View Full Version : The problem with Bots

11-05-2018, 01:12 AM
Bots have alot of issues tied to them, but I am going to focus specifically on combat lvl 2-3. When playing arcade or even being matched against one in a duel/breach/wherever really. The issue that bots represent is the ability to respond to moves that players use that are generally un-reactable. Shaolin top lights, Nuxia follow up lights, Feints...etc.

Most times with Nuxia if you land the first light, you land the follow up one due to the nature of the move against players. If it does get blocked or parried then you and they know that it was lucky, or some serious skill. Even that being the case, the ability to do it all the time and especially back to back is nigh on impossible for real players. This applies to all 400ms attacks. The Bots however, block, parry, and deflect, these moves as they see fit, which leads to incredibly low damage whenever you do get a chance to attack. This is inconsistent with actual players and needs to be changed.

When people go OOS, they are very prone to pressure, Feints, and all manners of chicanery. When bots go OOS, they go full impregnable turtle mode. Feint gb's, mix-ups, whatever simply don't work. This is inconsistent with actual players and needs to be changed.

When a player pops revenge, in the same manner as the oos section above, the enemies are shook and get really defensive and make mistakes, when it's vs bots they go full turtle when you attack and still attack you without fear of your current state.

Bots need to be brought more in line with players when brought against high "pressure" scenarios. Everytime I throw an attack, trap, feint or gb; I feel completely at the mercy of the AI to let it go through or not. I have not felt that in any other fighting game even on the highest difficulty. It feels cheap. Especially when you are on the defensive and the ai soft feints, hard feints, or lets certain moves fly if they know that you have responded to the move or not at the millisecond level. Something players can only predict that you will do or not.

#Balance Arcade #Fix AI

11-05-2018, 01:36 AM
Here's the thing. It's really, really easy to design an AI that can beat a player when it comes to twitch games. Godlike AI's are a piece of cake in terms of both design and implementation. What's really difficult however is designing an AI that can challenge a really good player but still be fallible without being stupid. For example, level 2 bots. When they're OOS they will block absolutely everything. When they're not OOS they will throw heavies in response to your heavies and get hit. Not parry attempts on the same side as your attack, but heavies from a different side. No human would ever do something so stupid and it's really jarring. They also almost always block fast followup lights, even at level 2, yet they will get hit by heavies all the time. The AI is so obviously an AI it's painful.

11-05-2018, 01:59 AM
I have solution make bots impossible to beat by noobs ?? Give new players a chance .

11-05-2018, 03:52 AM
Whether it's hard or not, this is something the developers should figure out and do. I mean wouldn't an artificial learning process be better? For instance let's say the bot keeps track of the recent 3 moves/combos that you do, but forget them in that order as the fight progresses and you do different moves. Therefore if you try the same thing over and over it will never work. In the same sense, at different health values it can prioritize that you may go for fast moves first and therefore respond accordingly while being susceptible to a slow mix-up. Something along these lines. I am not in a position to really think tank this right now. (At work)

11-05-2018, 05:20 AM
I'd rather see a bot destroy rather than always have a negative Kd. If someone leaves the game it for reason it takes time away that needs to be compensated for by the bots skill. If bots were made for their across the board it would be much better. If people are rage quitting on your team it ups the pressure on the enemy team. It would also discourage death balls for fear of rage quits. If you go up against a god tier bot you already know not to engage or wait for backup. When other teammates start to enter the game the playing field would then tilt back the the enemy team with better coordination or skill.

11-05-2018, 11:53 AM
Whether it's hard or not, this is something the developers should figure out and do.

Yeah absolutely they should, it's just a matter of whether or not they can or will.

11-05-2018, 12:07 PM
I think level 3 bots hold their own pretty well. Are you guys wanting an even worse/better ones?
In my experience, the battle shifts immediately when someone DC or ragequit. My own team get filled with level 2 or even worse level 1 bots usually. Someone in the team must be god tier