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View Full Version : historical inaccuracy in assasin's creed 2 needs to be addressed for 3rd creed game



ellas_makedonia
06-25-2010, 02:08 AM
Hi assasins creed team,

i was just playing assasin's creed 2 the other day and i found something quite unusual in that when i was unlocking a particular code for the symbol i had found there were two questions with the portrait of Alexander The Great. however instead of having Greece next to his name it wrote Macedonia? i am disappointed in assasin's creed producers as i would have expected better of them due to their sound knowledge of history which they have incorporated into this game. I am from Macedonia northern Greece but i am Greek and this has quite frankly disgusted me personally as my grandfather and great grandfather fought and died during the Balkan wars in 1913 against the slavs, turks and bulgarians in order to help take back the lost lands of Greece which Turkey had control over since 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans. By labeling Alexander The Great as not being Greek nor born in Greece you insult me as well as 20 million Greeks world wide. this is a big deal as you cannot rewrite history and the fact is the TRUTH speaks for itself! that is why i have kindly taken to the time to explain why it is so that you have got it all horribly inaccurate at the assasins creed team.

There is no doupt that ancient Macedonians were Greek. It is thoroughly proved by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be found in history books and museums in Greece and arround the world. The most important archeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978 and it proves beyond any doubt the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. All the findings are characteristic of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the "Vergina sun" the symbol that FYROM attempted to use on its flag initially.

Facts which prove that ancient Macedonians were Greek people:

• Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language
All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language. Take a look at the archaeological discoveries. There is no historic evidence to suggest that the Macedonians were using a different language.

• Macedonians had Greek names
All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.

Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute, alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).
A detailed list of ancient Macedonian names can be found here.

• The regions of ancient Macedonia had Greek names.
The regions which formed ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Most of these names are used in Greece even today. You can see a list of the regions of ancient Macedonia here.

• Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture.
All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples, theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.

• Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.
Macedonians always fought along with the other Greek city-states against enemies from Asia.

• Macedonians took part in the Olympic games.
It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games. For a list of Macedonians who participated in the Olympic Games click here.

• Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.

• Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks.
Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the Greeks. The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in Macedonia. How would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of Greece.

also
Fact #1 “Alexander the Great was Greek”

Alexander’s Greek descent, and in general Argead Greek lineage went unquestioned by ancient Greek and Roman writers, revealing a widely belief in ancient Greek and Roman world (including of course Macedonians themselves), the Argead royal house were Greeks descended from Argos of Peloponnese. The founder of their house belonged to the royal house of Argos, the “Temenidae”, descendants of Temenus, whose ancestor was Heracles, son of Zeus.

Fact #2 ‘Earliest accounts verify the earliest Macedonians as Greeks”

The earliest literary accounts like Hesiodus (700 BCE) identified the earliest Macedonians as part of the greek world thus greek-speakers. Obviously if Macedonians werent Greeks but foreign people to Greeks, they wouldnt be part at all in Hesiodus’ account as Greek. After all its really irrational to have a supposedly ‘non-greek’ people while migrating to rename existing foreign toponymies into Greek, like the renaming from the earliest Macedonians of the original Phrygian place-name ‘Edessa‘ to the Greek ‘Aigae‘.

Fact #3 “Ancient Macedonians considered themselves as Greeks”

The surviving literary and archaeological evidence during Classical and Hellenistic Ages shows clearly that Macedonians considered themselves to be Greek, carriers to spread the Greek language and civilization to Asia while revenging Persians for their “crimes against Macedonia and the rest of Greece”.(

Fact #4 “Ancient Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks”

Ancient Greeks considered Macedonians as Greeks and specifically of Dorian stock. In fact ancient Greek accounts attributed some of the most patriotic Greek sentiments ever expressed to Macedonian rulers (Herodotos), described memories of the Greekness of the Makedones (Hesiodos, Hellanikos, Herodotos), mentioned their participations among Greek troops and folk, membership of Macedonia in the associations of the Greeks, namely the Delphic Amphictyony which had long been an important Panhellenic (Herodotos, Thucydides, Aichines). Hence they all verify the same conclusion. Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks.

Fact #5 “Foreign nations considered Macedonians as Greeks”

The ancient Roman, Persian, Indian, Jewish, Babylonian and Carthagenian testimonies are listing Macedonians among the other Hellenes, speaking the same language and in general Macedonians are portrayed as Hellenes fighting the Barbarians.
Fact #6 “Macedonian names are Greek”

In contrast with all their non-greek neighbours (Illyrians, Thracians, etc) ancient Macedonian names are either Greek or derive from Greek roots in a percentage of over 95%. According to the encyclopaedia Bolsaya Sovetskaya “In 200 names born from Macedonians born before the ascent of Philip II (359b.C.), hardly 5% are of non-greek origin. Non Greek names in small numbers can also be found in other Greek tribes.
We know some names of Gods and Heroes worshiped by the Macedonians. Among them, 39 are either pan-hellenic or worshiped by other Greek tribes, either purely macedonian, but with a Greek etymology [root]. 2 come from names of cities with a non-hellenic root but with a greek termination syllabe 3 are Thracian 1 is Egyptian All of the names of Macedonian Feasts that we know are Greek. Regarding the names of the months, 6 are common with other Greek calendars, and at least two more are also purely Greek. The idea that the Macedonians took the names of the months during their ‘hellenisation’ is out of the question, as in that case they would have taken an integral Greek calendar instead of creating an amalgam of different greek calendars and, more important, they would never invent themselves two Greek names of months. ” All these of course are taking place at a time where the Illyrian and Thracian names have in their vast majority non-greek etymologies.

Fact #7 “Ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect”

According to the eminent linquist, Olivier Masson, writing in 1996 for the “Oxford Classical Dictionary: ‘Macedonian Language”. “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. ‘Ptolemaios’ is attested as early as Homer, ‘Ale3avdros’ occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- (’Alexandra’), ‘Laagos’, then ‘Lagos’, matches the Cyprian ‘Lawagos’, etc. The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like ‘Arridaios’ or ‘Sabattaras’, may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece). Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like ‘Berenika’ for ‘Ferenika’, etc.). Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb ‘opoka’ which is not Thessalian. We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.”

Fact #8 “Alexander’s campaign Pan-Hellenic character”

Alexander the Great launched a Pan-hellenic campaign against Persia and through his conquests spread Hellenism in a vast colonizing wave throughout the Near East and created economically and culturally, a single world stretching from Greece to the Punjab in India with Greek (koine) as lingua franca. He built a network of almost thirty Greek cities throughout the empire, a building program that was expanded by later Hellenistic rulers. These became enclaves of Greek culture. Here gymnasia, baths, and theaters were built. The upper classes spoke koine Greek, wore Greek dress, absorbed Greek learning, adopted Greek customs, and took part in Greek athletics. Ancient sources reports as such and the pan-hellenic character of his campaign were the definitive statements of the Macedonian royalty and nobility.

Fact #9 “Macedonians shared the same religion as the rest of Greeks”

Nowadays historians agree that Macedonians had the religious and cultural features of the rest Hellenic world. Like other Greek regions, regional characteristics have also to be noted especially near the borders.
Its quite interesting the fact that Macedonians also gave these deities the familiar Greek epithets, such as Agoraios, Basileus, Olympios, Hypsistos of Zeus, Basileia of Hera, Soter of Apollo, Hagemona and Soteira of Artemis, Boulaia of Hestia, etc.
The worship of the twelve Olympian gods in Macedonia is undoubted
and it is shown explicitely in the treaty between Philip V and Hannibal of Carthage “`In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO…and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS“.

I believe that in future the team at Assasin's Creed should learn all there is about the history of the images and symbols which they put into the game so as to avoid this happening again. i am sorry to say however that as a result of this i will not be buying the new Assasin's Creed Brotherhood game due to the fact that it insults me and my fellow Greeks.

Regards,
Stav

ellas_makedonia
06-25-2010, 02:08 AM
Hi assasins creed team,

i was just playing assasin's creed 2 the other day and i found something quite unusual in that when i was unlocking a particular code for the symbol i had found there were two questions with the portrait of Alexander The Great. however instead of having Greece next to his name it wrote Macedonia? i am disappointed in assasin's creed producers as i would have expected better of them due to their sound knowledge of history which they have incorporated into this game. I am from Macedonia northern Greece but i am Greek and this has quite frankly disgusted me personally as my grandfather and great grandfather fought and died during the Balkan wars in 1913 against the slavs, turks and bulgarians in order to help take back the lost lands of Greece which Turkey had control over since 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans. By labeling Alexander The Great as not being Greek nor born in Greece you insult me as well as 20 million Greeks world wide. this is a big deal as you cannot rewrite history and the fact is the TRUTH speaks for itself! that is why i have kindly taken to the time to explain why it is so that you have got it all horribly inaccurate at the assasins creed team.

There is no doupt that ancient Macedonians were Greek. It is thoroughly proved by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be found in history books and museums in Greece and arround the world. The most important archeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978 and it proves beyond any doubt the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. All the findings are characteristic of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the "Vergina sun" the symbol that FYROM attempted to use on its flag initially.

Facts which prove that ancient Macedonians were Greek people:

• Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language
All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language. Take a look at the archaeological discoveries. There is no historic evidence to suggest that the Macedonians were using a different language.

• Macedonians had Greek names
All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.

Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute, alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).
A detailed list of ancient Macedonian names can be found here.

• The regions of ancient Macedonia had Greek names.
The regions which formed ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Most of these names are used in Greece even today. You can see a list of the regions of ancient Macedonia here.

• Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture.
All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples, theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.

• Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.
Macedonians always fought along with the other Greek city-states against enemies from Asia.

• Macedonians took part in the Olympic games.
It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games. For a list of Macedonians who participated in the Olympic Games click here.

• Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.

• Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks.
Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the Greeks. The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in Macedonia. How would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of Greece.

also
Fact #1 “Alexander the Great was Greek”

Alexander’s Greek descent, and in general Argead Greek lineage went unquestioned by ancient Greek and Roman writers, revealing a widely belief in ancient Greek and Roman world (including of course Macedonians themselves), the Argead royal house were Greeks descended from Argos of Peloponnese. The founder of their house belonged to the royal house of Argos, the “Temenidae”, descendants of Temenus, whose ancestor was Heracles, son of Zeus.

Fact #2 ‘Earliest accounts verify the earliest Macedonians as Greeks”

The earliest literary accounts like Hesiodus (700 BCE) identified the earliest Macedonians as part of the greek world thus greek-speakers. Obviously if Macedonians werent Greeks but foreign people to Greeks, they wouldnt be part at all in Hesiodus’ account as Greek. After all its really irrational to have a supposedly ‘non-greek’ people while migrating to rename existing foreign toponymies into Greek, like the renaming from the earliest Macedonians of the original Phrygian place-name ‘Edessa‘ to the Greek ‘Aigae‘.

Fact #3 “Ancient Macedonians considered themselves as Greeks”

The surviving literary and archaeological evidence during Classical and Hellenistic Ages shows clearly that Macedonians considered themselves to be Greek, carriers to spread the Greek language and civilization to Asia while revenging Persians for their “crimes against Macedonia and the rest of Greece”.(

Fact #4 “Ancient Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks”

Ancient Greeks considered Macedonians as Greeks and specifically of Dorian stock. In fact ancient Greek accounts attributed some of the most patriotic Greek sentiments ever expressed to Macedonian rulers (Herodotos), described memories of the Greekness of the Makedones (Hesiodos, Hellanikos, Herodotos), mentioned their participations among Greek troops and folk, membership of Macedonia in the associations of the Greeks, namely the Delphic Amphictyony which had long been an important Panhellenic (Herodotos, Thucydides, Aichines). Hence they all verify the same conclusion. Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks.

Fact #5 “Foreign nations considered Macedonians as Greeks”

The ancient Roman, Persian, Indian, Jewish, Babylonian and Carthagenian testimonies are listing Macedonians among the other Hellenes, speaking the same language and in general Macedonians are portrayed as Hellenes fighting the Barbarians.
Fact #6 “Macedonian names are Greek”

In contrast with all their non-greek neighbours (Illyrians, Thracians, etc) ancient Macedonian names are either Greek or derive from Greek roots in a percentage of over 95%. According to the encyclopaedia Bolsaya Sovetskaya “In 200 names born from Macedonians born before the ascent of Philip II (359b.C.), hardly 5% are of non-greek origin. Non Greek names in small numbers can also be found in other Greek tribes.
We know some names of Gods and Heroes worshiped by the Macedonians. Among them, 39 are either pan-hellenic or worshiped by other Greek tribes, either purely macedonian, but with a Greek etymology [root]. 2 come from names of cities with a non-hellenic root but with a greek termination syllabe 3 are Thracian 1 is Egyptian All of the names of Macedonian Feasts that we know are Greek. Regarding the names of the months, 6 are common with other Greek calendars, and at least two more are also purely Greek. The idea that the Macedonians took the names of the months during their ‘hellenisation’ is out of the question, as in that case they would have taken an integral Greek calendar instead of creating an amalgam of different greek calendars and, more important, they would never invent themselves two Greek names of months. ” All these of course are taking place at a time where the Illyrian and Thracian names have in their vast majority non-greek etymologies.

Fact #7 “Ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect”

According to the eminent linquist, Olivier Masson, writing in 1996 for the “Oxford Classical Dictionary: ‘Macedonian Language”. “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. ‘Ptolemaios’ is attested as early as Homer, ‘Ale3avdros’ occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- (’Alexandra’), ‘Laagos’, then ‘Lagos’, matches the Cyprian ‘Lawagos’, etc. The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like ‘Arridaios’ or ‘Sabattaras’, may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece). Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like ‘Berenika’ for ‘Ferenika’, etc.). Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb ‘opoka’ which is not Thessalian. We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.”

Fact #8 “Alexander’s campaign Pan-Hellenic character”

Alexander the Great launched a Pan-hellenic campaign against Persia and through his conquests spread Hellenism in a vast colonizing wave throughout the Near East and created economically and culturally, a single world stretching from Greece to the Punjab in India with Greek (koine) as lingua franca. He built a network of almost thirty Greek cities throughout the empire, a building program that was expanded by later Hellenistic rulers. These became enclaves of Greek culture. Here gymnasia, baths, and theaters were built. The upper classes spoke koine Greek, wore Greek dress, absorbed Greek learning, adopted Greek customs, and took part in Greek athletics. Ancient sources reports as such and the pan-hellenic character of his campaign were the definitive statements of the Macedonian royalty and nobility.

Fact #9 “Macedonians shared the same religion as the rest of Greeks”

Nowadays historians agree that Macedonians had the religious and cultural features of the rest Hellenic world. Like other Greek regions, regional characteristics have also to be noted especially near the borders.
Its quite interesting the fact that Macedonians also gave these deities the familiar Greek epithets, such as Agoraios, Basileus, Olympios, Hypsistos of Zeus, Basileia of Hera, Soter of Apollo, Hagemona and Soteira of Artemis, Boulaia of Hestia, etc.
The worship of the twelve Olympian gods in Macedonia is undoubted
and it is shown explicitely in the treaty between Philip V and Hannibal of Carthage “`In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO…and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS“.

I believe that in future the team at Assasin's Creed should learn all there is about the history of the images and symbols which they put into the game so as to avoid this happening again. i am sorry to say however that as a result of this i will not be buying the new Assasin's Creed Brotherhood game due to the fact that it insults me and my fellow Greeks.

Regards,
Stav

SevketErhat
06-25-2010, 02:24 AM
You must be a Greek nationalist judging from your alias

What can I say? Welcome to the forum

Murcuseo
06-25-2010, 03:16 AM
I'm a bit confused by this, I don't know much about Alexander The Great but by all accounts he was Alexander III of Macedon not of Greece. Is it not historically accurate within the Renaissance and even now that's how he would have been known?

As insulting as you may find it , it is accurate?

EzioAssassin51
06-25-2010, 03:43 AM
Wait... i think you pretty much contradicted your first paragraph in the second...

And i doubt every single Greek in the world really cares that much about a tiny litte historical mistake!

CrazyMike134
06-25-2010, 04:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
Hi assasins creed team,

i was just playing assasin's creed 2 the other day and i found something quite unusual in that when i was unlocking a particular code for the symbol i had found there were two questions with the portrait of Alexander The Great. however instead of having Greece next to his name it wrote Macedonia? i am disappointed in assasin's creed producers as i would have expected better of them due to their sound knowledge of history which they have incorporated into this game. I am from Macedonia northern Greece but i am Greek and this has quite frankly disgusted me personally as my grandfather and great grandfather fought and died during the Balkan wars in 1913 against the slavs, turks and bulgarians in order to help take back the lost lands of Greece which Turkey had control over since 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans. By labeling Alexander The Great as not being Greek nor born in Greece you insult me as well as 20 million Greeks world wide. this is a big deal as you cannot rewrite history and the fact is the TRUTH speaks for itself! that is why i have kindly taken to the time to explain why it is so that you have got it all horribly inaccurate at the assasins creed team.

There is no doupt that ancient Macedonians were Greek. It is thoroughly proved by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be found in history books and museums in Greece and arround the world. The most important archeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978 and it proves beyond any doubt the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. All the findings are characteristic of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the "Vergina sun" the symbol that FYROM attempted to use on its flag initially.

Facts which prove that ancient Macedonians were Greek people:

• Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language
All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language. Take a look at the archaeological discoveries. There is no historic evidence to suggest that the Macedonians were using a different language.

• Macedonians had Greek names
All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.

Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute, alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).
A detailed list of ancient Macedonian names can be found here.

• The regions of ancient Macedonia had Greek names.
The regions which formed ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Most of these names are used in Greece even today. You can see a list of the regions of ancient Macedonia here.

• Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture.
All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples, theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.

• Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.
Macedonians always fought along with the other Greek city-states against enemies from Asia.

• Macedonians took part in the Olympic games.
It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games. For a list of Macedonians who participated in the Olympic Games click here.

• Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.

• Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks.
Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the Greeks. The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in Macedonia. How would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of Greece.

also
Fact #1 “Alexander the Great was Greek”

Alexander’s Greek descent, and in general Argead Greek lineage went unquestioned by ancient Greek and Roman writers, revealing a widely belief in ancient Greek and Roman world (including of course Macedonians themselves), the Argead royal house were Greeks descended from Argos of Peloponnese. The founder of their house belonged to the royal house of Argos, the “Temenidae”, descendants of Temenus, whose ancestor was Heracles, son of Zeus.

Fact #2 ‘Earliest accounts verify the earliest Macedonians as Greeks”

The earliest literary accounts like Hesiodus (700 BCE) identified the earliest Macedonians as part of the greek world thus greek-speakers. Obviously if Macedonians werent Greeks but foreign people to Greeks, they wouldnt be part at all in Hesiodus’ account as Greek. After all its really irrational to have a supposedly ‘non-greek’ people while migrating to rename existing foreign toponymies into Greek, like the renaming from the earliest Macedonians of the original Phrygian place-name ‘Edessa‘ to the Greek ‘Aigae‘.

Fact #3 “Ancient Macedonians considered themselves as Greeks”

The surviving literary and archaeological evidence during Classical and Hellenistic Ages shows clearly that Macedonians considered themselves to be Greek, carriers to spread the Greek language and civilization to Asia while revenging Persians for their “crimes against Macedonia and the rest of Greece”.(

Fact #4 “Ancient Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks”

Ancient Greeks considered Macedonians as Greeks and specifically of Dorian stock. In fact ancient Greek accounts attributed some of the most patriotic Greek sentiments ever expressed to Macedonian rulers (Herodotos), described memories of the Greekness of the Makedones (Hesiodos, Hellanikos, Herodotos), mentioned their participations among Greek troops and folk, membership of Macedonia in the associations of the Greeks, namely the Delphic Amphictyony which had long been an important Panhellenic (Herodotos, Thucydides, Aichines). Hence they all verify the same conclusion. Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks.

Fact #5 “Foreign nations considered Macedonians as Greeks”

The ancient Roman, Persian, Indian, Jewish, Babylonian and Carthagenian testimonies are listing Macedonians among the other Hellenes, speaking the same language and in general Macedonians are portrayed as Hellenes fighting the Barbarians.
Fact #6 “Macedonian names are Greek”

In contrast with all their non-greek neighbours (Illyrians, Thracians, etc) ancient Macedonian names are either Greek or derive from Greek roots in a percentage of over 95%. According to the encyclopaedia Bolsaya Sovetskaya “In 200 names born from Macedonians born before the ascent of Philip II (359b.C.), hardly 5% are of non-greek origin. Non Greek names in small numbers can also be found in other Greek tribes.
We know some names of Gods and Heroes worshiped by the Macedonians. Among them, 39 are either pan-hellenic or worshiped by other Greek tribes, either purely macedonian, but with a Greek etymology [root]. 2 come from names of cities with a non-hellenic root but with a greek termination syllabe 3 are Thracian 1 is Egyptian All of the names of Macedonian Feasts that we know are Greek. Regarding the names of the months, 6 are common with other Greek calendars, and at least two more are also purely Greek. The idea that the Macedonians took the names of the months during their ‘hellenisation’ is out of the question, as in that case they would have taken an integral Greek calendar instead of creating an amalgam of different greek calendars and, more important, they would never invent themselves two Greek names of months. ” All these of course are taking place at a time where the Illyrian and Thracian names have in their vast majority non-greek etymologies.

Fact #7 “Ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect”

According to the eminent linquist, Olivier Masson, writing in 1996 for the “Oxford Classical Dictionary: ‘Macedonian Language”. “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. ‘Ptolemaios’ is attested as early as Homer, ‘Ale3avdros’ occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- (’Alexandra’), ‘Laagos’, then ‘Lagos’, matches the Cyprian ‘Lawagos’, etc. The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like ‘Arridaios’ or ‘Sabattaras’, may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece). Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like ‘Berenika’ for ‘Ferenika’, etc.). Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb ‘opoka’ which is not Thessalian. We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.”

Fact #8 “Alexander’s campaign Pan-Hellenic character”

Alexander the Great launched a Pan-hellenic campaign against Persia and through his conquests spread Hellenism in a vast colonizing wave throughout the Near East and created economically and culturally, a single world stretching from Greece to the Punjab in India with Greek (koine) as lingua franca. He built a network of almost thirty Greek cities throughout the empire, a building program that was expanded by later Hellenistic rulers. These became enclaves of Greek culture. Here gymnasia, baths, and theaters were built. The upper classes spoke koine Greek, wore Greek dress, absorbed Greek learning, adopted Greek customs, and took part in Greek athletics. Ancient sources reports as such and the pan-hellenic character of his campaign were the definitive statements of the Macedonian royalty and nobility.

Fact #9 “Macedonians shared the same religion as the rest of Greeks”

Nowadays historians agree that Macedonians had the religious and cultural features of the rest Hellenic world. Like other Greek regions, regional characteristics have also to be noted especially near the borders.
Its quite interesting the fact that Macedonians also gave these deities the familiar Greek epithets, such as Agoraios, Basileus, Olympios, Hypsistos of Zeus, Basileia of Hera, Soter of Apollo, Hagemona and Soteira of Artemis, Boulaia of Hestia, etc.
The worship of the twelve Olympian gods in Macedonia is undoubted
and it is shown explicitely in the treaty between Philip V and Hannibal of Carthage “`In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO…and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS“.

I believe that in future the team at Assasin's Creed should learn all there is about the history of the images and symbols which they put into the game so as to avoid this happening again. i am sorry to say however that as a result of this i will not be buying the new Assasin's Creed Brotherhood game due to the fact that it insults me and my fellow Greeks.

Regards,
Stav </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of, i think it's was really interesting and u have tought me alot mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, ive always had a huge interest in greek history due to the brilliance the ancient greeks possesed (not saying u guys ain't great today :b).
But if what u say is correct, which i assume it is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, then Alexander T.G. is macedonian, yes he was a greek, because history indicate that macedonians were greek according to your short lecture http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, then it's really just a more detailed origin info bout Alexander T.G. that ubi made, coz they don't write he was not greek, they just write he was macedonian, which was where he came from :b

El_Sjietah
06-25-2010, 04:38 AM
Just because he's a Greek (apparently, taking your word on this), doesn't mean he wasn't from Macedon. For instance, we call Leonidas Leonidas of Sparta, not Leonidas of Greece.

Marius_Darkwolf
06-25-2010, 05:12 AM
First I'm part greek,(1/4) and frankly you don't speak for all of us, and it's rather arrogent and rather insulting of you to assume that you do.
Second, Alexander is known as Alexander of Macedon, because that is the region he was born in. Now yes Macedonia was a region of Greece during that time frame, and is now again. But as I'm sure you're aware, each region of Greece was for all intents and purposes it's own state/country, that's why they each had their own laws and their own Kings. The only things that came close to tying them together, was their proximity, a shared religion, and a degree of interbreeding. A modern equivilent would be the Irish Counties. If I were to say "I'm from County Cork" you'd be able to find out the region of Ireland, and what kinds of culture I had grown up with. Same with this. Calling him Alexander of Greece would tell you nothing. In addition everyone of that time frame simply identified themselves and each other by region.

Engioc
06-25-2010, 06:16 AM
Are you married to LadyVe by any chance? If not check out her Letter to Ubi on behalf of the Fandom, cause you two really should hook up, you'd make a great pair.

TheLeoCrow
06-25-2010, 06:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
[...]For instance, we call Leonidas Leonidas of Sparta, not Leonidas of Greece. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess that's my queue since my name IS Leonidas and I'm also from Greece.
Macedonia was and is a greek region (most of it at least). Alexander was Macedonian and therefore Greek. He spoke Greek and he also tought it to the places he conquered. Does that make him any less Macedonian?

Just because F.Y.R.O.M. wants to be called Macedonia, doesn't mean he wasn't macedonian. Yes, a small part of the ancient macedonian land is within their borders and since they don't have reall history of their own, they try to borrow from ours. But that has nothing to do with the game, I consider the game accurate in that matter. Alexander was Macedonian, Leonidas was Spartan and they were both Greek

Stormpen
06-25-2010, 06:33 AM
According to your post:

&gt;Macedo(nia) is in Greece.
&gt;Alexander comes from Macedonia.
&gt;Therefore, he is from Macedonia.
&gt;So, we can say that he is Greek, because he's from Macedonia which is part of Greece.
&gt;But it's actually more accurate calling him Alexander of Macedonia, because at the start, he was King of Macedonia, not of Greece.

Ru1986
06-25-2010, 08:50 AM
I join robson on the confused Perch here as am i am studying Itallian Renaisence history i personally thought the game was pretty accurate in that respect (other than the obvious) there were a few small errors but on the whole they got it pretty much exactaly right especially the Pazzi conspiracy. However i dont really understand your anger to say you are utterly discrased at something means it has hit a real personal note and to be honest mate, its a game get over it.

What Robson says is pretty much bang on what i thought was the true Historical background.

Ru1986
06-25-2010, 08:57 AM
"Macedonia is in Greece"

WTF its a separate country, i may be English (agreed generally we are all very ignorent towards the rest of the world and generally we do all think we are the best so sorry for that i can assure you i am not like that lol) but i know for a fact the Former Yugoslav Rebublic of Macedonia is a separate coountry from Greece. Hence its name ?

El_Sjietah
06-25-2010, 09:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ru1986:
"Macedonia is in Greece"

WTF its a separate country, i may be English (agreed generally we are all very ignorent towards the rest of the world and generally we do all think we are the best so sorry for that i can assure you i am not like that lol) but i know for a fact the Former Yugoslav Rebublic of Macedonia is a separate coountry from Greece. Hence its name ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think his point is that it wasn't a seperate country back in the days of mr. The Great. Then again, you could hardly call ancient Greece a unified country anyway, so it's all a very shifty attempt to justify his wishes.

PWNcracker
06-25-2010, 12:18 PM
This has got to be a troll... either that or an extremely ignorant Greek nationalist.

Alexander the Great is widely known as a Macedonian, whilst this does mean that he is Greek, it is a distinct culture within itself. They're similar because they're both Hellenic cultures.

Let's put this into perspective... the UK is a country, but you would call David Beckham an English footballer. Similarly with Robert the Bruce; he wasn't British or UK-ian he was Scottish, you don't see me up in arms about this. A region as large as Macedon has a right to be acknowledged in such a manner.

In response to your statement of "Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks. " Are you serious? Do you have any idea how many wars were fought between the different City States that involved the Kingdom of Macedon? Maybe you should do some reasearch yourself before so arrogantly declaring that Ubi is wrong.

It is also worth pointing out that at this time, Greek was a general term for anyone who lived on that peninsula. It is unlikely that a person from Corinth would have identified themselves as "Greek", nor a person from Thessalonica. It was a highly fractal land and there was little unity presented unless they were united against a common foe: I.e. Persia.

Cool!

lilbacchant
06-29-2010, 09:34 PM
Okay, I'm trying to understand the point of the OP's diatribe but, alas, I'm one of those ignorant americans. If someone who is bi-fluent in both Greek and American history could translate for me I'd appreciate it ...

So, using an american, historical parallel, is the OP complaining that:

1) George Washington was mistakenly referred to as the President of Virginia.

-or-

2) That G.W. was referred to as the President of the United States but it should've been President of North America in his view?

katz_bg
06-30-2010, 12:44 AM
Macedonia was a part of Greece at the time of that Alexander, so what's the big deal?
I see the Macedonians today also distort history, teaching their children lies, even about stuff that living people remember, not just ancient history.

This is part of why nationalism for any country is stupid. Patriotism is a lesser stupid form, but that one at least is focused on the present, not the past.

El_Sjietah
06-30-2010, 02:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lilbacchant:
Okay, I'm trying to understand the point of the OP's diatribe but, alas, I'm one of those ignorant americans. If someone who is bi-fluent in both Greek and American history could translate for me I'd appreciate it ...

So, using an american, historical parallel, is the OP complaining that:

1) George Washington was mistakenly referred to as the President of Virginia.

-or-

2) That G.W. was referred to as the President of the United States but it should've been President of North America in his view? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're close with the first one. Basically, he's saying that if Washington was referred to as Washington of Virginia, he should be referred to as Washington of the USA. Main reason being to feed his already dilluted nationalism.

martinimarts11
06-30-2010, 02:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It was excavated in Vergina </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hehehe.....
but on a more serious note:
sorry that you feel offended....
i have family members that fought in a war too.
world war 2
but they were italian and thus on hitlers side so we'll ignore that.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ru1986
06-30-2010, 04:10 AM
I have relatives who were in WW2 but i dont get offended by a computer games inaccuracy because i diddnt fight in the war so why should it bother me. It doesnt show disrespect it just shows inaccuracy they diddnt purposfully say "lets get this bit wrong to annoy this one fan of ours" did they? People just need to lighten up a bit.

bokeef04
06-30-2010, 05:03 AM
i like how they have no problem with the main character being called Ezio Auditore Da Firenze despite him being from the country of Italy, or Leonardo Da Vinci to use an actual person

Ru1986
06-30-2010, 05:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bokeef04:
i like how they have no problem with the main character being called Ezio Auditore Da Firenze despite him being from the country of Italy, or Leonardo Da Vinci to use an actual person </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Firenze is in Italy Unless you mean hes from the countryside?

Account_Deleted
06-30-2010, 05:36 AM
tl;dr

El_Sjietah
06-30-2010, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ru1986:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bokeef04:
i like how they have no problem with the main character being called Ezio Auditore Da Firenze despite him being from the country of Italy, or Leonardo Da Vinci to use an actual person </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Firenze is in Italy Unless you mean hes from the countryside? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's his point. Alexander was technically from Greece, but is referred to as Alexander from Macedon, a region in Greece, because that defines him much better. Same with Ezio being called Da Firenze instead of Da Italia.

Ru1986
06-30-2010, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ru1986:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bokeef04:
i like how they have no problem with the main character being called Ezio Auditore Da Firenze despite him being from the country of Italy, or Leonardo Da Vinci to use an actual person </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Firenze is in Italy Unless you mean hes from the countryside? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's his point. Alexander was technically from Greece, but is referred to as Alexander from Macedon, a region in Greece, because that defines him much better. Same with Ezio being called Da Firenze instead of Da Italia. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh understand now sorry i diddnt appriciate that cool thanks for clearing that up.

wanderer77
06-30-2010, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
Hi assasins creed team,

i was just playing assasin's creed 2 the other day and i found something quite unusual in that when i was unlocking a particular code for the symbol i had found there were two questions with the portrait of Alexander The Great. however instead of having Greece next to his name it wrote Macedonia? i am disappointed in assasin's creed producers as i would have expected better of them due to their sound knowledge of history which they have incorporated into this game. I am from Macedonia northern Greece but i am Greek and this has quite frankly disgusted me personally as my grandfather and great grandfather fought and died during the Balkan wars in 1913 against the slavs, turks and bulgarians in order to help take back the lost lands of Greece which Turkey had control over since 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans. By labeling Alexander The Great as not being Greek nor born in Greece you insult me as well as 20 million Greeks world wide. this is a big deal as you cannot rewrite history and the fact is the TRUTH speaks for itself! that is why i have kindly taken to the time to explain why it is so that you have got it all horribly inaccurate at the assasins creed team.

There is no doupt that ancient Macedonians were Greek. It is thoroughly proved by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be found in history books and museums in Greece and arround the world. The most important archeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978 and it proves beyond any doubt the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. All the findings are characteristic of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the "Vergina sun" the symbol that FYROM attempted to use on its flag initially.

Facts which prove that ancient Macedonians were Greek people:

• Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language
All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language. Take a look at the archaeological discoveries. There is no historic evidence to suggest that the Macedonians were using a different language.

• Macedonians had Greek names
All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.

Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute, alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).
A detailed list of ancient Macedonian names can be found here.

• The regions of ancient Macedonia had Greek names.
The regions which formed ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Most of these names are used in Greece even today. You can see a list of the regions of ancient Macedonia here.

• Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture.
All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples, theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.

• Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.
Macedonians always fought along with the other Greek city-states against enemies from Asia.

• Macedonians took part in the Olympic games.
It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games. For a list of Macedonians who participated in the Olympic Games click here.

• Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.

• Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks.
Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the Greeks. The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in Macedonia. How would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of Greece.

also
Fact #1 “Alexander the Great was Greek”

Alexander’s Greek descent, and in general Argead Greek lineage went unquestioned by ancient Greek and Roman writers, revealing a widely belief in ancient Greek and Roman world (including of course Macedonians themselves), the Argead royal house were Greeks descended from Argos of Peloponnese. The founder of their house belonged to the royal house of Argos, the “Temenidae”, descendants of Temenus, whose ancestor was Heracles, son of Zeus.

Fact #2 ‘Earliest accounts verify the earliest Macedonians as Greeks”

The earliest literary accounts like Hesiodus (700 BCE) identified the earliest Macedonians as part of the greek world thus greek-speakers. Obviously if Macedonians werent Greeks but foreign people to Greeks, they wouldnt be part at all in Hesiodus’ account as Greek. After all its really irrational to have a supposedly ‘non-greek’ people while migrating to rename existing foreign toponymies into Greek, like the renaming from the earliest Macedonians of the original Phrygian place-name ‘Edessa‘ to the Greek ‘Aigae‘.

Fact #3 “Ancient Macedonians considered themselves as Greeks”

The surviving literary and archaeological evidence during Classical and Hellenistic Ages shows clearly that Macedonians considered themselves to be Greek, carriers to spread the Greek language and civilization to Asia while revenging Persians for their “crimes against Macedonia and the rest of Greece”.(

Fact #4 “Ancient Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks”

Ancient Greeks considered Macedonians as Greeks and specifically of Dorian stock. In fact ancient Greek accounts attributed some of the most patriotic Greek sentiments ever expressed to Macedonian rulers (Herodotos), described memories of the Greekness of the Makedones (Hesiodos, Hellanikos, Herodotos), mentioned their participations among Greek troops and folk, membership of Macedonia in the associations of the Greeks, namely the Delphic Amphictyony which had long been an important Panhellenic (Herodotos, Thucydides, Aichines). Hence they all verify the same conclusion. Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks.

Fact #5 “Foreign nations considered Macedonians as Greeks”

The ancient Roman, Persian, Indian, Jewish, Babylonian and Carthagenian testimonies are listing Macedonians among the other Hellenes, speaking the same language and in general Macedonians are portrayed as Hellenes fighting the Barbarians.
Fact #6 “Macedonian names are Greek”

In contrast with all their non-greek neighbours (Illyrians, Thracians, etc) ancient Macedonian names are either Greek or derive from Greek roots in a percentage of over 95%. According to the encyclopaedia Bolsaya Sovetskaya “In 200 names born from Macedonians born before the ascent of Philip II (359b.C.), hardly 5% are of non-greek origin. Non Greek names in small numbers can also be found in other Greek tribes.
We know some names of Gods and Heroes worshiped by the Macedonians. Among them, 39 are either pan-hellenic or worshiped by other Greek tribes, either purely macedonian, but with a Greek etymology [root]. 2 come from names of cities with a non-hellenic root but with a greek termination syllabe 3 are Thracian 1 is Egyptian All of the names of Macedonian Feasts that we know are Greek. Regarding the names of the months, 6 are common with other Greek calendars, and at least two more are also purely Greek. The idea that the Macedonians took the names of the months during their ‘hellenisation’ is out of the question, as in that case they would have taken an integral Greek calendar instead of creating an amalgam of different greek calendars and, more important, they would never invent themselves two Greek names of months. ” All these of course are taking place at a time where the Illyrian and Thracian names have in their vast majority non-greek etymologies.

Fact #7 “Ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect”

According to the eminent linquist, Olivier Masson, writing in 1996 for the “Oxford Classical Dictionary: ‘Macedonian Language”. “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. ‘Ptolemaios’ is attested as early as Homer, ‘Ale3avdros’ occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- (’Alexandra’), ‘Laagos’, then ‘Lagos’, matches the Cyprian ‘Lawagos’, etc. The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like ‘Arridaios’ or ‘Sabattaras’, may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece). Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like ‘Berenika’ for ‘Ferenika’, etc.). Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb ‘opoka’ which is not Thessalian. We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.”

Fact #8 “Alexander’s campaign Pan-Hellenic character”

Alexander the Great launched a Pan-hellenic campaign against Persia and through his conquests spread Hellenism in a vast colonizing wave throughout the Near East and created economically and culturally, a single world stretching from Greece to the Punjab in India with Greek (koine) as lingua franca. He built a network of almost thirty Greek cities throughout the empire, a building program that was expanded by later Hellenistic rulers. These became enclaves of Greek culture. Here gymnasia, baths, and theaters were built. The upper classes spoke koine Greek, wore Greek dress, absorbed Greek learning, adopted Greek customs, and took part in Greek athletics. Ancient sources reports as such and the pan-hellenic character of his campaign were the definitive statements of the Macedonian royalty and nobility.

Fact #9 “Macedonians shared the same religion as the rest of Greeks”

Nowadays historians agree that Macedonians had the religious and cultural features of the rest Hellenic world. Like other Greek regions, regional characteristics have also to be noted especially near the borders.
Its quite interesting the fact that Macedonians also gave these deities the familiar Greek epithets, such as Agoraios, Basileus, Olympios, Hypsistos of Zeus, Basileia of Hera, Soter of Apollo, Hagemona and Soteira of Artemis, Boulaia of Hestia, etc.
The worship of the twelve Olympian gods in Macedonia is undoubted
and it is shown explicitely in the treaty between Philip V and Hannibal of Carthage “`In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO…and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS“.

I believe that in future the team at Assasin's Creed should learn all there is about the history of the images and symbols which they put into the game so as to avoid this happening again. i am sorry to say however that as a result of this i will not be buying the new Assasin's Creed Brotherhood game due to the fact that it insults me and my fellow Greeks.

Regards,
Stav </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


you have thoroughly embarrassed yourself. all the points have been addressed by other posters, it is not innacurate to say the great is from macedonia.
the real point is that you put too much significance in nationalism and patriotism. you ancestors fighting in whatever wars is irrelevant to whether Ubisoft mistook Macedonia for Greece, and i mean no disrespect for your ancestors but still true, your ancestors have nothing to do with historical accuracy. being unable to see things objectively without involving personal input is why your post lost any impact on me, because remember, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HISTORICAL ACCURACY. nationalism and patriotism in itself is overrated and useless. do yourself a favor, love your people, not your country.

ellas_makedonia
06-30-2010, 12:47 PM
well obviously a lot of you haven’t completed or paid attention to the particular code with his paintings...
it doesn’t write Alexander the Great of Macedon instead it writes Alexander The Great, Macedonia...however if we look at Perseus in the same glyph who was part of Greek mythology it writes Greece next to his name?? also in the following puzzle again the same MISTAKE is made..it has Alexander The Great, Macedonia and then 2 or 3 paintings after it has Achilles, Greece...the Iliad was written by Homer and in particular Achilles was Alexanders hero and he even slept with the Iliad under his pillow...
This rules out any previous thoughts that Greece at the time of unlocking the code was made up of separate city-states as this glyph mode doesn’t take place at the same time when Ezio is around as further on it goes on about atomic bomb, the light bulb..etc. also the first painting is from Rembrandt and the title of the artwork is just Alexander The Great..thats it!
Greece was made up of separate city states but Alexander the great unified these states with 1 or 2 exceptions and through his conquests spread the HELLENIC culture to the world.
Marius_Darkwolf obviously ur not Greek because if u were then it would mean something to you and obviously you don’t know much about your Greek heritage nor history because if you did then it would matter.
Ru1986 yes Macedonia is in Greece have you looked at a map of Greece if not look to the north...still not satisfied show me records of a so called "Macedonian" country before the 1990s and even if you do find some form of propaganda then i have plenty of hard evidence which proves otherwise.

Also many of you don’t actually get why i am protesting this mistake.. many of believe that this game has offended just me personally well if you knew anything about the relations between FYROM = Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and Greece then you would understand. In a nut shell FYROM is trying to claim historical and territorial rights from Greece! By allowing and recognizing FYROm changing its name to "Macedonia" they can then make claim to the history of Greece for instance saying that Alexander the Great is NOT Greek but Macedonian which they have already done and tried to prove by paying historians, scientists etc to make such claims true..also FYROM wants to claim the northern region of Greece due to its strategically positioned location which it holds and which has access to the Aegean Sea and its ports. Many maps have already been drawn up by the actual government of FYROm with the northern part of Greece included in their maps as being part of a “Macedonian” country. On top of this many propaganda campaigns have also come about in the country funded by the government itself.

wanderer77 yes i am talking about historical accuracy and i bet you the facts which i have provided are 99.99% right and not just in my opinion lets get that straight as i have studied this issue and read the opinions from both sides as well as neutral. Just because this issue effects me doesn’t mean i can’t look at something objectively. I love my people and my country as it holds much significance to me and i don’t want it to be lost...what would happen if Canada decided to take land which belonged to America? Would the people just say yea you can take it because we are not patriotic and don’t care about our country or would they stand up against its enemy? Just a question

El_Sjietah
06-30-2010, 01:01 PM
And what's the main difference between Alexander and Achilles or Perseus? Acilles and Perseus are mythological characters, tied to the entire country of Greece. Alexander was a real person, with his roots in Macedon. Stop creating false analogies.

Murcuseo
06-30-2010, 01:52 PM
@ellas_makedonia:

This thread should have died a week ago, if historical fact offends you then you should pick another subject. History shouldn't be rewritten just to ease your political objectives... your opinions apply in modern culture but are irrelevant when applied to history. That's something you're going to have to live with...

Also I noticed you said...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it doesn’t write Alexander the Great of Macedon instead it writes Alexander The Great, Macedonia...however if we look at Perseus in the same glyph who was part of Greek mythology it writes Greece next to his name?? also in the following puzzle again the same MISTAKE is made..it has Alexander The Great, Macedonia and then 2 or 3 paintings after it has Achilles, Greece... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... you do realise that the 'Macedonia' and 'Greece' after their names could be a reference to their geographic location in the picture rather than their geographical heritage?

Replace the ,'s with the word IN and you'll see what I mean....

ellas_makedonia
06-30-2010, 01:56 PM
so Alexander the great holds no significance to the Greek people?? please read the actual post before posting because as i mentioned before it doesn't refer to the region rather the fabricated "Macedonian" country. lets get this straight why would they group Achilles and Perseus under the Greece banner and Alexander under the Macedonia banner?? how can you say that they are tied to the whole country and Alexander is not since he spread Hellenism to the world not Macedonism?..now your not making any sense?

funny how this game goes on about the "Truth" but when its right in front of you, you dismiss it? oh well

but i am talking about geographical location..by mentioning Greece and not Athens or Sparta they are referring to the country of Greece...by mentioning Macedonia then they are recognizing the pseudo country which is what i and the rest of Greeks in general have a problem with.

well when you look at history a COUNTRY named "Macedonia" doesn't exist before the 1990s? yet why are they allowed to rewrite history and lay claim to mine??

Murcuseo
06-30-2010, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:

well when you look at history a COUNTRY named "Macedonia" doesn't exist before the 1990s? yet why are they allowed to rewrite history and lay claim to mine?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're being very selective about which historical references you're using... unsurprisingly...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Quote from HistoryofMacedonia.org (http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/ShortHistory.html):

Although Macedonia is a young state which became independent in 1991, its roots run deep in the history. <span class="ev_code_RED">The name "Macedonia" is in fact the oldest surviving name of a country in the continent of Europe.</span> Archaeological evidence shows that old European civilization flourished in Macedonia between 7000 and 3500 BC. Macedonia is located in the center of the Southern Balkans, north of ancient Greece, east of Illyria, and west of Thrace. The ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, ethnically, linguistically, and culturally different from their neighbors. The origins of the Macedonians are in the ancient Brygian substratum which occupied the whole of Macedonian territory and in Indo-European superstratum, which settled here at the end of the 2nd millennium. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said you're trying to rewrite history to satisfy your political gain, this isn't the place to do it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maybe you should read the entire article I quoted from, it might enlighten you as to the other side of your arguement.

AMuppetMatt
06-30-2010, 02:33 PM
Please, please just get over yourself.
(There, I said what we were all thinking).

If Alexander was born in Macedonia (a province of Greece at the time) in whatever year it was, then it is accurate for that time period. Granted it may not be relevant NOW, but 2500 years ago I'm pretty sure that would make complete sense. You're making a mountain out of a molehill here, there are bound to be historical innacuracies in a game like this, and it's one glyph puzzle... it's not as if they creaters put a giant sign up saying "Greeks don't matter, Macedonians rule!" is it?

According to Wikipedia, ol' Alex was a "Greek king of Macedon"... which surely makes the idea that he was "of Macedon" correct? He was the son of the King of Macedon... again further supporting the idea that he is of Macedon. His successor was Alexander IV of... you guessed it Macedon. His father was Philip II of... Macedon.

He is "of Macedon."
He is Macedonian
Get over it.

EDIT: I scrapped the last two paragraphs on this... I read them back to myself and realized how much of a ***** they made me look...

thekyle0
06-30-2010, 03:33 PM
@ ellas_makedonia: I'm sorry, man, but you don't seem to be listening to the main point a lot of people have been trying to articulate. Just please take the time to read these simple points and tell me where you think it goes wrong.
- Alexander the Great was from Macedonia.
- Macedonia is considered part of the Greek region and shares the Hellenic culture.
- Therefore, it's fair to say he's from Greece, but is more specific to say he is from Macedonia.
- This is not to say that Macedonia is a country within the country of Greece, but a region within the country akin to separate states within the United States.
Do you understand? Do you disagree? If not, why do you feel that way?

Now to address you most recent post,
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
lets get this straight why would they group Achilles and Perseus under the Greece banner and Alexander under the Macedonia banner?? how can you say that they are tied to the whole country and Alexander is not since he spread Hellenism to the world not Macedonism?..now your not making any sense? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If people are saying that Alexander is from Macedonia and you believe that Macedonia is part of Greece (and nobody is trying to say that it isn't) does that not justify your national pride in having Alexander be from Greece as well? That would be like me, born a United States citizen, feeling like people are saying I can't be proud of my own American heroes simply because they aren't from the same state as I am. Would you agree?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but i am talking about geographical location..by mentioning Greece and not Athens or Sparta they are referring to the country of Greece...by mentioning Macedonia then they are recognizing the pseudo country which is what i and the rest of Greeks in general have a problem with. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't understand how referring to Macedonia as "Macedonia" recognizes it as a separate country. If I were mimic it then by referring to the Caucus mountain region in Russia as "The Caucasus" rather than "Russia", it would mean I'm recognizing the caucus mountain region as its own country. Once again, would you agree?

Now I'd like to comment on a point you made before.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also many of you don’t actually get why i am protesting this mistake.. many of believe that this game has offended just me personally well if you knew anything about the relations between FYROM = Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and Greece then you would understand. In a nut shell FYROM is trying to claim historical and territorial rights from Greece! By allowing and recognizing FYROm changing its name to "Macedonia" they can then make claim to the history of Greece for instance saying that Alexander the Great is NOT Greek but Macedonian which they have already done and tried to prove by paying historians, scientists etc to make such claims true..also FYROM wants to claim the northern region of Greece due to its strategically positioned location which it holds and which has access to the Aegean Sea and its ports. Many maps have already been drawn up by the actual government of FYROm with the northern part of Greece included in their maps as being part of a “Macedonian” country. On top of this many propaganda campaigns have also come about in the country funded by the government itself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I feel for you, buddy. At least as much as I reasonably can being one who doesn't see himself being affected by the outcome of the issue. However, this is a modern dilemma and can't really be applied Alexander's time. And at his time, Greece wasn't technically a unified nation. At least not until he unifies it personally using his army from Macedonia. After that is when Greece is more solidly unified (I believe both of the Peloponnesian wars serve to show the prior division of the city-states) and Alexander begins to conquer abroad and spread Hellenism, as you said. Therefore, when speaking about Alexander's time, wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to where he comes from as "Macedonia", rather than "Greece", regardless of what it is called today? For example, most people wouldn't refer to Manchuria in China as "Manchuoko" as it was called by the Japanese when they invaded that region of China in 1933. Names of places change and borders shift to contain new places. I believe that it is appropriate to refer to places as they were known at the specific time you are referring to, regardless of what they were known as at other times. Am I making sense?

El_Sjietah
06-30-2010, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
so Alexander the great holds no significance to the Greek people?? please read the actual post before posting because as i mentioned before it doesn't refer to the region rather the fabricated "Macedonian" country. lets get this straight why would they group Achilles and Perseus under the Greece banner and Alexander under the Macedonia banner?? how can you say that they are tied to the whole country and Alexander is not since he spread Hellenism to the world not Macedonism?..now your not making any sense?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I already answered that. Stop ignoring posts that don't support your view.

greekassassin1
06-30-2010, 04:42 PM
i don't think it is inaccurate because Macedonia is in Greece,coolare file mou http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Abeonis
06-30-2010, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
so Alexander the great holds no significance to the Greek people?? please read the actual post before posting because as i mentioned before it doesn't refer to the region rather the fabricated "Macedonian" country. lets get this straight why would they group Achilles and Perseus under the Greece banner and Alexander under the Macedonia banner?? how can you say that they are tied to the whole country and Alexander is not since he spread Hellenism to the world not Macedonism?..now your not making any sense? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, for a Greek national, you're not particularly well informed on your own history, are you? Macedonia was not a "fabricated country", as you put it. In Alexander's time it was a fully fledged-independant kingdom in northern Greece, totally seperated from the city-states of Athens and Sparta both in terms of distance and way of life. So whilst Alexander may have had Greek blood in his veins, he was born a Macedonian. In fact, it wasn't even until Macedonia conquered the Greek peninsula that the idea of being Greek came about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
Hi assasins creed team,

i was just playing assasin's creed 2 the other day and i found something quite unusual in that when i was unlocking a particular code for the symbol i had found there were two questions with the portrait of Alexander The Great. however instead of having Greece next to his name it wrote Macedonia? i am disappointed in assasin's creed producers as i would have expected better of them due to their sound knowledge of history which they have incorporated into this game. I am from Macedonia northern Greece but i am Greek and this has quite frankly disgusted me personally as my grandfather and great grandfather fought and died during the Balkan wars in 1913 against the slavs, turks and bulgarians in order to help take back the lost lands of Greece which Turkey had control over since 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans. By labeling Alexander The Great as not being Greek nor born in Greece you insult me as well as 20 million Greeks world wide. this is a big deal as you cannot rewrite history and the fact is the TRUTH speaks for itself! that is why i have kindly taken to the time to explain why it is so that you have got it all horribly inaccurate at the assasins creed team.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Firstly, many of us are fully aware of the conflicts that have plagued Greece over the centuries, so we do not need you trying to pull the sympathy vote from us by bring it up. Also, as I have mentioned before, it would have been historically inaccurate for the developers to laber Alexander as Greek, as he wasn't, he was Macedonian.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
There is no doupt that ancient Macedonians were Greek. It is thoroughly proved by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be found in history books and museums in Greece and arround the world. The most important archeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978 and it proves beyond any doubt the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. All the findings are characteristic of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the "Vergina sun" the symbol that FYROM attempted to use on its flag initially.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Same point stands, until Macedon conquered the Greek peninsula and subsequently adopted the name for its own, absorbing the entire peninsula into its own borders, Macedon was seperate to Greece; whilst they may have shared common ancestory, culture and beliefs, the fact remains they were distinctly seperate. Take the USA for example, up until 1776 being "American" didn't exist, they were either French, Spanish or British; rebellion occurs, independance is gained and they become American. But under your way of thinking, every single US citizen is actually still British, French or Spanish... doubt they would agree with that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Facts which prove that ancient Macedonians were Greek people:

• Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language
All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language. Take a look at the archaeological discoveries. There is no historic evidence to suggest that the Macedonians were using a different language.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No-one's denying their Greek heritage, but once again, that doesn't make them Greek.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians had Greek names
All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.

Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute, alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).
A detailed list of ancient Macedonian names can be found here.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My name is hebrew in origin, but last I looked in the mirror I was thoroughly English... perhaps I should check again.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• The regions of ancient Macedonia had Greek names.
The regions which formed ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Most of these names are used in Greece even today. You can see a list of the regions of ancient Macedonia here.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, they had Macedonian names. They may have become Greek since then, but only because Macedonian culture was merged with Greek culture following the conquest.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture.
All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples, theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Erm, dur.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.
Macedonians always fought along with the other Greek city-states against enemies from Asia.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend." When faced with an overwhelming force (i.e. the Persians), it only makes sense to join forces. When they Persians' weren't being a threat, the Greeks were fighting each other constantly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians took part in the Olympic games.
It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games. For a list of Macedonians who participated in the Olympic Games click here.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well the Persians certainly weren't going to, and with the exception of them, no other peoples really either cared for the Olympics, or were close enough to participate. I mean, Rome didn't even unite the Italian peninsula until the Third Samnite War ended in 290BC.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What else are they going to celebrate?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks.
Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the Greeks. The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in Macedonia. How would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of Greece.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gods are gods. The Roman's worshipped the same pantheon of gods, albeit with different names.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
also
Fact #1 “Alexander the Great was Greek”

Alexander’s Greek descent, and in general Argead Greek lineage went unquestioned by ancient Greek and Roman writers, revealing a widely belief in ancient Greek and Roman world (including of course Macedonians themselves), the Argead royal house were Greeks descended from Argos of Peloponnese. The founder of their house belonged to the royal house of Argos, the “Temenidae”, descendants of Temenus, whose ancestor was Heracles, son of Zeus.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, he wasn't. He was Macedonian.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #2 ‘Earliest accounts verify the earliest Macedonians as Greeks”

The earliest literary accounts like Hesiodus (700 BCE) identified the earliest Macedonians as part of the greek world thus greek-speakers. Obviously if Macedonians werent Greeks but foreign people to Greeks, they wouldnt be part at all in Hesiodus’ account as Greek. After all its really irrational to have a supposedly ‘non-greek’ people while migrating to rename existing foreign toponymies into Greek, like the renaming from the earliest Macedonians of the original Phrygian place-name ‘Edessa‘ to the Greek ‘Aigae‘.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're just repeating yourself now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #3 “Ancient Macedonians considered themselves as Greeks”

The surviving literary and archaeological evidence during Classical and Hellenistic Ages shows clearly that Macedonians considered themselves to be Greek, carriers to spread the Greek language and civilization to Asia while revenging Persians for their “crimes against Macedonia and the rest of Greece”.(
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd like to see your source for those quotes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #4 “Ancient Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks”

Ancient Greeks considered Macedonians as Greeks and specifically of Dorian stock. In fact ancient Greek accounts attributed some of the most patriotic Greek sentiments ever expressed to Macedonian rulers (Herodotos), described memories of the Greekness of the Makedones (Hesiodos, Hellanikos, Herodotos), mentioned their participations among Greek troops and folk, membership of Macedonia in the associations of the Greeks, namely the Delphic Amphictyony which had long been an important Panhellenic (Herodotos, Thucydides, Aichines). Hence they all verify the same conclusion. Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shared culture =/= being the same.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #5 “Foreign nations considered Macedonians as Greeks”

The ancient Roman, Persian, Indian, Jewish, Babylonian and Carthagenian testimonies are listing Macedonians among the other Hellenes, speaking the same language and in general Macedonians are portrayed as Hellenes fighting the Barbarians.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nazism held the belief that society was made up of a number of levels of human purity. Right at the top was the Aryans or Nordics, then the British and Western Europeans, then Jews, blacks, asians and finally Slavs.

Anyone below the Western European was simply classed as "undesirable". This was the same for the Macedonians and Greeks, who were seen simply as one and the same; differences in culture, way of life and the likes were simply ignored.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #6 “Macedonian names are Greek”

In contrast with all their non-greek neighbours (Illyrians, Thracians, etc) ancient Macedonian names are either Greek or derive from Greek roots in a percentage of over 95%. According to the encyclopaedia Bolsaya Sovetskaya “In 200 names born from Macedonians born before the ascent of Philip II (359b.C.), hardly 5% are of non-greek origin. Non Greek names in small numbers can also be found in other Greek tribes.
We know some names of Gods and Heroes worshiped by the Macedonians. Among them, 39 are either pan-hellenic or worshiped by other Greek tribes, either purely macedonian, but with a Greek etymology [root]. 2 come from names of cities with a non-hellenic root but with a greek termination syllabe 3 are Thracian 1 is Egyptian All of the names of Macedonian Feasts that we know are Greek. Regarding the names of the months, 6 are common with other Greek calendars, and at least two more are also purely Greek. The idea that the Macedonians took the names of the months during their ‘hellenisation’ is out of the question, as in that case they would have taken an integral Greek calendar instead of creating an amalgam of different greek calendars and, more important, they would never invent themselves two Greek names of months. ” All these of course are taking place at a time where the Illyrian and Thracian names have in their vast majority non-greek etymologies.

Fact #7 “Ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect”

According to the eminent linquist, Olivier Masson, writing in 1996 for the “Oxford Classical Dictionary: ‘Macedonian Language”. “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. ‘Ptolemaios’ is attested as early as Homer, ‘Ale3avdros’ occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- (’Alexandra’), ‘Laagos’, then ‘Lagos’, matches the Cyprian ‘Lawagos’, etc. The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like ‘Arridaios’ or ‘Sabattaras’, may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece). Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like ‘Berenika’ for ‘Ferenika’, etc.). Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb ‘opoka’ which is not Thessalian. We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.”
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shared culture =/= the same.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #8 “Alexander’s campaign Pan-Hellenic character”

Alexander the Great launched a Pan-hellenic campaign against Persia and through his conquests spread Hellenism in a vast colonizing wave throughout the Near East and created economically and culturally, a single world stretching from Greece to the Punjab in India with Greek (koine) as lingua franca. He built a network of almost thirty Greek cities throughout the empire, a building program that was expanded by later Hellenistic rulers. These became enclaves of Greek culture. Here gymnasia, baths, and theaters were built. The upper classes spoke koine Greek, wore Greek dress, absorbed Greek learning, adopted Greek customs, and took part in Greek athletics. Ancient sources reports as such and the pan-hellenic character of his campaign were the definitive statements of the Macedonian royalty and nobility.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, he spread Macedonian culture, which had becoome one and the same with Greek culture following the latters conquest.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #9 “Macedonians shared the same religion as the rest of Greeks”

Nowadays historians agree that Macedonians had the religious and cultural features of the rest Hellenic world. Like other Greek regions, regional characteristics have also to be noted especially near the borders.
Its quite interesting the fact that Macedonians also gave these deities the familiar Greek epithets, such as Agoraios, Basileus, Olympios, Hypsistos of Zeus, Basileia of Hera, Soter of Apollo, Hagemona and Soteira of Artemis, Boulaia of Hestia, etc.
The worship of the twelve Olympian gods in Macedonia is undoubted
and it is shown explicitely in the treaty between Philip V and Hannibal of Carthage “`In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO…and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS“.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
God, you like repeating yourself.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I believe that in future the team at Assasin's Creed should learn all there is about the history of the images and symbols which they put into the game so as to avoid this happening again.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps you might do the same.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
i am sorry to say however that as a result of this i will not be buying the new Assasin's Creed Brotherhood game due to the fact that it insults me and my fellow Greeks.

Regards,
Stav
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You already know that the Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood will be insulting Greek culture, and by extension, yourself, without knowing anything about the game... Man, you're good.

NightmareGK13
06-30-2010, 05:24 PM
i actually wrote a paper for history of art on college regarding the same painting by rembrandt
it has a duality of identities, it can be either Alexander the Great of Atena Palas
the name of the painting on the museum here where it is exposed in Portugal is Athena Pala, clearly they chose the other possible interpretation, but the manuscript from the Hermitage actually had the name Alexander the Great, Macedonia

bokeef04
06-30-2010, 05:30 PM
so ellas_makedonia, by your way of thinking, like i said before, Ezio and Leonardo should be known as Da Italia because they came from the country of Italy rather then Da Firenze and Da Vinci respectively which is the state they were born in

I'm guessing also, to use a Greek reference, Leonidas should have been known as king of Greece not Sparta? since Sparta was part of Greece

according to an article i read Alexander the Great was also known as Alexander of Macedonia, meaning it was just one of the names he went by, considering it also listed his birthplace as Pella, Macedonia(the article was a list of famous Greek people)

but this doesn't fit with your "truth" so you'll prob ignore it anyway

ellas_makedonia
07-01-2010, 02:37 AM
ok just want to clear something up...if they are referring to Alexander the great being from ancient Macedonia the city state then im fine with it because it was a Greek city state but if however they are referring to the modern day fabricated country then i have a legitimate reason to complain. the only reason why i took this to be the second is because the other paintings had countries next to their names and the other two related paintings had Greece next to them. my question like before is why weren't these paintings labeled as Athens or Sparta basically the independent city states but instead refer to Greece as a unified country which would only have to mean that reference is being made to modern day countries. if this is so then it is not from the ancient city state of Macedonia yet the newly formed country with a history little over 66 or so years old.

Robson19822009 funny how you are saying im being selective when you just googled a whole pro FYROm website which looked all nice and authentic but in fact is riddled with many inaccuracies 1 such inaccuracy is that the website clearly describes how the people of FYROm are direct descendants of ancient Macedonians yet in 1992 FYROM's very own president admits that they are not the real Macedonians.

"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."[FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35.]

"We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."[FYROM's Ambassador to Canada, Gyordan Veselinov in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999]

"We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great. We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language."[FYROM'S Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, 22 January 1999]

hmm seems to me like the whole website you quoted pays no real significant role because according to these leaders and representatives the people of FYROm came to the Balkans in the 6 or 7th century AD not 4000BC which is claimed in the website so wat happened between 4000BC to the 6th century? i dont know which lie is better to believe? but i guess you must be right about it because a simple web search fixes everything these days.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Neo00_85
07-01-2010, 02:49 AM
they were refering to the city state....
I think everyone here have told you this already...

In the BrotherHood there will be a mission with an historic hero from my country.... Vasco da Gama, he was the commander of the first ships to sail directly from Europe to India, and brought fame and lots of gold to Portugal, but if by any chance in brotherhood I have to send someone to kill him, I will, because IT'S JUST A GAME.... I would stab him myself if I had to... don't tell me im not patriotic, because I am. I love my country, but a game it's a game.

So quit making a fuss for something so small, and nobody cares if you won't by brotherhood..... one less guy lagging the servers.... yay...

Murcuseo
07-01-2010, 02:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
ok just want to clear something up...if they are referring to Alexander the great being from ancient Macedonia the city state then im fine with it because it was a Greek city state but if however they are referring to the modern day fabricated country then i have a legitimate reason to complain. the only reason why i took this to be the second is because the other paintings had countries next to their names and the other two related paintings had Greece next to them. my question like before is why weren't these paintings labeled as Athens or Sparta basically the independent city states but instead refer to Greece as a unified country which would only have to mean that reference is being made to modern day countries. if this is so then it is not from the ancient city state of Macedonia yet the newly formed country with a history little over 66 or so years old. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can translate that for everyone..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia, translated by Robson:

<span class="ev_code_RED">If you're view fits in with my narrow minded political outlook I will take what you say on board, if it doesn't I will completely ignore you and continue to repeat myself regardless of it being utterly futile.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:

Robson19822009 funny how you are saying im being selective when you just googled a whole pro FYROm website which looked all nice and authentic but in fact is riddled with many inaccuracies 1 such inaccuracy is that the website clearly describes how the people of FYROm are direct descendants of ancient Macedonians yet in 1992 FYROM's very own president admits that they are not the real Macedonians. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny how a simple 2 second search on google can disprove almost everything you say, I think that's the more relevant point here. Also, every time you quote someone or endlessly type out the same thing over and over you don't add any relevant links to help prove your point. This site is for discussing AC not for someone to air their political grievances... I'm sure there are plenty of other places to do it!

<span class="ev_code_RED">I'm starting a vote to close this topic, it's pointless trying to discuss something with someone that is so narrow minded and I'm tired of seeing it near the top of the forum listing.

If you feel the same quote this and type VTC in your response and I'll report it to a mod.</span>

If not just ignore this and continue to chase your tail http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ellas_makedonia
07-01-2010, 03:22 AM
funny how when hard evidence is put out on the table many of you back down and label people as narrow minded http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ru1986
07-01-2010, 03:44 AM
ellas_makedonia, I appriciate you know far more about the area than i do and please do not take what i say the wrong way i am not trying to get under your skin i am just curious. However surely if its called the Former "yugoslav" republic it was part of Yugoslavia not Greece or was it part of Greece then became part of Yugoslavia when all of that formed i dont know so that why i ask mate??

Murcuseo
07-01-2010, 04:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
funny how when hard evidence is put out on the table many of you back down and label people as narrow minded http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You haven't actually put any hard evidence on the table, all you've done is type out quotes that may or may not be true without actually linking to any proof of their existence...

The reason people 'back down' is because there's only so many times you can have a conversation before it gets repetitive and boring and seeing as you're only here to present your own views and completely dismiss others it's not a conversation worth having.

I've reported this discussion in the hope it will be closed and you can find a better platform/website to air your political elitism, best of luck.

El_Sjietah
07-01-2010, 04:17 AM
I think we've established that they are, in fact, referring to ancient Macedon and not current Macedon. So can this thread die peacefully now?

TheLeoCrow
07-01-2010, 05:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:

well when you look at history a COUNTRY named "Macedonia" doesn't exist before the 1990s? yet why are they allowed to rewrite history and lay claim to mine?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're being very selective about which historical references you're using... unsurprisingly...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Quote from HistoryofMacedonia.org (http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/ShortHistory.html):

Although Macedonia is a young state which became independent in 1991, its roots run deep in the history. <span class="ev_code_RED">The name "Macedonia" is in fact the oldest surviving name of a country in the continent of Europe.</span> Archaeological evidence shows that old European civilization flourished in Macedonia between 7000 and 3500 BC. Macedonia is located in the center of the Southern Balkans, north of ancient Greece, east of Illyria, and west of Thrace. The ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, ethnically, linguistically, and culturally different from their neighbors. The origins of the Macedonians are in the ancient Brygian substratum which occupied the whole of Macedonian territory and in Indo-European superstratum, which settled here at the end of the 2nd millennium. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said you're trying to rewrite history to satisfy your political gain, this isn't the place to do it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maybe you should read the entire article I quoted from, it might enlighten you as to the other side of your arguement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do realise that this is an oxymoron. I can make a website saying that the sky is green and then reference this site to give validity when i say that it's green. I'm not saying that you created this site but it is made by FYROM. However let me quote from this site as well:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> As federal Yugoslavia was disintegrating at the beginning of 1990's, on September 8, 1991 in a referendum, 95% of eligible voters approved the independence and sovereignty of the Republic of Macedonia. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even there, it clearly states that this country was formed in 1991, it wasn't a separate country until then.

ellas_makedonia
07-01-2010, 05:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
so Alexander the great holds no significance to the Greek people?? please read the actual post before posting because as i mentioned before it doesn't refer to the region rather the fabricated "Macedonian" country. lets get this straight why would they group Achilles and Perseus under the Greece banner and Alexander under the Macedonia banner?? how can you say that they are tied to the whole country and Alexander is not since he spread Hellenism to the world not Macedonism?..now your not making any sense? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, for a Greek national, you're not particularly well informed on your own history, are you? Macedonia was not a "fabricated country", as you put it. In Alexander's time it was a fully fledged-independant kingdom in northern Greece, totally seperated from the city-states of Athens and Sparta both in terms of distance and way of life. So whilst Alexander may have had Greek blood in his veins, he was born a Macedonian. In fact, it wasn't even until Macedonia conquered the Greek peninsula that the idea of being Greek came about.

Well im referring to FYROm not the ancient Greek city state of Macedonia but i guess you didn’t read up on the post which i explained it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia:
Hi assasins creed team,

i was just playing assasin's creed 2 the other day and i found something quite unusual in that when i was unlocking a particular code for the symbol i had found there were two questions with the portrait of Alexander The Great. however instead of having Greece next to his name it wrote Macedonia? i am disappointed in assasin's creed producers as i would have expected better of them due to their sound knowledge of history which they have incorporated into this game. I am from Macedonia northern Greece but i am Greek and this has quite frankly disgusted me personally as my grandfather and great grandfather fought and died during the Balkan wars in 1913 against the slavs, turks and bulgarians in order to help take back the lost lands of Greece which Turkey had control over since 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans. By labeling Alexander The Great as not being Greek nor born in Greece you insult me as well as 20 million Greeks world wide. this is a big deal as you cannot rewrite history and the fact is the TRUTH speaks for itself! that is why i have kindly taken to the time to explain why it is so that you have got it all horribly inaccurate at the assasins creed team.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Firstly, many of us are fully aware of the conflicts that have plagued Greece over the centuries, so we do not need you trying to pull the sympathy vote from us by bring it up. Also, as I have mentioned before, it would have been historically inaccurate for the developers to laber Alexander as Greek, as he wasn't, he was Macedonian.

Again you haven’t understood my argument its not about his descent eg Macedonian/greek but the fact that the reference is being made to current day FYROm who want to be recognised as “Macedonia” to lay claim to both territory and history of others.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
There is no doupt that ancient Macedonians were Greek. It is thoroughly proved by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be found in history books and museums in Greece and arround the world. The most important archeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978 and it proves beyond any doubt the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. All the findings are characteristic of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the "Vergina sun" the symbol that FYROM attempted to use on its flag initially.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Same point stands, until Macedon conquered the Greek peninsula and subsequently adopted the name for its own, absorbing the entire peninsula into its own borders, Macedon was seperate to Greece; whilst they may have shared common ancestory, culture and beliefs, the fact remains they were distinctly seperate. Take the USA for example, up until 1776 being "American" didn't exist, they were either French, Spanish or British; rebellion occurs, independance is gained and they become American. But under your way of thinking, every single US citizen is actually still British, French or Spanish... doubt they would agree with that.

Again not getting my point with the birts, French etc...how did it adopt the name for itself?? Wat did it hav to conquer the other states to get its name?? The name "Macedonia" derives from the tribal name of the ancient Macedonians, attested in Greek sources as ????????? (Maked?nes). It is usually linked to the Indo-European root *m?k-, meaning 'long' or 'tall'. The root is also encountered in the Greek words makednos "long, tall", (attested in Homer, and recorded by Hesychius of Alexandria as a Doric word meaning "large"), or makros ('long, large'), as well as related words in other Indo-European languages. It is commonly explained as having originally meant 'the tall ones' or 'highlanders' the sun of verginia is a greek symbol which FYROm has tried to use as their flag yet if you ask them what it means they are dumbfounded. In the typical 16-pointed Sun , the 4 rays represent the 4 elements: Earth-Ocean-Fire-Air. The other 12 rays represent the 12 Gods of Olympus. Plus this symbol was used a lot in ancient Greece on coins, pottery, art work, sculptures, sheildseven before the city state of Macedonia grew in power.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Facts which prove that ancient Macedonians were Greek people:

• Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language
All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language. Take a look at the archaeological discoveries. There is no historic evidence to suggest that the Macedonians were using a different language.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No-one's denying their Greek heritage, but once again, that doesn't make them Greek. How if they are not greek then wat are they? Are they modern day FYROm’s people wiat they can’t be because they are a Slavic race which hav a slavophonic alphabet created in the 6th century by Methodius and Cyril who were greek. The fact the over 70,000 plus artifacts uncovered in the northern region of Greece Macedonia all which have greek inscriptions, symbols. Now tell me why hasn’t there been even one record of evidence found which didn’t have greek inscriptions on?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians had Greek names
All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.

Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute, alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).
A detailed list of ancient Macedonian names can be found here.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My name is hebrew in origin, but last I looked in the mirror I was thoroughly English... perhaps I should check again.
You just cant counter this argument as the roots and origins of theses words are still used in modern greek language and are even in the English dictionary as being of greek root not “macedonian” root

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• The regions of ancient Macedonia had Greek names.
The regions which formed ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Most of these names are used in Greece even today. You can see a list of the regions of ancient Macedonia here.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, they had Macedonian names. They may have become Greek since then, but only because Macedonian culture was merged with Greek culture following the conquest. So all of a sudden Alexander who conquered the Greek city states had a brilliant idea before going off to fight the the Persians..wait for it lets rename all of the regions in my city state even though its so strong and powerful because it sounds better in greek...please lame excuse no clear logic involved

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture.
All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples, theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Erm, dur.
But why is this so..clearly you said that they are distinct people to greeks and live far away from them? So why would they use same architecture? Why wasn’t any clear or distinct Macedonian architecture used surely they didn’t need to copy everything from the Greeks according to your theory???

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.
Macedonians always fought along with the other Greek city-states against enemies from Asia.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend." When faced with an overwhelming force (i.e. the Persians), it only makes sense to join forces. When they Persians' weren't being a threat, the Greeks were fighting each other constantly.
Yet when alexander went to Persia and claimed war he did so because he wanted to seek revenge fr the two previous times which the Persians tried invading Greece..he doesn’t say to exact revenge for Macedonia no he says my country Greece..now why would he all of a sudden a patriotic Macedonian say his greek??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians took part in the Olympic games.
It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games. For a list of Macedonians who participated in the Olympic Games click here.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well the Persians certainly weren't going to, and with the exception of them, no other peoples really either cared for the Olympics, or were close enough to participate. I mean, Rome didn't even unite the Italian peninsula until the Third Samnite War ended in 290BC.
Well in Greece it was quite a big deal which only allowed free citizens of Greece to participate which ends your theory of there being no Greek identity before alexander the great..the Olympics were created in order for the city states to stop their wars and go head to head in Olympic sports instead in order to promote peace. Now alexander needed no be a Free Greek Citizen to take part in this event..which he did what does that tell you??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What else are they going to celebrate?
Their own festivals quite simple really?? How was it that Sparta and Athens celebrated same religious festivals yet they also celebrated different ones? Couldn’t the macedoninas come up with one on their own?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
• Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks.
Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the Greeks. The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in Macedonia. How would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of Greece.
[/QUOTEGods are gods. The Roman's worshipped the same pantheon of gods, albeit with different names.[QUOTE]
Fact #1 “Alexander the Great was Greek”

Alexander’s Greek descent, and in general Argead Greek lineage went unquestioned by ancient Greek and Roman writers, revealing a widely belief in ancient Greek and Roman world (including of course Macedonians themselves), the Argead royal house were Greeks descended from Argos of Peloponnese. The founder of their house belonged to the royal house of Argos, the “Temenidae”, descendants of Temenus, whose ancestor was Heracles, son of Zeus.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, he wasn't. He was Macedonian.
There is plenty of evidence which actually supports otherwise:
(Standard New King James bible)
Daniel 11:2-4

(Angel talking to Daniel)
2. And now I will tell you the truth:
Behold, three more kings will arise out of the kingdom of Persia,
and the forth shall be far richer than all of them;
by his strength, through his riches, he shall stir up all against the realm of Greece
3. Than a mighty king shall arise [referring to King Alexander]
who shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
4. And when he has risen, his kingdom will be broken up and divided
towards the four winds of heaven....


As we can see, it says, who ''shall rule with great dominion''.
No other Greek king from ''the realm of Greece'' during ancient times had ruled with ''Great dominion over other lands'' like Alexander did. Therefore no other Greek king could fit this category.
Than it says ''his kingdom will be broken up a divided towards the four winds of heaven.''
The only Greek king in ancient times (or throughout anytime in history) that after him, had his kingdom broken up in four different pieces was indeed Alexander and his kingdom.
After Alexander died, his kingdom was broken up into four pieces.
Therefore no other ''Prince of Greece'' as Daniel says from the ''realm of Greece'', could fit this category at all, other than King Alexander.
Now regardless whether you believe in the bible or not the bible is still looked upon today as a historical reference. There are also instances in the Quran which mention that alexander was Greek not just a “pure” Macedonian.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #2 ‘Earliest accounts verify the earliest Macedonians as Greeks”

The earliest literary accounts like Hesiodus (700 BCE) identified the earliest Macedonians as part of the greek world thus greek-speakers. Obviously if Macedonians werent Greeks but foreign people to Greeks, they wouldnt be part at all in Hesiodus’ account as Greek. After all its really irrational to have a supposedly ‘non-greek’ people while migrating to rename existing foreign toponymies into Greek, like the renaming from the earliest Macedonians of the original Phrygian place-name ‘Edessa‘ to the Greek ‘Aigae‘.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're just repeating yourself now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #3 “Ancient Macedonians considered themselves as Greeks”

The surviving literary and archaeological evidence during Classical and Hellenistic Ages shows clearly that Macedonians considered themselves to be Greek, carriers to spread the Greek language and civilization to Asia while revenging Persians for their “crimes against Macedonia and the rest of Greece”.(
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd like to see your source for those quotes.
I stated it before when alexander himself said that his reason for conquering Persia was to get revenge on the Persians who had invaded his homeland Greece he doesn’t mention that he wants revenge for Macedonia?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #4 “Ancient Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks”

Ancient Greeks considered Macedonians as Greeks and specifically of Dorian stock. In fact ancient Greek accounts attributed some of the most patriotic Greek sentiments ever expressed to Macedonian rulers (Herodotos), described memories of the Greekness of the Makedones (Hesiodos, Hellanikos, Herodotos), mentioned their participations among Greek troops and folk, membership of Macedonia in the associations of the Greeks, namely the Delphic Amphictyony which had long been an important Panhellenic (Herodotos, Thucydides, Aichines). Hence they all verify the same conclusion. Greeks viewed Macedonians as Greeks.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shared culture =/= being the same.
This answer is very shallow and has no meaning so are u saying that they shared same culture and a two different races, tribes, city staes but are still the same thing??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #5 “Foreign nations considered Macedonians as Greeks”

The ancient Roman, Persian, Indian, Jewish, Babylonian and Carthagenian testimonies are listing Macedonians among the other Hellenes, speaking the same language and in general Macedonians are portrayed as Hellenes fighting the Barbarians.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nazism held the belief that society was made up of a number of levels of human purity. Right at the top was the Aryans or Nordics, then the British and Western Europeans, then Jews, blacks, asians and finally Slavs.

Anyone below the Western European was simply classed as "undesirable". This was the same for the Macedonians and Greeks, who were seen simply as one and the same; differences in culture, way of life and the likes were simply ignored.

Um actually no in fact Hitler himself made a speech on the Greek resistance which he was faced with when the Greeks took up arms and were fighting off the Italians, Albanians and Germans..so successful were the Greeks that they held off the Italian and german resistance for 6months compared to france which fell in a couple of days and Greece at the time didn’t have the man power nor the weapons compared to the other allied nations and yet they fought bravely and even whinstone Churchill recited those famous words "the world will no longer say that Greeks fight as heroes, but heroes fight as Greeks". Hitler said:
"For reasons of historical necessity I have to admit that out of all the adversaries who have confronted us The Greeks fought with bold courage and highest disregard of death"-recorded by Herman Rauschning as he did with all Hitler's speeches,and mentioned in his book "

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #6 “Macedonian names are Greek”

In contrast with all their non-greek neighbours (Illyrians, Thracians, etc) ancient Macedonian names are either Greek or derive from Greek roots in a percentage of over 95%. According to the encyclopaedia Bolsaya Sovetskaya “In 200 names born from Macedonians born before the ascent of Philip II (359b.C.), hardly 5% are of non-greek origin. Non Greek names in small numbers can also be found in other Greek tribes.
We know some names of Gods and Heroes worshiped by the Macedonians. Among them, 39 are either pan-hellenic or worshiped by other Greek tribes, either purely macedonian, but with a Greek etymology [root]. 2 come from names of cities with a non-hellenic root but with a greek termination syllabe 3 are Thracian 1 is Egyptian All of the names of Macedonian Feasts that we know are Greek. Regarding the names of the months, 6 are common with other Greek calendars, and at least two more are also purely Greek. The idea that the Macedonians took the names of the months during their ‘hellenisation’ is out of the question, as in that case they would have taken an integral Greek calendar instead of creating an amalgam of different greek calendars and, more important, they would never invent themselves two Greek names of months. ” All these of course are taking place at a time where the Illyrian and Thracian names have in their vast majority non-greek etymologies.

Fact #7 “Ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect”

According to the eminent linquist, Olivier Masson, writing in 1996 for the “Oxford Classical Dictionary: ‘Macedonian Language”. “For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. ‘Ptolemaios’ is attested as early as Homer, ‘Ale3avdros’ occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- (’Alexandra’), ‘Laagos’, then ‘Lagos’, matches the Cyprian ‘Lawagos’, etc. The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like ‘Arridaios’ or ‘Sabattaras’, may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece). Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like ‘Berenika’ for ‘Ferenika’, etc.). Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb ‘opoka’ which is not Thessalian. We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.”
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shared culture =/= the same.
Again shallow meaningless comment need to explain what you mean by this in relation to the topic?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #8 “Alexander’s campaign Pan-Hellenic character”

Alexander the Great launched a Pan-hellenic campaign against Persia and through his conquests spread Hellenism in a vast colonizing wave throughout the Near East and created economically and culturally, a single world stretching from Greece to the Punjab in India with Greek (koine) as lingua franca. He built a network of almost thirty Greek cities throughout the empire, a building program that was expanded by later Hellenistic rulers. These became enclaves of Greek culture. Here gymnasia, baths, and theaters were built. The upper classes spoke koine Greek, wore Greek dress, absorbed Greek learning, adopted Greek customs, and took part in Greek athletics. Ancient sources reports as such and the pan-hellenic character of his campaign were the definitive statements of the Macedonian royalty and nobility.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, he spread Macedonian culture, which had becoome one and the same with Greek culture following the latters conquest.
How does the Macedonian culture all of a sudden tie in perfectly wif the greek culture without their being any clashed in language, festivals celebrated, ancient dances, politics, art, science, etc?? Your theory just lack essence and its rather odd to tell you the truth because many people from FYROm believe that Macedonians and Greeks were totally different and didn’t have a lot in common but that is just their views? So its rather odd that put out yet another false theory?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Fact #9 “Macedonians shared the same religion as the rest of Greeks”

Nowadays historians agree that Macedonians had the religious and cultural features of the rest Hellenic world. Like other Greek regions, regional characteristics have also to be noted especially near the borders.
Its quite interesting the fact that Macedonians also gave these deities the familiar Greek epithets, such as Agoraios, Basileus, Olympios, Hypsistos of Zeus, Basileia of Hera, Soter of Apollo, Hagemona and Soteira of Artemis, Boulaia of Hestia, etc.
The worship of the twelve Olympian gods in Macedonia is undoubted
and it is shown explicitely in the treaty between Philip V and Hannibal of Carthage “`In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO…and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS“.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
God, you like repeating yourself.
Yes i do because you obviously cant understand the meaning
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I believe that in future the team at Assasin's Creed should learn all there is about the history of the images and symbols which they put into the game so as to avoid this happening again.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps you might do the same.
Perhaps you need to reconsider what you have stated because your counter arguments are all very meaningless and lack any evidence so yea!!! Come talk when you actually find something with some meaning and don’t just come out blurting odd theories just for the sake of it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
i am sorry to say however that as a result of this i will not be buying the new Assasin's Creed Brotherhood game due to the fact that it insults me and my fellow Greeks.

Regards,
Stav
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You already know that the Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood will be insulting Greek culture, and by extension, yourself, without knowing anything about the game... Man, you're good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good all i can hope for is that Byzantine Empire isnt included this game as i don’t want people screwing it up!!



Document from the U.S. foreign State department.
"U.S. State Dep. Foreign Relations Vol. VII, Circular Airgram [868.014], Secretary of State E. Stettinius, December 26th 1944,
to all consular officials, informing of the act to create a separate "Macedonia," as a "cloak for aggression against Greece......This Government considers talk of "Macedonian Nation", "Macedonian Fatherland", or "Macedonian National Consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic or political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

In other words, it shows that Macedonia was a greek state, and that FYROM was created as a seperate phony Macedonia containing a phoney Macedonian race representing no ethnic reality

here's the document:

http://macedonia-evidence.org/documentation.html


THE “OATH”
OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT
(OPIS, 324 BC)

“IT IS MY WISH, NOW THAT WARS ARE COMING TO AN END, THAT YOU SHOULD ALL BE HAPPY IN PEACE. FROM NOW ON, LET ALL MORTALS LIVE AS ONE PEOPLE, IN FELLOWSHIP, FOR THE GOOD OF ALL. SEE THE WHOLE WORLD AS YOUR HOMELAND, WITH LAWS COMMON TO ALL, WHERE THE BEST WILL GOVERN REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE. UNLIKE THE NARROWMINDED, I MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN GREEKS AND BARBARIANS. THE ORIGIN OF CITIZENS, OR THE RACE INTO WHICH THEY WERE BORN, IS OF NO CONCERN TO ME. I HAVE ONLY ONE CRITERION BY WHICH TO DISTINGUISH THEM VIRTUE.
FOR ME, ANY GOOD FOREIGNER IS A GREEK AND ANY BAD GREEK IS WORSE THAN A BARBARIAN. IF DISPUTES EVER OCCUR AMONG YOU, YOU WILL NOT RESORT TO WEAPONS BUT WILL SOLVE THEM IN PEACE. IF NEED BE, I SHALL ARBITRATE BETWEEN YOU. SEE GOD NOT AS AN AUTOCRATIC DESPOT, BUT AS THE COMMON FATHER OF ALL AND THUS YOUR CONDUCT WILL BE LIKE THE LIVES OF BROTHERS WITHIN THE SAME FAMILY. I, ON MY PART, SEE YOU ALL AS EQUAL, WHETHER YOU ARE WHITE OR DARK-SKINNED. AND I SHOULD LIKE YOU NOT SIMPLY TO BE SUBJECTS OF MY COMMONWEALTH, BUT MEMBERS OF IT, PARTNERS OF IT. TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY, I SHALL STRIVE TO DO WHAT I HAVE PROMISED. KEEP AS A SYMBOL OF LOVE THIS OATH WHICH WE HAVE TAKEN TONIGHT WITH OUR LIBATIONS”.


And for those who don’t give a damn about this issue think about this...Greece was conquered by Rome, Rome was civilized by Greece...had it not been for alexander spreading the greek culture to the world then this very game probably wouldn’t have existed nor the world been the same due to the very impact which greek art, science, astronomy, architecture, philosophy had on the rest of the world and in particular in ancient Rome so there you go this does actually serve a purpose...

Murcuseo
07-01-2010, 05:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheLeoCrow:

You do realise that this is an oxymoron. I can make a website saying that the sky is green and then reference this site to give validity when i say that it's green. I'm not saying that you created this site but it is made by FYROM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was my point, in 2 seconds I could find a website that disproved his theory but he maintains his opinions are fact and gives us absolutely no evidence to back it up. He claims Ubisoft should change a historical reference in the game purely because it doesn't fall inline with his political opinions of which only apply in modern culture... that in itself is an oxymoron!

I'm still seriously confused by this, you claim your problem is with FYROM, right?

The portrait title in the game is 'Alexander the Great,Macedonia' not 'Alexander the Great,FYROM' so the reference in game is historical not modern. It has nothing to do with his place in modern culture!

You've used this minor issue as a platform for your political views and then posted them in a completely ignorant place. As I said earlier find a place where your opinions can be discussed from both sides equally rather than a gaming forum...

Close this damn topic lol

ellas_makedonia
07-01-2010, 06:02 AM
read the above post..well sure you can find many websites which are riddled with "republic of macedonian" propaganda but the rather odd thing is that each website gives different information on how this country came about..some claim they were confused bulgarians, other say their serbs that were ethnic macedoninas...and when your oun political leader represents his country and states in a public forum that he and his people are not "macedoninas but bulgarians" just shows how unclear their side of the story is..in comparison to the views of the greeks we see a steady flow of evidence since ancient times, through medieval byzantium, the ottoman occupation, ww1, balkan wars, ww2 through to modern times. the greek views do not change according to what month it is unlike the views in FYROm.

El_Sjietah
07-01-2010, 06:30 AM
Seems like no matter what I say, I'll only get ignored, so here's a pic of a zebra climbing a giraffe.

http://gilgiardelli.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/animal-fun.jpg

bokeef04
07-01-2010, 06:46 AM
ellas_makedonia:

one last question, if you don't mind old paintings saying Alexander the Great of Macedonia, why did you start this thread in the first place, the game takes place at the end of the 15th century meaning the paintings in it were made before 1499 at the latest, i could be wrong about that, but then it would make less sense for Ezio to have them on his wall

actually, also, if you hate Macedonia so much why is your name Ellas_Makedonia?

ellas_makedonia
07-01-2010, 07:09 AM
it doesnt say Alexander the Great of Macedonia it says Alexander the Great, Macedonia(hence the fabricated country not the region in northern greece as i explained in previous posts). i am a macedonina born in the northern region of greece called Macedonia but i am Greek! i dont hate macedonina's but i do hate people who try to make claim to the historical and territorial connection which the region of macedonia has in greece as it is a breach of human rights violation. that is why FYROm by calling themselves and creating their "Republic of Macedonina" are stealing the very history of greece which is wrong in so many ways..

in relation to the painting they are not the ones from italy as it is in the glyph mode that this appears. one of the portraits of alexander the great is a 17th century painting so yea.

thekyle0
07-01-2010, 07:15 AM
Robson, let's just take a look at some fo your posts.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
@ellas_makedonia:

This thread should have died a week ago, if historical fact offends you then you should pick another subject. History shouldn't be rewritten just to ease your political objectives... your opinions apply in modern culture but are irrelevant when applied to history. That's something you're going to have to live with... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:

As I said you're trying to rewrite history to satisfy your political gain, this isn't the place to do it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
I can translate that for everyone..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ellas_makedonia, translated by Robson:
I can translate that for everyone..
<span class="ev_code_RED">If you're view fits in with my narrow minded political outlook I will take what you say on board, if it doesn't I will completely ignore you and continue to repeat myself regardless of it being utterly futile.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson:
He claims Ubisoft should change a historical reference in the game purely because it doesn't fall inline with his political opinions...You've used this minor issue as a platform for your political views </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson:
The reason people 'back down' is because there's only so many times you can have a conversation before it gets repetitive and boring and seeing as you're only here to present your own views and completely dismiss others it's not a conversation worth having. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Repetitive indeed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson:
Funny how a simple 2 second search on google can disprove almost everything you say, I think that's the more relevant point here. Also, every time you quote someone or endlessly type out the same thing over and over you don't add any relevant links to help prove your point. This site is for discussing AC not for someone to air their political grievances <span class="ev_code_BLUE">Yeah, that's another one)</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson:
That was my point, in 2 seconds I could find a website that disproved his theory but he maintains his opinions are fact </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If that's the case then please do. That would be better than you continuing to...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
give us absolutely no evidence to back it up </div></BLOCKQUOTE> That, or you could fulfill your intentions to stop posting here.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bokeef04:
actually, also, if you hate Macedonia so much why is your name Ellas_Makedonia? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe it's a pun to imply Macedonia is made up. Modern Macedonia, that is.

Ru1986
07-01-2010, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
Seems like no matter what I say, I'll only get ignored, so here's a pic of a zebra climbing a giraffe.

http://gilgiardelli.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/animal-fun.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL Your a legend i diddnt ignore you mate thats why i have not commented on this topic since however a zebra climbing a giraffe that cannot be ignored. Also I got ignored on my last comment too so am in the same boat mate.

Murcuseo
07-01-2010, 07:53 AM
@ thekyle0: You're obviously trying to step in and be a smartarse so let's just get this out the way first. If you have a problem with me send me a PM and we can sort it out there... otherwise shut the hell up.

My being repetitive was based on the fact he was choosing to ignore the parts that would disprove his theory. It was also done in the vain hope that it might sink in and he would realise his inane political agenda was misplaced in a gaming forum.

I find it hard to let someone as ignorant as him just spray his elitism all over the place, especially as this isn't the place to do it! I said I was going to stop posting here, I didn't... unlike you I'm obviously not scared to have an opinion so take your foot out the door and resheath your blade. you can find someone else to stab in the back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hopefully this will have derailed the thread enough to get it closed...

BTOG46
07-01-2010, 08:17 AM
Time this was closed, the argument is merely going around in circles and attracting flame posts and spam.

If any of you feel the need to continue this rather pointless political diatribe, please do so in PM's and not on the forums.