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View Full Version : Weekly Arcade Exclusive Reward Drop Should be 100% Guaranteed on Clear



Vakris_One
11-04-2018, 11:17 PM
As the title says: every time you clear the Weekly Arcade quest you should be 100% guaranteed to get the exclusive effect for one of the three effect categories - Idle, Execution or Emote. Having it be a completely random roulette wheel spin to decide whether it will even drop after the first clear feels cheap and exploitative. It does not feel rewarding and frankly it's insulting to the player's time and effort spent trying to clear the quest. This is not a casino for gambling after all, this is a video game. The player should be adequately and consistently rewarded for clearing a task/challenge, this is a fundamental and very basic principle of good video game design.

In my case, in order to get the effect for all 3 categories for the hero I wanted to use I soloed the quest a total of 9 times by myself and cleared it in coop twice with a friend. On the 8th time I got the effect to drop for a second time and on the 11th time it finally dropped for the third and final time. That is patently ridiculous in my opinion. You are asking a player to complete a difficult challenge of skill for the mere chance of having a pull on a slot machine, that is not alright. The fact that it is down to pure luck whether you get the exclusive reward to drop is what makes it truly disgusting. Someone could get all the effects in just 3-4 completions but then for someone else it could take 20-30 completions. This is cheap and feels very unsatisfying. If you intended for this content to annoy and frustrate your players because of how cheap it all feels then you have succeeded. If on the other hand you intend for this content to be a satisfying challenge that feels adequately rewarding to the player then you need to go back and rethink your approach not just for the reward drop rate (it should be 100% guaranteed on every clear) but also the viability of the entire roster of heroes vs an outnumbered gank scenario, however I am only giving feedback on the drop rate in this thread.

Ask yourself this; if you're asking the player to take the time and effort and be skilled enough to clear a difficult challenge then why is it ok to not reward the player with the prize for successfully completing this challenge?

DefiledDragon
11-04-2018, 11:33 PM
It's funny. Not disagreeing with you here at all, but I remember the days when the act of playing a video game was supposed to be fun and they didn't have things that players saw as a grind to be overcome in order to unlock a reward. It speaks to how bad Arcade mode actually is that so many are complaining about how tedious it is to play through.

Knight_Raime
11-04-2018, 11:40 PM
It's funny. Not disagreeing with you here at all, but I remember the days when the act of playing a video game was supposed to be fun and they didn't have things that players saw as a grind to be overcome in order to unlock a reward. It speaks to how bad Arcade mode actually is that so many are complaining about how tedious it is to play through.

To be fair though Arcade mode is bad because AI behavior is bad. Not to mention nothing really special about it. it's just a flavor text inbetween each "mission" with a random map segment and the terrible AI. it's a nice gesture for those who like playing against AI instead of players. As it offers comparable gear earning and steel/exp gain. But that's about where the praise for this mode ends.

Soldier_of_Dawn
11-04-2018, 11:45 PM
Yes, the mistake from Duel Tournament is being repeated in Arcade Mode where the drop is not 100% guaranteed. Why repeat the same mistake?

DefiledDragon
11-04-2018, 11:49 PM
To be fair though Arcade mode is bad because AI behavior is bad. Not to mention nothing really special about it. it's just a flavor text inbetween each "mission" with a random map segment and the terrible AI. it's a nice gesture for those who like playing against AI instead of players. As it offers comparable gear earning and steel/exp gain. But that's about where the praise for this mode ends.

Yeah, I have actually played it. The difficulty level is way beyond reasonable at the highest tiers. The lower tiers are an OK substitute for AI grinding XP and gear though.

Knight_Raime
11-04-2018, 11:52 PM
Yeah, I have actually played it. The difficulty level is way beyond reasonable at the highest tiers. The lower tiers are an OK substitute for AI grinding XP and gear though.

I played all the tiers. all seem fine sans the yellow and green ones. Absurdly difficult. I really only play arcade now for those orders like "pla x amount of matches as x hero" or "get x amount of take downs with x faction." as each "mission" counts as a match. so you can complete most of those orders in two runs.

DefiledDragon
11-04-2018, 11:57 PM
I played all the tiers. all seem fine sans the yellow and green ones. Absurdly difficult. I really only play arcade now for those orders like "pla x amount of matches as x hero" or "get x amount of take downs with x faction." as each "mission" counts as a match. so you can complete most of those orders in two runs.

Maybe it's designed for 2 players rather than one. I only ever solo queue because the only two people I know with the game don't play it anymore, but even so, you would have to be 2 extremely good players to compete with any consistency against the AI at the top two tiers of Arcade mode.

Vakris_One
11-05-2018, 12:56 AM
It's funny. Not disagreeing with you here at all, but I remember the days when the act of playing a video game was supposed to be fun and they didn't have things that players saw as a grind to be overcome in order to unlock a reward. It speaks to how bad Arcade mode actually is that so many are complaining about how tedious it is to play through.
I remember in yee olden times I used to replay all the levels in Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven on the hardest difficulty for fun. No rewards to be had, it was just fun for the sake of the challenge and feeling like a badass perfect ninja. Co-op was also a blast even though it was hard as nails to ace without an alarm triggering.

Fast forward to when online multiplayer games started following the model of offering rewards for playing and replaying a level. Without going into an in-depth analysis there's nothing inherently bad about that as long as it's done right. This is the model that Ubisoft are going with so I think they should make the effort to do it well.

The fact that Arcade is pants is because it mistakes "being cheap" for "being challenging" and the AI behaviour is nothing like a real player. It's also heavily geared towards anti-ganking, which only select heroes can effectively deal with. I don't think Ubisoft will be changing Arcade at such a fundamental level so I'll settle for the Weekly reward drops not being RNG as that is a minor change to make but would help make the mode less of a tedious thing to play.


Maybe it's designed for 2 players rather than one. I only ever solo queue because the only two people I know with the game don't play it anymore, but even so, you would have to be 2 extremely good players to compete with any consistency against the AI at the top two tiers of Arcade mode.
It's heavily down to what modifiers you get and what heroes you play it with. With Highlander for example I soloed the Gold tier every time I tried it because the AI always falls for the kick/grab like a lemming. As Aramusha or Centurion for example you're pretty much screwed versus parry bots no matter what.

What I discovered with this weekly challenge is that co-op is actually harder than doing it solo. In co-op you do a lot less damage to the enemy while they do slightly more to you - the artificial difficulty approach yet again; make it more unfair via hidden damage modifiers instead of upping the quality of the AI. Additionally at the final stage with the 3 Shaman it's much more tricky to co-ordinate with a teammate to kill them at the same time than it is to do it solo. Still, it's always more fun in co-op.

DefiledDragon
11-05-2018, 01:31 AM
The fact that Arcade is pants is because it mistakes "being cheap" for "being challenging"

I think that's pretty much nail on the head really. Gamers, at least gamers of my generation, like to be challenged. I know I do, it's why I started playing video games in the first place. As you rightly point out though, cheap isn't challenging, it's just frustrating. As you said, replaying levels in Tenchu was fun because it was challenging and I think that's where Ubi has missed the target here by mistaking cheap with difficult. There's been a lot of feedback about arcade mode though, so who knows, maybe we will see some changes. I'm being extremely optimistic here, but one can always dream.

Knight_Raime
11-05-2018, 01:43 AM
Maybe it's designed for 2 players rather than one. I only ever solo queue because the only two people I know with the game don't play it anymore, but even so, you would have to be 2 extremely good players to compete with any consistency against the AI at the top two tiers of Arcade mode.

I managed to beat gold tier with a friend. But I was back packing as my centurion. He was basically just fodder to distract a bot.

Knight_Raime
11-05-2018, 01:44 AM
I remember in yee olden times I used to replay all the levels in Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven on the hardest difficulty for fun. No rewards to be had, it was just fun for the sake of the challenge and feeling like a badass perfect ninja. Co-op was also a blast even though it was hard as nails to ace without an alarm triggering.

Fast forward to when online multiplayer games started following the model of offering rewards for playing and replaying a level. Without going into an in-depth analysis there's nothing inherently bad about that as long as it's done right. This is the model that Ubisoft are going with so I think they should make the effort to do it well.

The fact that Arcade is pants is because it mistakes "being cheap" for "being challenging" and the AI behaviour is nothing like a real player. It's also heavily geared towards anti-ganking, which only select heroes can effectively deal with. I don't think Ubisoft will be changing Arcade at such a fundamental level so I'll settle for the Weekly reward drops not being RNG as that is a minor change to make but would help make the mode less of a tedious thing to play.


It's heavily down to what modifiers you get and what heroes you play it with. With Highlander for example I soloed the Gold tier every time I tried it because the AI always falls for the kick/grab like a lemming. As Aramusha or Centurion for example you're pretty much screwed versus parry bots no matter what.

What I discovered with this weekly challenge is that co-op is actually harder than doing it solo. In co-op you do a lot less damage to the enemy while they do slightly more to you - the artificial difficulty approach yet again; make it more unfair via hidden damage modifiers instead of upping the quality of the AI. Additionally at the final stage with the 3 Shaman it's much more tricky to co-ordinate with a teammate to kill them at the same time than it is to do it solo. Still, it's always more fun in co-op.

"Centurion for example you're pretty much screwed versus parry bots no matter what."
Centurion screwed
T ^T
don't I know it.

EvoX.
11-05-2018, 01:59 AM
I can't even enter the mode with my Centurion because of that idiotic gear score wall. But I guess this stimulates gear upgrades, which requires... you guessed it, steel. And why is the effect not guaranteed? So you have to play with all the heroes you want to get it, which would require you to upgrade their gear as well, for even more steel.

No, no, no, no, no. Ain't gonna happen, there should be a limit to greed.

This is an insult to people who spent money on this expansion, honestly.

Tyrjo
11-05-2018, 12:02 PM
It needs to be 100% drop rate on teal. Grinding it to get the drops you really want seems kind of boring.

lucyafairytail
11-06-2018, 07:34 AM
I have completed arcade quest 9 times now with Nobushi and only got the effect once! and only for emotes. I was so mad because it turns out I'm assuming you only get it once for each character for one slot either execution/ emote or idle

skarkshark
11-06-2018, 07:54 AM
As you can tell from my title I am not happy with their garbage rewards system. I have just completed the weekly challenge solo FOR THE 24TH TIME and only have the execution effect to show for it. Ubisoft has lost another player due to their incompetence.

Inzzane_79
11-06-2018, 03:46 PM
Yeah I kinda regret throwing 30$ at the screen to buy the expansion.

Vakris_One
11-07-2018, 11:05 PM
I wonder if they'll talk about this in the upcoming Warriors Den?

Ubiflowessence
11-08-2018, 03:45 AM
Thank you all for your feedback! I will pass this feedback on to the team. I'd like to ask, what do you feel you are getting/not getting out of completing the weekly quests, besides a chance of reward? Also, how would you like the structure of weekly quests in Arcade to be going forward?

Vakris_One
11-08-2018, 03:44 PM
Thank you all for your feedback! I will pass this feedback on to the team. I'd like to ask, what do you feel you are getting/not getting out of completing the weekly quests, besides a chance of reward? Also, how would you like the structure of weekly quests in Arcade more to be going forward?
Hey Ubiflowessence, thanks for replying.

Me personally, I'm not getting a feeling of satisfaction from completing the weekly quest. Instead it feels like a tedious kind of grind. This is for 2 reasons:

1) The bot AI doesn't play like a skilled player. It doesn't employ any kind of tactics such as going for max punishes or using controlled bursts of aggression. It plays like a machine that can read my button inputs one minute while throwing out the same combo over and over again like it's stuck on a loop the next. When 2 or 3 bots get together it seems they develope a hive mind and can work as one to keep you stun locked. Ultimately, instead of finding a way to outsmart or outfight them it feels like I'm mostly searching for ways to cheese the bots as well as searching for a way to overcome being cheesed by the bots and the modifiers that they have on.

2) The reward not being guarranteed on a successful clear cheapens the sense of victory and makes the whole process feel like a bit of an empty repetitive grind.

Structure-wise
I don't have a problem with the structure of the weekly quest per say, it's fine for what it is. The key problem in my opinion is that not all the heroes in the roster have an equal chance of fending off a gank nor can the heroes that lack an opener do much against bots that can parry every attack with perfect reactions. The ultimate solution to this of course is to finish balancing the entire roster. Reduce the reliance on 400ms chained light spam and focus instead around openers and mind games - this would require revisiting Orochi's rework in my opinion. But it will lead to more enjoyable fights in PvP for more players and less of a chore vs bots where if you're playing Centurion, Aramusha or Orochi for example then all you have to look forward to is getting parried or waiting for punishes.

Secondly, the whole random chance of a reward for each successful clear after the first one. Having it be a spin on the roulette wheel belittles a player's time and effort the same way winning a ranked tournament and not getting the big prize feels empty, like you have nothing to show for the time you just spent. If the developer's worry is that people will then be able to farm the effect for every character they play and thus every second hero will soon be using this "rare" effect, there is a solution. Make the first 3 clears a guarranteed drop of the reward (if it's an effect) and any subsequent clears after the 3rd time are then random. I think that would be a fair compromise as it allows players to get the full set of effects for one of their favourite heroes without feeling like they're being cheated and it still allows for the effect to remain a rare prize.

Those are my thoughts so far. Thank you kindly for reading.

Smuggler007
11-08-2018, 07:29 PM
In a nutshell, the bots are not regulated quite like the players are forced to with their respective movesets. They just cheat, plain and simple, by automatically parrying, deflecting, dodging, guardbreaking, etc. while recovering 1000% than players can possibly do. Hearing the Kensei panting when out of stamina does not make up for the fact that he or she is recovering at lightning speed and while recovering is able to automatically counter every move you make as a player.

I was under the impression that Arcade mode was designed to be challenging with the use of those positive and negative modifiers alone per tier. Doesn't matter if done solo or co-op as long as the bots and the players are regulated equally. Modifiers should be easy to determine how to make this challenging, like, duh, with Common Quest, player(s) have the positive modifiers up to lvl 3 while bots have negative modifiers or none at all. Just having lvl 1 bot(s) at that tier is a poor substitute. It shouldn't even be based along those lines of lvl 1, 2, or 3 bots. Arcade should be about the modifiers. Introducing negative modifiers for players at tier 2 rarity should be the norm. It makes things interesting, and it sure seems like the devs were doing something right along those lines. By the time a player or players reach tier 5 Legendary, the opposite would be true where player(s) have only negative modifiers or none at all while the bots have positive 3 modifiers in use. Just having lvl 3 bots automatically countering every move the player(s) make is lame. Bare in mind, players have latency to dealing with while bots have none.

Arcade should be fun for all, and not for the few 0.09% on Xbox have managed to achieve. Chew on that data for a byte. ;)

Inzzane_79
11-15-2018, 01:32 PM
And new Players canīt even participate in the weekly quest because of the gear score. I came back to For Honor after a long break and bought the Expansion. Jumped into arcade with a friend. Immediately frustrated because we couldnīt do the weekly because we donīt have that gear score. Ok we thought, we might have to grind a bit. Yeah.......Boy were we wrong on that.....itīs not grinding a bit, itīs grinding A LOT. Basically with a completely new character we would have to Play for like 4 weeks straight to get to that Reputation and that gear score. And we have to do that with ALL characters we want to be able to do the weekly quest. Not gonna happen, sorry.

So, of course we both feel now that it was a waste of 30$

Would be cool if new Players or returning Players could participate in that. Maybe get rid of gear score once and for all? I mean, that score doesnīt really do anything so why have it? With the new perk System just make it that higher Level gear just gives you more perk Points so you still have to grind for those higher Levels to be able to have 3 perks active.

I am working on my Orochi to get to that gear score but I just donīt like playing the same character the whole day so that will probably take me weeks if not months to reach that score (I am rep 5 atm)

chukblok
11-16-2018, 04:29 PM
Agree with OP. Strongly
I have cleared it solo 6 times...still no idle effect drop!!?. im sorry but ubi you MUST change this. I mean the arcade mode is stressful and hard as hell...its so bloody discouraging clearing it to get....a piece if armor i already have...6 times. this is not a mmorpg.

chukblok
11-16-2018, 05:32 PM
so figures after i post i end up getting idle on 7th time.
But Ubi that is just a bit silly. I like arcade. but there has to be more rewards. I feel more rewards in general at legendary level. I know they are pumping out weekly things...but they have started this amazing cosmetic reward system and people are hooked. The rep grind from 10-60 needs something more for rewards. get crackin!! :)