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Sillius_Sodus
12-07-2009, 08:30 PM
Hi,
I wanted to ask this here because I know some of you have encyclopedic knowledge about WWII aviation so here goes:

What type of ordnance would the AVG have been using in Burma/Thailand? Specifically, what type/weight of bombs would have been fitted to the P-40, if any.

I would like to know in order to build historically accurate missions, within IL2's limitations of course. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Sillius_Sodus
12-07-2009, 08:30 PM
Hi,
I wanted to ask this here because I know some of you have encyclopedic knowledge about WWII aviation so here goes:

What type of ordnance would the AVG have been using in Burma/Thailand? Specifically, what type/weight of bombs would have been fitted to the P-40, if any.

I would like to know in order to build historically accurate missions, within IL2's limitations of course. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

jamesblonde1979
12-07-2009, 09:29 PM
Most likely 500lb centreline-mounted General Purpose. What time-period are you talking about exactly?

Sillius_Sodus
12-07-2009, 10:51 PM
Oh, say, spring 1942,

Ba5tard5word
12-08-2009, 01:15 AM
If you haven't already, check out the "White Sun, Blue Sky" campaign where you fly a Hawk for the Flying Tigers. It's a really good and long campaign and has a few missions that are among the best I've played in Il-2.

Low_Flyer_MkIX
12-08-2009, 03:51 AM
ScarsdaleJack hangs out in the skinner's forum - he's your AVG man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ScarsdaleJack
12-08-2009, 07:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
Hi,
I wanted to ask this here because I know some of you have encyclopedic knowledge about WWII aviation so here goes:

What type of ordnance would the AVG have been using in Burma/Thailand? Specifically, what type/weight of bombs would have been fitted to the P-40, if any.

I would like to know in order to build historically accurate missions, within IL2's limitations of course. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi there.

The bombs the AVG used were of various makes. Mostly they were left behind bombs from CAF stockpiles and were Soviet in origin. Don't forget, the AVG were not really the first US group to fight the Japanese over China; there were American (And German, Italian, and Soviet) airmen fighting over China in 1932

US bombs could possibly have been used by late spring/early summer 1942, but many bigwigs in the US Army didn't want to give Chennault anything at all; the P-40Es the AVG got were a minor miracle of sorts

The fuzes used on the Soviet bombs were considered dangerous by AVG armorers and groundcrew but the Soviet bombs are the ones I see referred to. So in the sim, I would use any small or mid-size Soviet bomb equivalent on the P-40C or the P-40E, since we have to stick US bombs on them

Incidentally, the planes the AVG initially got were not P-40Bs or P-40Cs, the P-40C being the variant that could carry bombs- but the P-40C is extremely similar to the planes the AVG had and it's the only early P-40 varient that can carry bombs in the sim. AVG groundcrew jury-rigged bombshackles and releases on the H81A-2s they were given, and those planes were part of a cancelled RAF order- you can see the areas on the wings and starboard fuselage were RAF roundels were supposed to go, by the 'cut out' areas of camouflage- so they had RAF specified gear, not the 'standard' H81A-2 gear (and since the H81 was an export variant, just what 'standard gear' was is unclear)

In general:

For the AVG's stint in Burma, roughly summer 1941 to March 1942 , I would say: no bombs at all on AVG aircraft.

After they abandoned Rangoon and started North to Magwe, etc, roughly March to April 1942 , I would say: For the P-40C (simulating an H81A-2 with bomb shackles), the smallest bombs possible, since the bombs were foreign-made, they had very primitive tools to mount the bombs, and the bombs were considered old and unreliable. For the P-40E (if the timeline is right for the mission, they got P-40Es roughly April '42), then smallest bombs only for the P-40Es as well- they would have had a hard time muscling a 500lb bomb in place on these planes, just like the old ones

For when all squadrons were in China ( ~May to July 1942 ), I would keep the smallest bombs possible on the P-40Cs used to simulate the bomb-capable H81A-2 (because the bomb shackles were presumably jury-rigged to accept the smaller bombs to begin with), and any bomb at all on the P-40E

(I may have violated these "rules" myself in the past, to make sure a mission target gets a chance at being destroyed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Sillius_Sodus
12-08-2009, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
If you haven't already, check out the "White Sun, Blue Sky" campaign where you fly a Hawk for the Flying Tigers. It's a really good and long campaign and has a few missions that are among the best I've played in Il-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've flown that one and you are right, it's a great campaign.

Sillius_Sodus
12-08-2009, 12:39 PM
Thanks ScarsdaleJack!

I just knew someone would be able to give me the information http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I have "Flying Tigers" by Daniel Ford and have been leafing through it to find some answers as well. So far it pretty much confirms what you say, I can only find references mentioning small bombs being dropped i.e. 35 or 36 pounders, with six slung under the wings of the P-40E.

Thanks again!

ScarsdaleJack
12-08-2009, 02:20 PM
No problem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Daniel Ford has done a lot of research, and his book 'Flying Tigers' is pretty good. Personally I think he relies on official IJA reports too much, as if those reports are beyond all doubt. But he has unearthed a wealth of info

PS

Glad you liked 'white sun, blue sky'. I had a good time making it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I am finally doing the rest of the skin updates, by the way. I've finished four so I have about....36 left to do

ScarsdaleJack
12-08-2009, 02:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
ScarsdaleJack hangs out in the skinner's forum - he's your AVG man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Low-Flyer. How've you been?

Cloyd
12-08-2009, 05:23 PM
HEY, WHAT THE HE11 YOU DOIN, TRYING TO TAKE CREDIT FOR CHUCK_OLDER's, CHRIS_BLAIR's WORK???!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cloyd

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ScarsdaleJack:
Glad you liked 'white sun, blue sky'. I had a good time making it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I am finally doing the rest of the skin updates, by the way. I've finished four so I have about....36 left to do </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ScarsdaleJack
12-08-2009, 07:49 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/HCGcopy.jpg

Low_Flyer_MkIX
12-09-2009, 04:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ScarsdaleJack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
ScarsdaleJack hangs out in the skinner's forum - he's your AVG man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Low-Flyer. How've you been? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not too bad. Good to see an old stager posting here again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif