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View Full Version : Second opinion required: 4.04m Stick settings test



Jetbuff
02-26-2006, 01:19 PM
Just finished experimenting with my stick settings. Input routines appear to have definitely changed (more filtering? delayed response? delayed recentering?) requiring much more aggressive settings and a more linear response curve. You could probably get away with 100% across the board now.

Anyway, I would like to see if these work for someone else who experienced 'input lag' with 4.04m too, preferably someone who has CH Pro Pedals and an X-45, Each axis is commented in the line directly above it because those axes and joystick numbers can easily get confused:
[rts_joystick]
; Profile Name:Linear
; Profile Comment:New Semi-linear profile for 4.04m
FF=0
1Y=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
; Axis Comment:Brakes (CH Pedals, left toe input)
1X=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RX=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
; Axis Comment:Elevator Trim (rear X-45 rotary)
1V1=0 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 72 100 10
; Axis Comment:Rudder (CH Pedals)
1RZ=0 75 75 75 75 75 75 81 88 94 100 10
1V=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1RZ1=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
; Axis Comment:Roll
1X1=0 26 50 65 72 78 83 87 91 95 100 10
; Axis Comment:Rudder Trim (front X-45 rotary)
1RX1=0 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 72 100 10
1U=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
; Axis Comment:Pitch
1Y1=0 50 57 60 65 70 75 79 82 86 90 10
; Axis Comment:Throttle
1U1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

Fired up my gunnery track and performed very close to normal. (with allowance for the fact that I'm still getting used to the pedals)

Jetbuff
02-26-2006, 01:19 PM
Just finished experimenting with my stick settings. Input routines appear to have definitely changed (more filtering? delayed response? delayed recentering?) requiring much more aggressive settings and a more linear response curve. You could probably get away with 100% across the board now.

Anyway, I would like to see if these work for someone else who experienced 'input lag' with 4.04m too, preferably someone who has CH Pro Pedals and an X-45, Each axis is commented in the line directly above it because those axes and joystick numbers can easily get confused:
[rts_joystick]
; Profile Name:Linear
; Profile Comment:New Semi-linear profile for 4.04m
FF=0
1Y=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
; Axis Comment:Brakes (CH Pedals, left toe input)
1X=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RX=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
; Axis Comment:Elevator Trim (rear X-45 rotary)
1V1=0 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 72 100 10
; Axis Comment:Rudder (CH Pedals)
1RZ=0 75 75 75 75 75 75 81 88 94 100 10
1V=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1RZ1=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
; Axis Comment:Roll
1X1=0 26 50 65 72 78 83 87 91 95 100 10
; Axis Comment:Rudder Trim (front X-45 rotary)
1RX1=0 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 72 100 10
1U=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
; Axis Comment:Pitch
1Y1=0 50 57 60 65 70 75 79 82 86 90 10
; Axis Comment:Throttle
1U1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

Fired up my gunnery track and performed very close to normal. (with allowance for the fact that I'm still getting used to the pedals)

Wilburnator
02-26-2006, 05:41 PM
I have the pedals but no x45. I actually turned the sensitivity down a small amount. I might have done this without 4.04 anyway, but I wouldn't say my controls feel any slower or less responsive in 4.04.

Alot of people have said 4.04 has changed the flight model greatly. It seems exactly the same to me.

DaimonSyrius
02-26-2006, 06:10 PM
Hi Jetbuff, good post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

That's what I'm using now, and was using those settings in last period of 4.02 and throughout 4.03:
(I use a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force and a X52 for HOTAS. Planning to buy pedals soon.)

1X1=0 20 22 25 28 32 38 48 60 82 100 0 ;Aileron
1Y1=0 20 22 25 28 32 38 48 60 82 100 0 ;Elevator
1RZ1=0 20 22 25 28 32 38 48 60 82 100 10 ;Rudder

However, I like to try and experiment, so I've tried dozens of variations. That one works well for me, though.

-About 'wobbles' in 4.02/4.03: I didn't have chaotic or erratic response of the controls. I could control the aircraft alright (for me), but I had the feeling (yes, my feeling) that I needed to 'wrestle the joystick' to keep everything under control.

-About changes in 4.04: I do feel that the control is better, and that's just because I don't need to wrestle the joystick anymore. The secondary forces are there, nevertheless, and I need to think about what I'm doing, so it's not "point nose/there we go", no "on-rails" for me. If I'm not careful, or if I ham-fist the joystick, the plane's nose will complain and start wandering as I would expect (gyro effect, P-factor, etc. and the whole lot). I don't feel that my input is delayed or filtered, either. As I've explained in some other post, I just feel everything is more 'proportionate' now, more as [I think] it should. So, it's quite ok for me at present time.

Cheers,
S.

NonWonderDog
02-26-2006, 08:35 PM
I just start the curve at 50% and increase it in a concave-down fashion from there. It's worked perfectly for me from 2.0x through to 4.04.

Jetbuff
02-27-2006, 01:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">concave-down fashion from there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry don't follow there, how do you mean?

Daimon, I had some issues with 4.04 initially. I wouldn't call it on rails necessarily. It just seemed like I could never get in-phase with my aircraft. My control effects were constantly lagging my inputs. I'd kick in rudder or pull back on the stick and nothing would happen for a while and then gradually the nose would start to respond. But by that time I had kicked in more rudder/used more elevator. Naturally, this meant that the best solution was actually not to try and be gentle with the controls and yet the plane remained perfectly behaved that way. Thus, compared to my control behaviour in 4.02/03, it felt like 4.04 was a lot more forgiving. After I tweaked my sensitivities up (triggered by chance btw when the CH pedals grabbed ID1 setting all my X45 axes to 100% across the board) I now feel little difference between the 3 patches. Then again, I never had wobbles. So, I guess what I'm saying is, 4.04 probably did not significantly change the FM, but probably finally unified the way in which we interacted with it.

Jetbuff
02-27-2006, 01:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wilburnator:
Alot of people have said 4.04 has changed the flight model greatly. It seems exactly the same to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's possibly true for someone who already had a responsive control setup for 4.02/03. Mine were artificially dampened via stick sensitivities which meant that, initially, I felt a considerable change in the FM. Now, it's back to normal. Then again, tweaking stick settings every patch has been by modus operandi for a while now.

pourshot
02-27-2006, 02:56 AM
I notice most people have the last number in the elevator setting at 100%, but if I use more than about 85% I get massive problems with stalls(even so I hardly ever pull fully back ).

So my question is this can you ever use that much deflection and if so when and at what sort of speeds also what do you fly?

dieg777
02-27-2006, 05:15 AM
Hi I have the same setup and have been constantly updating settings- currently I have these

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 5 10 15 25 35 50 66 80 90 100 0
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 10
1Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
1RZ=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 20
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1X1=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 10
1Y1=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 10
1Z1=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 30
1RZ1=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 30
1X2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RZ2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RX=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

I have just decreased deadband from 30 to 10 so will see if this helps

I had crazyivans settings which I used for a long time and was very comfortable with

Roll: 27 38 52 63 69 75 83 88 93 100
Pitch: 28 44 55 62 70 79 88 93 96 100
Yaw: 29 40 48 57 66 76 86 93 95 100

however someone said it was better to have as close as possible settings across the range . I couldnt get used to all 100s so worked down to get the current range. I also limit full deflection to 95 to aid in preventing stalls.

Ill let you know how I get on with the lowered deadband and my next step would be to try your settings and Ill let you know how these are for me.

Jetbuff
02-27-2006, 12:55 PM
Pourshot, it has to do with how linear your curves are. If the curve is non linear, then you get the last few stick positions 'shooting up' in a steep incline making it really hard to control the plane around critical AoA so you stall.

You have to realize: slider 1 = 10% joystick position, setting it to 10% will give you 10% of 10% or 1% of the full force available. So let's assume you start with 1, 4, 9, 16, 25 for your settings. That means that by slider #5 (50% of your joystick travel) you have only accounted for 12.5% of the full in-game travel (50% of 25%) and you have to make up the last 87.5% in only 50% of your joystick's travel. It's the same reason Dieg was advised to have 'close as possible' settings across the range. Otherwise, the exponential increase in the response curve means that a very small move near the limits of your joystick travel can have a violent impact in-game.

Dieg, I pretty much had exactly your settings (the ones from CrazyIvan) for 4.02/03 and have now had to tweak up the first few sliders for a more responsive center position. Otherwise, my control inputs end up constantly chasing my plane movements.

dieg777
03-04-2006, 02:16 AM
I have been doing a lot of flying recently and Jetbuff was correct- I took off all the filtering except for a little on rudder and moved UP the initial inputs and now feel I am geting closer to how I remember my planes responding. I am going to gradually increase my settings until too sensitive- then back off to get it right

new settings

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 5 10 15 25 35 50 66 80 90 100 0
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 10
1Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
1RZ=0 45 48 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 20
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1X1=0 55 58 62 68 70 72 77 83 88 95 0
1Y1=0 55 58 62 68 70 72 77 83 88 95 0
1Z1=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 0
1RZ1=0 40 45 52 58 65 72 77 83 88 95 0

Jetbuff
03-04-2006, 02:42 AM
Glad it worked out for you Dieg! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I've experimented with my stick settings and I can reproduce the weird on-rails feeling quite easily by going back to my stick settings for 4.02/3. Between Dieg's confirmation and those of my squad-mates I'm now 100% sure something changed. I wonder though, what precisely was changed?