View Full Version : Tomahawks/Early P40s

07-03-2007, 07:38 AM

what is the difference between the bunch of early P-40s in this sim and what was the difference between them back in WW2 besides being shipped to and used by British? do you prefer any version over the other? they all seem identical to me, be it performance/FM/DM/guns...

speaking about P40B, C, TomahawkIIa, IIb and Hawk 81A2.

07-03-2007, 07:38 AM

what is the difference between the bunch of early P-40s in this sim and what was the difference between them back in WW2 besides being shipped to and used by British? do you prefer any version over the other? they all seem identical to me, be it performance/FM/DM/guns...

speaking about P40B, C, TomahawkIIa, IIb and Hawk 81A2.

07-03-2007, 08:06 AM
The P-40 is one of my favorite aircraft of all time, so I'll answer. There are actually several differences between them in this game as was the case in real life.

The list of them in game, of course, is this:
Tomahawk Mk.IIb
Tomahawk Mk.IIc

P-40E M-105 Field-mod

The first group of aircraft are armed with two .30 caliber guns in each wing, with a total of 4 wing guns, as well as two .50 caliber Brownings in the nose above the engine. These six guns are very powerful, despite what some may say, but as with all MG's, you have to get up close if you want effect with minimum firepower. The P-40C has the in-game ability to carry bombs, as does the Tomahawk Mk.IIc.

The Tomahawk is just the British export version of the early P-40. The Hawk-81 is basically the same, except this is supposed to be a Tomahawk that was re-routed to China for the AVG "Flying Tigers" instead. It has a different gunsight and default paintscheme. Technically this version should have a higher powered engine, but the tactics are still the same.

The P-40E was the next development of the P-40. Subsequent export versions were re-named "Warhawk" because it was so different from the original plane. It was faster, the chin radiator was enlarged, the tail was elongated, and the armament was improved from four .30 caliber and two .50 caliber guns to six .50 caliber guns, all mounted in the wings. The P-40E M-105 is a Russian version of the P-40E. P-40's were sent to Russia as part of the lend-lease program, but after a while the Russians had trouble maintaining the Allison engines in the P-40's due to harsh weather conditions and used up engine hours. Instead they decided to put Klimov M-105 engines into the P-40. Although it gave it a slightly odd look and the plane was slower, it still was a successful aircraft. The P-40M is an upgrade of the P-40E, which had the Allison engine. This version, however, was built almost entirely for export to allied nations.

In game the P-40's don't perform the same and seem to have a glass jaw, but that doesn't mean their tactics are all that dissimilar. The first rule of air combat anywhere of course applies, but even moreso in the P-40: CLIMB.

Although the P-40 doesn't climb well, climbing high before you see combat could very well save your life in this plane. In the Pacific Theater this thing is fast, an excellent diver, and rolls beautifully. So long as you keep your speed up and don't turn with the Japanese aircraft you'll be able to dominate the skies. Over Europe it's a different story. There your advantages are altitude, roll rate, and turn radius. The P-40 needs the potential energy from altitude to help turn an encounter into a kill, but with the .50's one pass on an aircraft should be absolutely crippling, and it is. If you get into a hotspot with 109's or 190's you should be able to outroll and out turn the 109's, and you'll easily out turn the 190's, but they have you on roll-rate. As for your guns, quick bursts should be enough. Squeeze off your bursts at comfortable range, usually between .05 km and .1 km. Set your convergence for 100 meters, 300 if you're strafing or attacking bombers. By enabling the guns to converge on that point you're maximizing the bullets you get on target. I've had some incredible kills with this plane.

I hope I helped a little. Good luck in the air!

07-03-2007, 08:09 AM
Performance-wise there is no difference between the early P40s in IL-2, however...

P40B: Used by the USAAF

P40C: Same as above but with the ability of carrying bombs

Hawk81A: French ordered P40Bs which werent delivered in time before France's defeat and ended up in SEA fighting the Japanese in the AVG

Tomahawk Mk.IIa: P40B used by the RAF

Tomahawk Mk.IIb: P40C used by the RAF

Edit: Boosher was first http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

07-03-2007, 09:33 AM
P-40 is, and will always be, my favorite airplane. Slow against late war planes, but that's where you can get into turn fights nicely.

Six .50 cals (P-40E) or two .50s and four .30 cals (P-40B-C/Tomahawk/Hawk 81A2) means you can shred stuff nicely. Use your speed (The P-40's main advantage during the early war) against Japanese and early war aircraft, and try to draw your opponents into turn fights with late war planes.

Just practice diving on transports and timing your bursts, it helped me a lot.

Boosher covered the aforementioned points and a lot more a lot more than I can right now.

Basically, treat her right and she'll treat you right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

07-03-2007, 09:56 AM

Small clarification

The H81A-2 was the Curtiss name for the aircraft.

The Model 75 was, when ordered to USAAC spec, the P-36, and to if made to Brit spec, a Mohawk

The Model 81 was, when ordered to USAAC spec, a P-40B or C (the C had extrnal fuel tankage/bomb provisions), and in RAF spec, a Tomahawk. There was no "P-40A"

The Model 87 was, when ordered to USAAF spec, a P-40E. To Brit spec, a Kittyhawk if my memory serves

07-03-2007, 12:48 PM
I like flying the P40, shes an excellent Jabo machine purely for her massive bomb load of 1000lb.

Unfortunatly I have real prolems with 109's if I am not above them (they are usually above me). The 109F/G seems the better dogfighter in a prolonged turning battle which gets down to low speeds.

I always try to use team tactics, dragging them to friendlies or airfields.

07-04-2007, 04:47 AM
thank you all, so if I get this right in game there is no difference between 40B, 81A and TomahawkIIa. 40C and IIb also being identical to eachother but having a bomb/drop tank option, which the former 3 lack. other than that there is no difference right?

interesting, Xiola, i find late P40s better dogfighters than 109s up to G6late save the G2. P40 turns better at all but extremely slow speeds, it also prevails in rolling scissors. F4 and G2 pilots often get cheeky and start horisontal turns with you - which you are better in as long as you do not pull to high aoa and as long as you keep the ball centered. when his slats pop out you know you got him - he just dumped a lot of speed. just don't follow a flat tight turn (you'll stall), and go high yoyo instead to retain energy. problem becomes when a G2 pilot sees what's going on and starts climbing. then you are toast if no friendlies are around. an interesting matchup from many aspects, one of my favourite, together with yak1b/9vsF4/G2/G6.

07-04-2007, 05:07 AM
The P-40A designation was skipped in the initial designation assignments. However, it was applied retroactively to P-40 Ser No 40-326 when it was converted to a camera-carrying photographic reconnaissance model at Bolling Field in March of 1942.

KraljMatjaz, try this link, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher1/p40.html)

07-04-2007, 05:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
Hawk81A: French ordered P40Bs which werent delivered in time before France's defeat and ended up in SEA fighting the Japanese in the AVG. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At a very early stage, the Curtiss P-40 attracted the attention of foreign air forces. On May 10, 1939, the French government ordered 140 export versions of the P-40 for the Armee de l"Air. These aircraft were designated Hawk 81-A1 by the manufacturer. The Hawk 81-A1s were identical to the US P-40 except that they had French instruments and equipment and were equipped with reverse-movement "French-fashion" throttles.

The first of the French-ordered H81-A1s flew on June 6, 1940, and a few were actually completed with French markings. However, before any of their H81-A1s could be delivered, France had surrendered. Britain agreed to take over the entirety of the French order, and gave the H81-A1 the name Tomahawk I in RAF service. RAF serials were AH741/AH840 and AH841/AH880.

Perhaps the best-known aircraft of the Tomahawk series were those supplied to the American Volunteer Group (AVG)--the famous Flying Tigers. In 1941, the Chinese government asked for US military assistance in its fight against the Japanese invaders. President Franklin Roosevelt wanted to help out as much as he could, but almost the entire US aircraft production at that time was dedicated to American and British production. Nevertheless, because of the urgency of the situation, the British agreed to exchange 100 of the Tomahawk IIBs on order for later model Kittyhawk Is.

07-04-2007, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
KraljMatjaz, try this link, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher1/p40.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks for sharing, interesting info. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

07-04-2007, 06:46 PM
A nice and underated plane.A good plane for rookie pilots.Doesn't excel in anything but with no real bad habits, both in combat and in flight.Without nasty surprises , apart from the fact that stalled without warning, but the plane could be recoreved easily.It was the first(if we consider P-36 as part of the same family) pursuit that started the american reputation for building tough birds.
The problem with P-40 was always only one: Because it was considered a stop-gap, it was never improved in favor for planes that never made it into production: P-37,P-46,P-53,P-60,P-62 etc. When the first substantial improvement appeared, the P-40Q, it was too late to keep P-40 into production.
Long-tailed P-40F/L might be better that Spitfire V. I wish we could know ourselves http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

07-04-2007, 07:00 PM
I love P-40B Flying Tiger!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



07-04-2007, 08:03 PM
All you need to know is that the P-40 won the war.

07-04-2007, 08:05 PM
P-40 is Tacticool™.