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View Full Version : Strat against top tiers



nf_Straydog
12-12-2018, 12:18 AM
Recently I've been experimenting with some mediocre characters and I have found a strategy that I think all mid/low tier mains should use. If you queue into Conq, Warden, Berserker or Shaolin and you are playing a character that doesn't have some way to cheese them (Shinobi for example,) then just unplug your ethernet cable. You will get ejected to the main menu and you can just fight against players who are playing characters that don't invalidate half the cast.

Alternate idea: Ubisoft, make separate duel matchmaking for top tiers and the rest of the cast. Since you are approaching game balance at an absolutely glacial pace, you might as well implement something that lets your playerbase have fun in the mean time.

Other players: don't get me wrong. I know this is a learn to play issue. Well, more of a learn to stop playing heroes that aren't Berserker issue. It's funny, because I just said **** it and queued Berserker for a weekend and it's just astonishing how easily I steamrolled people at my MMR. People who play top tiers at my MMR are so far behind the people who play mid tiers in terms of skill level that it's unbelievable. I queue into this Nobushi player regularly who has all kinds of fancy tricks, godlike reads and incredible game knowledge. Then I queue into a Warden or Conq and they just kind of throw bashes and get eaten up by me spamming heavy attacks at them as Cent. I am diamond ranked btw. Players who barely understand the game are able to reach this MMR purely by playing top tiers and having a basic playbook of offensive mixups and not knowing a damn thing about the intent of the other player.

Anyway, stop waiting for Ubi to give the low and mid tiers some love and just unplug your ethernet cable when you fight a top tier. Chances are they just picked it because they're tired of queueing into top tiers with their crap characters as well, so they probably don't want to play against your Aramusha or Gladiator or whatever either. Really you're doing both of you a favor.

Normally my threads are pretty pointed, analytical and forgiving, but Ubi doesn't read them anyway, which is why I'm not worried about getting banned for posting this. Really, if I get banned, it's a win win. A win because Ubi finally read one of my threads, and a win because I can stop waking up every day and thinking, "hm, maybe I'll try For Honor again today."

EvoX.
12-12-2018, 03:01 AM
I don't encourage anyone to do that, or to adopt that mentality. Pulling the plug should only be a joke, actually doing it just provides a very lackluster experience and a dulling of one's skill. Going up against a high tier hero with someone who uses him well makes you that much better, regardless of winning or losing.

nf_Straydog
12-12-2018, 07:17 AM
Sure, if your dream is to be a tournament For Honor player, by all means, embrace the meta. In fact, you should probably be playing a top tier yourself. But if you just want to have fun playing a video game, then don't bother playing a mid tier hero vs. a top tier. You simply have to put in way more effort for worse results, and if you are trying to win, it will leave a bad taste in your mouth. It's actually nutty how much better the good characters are in this game than the bad. I don't really care about improving my skill at playing terrible matchups, because I don't intend to ever attempt to compete. And if I did, I would just play Berserker and roll everyone who doesn't play a top tier effortlessly, or lose only to players who are so vastly more skilled than me that the fact that matchmaking would even queue me into them would be a joke.

Vendelkin
12-12-2018, 08:13 AM
Seriously NF_Straydog. Since EvoXTalhante said it so nice I'll just say it again for you.

Actually pulling the plug provides a very lackluster experience and a dulling of ones skill. Going up against a high tier, exploiting, or spammy hero with someone who uses him well will always make you that much better, regardless of winning or losing. Pulling the plug is the go-to move of the weak willed.

Tyrjo
12-12-2018, 08:50 AM
How does Shinobi not have a way to cheese? Out of lock tackle is extremely cheesy and effective. Imagine that, a 50 kg twink tackling a grown man/woman.

papa_joseph1
12-12-2018, 08:57 AM
I can agree that current duel balance is a joke, but please don't do that, yes if the game detects a internet adapter failure whilst the game is still running i don't believe it will give you a penelty, but it's kinda cheesy to do and won't hone your skills at all.

Honestly, just don't play duels, i can't say i've ever had fun in them during my entire time in for honor, it's just meta spam and try hards, you flat out can't play it casually unless you exist in either of those last two camps i mentioned, plus the game's bread and butter is in the 4V4 modes.......that are not very well balanced either, but at least you can play meme heroes like shogoki and law bringer without suffering too much.

Going off on a tangent here, entire roaster needs rework bad.

nf_Straydog
12-12-2018, 06:24 PM
How does Shinobi not have a way to cheese? Out of lock tackle is extremely cheesy and effective. Imagine that, a 50 kg twink tackling a grown man/woman.
Sorry, that was poorly worded. Shinobi was meant to be an exception, as a mid tier hero who actually stands a good chance against top tiers due to his ability to cheese them. I meant "lacks a way to cheese them (like Shinobi can.)"



Seriously NF_Straydog. Since EvoXTalhante said it so nice I'll just say it again for you.

Actually pulling the plug provides a very lackluster experience and a dulling of ones skill. Going up against a high tier, exploiting, or spammy hero with someone who uses him well will always make you that much better, regardless of winning or losing. Pulling the plug is the go-to move of the weak willed.
Repeat it all you want, but it doesn't make it true. Vendelkin, I have 10 years of playing fighting games competitively under my belt. In the first two months of this game's release, I had an 80% win rate in duel, and when I finally decided to play ranked duel, I placed into diamond without that much effort. If you look back through the posts I've made in this forum, you'll find that many of the changes that I recommended were eventually implemented. And yes, I have quit the game in the past, early on, when the turtle meta solidified and it seemed like Ubi had no idea how to crack it. I returned in good faith because I saw the effort they were putting in and the amazing changes they've been implementing.

This meta is nowhere near as polarizing as the initial one, and in addition to the top tiers, there are a handful of high tiers like Shaman, Tiandi, Orochi (opinion me,) Highlander and perhaps a few others that I'm forgetting right now who stand a real chance at beating the meta top dogs.

But if you are playing one of the garbage characters, and then no, it's neither weak-willed or skill-dulling to pull the plug. If you don't want to play Lawbringer vs. Conqueror or Peacekeeper vs. Berserker, then you are absolutely justified in that. Many of these characters stand a decent chance against high and mid tiers and you can have fun. At the end of the day, you are playing a video game, and you should be doing that with a reasonable expectation that it will be fun for you. There is virtually no chance that you will have fun playing a garbage character against a top tier, and any top player will tell you that. It's pointless to refine your skill in these matchups, because you will simply never play them if you want to compete. Period. Nobody who is attending a tournament with prize money on the line will bring Lawbringer if there are even a handful of top Conqueror players in attendance and have any reasonable expectation of winning. It's better to practice your top tier or high tier vs. top tier matchups if you are actually interested in competing.

Other fighting games have the advantage that once the meta solidifies, the non-meta characters become obscure enough that they can win against high tier characters purely due to matchup inexperience. This game does not have that advantage. With the exception of Warden or Orochi, most of the characters are picked fairly evenly in duel.

I'm not trying to tell you that I'm the be all end all of this game or something, or some kind of authority, just want you to know that when I propose unplugging your ethernet cable to avoid playing truly garbage matchups, yes, I am half joking, but I am also half serious. Certain matchups really are that bad, and that pointless to play, Not pointless in the sense of "pointless to try to win," because sometimes you will win, either because you got matched up against someone who is really trash, or because your opponent was half asleep, or maybe you just hard read them 36 times in a row (it takes roughly a dozen openings to kill Conqueror with Peacekeeper.) It's pointless because from a perspective of trying to reasonably win, it's simply frustrating and not enjoyable for there to be such a chasm between the effort/reward trees of the characters in those matchups. If you win, you will have the grim satisfaction of knowing, "wow, this person was so bad that they literally couldn't win a 70-30 matchup in a best of 5." But it isn't very fulfilling. Not to me, and I assume, not to a lot of you. So you should just play the game in the way that you find fun. And if that means pulling the plug until you find a fair matchup, I say go for it.

Vendelkin
12-12-2018, 09:20 PM
At first i had no intention of an afditional reply, but decided i wanted to comment on duels a bit.

I think just in general if you want to have fun with the game; duels are never the best place to be. Duels are the place to train your skill, and fine tune your character matchup skills for better performance in the more fun game modes. I only ever play duel when im trying to see how i match up/compare to others with a specific hero. So i think fundamentally what you are saying does make sense. I just never play duels for fun.

Still i think pulling the plug is a poor choice. Imo if you que for the duel you should stay for the duel.