View Full Version : Simple Balance Thread (Knights)

11-14-2018, 09:23 PM
Hello there,everyone. I realize that there's a pinned thread for balance changes,but I have plenty of ideas for almost every character that I want to make this a separate thread. I'm going to talk about changes I think would be best,even as a starter,for most characters. Keep in mind there are some heroes I barely played,so if you think my changes aren't enough or are just bad please let me know,I would be more than happy to hear your opinion and how you would change some specific heroes for a better game experience. Also,note that this is a simple balance thread,so I won't go on the details like "Change this from 600ms to 400ms" or things like that,I'm just going to say what those characters need.

Personal opinion: I feel like this rework made him much more interesting to play and fight against,he has many tools at his disposal to keep pressure on his opponents without being completely bs. However,there are certain parts of his kit that should be nerfed or removed because those are the moves that keep him in S tier,while he should be A tier for a more balanced experience.

- Shoulder Bash: Cannot feint the Shoulder Bash anymore when fully charged.

Comments: I've seen lots of Warden mains use this tactic which I feel like shouldn't be a thing at all because it is disorienting and quite op. If you wish to use the Charged Shoulder Bash,you have to take responsibility for your decision.

- Valiant Breakthrough: Range nerf to avoid warping animations.

Comments: While I enjoy killing casual Peacekeepers running around the map,I admit that its range is absolutely ridiculous and is in need of a nerf.

Personal opinion: While his rework put him back on track,I feel like the devs did it the wrong way because he's supposed to be a hard hitter,not an harasser like the Berserker,and his Shield Bash alone is so overpowered that it made Conq the most powerful hero in the game.

- Shield Bash: Increased recovery on miss.

Comments: A bash without punishes on a successful dodge is a recipe for disaster.

- Shield Bash: Increased animation startup.

Comments: Conq's Shield Bash is very fast and,even if you manage to dodge on reaction,you still get punished because you were too slow since you can't dodge on reaction. This change should make the SB more reactable while not making it completely useless.

- Heavies: Increased damage to be more consistent with his "Hard Hitter" description.

Comments: Like I said,he needs to be a Hard Hitter,not an Harasser.

- Zone: Increased stamina usage. Stamina will now have a recharge delay after using the zone.

Comments: This change should punish Conqueror mains for spamming that move whenever they're in trouble,thus forcing them to deal with their current situation.

- Attacks: Removed infinite combo. Added new chains: HLL,HH,LLL,LH,LHH. Shoulder Bash is now accessible during these chains.

Comments: Suggestion by SixAxe505. This should make Conqueror a much more interesting character,giving him proper mix ups and making that SB more accessible,thus more useful.

Personal opinion: While the recent gear changes made her way more viable,I think she needs more to her kit because she's painfully predictable.

- Heavies: Increased speed and damage to be on par with the other Assassins while not being too op.

Comments: I feel like her overall damage output is disappointing,you have to struggle so much to be able to deal some decent damage,especially when you're fighting with the minions (unless you use her zone).

- Soft feints: Slightly nerfed the speed of her Heavy/Zone into light bleed to be more reactable,however it is now omnidirectional (like Shaman).

Comments: PK is a character built around bleed,and these changes should make her more viable. Her soft feint into stab will be the same speed as Shaman's Stab,sharing her omnidirectional special ability,thus giving her more options.

- Bleed: Speed buff to be able to kill enemies faster.

Comments: From what I read,most PK mains complain that her bleed is pathetic even though she's based around bleed much like Nobushi (except she's better somehow). After playing her for a bit,I agree with them and I think her whole character should be based about making your opponents run away while you watch them bleed to death.

Personal opinion: Lawbringer is a very interesting character because while his defense is absolutely magnificent with his parry punishes,his offense is very bad. He is one of my mains and I feel like he just needs some changes to make his offense more viable. After all,he's a Counter Attacker and he should act like it.

- Heavies: Speed buff to make them more viable and threatening.
- Shove: Speed buff to make it way more viable. Guaranteed light on a successful Shove. Removed Shove on block.
- Lights: Slightly increased damage and speed.
- Soft feints: Added Zone/Heavy feint into Shove or light attack.
- Zone: Speed buff.
- Parry punishes: Slightly reduced damage of AD MORTEM INIMICUS. Sorry,Lawbro.
- Long arm: Speed buff and can now be feinted. Now it should be a viable option to take enemies off guard.

Comments: This series of changes should be able to change his play style to be a more offensive hero while keeping his Counter Attacker description. His damage output is fine,his parry punish nerf is a needed sacrifice to get those Lawbringer mains out of their shells and encourage them to attack.

Personal opinion: I love him. He is in desperate need of changes and yet nobody cares because Season 2 smh.

- Heavies: Slightly nerfed the speed,but can now be feinted.

Comments: One of the most mind boggling things about Cent was how he was unable to feint,thus making him very predictable. This change should make him more threatening knowing that he can feint his heavies anytime,with his speed as a sacrifice.

- Kick: Speed and tracking buff to punish those who dodge too early.

Comments: His kick is much like Lawbringer's Shove,it needs to be buffed because it is very easy to dodge.

- Charged Pin: Tracking buff to punish those who dodge too early,now has Hyper Armor.

Comments: This change should make his Charged Pin much more threatening while not making it op since it's a pretty easy parry

- Parry punishes: Kick after parry doesn't wallsplat anymore.

Comments: Even though it pains me to write this,it is a necessary change because his wallsplat punish is simply the best in the entire game and I feel like it shouldn't be guaranteed on a successful parry.

- Punch: His punch can now be feinted to deceive your opponents.

Comments: This should catch his opponents off guard for a guaranteed grab since they will dodge on reaction.

- Zone: Can now be feinted after the first strike. Fixed random direction change during the second and third strike (happens a lot when trying to kill minions).

Comments: I always wondered why his zone could not be feinted since it is pretty slow and telegraphed. The bug fix should make the zone way more viable when killing minions.

Personal opinion: Frankly,he's the only hero I barely played in the Knights faction,so I'm not sure about these changes. I feel like he needs more to his kit to make him more unpredictable.

- Zone: Move reverted,now it's hit then bash. If the the first attack hits then bash is guaranteed.

Comments: Glad's zone is the safest move in the entire game,you should have expected a nerf like this one. Not sure,though,I don't play Gladiator much.

- Chains/Soft Feints: Added more chains and soft feints into a light attack/toe stab.

Comments: When I first tried Gladiator,I felt like he didn't have mix ups,thus leading to him being too predictable. More chains should make him more viable,while more soft feints should give him more openings.

And that's all. Please let me know what you think and what you would change. I will talk about Vikings,Samurai and Global Changes later,as well as to how to make Tribute great again.

11-14-2018, 10:00 PM
Unless it was on purpose, you missed gladiator.

As far as the punch feint for cent....Hello No! Fighting him in close quarters with any objects nearby is already one of the worst things in the game. If they get rid of his combo though then I am fine with that. As it stands that would be much to powerful. Increasing the tracks on punch and kick would be a bad idea. It's already a tight enough window as is to dodge it if he is mid combo.

Nerfing speed of shoulder bash will invalidate the move. Removing the ability to cancel a charged one is fine.

Nerfing the speed of conqs shield bash invalidates the move. Increasing recovery time for a missed one is fine. Zone attack nerf should be higher stamina usage and longer stamina recharge delay to disencourage spam of the move. Perhaps they should consider improving his damage overall and giving him a 2 hit chain. Removing his infinite combo. HL, HH, LL, LH. They should allow a shoulder bash to act as chain link 1 and it should be accessible during any step of the above chains.

Slowing peacekeeprs single direction soft feint stab, you guessed it, invalidates the move! They should allow it to be omnidirectional like shaman. Her bleeds could tick for more damage so it finishers quicker, but if you are suggesting adding more damage overall to bleed then I disagree. Her heavies should be buffed. Both speed and damage. 100ms and +5.

Lawbringer could change as you described, but instead of speed of long arm it should be allowed to be feinted. Either softly or hard.

11-14-2018, 10:43 PM
The problem with threads like these is most of the roster need big changes. not just little things that are the equivelant of adjusting a knob.
For the Knight's faction:

conq, lawbringer and centurion all need actual reworks.
pk and glad need buffs.

Warden is the only one of this faction that is fine as is. Sure he could be tweaked, anyone can. But he doesn't need it in any urgent/pressing manner.

11-14-2018, 10:54 PM
Damn,I missed Glad,thanks for reminding me. For Glad I would add more soft feints,more chains and revert that zone to be first hit then bash.
About Cent,if you're fighting him near objects then that is poor positioning since you know he can get the wallsplat combo (much like when you fight Shugoki with a ledge behind you),most people can dodge my kicks and punches just fine because they're slow as hell,not to mention that a missed punch gets you grabbed.
About Warden,I said "slightly nerf" the normal SB (not charged),I don't want the SB to be invalidated because that's one of his main tools and with the new rework he's pretty good.
About Conq,I would nerf the SB speed because he can grab you when you dodge on prediction,leading to a free heavy and another bash,but I agree with the zone and chains changes because it could make him a much more interesting character since he's so boring to play right now.
About PK,I realize that the soft feint stab slight nerf would destroy her,but if it's going to be omnidirectional like Shaman then it has to be the same speed as her stab. Yes,I had my doubts when I said to increase bleed damage,buffing the heavies in both speed and damage should be enough to get her to B tier at least.
About Lawbringer,I agree,his Long Arm should be allowed to be feinted.
Anyway,thanks for your opinion! Perhaps we can all come to a solution for a better game experience.

Knight_Raime,I realize that. Some of these characters need to be completely reworked (Lawbringer and Centurion most importantly),but these changes I proposed could be a good start.