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View Full Version : 109 ammo/round counter, and the double 109Z.



XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 10:41 PM
I was just reading a book called "Bf109 F-K, development, testing, production", and they have a cool cockpit picture of a 109G with 5 SZKK ammo/round counters, 2 being added for underwing gunpods is my guess. I didn't know they could do this (add additional counters), even though they didn't look as integrated into the panel like the 3 display counter.

This book has alot of very interesting tests/alterations done with the 109, including the double 109Z (top speed was estimated to be 580 km/h at sea level, and 630 km/h at sea level with Jumo 213 engines installed). Fuel tanks were going to be added in place of the second pilot area, and a new rectangular horizontal tail was to be developed. Armament was to be FIVE MK-108's! Or 4 MK-108's and a MK-103! The double 309 was proposed to have 4 MK-108's and 2 MK-103's! That is some serious punch. I'll try to post some of the more interesting finds if I get the chance. I know many of you don't care but I love the 109. Now if I could just read German with all thes charts....

http://www.brewsterbuffalos.org/yoj/pictures/006.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 10:41 PM
I was just reading a book called "Bf109 F-K, development, testing, production", and they have a cool cockpit picture of a 109G with 5 SZKK ammo/round counters, 2 being added for underwing gunpods is my guess. I didn't know they could do this (add additional counters), even though they didn't look as integrated into the panel like the 3 display counter.

This book has alot of very interesting tests/alterations done with the 109, including the double 109Z (top speed was estimated to be 580 km/h at sea level, and 630 km/h at sea level with Jumo 213 engines installed). Fuel tanks were going to be added in place of the second pilot area, and a new rectangular horizontal tail was to be developed. Armament was to be FIVE MK-108's! Or 4 MK-108's and a MK-103! The double 309 was proposed to have 4 MK-108's and 2 MK-103's! That is some serious punch. I'll try to post some of the more interesting finds if I get the chance. I know many of you don't care but I love the 109. Now if I could just read German with all thes charts....

http://www.brewsterbuffalos.org/yoj/pictures/006.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 10:55 PM
If Luftwaffe survived another 2 years with at least 30% vet pilots, it would be REALLY hard to beat the germans in the air

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:00 PM
I don't know about that. Everybody was getting some pretty good planes. I'll still take a Bearcat.

Da Buzz
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Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
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XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:22 PM
Bearcat's ugly. Gimme a Whirlwind or a Tigercat any day (that oughta fan the flames a bit /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ).

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:29 PM
War isn't a beauty contest../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da Buzz
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Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
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XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:36 PM
The 109 was dead for Germany. The Ta152 was the way of the future, and had the war continued it would have become the workhorse of the LW. Thousands of Ta152s were planned for 1945 and 1946.

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XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:43 PM
The 109 would have most cetainly been dead, that's why I'm glad the war ended when it did. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Otherwise we would have had a bunch of Me-262's flying around, talk about ugly.

And if war was a beauty contest, then the P-47 and Hellcat wouldn't even have been allowed to enter the conflict. The Jug would be like the P-51's ugly friend who nobody pays attention to. People who flew the P-47 would be taking one for the team. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.brewsterbuffalos.org/yoj/pictures/006.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:47 PM
http://www.luft46.com/mess/me109z.html

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XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:52 PM
Nice link Secudus.

Just to clarify a few things:

-The 109Z was not planned late war but mid-war.

-I retract my statement from above, the 109 would not have been dead if the war continued another year or two, the 109K-4 was a pretty good machine.

-The P-47 and Hellcat are still ugly.



http://www.brewsterbuffalos.org/yoj/pictures/006.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 12:05 AM
kyrule2 wrote:

Otherwise we would have had a bunch of Me-262's flying around, talk about ugly.

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Some people say my baby's ugly...

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Message Edited on 06/23/0312:07AM by SECUDUS

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 12:59 AM
kyrule2 wrote:


And if war was a beauty contest, then the P-47 and
- Hellcat wouldn't even have been allowed to enter the
- conflict. The Jug would be like the P-51's ugly
- friend who nobody pays attention to.



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


damn good definition, LOL



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www.jzg23.de (http://www.jzg23.de)

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 01:08 AM
Then usual set-up for the wing canons were these (red arrow) on each side of the dash. They flashed like the regular round counters, except they did not give you the actual count like the SZ500 and SZ100.

http://ca.geocities.com/mikiebactor/Dash_Bf109G_KO_03.jpg


http://ca.geocities.com/mikiebactor/myme.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 01:11 AM
I was thinking in the way Go-229 interceptor-Jabo /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif If this plane flew the way they say it should fly, it would be a serious trouble to the allies. Could only be caught during landing /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
And the americans were betting on the .50 mgs when the germans were betting on the mk.108's and 103's, by far a better choice IMO

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 03:18 AM
A Double-Wasp on a Spitfire, that's just wrong. The Americans could even take the Spitfire's classic looks and turn them to crap. It looks like a Spitfire that crashed into a wall and has a swollen nose. Thank God that didn't go intop production or I wouldn't be a Sitfirephilliac anymore. Btw, I'm American and proud, we just made alot of ugly fighters in WWII.

http://www.brewsterbuffalos.org/yoj/pictures/006.jpg


Message Edited on 06/23/0302:20AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 03:47 AM
You guys are dumb, P-47's like a good looking woman with wide, child bearing hips.

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XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 03:50 AM
MOMMY! He called me dumb............./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 05:59 AM
F1NaZZ1 wrote:
- And the americans were betting on the .50 mgs when
- the germans were betting on the mk.108's and 103's,
- by far a better choice IMO

You say it like it was a serious contest. Those wimpy .50 mgs destroyed the Luftwaffe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 11:45 PM
Panzzzz wrote:You say it like it was a serious contest. Those
- wimpy .50 mgs destroyed the Luftwaffe

Although I disagree saying this...,
not the .50 mgs...., their number
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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