjin? How do you pronounce that? Is there any word for this that doesn't involve knowing Japanese?

That's kind of the problem. The only obvious word is now termed a racial slur. It's not like "Limey" or "Pommy" or "Aussie" or "Yank"; those words are used as an affectionate/insulting alternative to the real word. "Jap" is used here because people don't know what else to say.

Sharkey888
06-22-2005, 10:53 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Okay crackers? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
[QUOTE]
I think you meant "crazy round-eye!" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sapre
06-22-2005, 11:08 PM
I am half Japanese and if someone calls me or someone "Jap" I find that offensive.
So can you please just use the word Japanese instead?
I know no one in this forum is using Jap as a offense, but its simply uncomfortable seeing it.

shinden1974
06-23-2005, 12:05 AM
I probably have more reason to hate japanese than anybody here. They invaded the country I was born in (the Philippines).

Japanese soldiers beat my Grandfather and great grandfather to an inch of their life. They raped my aunt when she was only 11 and left her barely alive. They burned my mothers barrio for helping the americans spot enemy troop movements.

They're not 'japs', and I don't hate them, hell my user name is japanese! My Aunts daughter ended up marrying a japanese vegetable farmer. Her faith got her over the trauma and she blessed the wedding.

Right now Japanese soldiers are serving with my boys in Iraq. I hear they're not allowed to even defend themselves with weapons. They've stuck by us when other countries turned their back, even in the face of kidnapping and blackmail, I salute them.

It's pretty simple trash, If somebody doesn't want to be called something, then don't. I'm not a politically correct guy at all, but racial slurs, imagined or not, is way beyond incorrect. By itself 'Jap' doesn't seem offensive to me...but who cares how I feel, they don't like it, and I will respect that.

It's almost like you have to remind some people the war is over. Nimitz and MacArthur got over the Pacific war pretty fast, and just ask the many american soldiers who came home with Japanese wives.

Oh, and by the way, the guys who dropped the bomb weren't bigots, and they didn't drop it with the main goal of testing the effects...while we are getting over the war maybe we can get over the historical finger-pointing revision game whose sole purpose is to piss on americans because you hate who we vote for especially in an inappropriate place like here.

GerritJ9
06-23-2005, 02:25 AM
The Hayabusa makes excellent target practice for the F2A-2..... but the Buffalo Mk. 1 can't even get close.
With the Hurricane IIB, it is more difficult to combat the Hayabusa, but one short burst from those twelve 0.303s will tear it to shreds. Problem is getting the Ki.43 in your sights first- the Hurricane manoeuvres and accelerates sluggishly.
Conversely, the Ki.43 isn't very effective as a fighter- it has a popgun armament. The A6M2 is in almost every respect a superior fighter.

JG53Frankyboy
06-23-2005, 03:52 AM
Ki43-Ia&b vs Hurricane MkIIb and Buffalo Mk.I on the Singapore map - thats historical.

and than the Ki43 has proplems because of its weak armament and bad rearview.

this rearview is one of the worst modeled on on the whole game ! you feel you would have a wall behind you - bad joke

nakamura_kenji
06-23-2005, 04:11 AM
really it depend pilot, i never have much problem with f2a2 f4f buffalo hurricane unless i numbered out. mainly because evryone seem think outturn you ???0_0???. best escape manouver they make is dive away ki-43 poor diver but i usually escorting betty just stay altitude and wait for them come back up for fight again. I find evil funny tactic because telescope gunsight that chasing enemy plane and not catch you sometime trick him thinking you closer by firing on him which nice and possible because of site. what then happen that he think you right behind so he either roll over dive and escape or stupid one make giggle by turning sharp as possible or climbing steeply allowing me easily catch ^_^

i find a6m2 poorer plane than ki-43 have better arament yes and slightly faster. i find it bad halfway house between ki-43 and ki-61 as not turn well enough to turn fight when out number. not fast enough either to dive away or climb away like ki-61ko can against p40 and p39. ki-61ko turning ability match later model a6m. a6m also not have the acuracy of the ki-43 eitehr because of ki-43 site

UKPsycho
06-23-2005, 04:14 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by NonWonderDog:
Alright, I am an American. More specifically, I am a Michigander. If I lived 10 miles down the road I'd be a Detroiter, too.

Someone from Great Britain is a Briton or <span class="ev_code_RED">Britisher</span>. Or, if they don't like that, an Englishman, Irishman, Welshman, or Scotsman.
QUOTE]

Britisher? Thats a new one on me!

On topic, I get shotdown in anything I fly! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

NonWonderDog
06-23-2005, 10:58 AM
Yeah, stupid sounding word, innit?

I've never heard a Britisher refer to his or herself as such, but the word's used rather frequently in US newspapers.

Hmm. Dictionary.com says it's informal. Maybe it was a bad example.

Feathered_IV
06-23-2005, 09:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what would be a good mix a la Z v W server ?

ki43 v Buffalo?

ki43 v Hurricane?

ki43 v I-16? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also Ki-43 vs P-40B maybe?

Oh for the day when we can have Ki-27 vs I-15/I-16/I-153!