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View Full Version : First impressions of the new heroes.



PanzerShrekonin
10-17-2018, 05:38 AM
The two strongest are probably the Assassin and actually, I would say the Shaolin but I think its the vanguard.

Heavy is defintely the weakest of the four in dueling, but not terrible. Shaolin is kind mid of the four...

AThe assassin however is basically the new shaman. You have OOS punishment even worse than the highlander. The ability to constantly knock down with UNBLOCKABLE lights, is absolutely insane. Not to mention those lights come out almost instantly since they are just pokes.


Over all, I actually enjoy the new expansion and hope to see more work done for the game.

GODISGOOD_5459
10-17-2018, 05:50 AM
I dont know why the hell ubisoft would do some dumb **** like that fr these new characters is broken as crap they nerfed everybody else but have this wulong faction doing ****ing backflips off walls i dont know what world anybody is living in if they think any of the old characters stand a chance against anybody in this new faction the shear kits these new characters have is unbelieveable look at their damn feats its just op they need to replace all the nerfs they did for the old characters for them to even be a match for this op characters looks like i will be taking another couple month long break from for honor until they fix and balance this **** the correct way its absolutely ridiculous

OhThatTickles
10-17-2018, 11:42 AM
This is an opinion from someone who has only fought [I]against[I] the Wu-lin faction fighters, but a longtime player. This is an initial opinion, definitely subject to change with time.

The new players seem really cool. Well rounded and dynamic kits with cool-looking animations. Problem is that they seem nothing like the old characters. In fact, most of the old characters seem like nothing more than a formality and name tag at this point. I'll do one example, since it was the one I noticed most acutely:
Shaolin is a perfected Nobushi. Permanent hidden stance, good dodge mobility, interesting and variable UBs, lightly armored, fast poke combos and a powerful Kensei-like dodge attack. Now I know that Nobu isn't the most dazzling character, true, but the difference should not be so blatant between Shaolin and Nobu, who should play as birds of a feather. I say this with the experience of a rep 23 Nobu, and have played since beta. The stark contrast is alarming, and I suspect Shogu, Aramusha and others will be utterly unplayable now (for that select few who didn't feel that way prior to expansion). I worry that the focus on the new, profitable characters will leave our poor, woe-begotten fellows in the dust. Balance has to be priority one, and not with the lazy negligence of past balancing changes.

ytrecvbnm
10-17-2018, 02:58 PM
I'm not the best duelist, but I have never been smashed like the Jiang Jun did to my Shinobi last night.

The other player let me take him down to needing one more hit, then would just rip me apart in seconds.

If he wasn't messing with me, he would have taken me down 3 times in under 30 seconds.

chukblok
10-17-2018, 03:58 PM
The shaolin bot in arcade absolutely demolished me....i was locked the ENTIRE time. ive never been frustrated until now. Still love the game too. but i had to turn it off i was so frustrated. first time since game launched ive felt that way

HazelrahFirefly
10-17-2018, 04:42 PM
Let's just take it easy for a little while guys. The new heroes were JUST released. You need time to adjust to combating them.

I am a bit surprised at the OP mentioning that the Nuxia is strong... I see her as remarkable weak, compared to the other three anyway. She only really has her lights and traps, and the latter has to be used scarcely or will be punished heavily.

Knight_Raime
10-17-2018, 05:56 PM
The assassin is the weakest hero in any game mode. Her main gimmick is traps which can be stuffed on reaction with a light. She on the other hand HAS to know you're going to light her in order to feint and parry your light. JJ is really strong in 4's just because of his feats alone. But in duels he's "okay." And this is mainly due to his two 400ms soft feints from dodge attacks. and his parry choke helps him with some max punishes.

Tiandi is the strongest of the bunch due to decent feats in 4's and his dodges still being incredibly safe. If his palm strike was still confirmed on block when you were OOS then he'd be as broken as he was initially. Shaolin is best in duels. He can do alright in 4's due to his feats. But the fact that all of his qui moves are chain finishers he's not the best when it comes to team fighting/ganks.

It's unsurprising people would think Nuxia is strong. She's got spammable 400ms lights. and to the average populace that's basically god powers.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-17-2018, 06:06 PM
Well, 400ms are god powers as long as Ubi servers work the way they do and as long players with extremely high ping are allowed to play the game as well lag switch on purpose which I see every single day in my region. How is ok for player with constant 220-230ms to stay in a game? Or how someone can have 15-17ms unless he starts to fight, suddenly it is 500-700ms?
In those circumstances, 400ms attack is impossible to react except by pure luck. Hell, even 500ms is way to hard to react to, if for example I have 35ms and above mentioned guy has 220 or 230.

Knight_Raime
10-17-2018, 06:08 PM
Well, 400ms are god powers as long as Ubi servers work the way they do and as long players with extremely high ping are allowed to play the game as well lag switch on purpose which I see every single day in my region. How is ok for player with constant 220-230ms to stay in a game? Or how someone can have 15-17ms unless he starts to fight, suddenly it is 500-700ms?

Even with perfect connection 400ms attacks are not any easier to deal with. And bad connection messes with a lot of things. You can't balance around that.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-17-2018, 06:11 PM
Even with perfect connection 400ms attacks are not any easier to deal with. And bad connection messes with a lot of things. You can't balance around that.

They could if they wanted to. Limit maximum ping someone can have to reasonable number and do something about detecting constant changes between very low and very high ping and automatically kick those players.

MuscleTech12018
10-17-2018, 06:12 PM
Nevermind the trash heroes, ( tipical heroes for the china / sci-fi anime fanboy ) . We know Ubisoft is in desperate need of new players and China is the only market where they had zero success with For Honor .... but WHY is BREACH so bad ? My GOD ! I'm so dissapointed...

NHLGoldenKnight
10-17-2018, 06:19 PM
Now when you mentioned anime fan boys, I find voice of new heroes to be offensive. Ok, I don't care for political correctness and I am far from liberal, but if I was Chinese , it would bother me. It is way over the top, similar to older Hollywood movies in which Asian roles would be played by white actors (they would put some silly make up on them) and those actors would try to speak in Chinese "accent " as much as possible which was ridiculous.

jmac70
10-17-2018, 06:36 PM
Hate them and I already missed the older seasons

chukblok
10-17-2018, 06:49 PM
I love breach. best mode.
and player base is growing im fairly certain

DefiledDragon
10-17-2018, 07:08 PM
Now when you mentioned anime fan boys, I find voice of new heroes to be offensive. Ok, I don't care for political correctness and I am far from liberal, but if I was Chinese , it would bother me. It is way over the top, similar to older Hollywood movies in which Asian roles would be played by white actors (they would put some silly make up on them) and those actors would try to speak in Chinese "accent " as much as possible which was ridiculous.

Shaolin walks like Bruce Lee and sounds like Bruce Lee (at least a parody of him). I'm surprised he doesn't look like Bruce Lee.

PanzerShrekonin
10-17-2018, 09:59 PM
Even with perfect connection 400ms attacks are not any easier to deal with. And bad connection messes with a lot of things. You can't balance around that.

If she gets you OOS, she's much more powerful than highlander with the fact that she has an unblockable light that knocks you down.


and im talking duels and brawls. Not where feats are enabled like in dominoin.

She is one of the best duelists ive seen with the fact her kit is ENTIRELY on those unblockable lights.

The heavy is not that good and very predictable and punishable.

The shaolin and the vanguard are in a really good spot. I cant say they are OP or weak, but I think right where they should be. Heavy is very underwhelming.


Im playing brawls, and im seeing almost a Shaolin every match and then I see the vanguard more than the assassin... then I see the assassin more than the heavy who im rarely seeing at all.

its already showing just how underwhelming the heavy is.

Im not saying hes terrible. I hear hes amazing in 4 v 4's but in duels, hes absolutely horrid.

yfkutfui
10-17-2018, 10:26 PM
i only had a brief go last night but first thoughts on the new faction,

firstly much more in depth move set right across the board, when i think of the poor Raider with his 3 moves in comparison i just shake my head with pity?

the old Fat one - very interesting, seems super powerful, this quick stamina regen is cry cray, coupled with his stamina draining abilities he looks very strong.

the monk - didn't have time to try him

the Tandia? - insane kick? send opponents half way across the map, looks real interesting, the palm smash and follow up is good for opening up, very viable.

The assassin chick - now this ones real interesting, she has this trap thing that when activated can negate all block's/parry's and superior block properties, i think when people figure out how to play her really well i think its going to get real crazy, its like she's been designed as a direct turtle smasher, early days i know but those Conq turtles that have been ruling the roost for the last while must be getting worried? and the poor old Musha is getting screwed even more with this?, with his speed reduced his all-block counters are now completely pointless against this assassin, he's now completely pointless period? he's right down there in Shugoki class, in fact the Shug is probably better than him now.

Knight_Raime
10-17-2018, 11:09 PM
If she gets you OOS, she's much more powerful than highlander with the fact that she has an unblockable light that knocks you down.


and im talking duels and brawls. Not where feats are enabled like in dominoin.

She is one of the best duelists ive seen with the fact her kit is ENTIRELY on those unblockable lights.

The heavy is not that good and very predictable and punishable.

The shaolin and the vanguard are in a really good spot. I cant say they are OP or weak, but I think right where they should be. Heavy is very underwhelming.


Im playing brawls, and im seeing almost a Shaolin every match and then I see the vanguard more than the assassin... then I see the assassin more than the heavy who im rarely seeing at all.

its already showing just how underwhelming the heavy is.

Im not saying hes terrible. I hear hes amazing in 4 v 4's but in duels, hes absolutely horrid.

I was speaking both 4's and duels.
What unblockable light are you talking about with Nuxia? are you referring to her trap attack? If so I already said why it's bad. You can stuff it on reaction with a 500ms light regardless of what she was attempting to do. When you're OOS all you have to do is move your guard direction away from her attack on reaction. Her trap will whiff and she'll follow up with a 400ms light that's unreactable. And yeah that's decent OOS. But HL is still far better with OOS pressure because any incorrect read is met with 40 damage. Basically Nuxia oos game=part reaction part read with moderate damage. HL oos game= entirely read with high damage.

Heavy is just meh. He's not bad. But he's not good. unlike Nuxia who has one major flaw (being the borderline useless traps) Jiang jun's downfall is a pile of little issues. Like sifu stance having poor dodge frames and only one offensive option out of it, bad hitboxes on his wide sweeping moves, etc.

In duels he's got 3 main things going for him. His forward dodge heavy mix up, his side dodge heavy mix up, and his parry counter.
Forward dodge mix up can be soft feinted into a 400ms kick which has good tracking on early dodge. This kick can wall splat which guarantees a top heavy. Side dodge has extended dodge frames so it's decent at avoiding some mix ups. and the attack can be soft feinted into a decent damage light from the opposite side.
And his parry counter throws the target a good distance while doing around 80 stamina damage. This helps him setup his forward dash heavy mix up easier. and when you OOS someone with the choke you can get a pretty meaty OOS punish since it knocks them down.

Those strengths with good stamina management due to sifu stance and the ability to cancel recoveries with sifu and having some pretty meaty damage punishes means he's alright in duels. Not interesting. and could be a lot better. But not bad. I'd place him in high B or low A tier in duels. But that's just from knowing what his kit has to offer at first glance. Once I can play him in two weeks time i'll have a better idea.

I still stick with my original assessment though. Tiandi is the best hero of the bunch regardless of game mode. Then it's shaolin in duels and Jiang jun in 4's. Nuxia is the weakest of the group regardless of game mode. This is of course speaking in high tier play. Nuxia will no doubt be the center of complaints for the casual player base because they can't handle speed.

HazelrahFirefly
10-17-2018, 11:14 PM
Nuxia's animations, including light attacks, seem extremely telegraphed. She should become the easiest assassin to deal with.

Hormly
10-17-2018, 11:15 PM
Fighting a shaolin with my warlord feels like stepping into a tornado trying to defend myself from flying debris moving at 80mph in all directions.

All I do is step into range, an try to survive the flurry of strikes, feints and unblockables while desperately seeking a parry as its the only way I can mount an offense with my slow and predictable LH HL

I'm simply too slow and limited in kit depth to compete with characters who's kits feel like they are 3-4 times as varied as mine, it just doesn't feel fun anymore. Light heavy, heavy light... sigh

This isn't a new problem, its been obviousl since shinobi and cent hit the scene that the OGs were being phased out, but it seems like the wu lin and here to strike the final nail an bury the original cast. Why pick a warlord over the new heavy??

UNSC_Oatmeal
10-17-2018, 11:25 PM
Shaolin has 1ms light attacks on console.

yfkutfui
10-17-2018, 11:38 PM
Fighting a shaolin with my warlord feels like stepping into a tornado trying to defend myself from flying debris moving at 80mph in all directions.

All I do is step into range, an try to survive the flurry of strikes, feints and unblockables while desperately seeking a parry as its the only way I can mount an offense with my slow and predictable LH HL

I'm simply too slow and limited in kit depth to compete with characters who's kits feel like they are 3-4 times as varied as mine, it just doesn't feel fun anymore. Light heavy, heavy light... sigh

This isn't a new problem, its been obviousl since shinobi and cent hit the scene that the OGs were being phased out, but it seems like the wu lin and here to strike the final nail an bury the original cast. Why pick a warlord over the new heavy??

aah WL?, my first main, ill always have a soft spot for him for sure and have the upmost respect for the guys that can still play him well after all the beatings he's taken from the Nerf hammer, but i do agree and think your bowing to the inevitable, these new guys are just so in depth, have so many more options its just daunting for S1 guys who haven't had a major re-work, how can WL a Nobushi a Raider compete with these guys? Qi stance? traps? Sufi Stance? deflects? dancing tiger dodge? a kung-fu kick that launches you half way across the map? stamina chokes? shin kicks? hyper armor on top of hyper Armour?

there there Raiders, don't worry you may not have a bleed, a deflect. not a hyper Armour in sight but you've always got the good ole stun tap variation and the most telegraphed and parried "unblockable " in FH history? dont you just feel good?

PanzerShrekonin
10-17-2018, 11:44 PM
So wait... Niandu... with those unblockable lights, you just turn your guard away and she doesn't hit you with it?

yfkutfui
10-17-2018, 11:53 PM
So wait... Niandu... with those unblockable lights, you just turn your guard away and she doesn't hit you with it?

no not quite, if she presses square as she's throwing it negates any block or parry you may be trying to use, if your not blocking and she presses square nothing happens to you, if she doesn't press square and your not guarding you get hit like a normal light, it depends on what you both do, its bad news for turtles though.

DefiledDragon
10-18-2018, 12:00 AM
I hate the fact that they've decided to give one hero an ability that completely nullifies defence entirely. To me it just shows that they really do have no idea how to balance the game without relying on gimmicks and cheese. Sad.

PanzerShrekonin
10-18-2018, 12:49 AM
All I knwo is. Niandi knocks you DOWN with massive damage. Its Gladiator knock down on crack.