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View Full Version : Why Remove The Special Minion Clearing Attacks?



Vakris_One
10-13-2018, 04:16 AM
Why would you delete this nice piece of individual character personality from the game? It's not like everyone couldn't just use their locked on attack chains for optimal minion clearing anyway. This change does nothing to enhance the gameplay experience and is instead getting rid of content, which is just bad. No update should actually be taking content away like this.

This is a pointless change because everyone can already choose to use their locked on attack chains if they need more optimal minion clearing. You're taking away player choice by straight up deleting unlocked minion attack chains. Not to mention you'll be indirectly nerfing natural minion clearers like Warden, whose minion clearing heavy chains are better at hitting multiple minions than his normal locked on chains.

This is a bad change because:

1) It actually makes the game have less entertaining bits of content when vs minions.

and

2) Indirectly nerfs the minion clearing ability of some characters who don't normally have wide sweeping attacks in their kit.

Characters like Warden, Shugoki, PK and Shinobi for example actually have better minion clearing attacks while unlocked and using their special minion clearing chains. This will be a nerf to them that didn't need to happen at all because there is nothing wrong with having special minion chain attacks via unlock attacking.

I'll write it again: everyone can already switch to using their locked on chains for the most optimal minion clearing if they need to - Warden for example did not. There is simply no reason to remove player choice and unique expressions of character individuality like this.

Lord_Cherubi
10-13-2018, 05:07 AM
This 100%. I've always loved most of the minion clear animations, especially Warden has a great feel to it. On some occasions locked attacks might be more effective (Aramusha) but it doesn't feel or look right, you're just chopping them down like they have no weight at all

Roseguard_Cpt
10-13-2018, 05:26 AM
Is this completely removed? Or is it just that you cant one shot the new breach minions so the animation doesn't play?

Vakris_One
10-13-2018, 12:22 PM
Is this completely removed? Or is it just that you cant one shot the new breach minions so the animation doesn't play?
According to the patch notes it's being completely removed for all minions.

Illyrian_King
10-13-2018, 01:30 PM
This is really bad !!!

Like if it wasn't already easy enough to cleave through the Dominion minions.

Who's f*cking idea was this??

The argumentation was, that chars like Shaman or Highlander have slow animations ... since when is Shaman a minion fighter??

They also removed the ending cutscenes from Dominion, which I really loved. They made things more immersive, and they simply replace it with that new childish victory screen?!

This changes are really not good!

Edit: The community should really have been asked about this. This is such a unnecessary no-benefit change.

Arekonator
10-13-2018, 02:24 PM
Meanwhile black box blocking chat still isnt fixed.

1. Break something that works.
2. People complain,
3. Fail to fix it for two seasons despite it being 5-minute job.

I wonder why people complain about development team. :confused:

Knight_Raime
10-13-2018, 03:50 PM
imo I think it was done to make minion clearing easier to understand. Some characters like shaman for instance had awful minion clear unlocked.
Same reason aramusha got nerfed again. to make things easier for the wealth of new people coming with the update.

DefiledDragon
10-13-2018, 04:22 PM
Poor Musha. I believe he's getting a new set of weapons as compensation though. They're throwing away all his old, dusty steel swords and he's going to be wielding these, with appropriate damage reduction applied.

https://cdn3.volusion.com/jrqdl.gaxzk/v/vspfiles/photos/NINJA-6-2.jpg

Vakris_One
10-13-2018, 04:53 PM
imo I think it was done to make minion clearing easier to understand. Some characters like shaman for instance had awful minion clear unlocked.
Same reason aramusha got nerfed again. to make things easier for the wealth of new people coming with the update.
I guess but people already understood how to use optimal minion clearing for their heroes and if they didn't it was simply a normal part of the learning process of getting better at the game. Deleting a piece of their game that isn't broken just for the sake of dumbing down the learning process to kindergarden levels is not good and sets an incredibly bad precedent in my opinion. Are we going to get giant floating neon signs pointing to objectives next reading "stand here to capture"?

And yeah, Aramusha is basically a minion with guard stance at this point. His tweak is a lose/lose equation making him even weaker at high level while further frustrating lower level players who already struggled with the 500ms deadly feint side lights anyway. Pretty much as pointless a change as deleting minion unlock chains for the sake of dumbing the game down.

Knight_Raime
10-13-2018, 05:49 PM
I guess but people already understood how to use optimal minion clearing for their heroes and if they didn't it was simply a normal part of the learning process of getting better at the game. Deleting a piece of their game that isn't broken just for the sake of dumbing down the learning process to kindergarden levels is not good and sets an incredibly bad precedent in my opinion. Are we going to get giant floating neon signs pointing to objectives next reading "stand here to capture"?

And yeah, Aramusha is basically a minion with guard stance at this point. His tweak is a lose/lose equation making him even weaker at high level in order to frustrate lower level players who already struggled with the 500ms deadly feint side lights anyway. Pretty much as pointless a change as deleting minion unlock chains for the sake of dumbing the game down.

People who've been playing awhile knew optimal minion clear. Brand new players won't. Hence why I said "influx of new players with marching fire."
Not that I really agree with the change. They're removing an aspect of their game instead of teaching the players. In fact if you look at any source material from Ubi themselves it's all really bad at teaching people how to play their game. The main site they direct people to makes stuff up about heros that anyone who's played said hero would be like "who are you talking about?" The fight tutorial videos use dated footage. Which means incorrect animations and incorrect information. They also didn't ever really serve as a way to teach you the hero. More so just a showcase of said moves.

Training mode itself isn't a good tool because you can't make your own personal recorded command for a bot to repeat. You can't tell the bot which side to defend from. And bots buffer attacks because they don't know how to delay attacks. Meaning it gives a false impression of how you can deal with said attacks. Since buffered attacks are slower. And from what i've heard they've already messed up with their newest update to training mode. Because the centurion combo they showcased isn't really a thing that's used. So people worry they messed up with other heros. I personally didn't watch. And the small trials they have you run are eh. Not bad but not good. The best way to learn for honor isn't from the game itself. And that's just a drop in the bucket of several other sad things about the game.

And yeah. Aramusha is even worse of a joke of a hero. It really sucks that they finally took a stance on light spam and then decided to appease those low tier complaints anyway by nerfing him. It's another thing they've contradicted themselves on. Worse than even that is it doesn't make him more pallatable to fight for newer players. Because he hits harder with less hits now. And his deadly feints were already difficult for lower tier players. Now that they're 400ms it's going to be even worse for said players. And this isn't even a buff for him in high tier. Because you can back dash on reaction to seeing the heavy finisher and Aramusha can't do squat to punish that. Feint into GB, the deadly feint itself, and the raw heavy all will be defended against or whiffed. Not to mention he still has a 1100ms back dash. and since they increased the combo speed to 200ms inbetween each hit he's now worse in 2's/4's for target switching. and this coupled with the out of lock attack change means he's even worse at minion clearing now. Plus the removal of the stuns guaranteeing top light now means the twin vipers mix up is basically gone.

I know these changes were their attempt at pushing things out faster and that they're not done tweaking him yet. But that doesn't make any of what I said okay.

UbiInsulin
10-13-2018, 07:14 PM
Here's what the Patch Notes say on this topic:



Out of Lock attack on Minions


We have given all heroes the ability to use their Chained Attacks while Out Of Lock against Soldiers, Pikemen and Archers. These Out Of Lock Chained Attacks also do not end the strike portion when hitting a Soldier/Pikeman/Archer – which allows the hero to “cleave through” nearby minions.

Developer comment: This should improve the ability of players to clear these minions. Previously, we had very long animations when attacking minions while you were Out Of Lock, but these were very inefficient at clearing the minions (Shaman or Highlander’s very long animations, for example). Previously, we’d see heroes like Aramusha enter a Lock State to fight these minions most efficiently. So now, we instead allow the Out Of Lock Chained Attacks to be a strong option to clear these enemies.

Furthermore – we’ve improved some targeting and movement issues involved with selecting which opponent to launch an Out Of Lock attack towards.


That being said, I'll definitely be sending this thread and your comments to the team.

Illyrian_King
10-13-2018, 07:55 PM
imo I think it was done to make minion clearing easier to understand. Some characters like shaman for instance had awful minion clear unlocked.
Same reason aramusha got nerfed again. to make things easier for the wealth of new people coming with the update.

Yep but Shaman is not meant to clear minions at all. And aramusha simply had to activate his stance. The removal is useless and just contra productive.

Baggin_
10-13-2018, 08:26 PM
I main Aramusha so i find it nice to not have to lock to lite spam them minions. I do see the frustrations with other characters though.

As far as Aramushas' "nerf" I don't find it that bad that he doesn't get his guarenteed lite after side heavy. It was only 12 damage from that top lite and they upped the damaged of his side heavy by 10 points. It's only a 2 point loss. Having the deadly feint normalized to 400ms will help a lot more i believe.

Helnekromancer
10-13-2018, 09:35 PM
Wait really? Clearing minions with cool animations was the only way I could tolerate playing Dominion and it was fun hitting people with minion attacks. If someone sucks at clearing minions that's their fault, every hero does not need to be perfect. And if it did took me awhile to clear minions on some Heroes the animations were fun to watch, especially Shugoki.

Shugoki would swing so fast and punch minions, doing all these unique moves but the moment he sees another player all he could do was swing like he's trying not to crap his pants and headbutt.

I was really looking forward to the new Hero minion attacks, because they are so flashy and you could catch aggressive players who lunge at you.

Illyrian_King
10-14-2018, 01:08 PM
Wait really? Clearing minions with cool animations was the only way I could tolerate playing Dominion and it was fun hitting people with minion attacks. If someone sucks at clearing minions that's their fault, every hero does not need to be perfect. And if it did took me awhile to clear minions on some Heroes the animations were fun to watch, especially Shugoki.

Shugoki would swing so fast and punch minions, doing all these unique moves but the moment he sees another player all he could do was swing like he's trying not to crap his pants and headbutt.

I was really looking forward to the new Hero minion attacks, because they are so flashy and you could catch aggressive players who lunge at you.

They somehow compensated the small movesets of the heroes we have, when i saw my chars doing some crazy shiit with a minion.

It definitely is a part of the Hero identity and this change should be removed, as it doesn't improve anything since you already can do the same just by switching to guard stance.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-14-2018, 02:17 PM
Clearing minions with shugoki is kinda like bowling and a zone finisher... If I get 80 percent of them by doing this I'm a happy camper.

Emperor.Wukong
10-14-2018, 03:00 PM
i will defenetly miss the animations for killing the minions , really made me feel like a champion that just tosses the common soldier around with little effort :/

Dry.Fish
10-14-2018, 04:14 PM
I hope there is some tracking to it at least.

THE_MAD_KlNG
10-14-2018, 05:04 PM
I absolutely loved watching the way some heros killed minions. The raider ***** slapped them or picked them up and threw them like 4 feat. It made clearing minions more enjoyable. I understand that some heros have worse clearing potential than others. But why not just change there animations to be better, than taking away everyone's else's? It's kinda a downgrade overall.

Illyrian_King
10-14-2018, 06:08 PM
I absolutely loved watching the way some heros killed minions. The raider ***** slapped them or picked them up and threw them like 4 feat. It made clearing minions more enjoyable. I understand that some heros have worse clearing potential than others. But why not just change there animations to be better, than taking away everyone's else's? It's kinda a downgrade overall.

Most likely it's just because it's expensive to do all the Motion Capture. It's almost like doing several executions just for minions ... this for 4 new heroes ;b

This is a really bad change, and I really hope they make a 180° turn.

FlyinBeef
10-14-2018, 07:00 PM
aramusha got nerfed again
Maybe I don't understand something, but he was improved, what kind of nerf are you talking about?
He got faster lights and feints, is it a nerf?

RealJayDee1984
10-15-2018, 09:01 AM
Wait, WHAT?! That is such a ridiculously bad decision. Why the hell would one decide to take away already created and long established elements of the game, that did a great job of enhancing the individual heroes' identity? I was finally getting excited for the new Marching Fire stuff, and in turn they decide to make the game less cool for some reason?

Please, please revert this asap, dear folks at Ubi!

ChampionRuby50g
10-15-2018, 09:40 AM
Seems like Ubisoft again is fixing what isn’t broken.

Vakris_One
10-15-2018, 02:17 PM
Maybe I don't understand something, but he was improved, what kind of nerf are you talking about?
He got faster lights and feints, is it a nerf?
He was not improved at all I'm afraid. Low level players who struggled against him before will still struggle against him now so no change there. But at high level he was nerfed because of the way he is played and the knowledge high level players have on this character. His entire chain's hit reaction was slowed down in favour of 400ms side lights from deadly feint but you can back dodge anything he can try to feint into so 400ms doesn't matter. He has no way of hitting anyone who does this to him and instead is opened up to a free punish for trying to attack his opponent - fantastic stuff. And if that wasn't bad enough his top light was slowed down, which means he no longer gets his guaranteed 42 damage light parry/wall splat punish that served as the best way into his deadly feint mixups and some chip damage (yes, Aramusha has chip damage to consider as an "ideal" outcome whereas most heroes have openers and actual pressure and he is being robbed of even that much).

Others have already covered this in more depth so I'll just link them here.

The short version:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WpdBqxDIhVg&feature=youtu.be


The long version:


So hopefully you see this. I assume these intended changes were to make Aramusha easier to deal with for new players whilst making a single buff in order to make him better in higher tier play. So i'm going to explain why these changes do neither of these things. We will start with helping newer players. I will take each bullet point and explain what it does for both new players in high tier. Then I will summarize it so you can take it to the devs in a more digestable format. I'll go ahead and keep my personal feelings out of this as it's not needed:

Newer players:

~Side Heavy damage increased to 40 damage (from 30.)

This doesn't aid newer players in anyway because it means they will die quicker.

~Infinite Top Light damage increased to 16 (from 12.)

This doesn't aid newer players in anyway because it means they will die quicker.

~All Deadly Feint attacks are normalized to 400ms (sides were 500ms.)

This doesn't aid newer players. They already struggle to block basic 500ms attacks.

~Side Heavy Opener now causes a Medium Hit Reaction (was Heavy Hit Reaction.)

This is irrelevant to newer players because they are not aware of how hitstun works to begin with. The game doesn't explain this anywhere.

~Side Light Cancels now cause a Light Hit Reaction (was Medium Hit Reaction).

This is irrelevant to newer players because they are not aware of how hitstun works to begin with. The game doesn't explain this anywhere.

~Infinite Top Light is now 500ms (was 400ms).

This minorly helps newer players. But not in a significant fashion because they struggle to deal with 500ms attacks already.

~Side Heavy Opener, Top Light Opener, Infinite Top Light, Infinite Top Heavy and Deadly Feint now branch to Infinite Light at 200 ms into the Hit Recovery (was 100ms.)

This helps newer players. As it effectively means in combination with other changes around an extra 300ms time to react.

High tier players:

~Side Heavy damage increased to 40 damage (from 30).

This nerfs his light damage parry by 2 damage and improves his wall splat punish. But this buff ends up not being worth it considering all other losses he takes due to hit stun changes.

~Infinite Top Light damage increased to 16 (from 12).

This does nothing for high tier play because you removed the guaranteed light after hit stun since his top light is now 500ms.

~All Deadly Feint attacks are normalized to 400ms (sides were 500ms).

This doesn't do anything for high tier play. This is because you can back dash on reaction to his heavy finisher start up. Back dashing avoids the soft feint light, the hard feint into guard break, and the raw heavy finisher. He can't feint into dash attack either even on read because his dash attacks are not fast enough to do so.

~Side Heavy Opener now causes a Medium Hit Reaction (was Heavy Hit Reaction).

This is a hard nerf to Aramusha. it effectively makes using his combo harder. You could throw side heavies on reaction to feint bait games due to them having relatively small gb vulnerability windows. Which would get you to his top light which leads into his mix up games and some decent chip damage. With this change that's no longer possible. Thus making his infinite combo harder to use in high tier play.

~Side Light Cancels now cause a Light Hit Reaction (was Medium Hit Reaction.)

This is a hard nerf to Aramusha. Aramusha has to whiff with a back light to get into his mix up games. If he lands a deadly feint side light from here he at least gets decent damage from taking the whiff risk due to two lights landing here. You've effectively cut his chip damage with this change. Not to mention there is a popular mix up with twin vipers. Where even if it's blocked you could potentially land a deadly side light to get chip damage in. Now twin vipers is only worth going for when it's guaranteed.

~Infinite Top Light is now 500ms (was 400ms).

Nerf. Any chance a top light would land outside the stun chances is now gone with this change.

~Side Heavy Opener, Top Light Opener, Infinite Top Light, Infinite Top Heavy and Deadly Feint now branch to Infinite Light at 200 ms into the Hit Recovery (was 100ms).

Big nerf. Really really big nerf. Aramusha's infinite combo was only usable in target swapping. This made aramusha decent in brawls. This change combined with other changes means opponents get an extra 300ms of time to react to whatever he decides to do. Which basically means he's not an even decent pick for brawls. This issue is dragged into 4's as well for team fight situations. and it combined with the new out of lock changes makes aramusha even worse at clearing minions.


Conclusion:
The changes barely effect newer players in a positive matter. Because they ultimately will die quicker. The stun changes are irrelevant because the level of skill you're looking at for these changes don't understand anything about the game what so ever. So a lot of attacks are going to land that are not guaranteed. You essentially tried to patch ignorance. You shouldn't do that. You should seek to teach new players. Not mold the game for them. You only gave one intended change to help high tier play. But because the developers are not as keenly aware about their heros as high tier players are this change doesn't buff aramusha there. The devs probably figured "oh people think 400ms attacks are strong so this will work." When it's not only speed that matters for a move. Ultimately these changes fail to do the jobs they were intended to do.


My personal thoughts:

What little Aramusha had that he could use at higher levels is now even less because of these rather ill thought out changes. The devs further weakened him at high level play because they lack the expert knowledge of this character that high level players have. They should have consulted with the top Aramusha players before doing this change if they really wanted to buff him at high level. At low level they did nothing that would help low level players deal with him as low level players were already struggling with 500ms attacks and have no idea about guarranteed punishes or hitstun.

So basically the impression I am left with is that the devs patched Aramusha with this low level player's view of him in mind because the game does a poor job of explaining the heroes and how they work to new players. Instead of making accurate character guides for their game and proper training tools to teach new players the devs decided to patch a character for player ignorance, which is no way to approach character updates. It's the same thinking they employed in their decision to remove unlocked minion clearing attacks in order to patch for player ignorance instead of providing the tools needed to teach players some basic things about their game.

Han-Singular
10-15-2018, 09:26 PM
imo I think it was done to make minion clearing easier to understand. Some characters like shaman for instance had awful minion clear unlocked.
Same reason aramusha got nerfed again. to make things easier for the wealth of new people coming with the update.

Assassins shouldn’t be trying to clear minion waves, they should be hunting hero’s and ninjaing points making good use of abilities like stealth.

Leave minion clearing to the characters that are actually good at it.

The devs need to stop trying to make this game “easier” for new players. Learning curves are there for a reason, dumbing down the game only hurts the game, it doesn’t make it better

Illyrian_King
10-16-2018, 12:43 AM
Assassins shouldn’t be trying to clear minion waves, they should be hunting hero’s and ninjaing points making good use of abilities like stealth.

Leave minion clearing to the characters that are actually good at it.

The devs need to stop trying to make this game “easier” for new players. Learning curves are there for a reason, dumbing down the game only hurts the game, it doesn’t make it better

^ exactly !!!

There are Vanguards, Heavies, Hybrids and Assassins for a reason.

PepsiBeastin
10-16-2018, 12:53 AM
^ exactly !!!

There are Vanguards, Heavies, Hybrids and Assassins for a reason.

I agree, leave minion clearing to the big boys, and give the small assassins the fast... attacks... what do you mean everyone else has the fast attacks? What's the point of assassins then rather than being squishier worse versions of everyone else?

Illyrian_King
10-16-2018, 01:14 AM
I agree, leave minion clearing to the big boys, and give the small assassins the fast... attacks... what do you mean everyone else has the fast attacks? What's the point of assassins then rather than being squishier worse versions of everyone else?

In average Assassins are currently stronger, then Heavies. And don't talk about the S6 win-matrix, as this thing is flawed from head to toes.

Usually Assassins don't struggle opening an opponent, but heavies like Lawbringer (hybrid but still heavy) or Broki are basically helpless if the enemy has at least medium defensive skills.

I don't think Glad, Shaman, Zerker or PK struggle in this ... even her nerf didn't hurt her almost unreactable moveset, despite their higher speed to reach zones fast and capture them.

The only broken heavies now are just Conq and Highlander to a certain or small extend.

shinneosakura
10-17-2018, 03:08 AM
Oh no,please take it back...Why they recently always changed the essence of For honor, the mood, the action, the voice,we player bought this game for those....

RenegadeRasta
10-17-2018, 04:16 AM
Shinobi had an amazing soldier clearing attack. Now it's gone. Stop changing **** that don't need to be changed and revert this awful decision.

RealJayDee1984
10-17-2018, 06:29 AM
Seriously, I feel like the very, very last thing the devs should have thought of doing whilst implementing one of the biggest mechanical changes in the game's history (perks) was actively removing style from the game.

"Here's a new set of rules that basically overwrite all your existing builds on a fundamental level, but in return please allow us to present you this notieceable downgrade in atmosphere."

:confused: :(

Illyrian_King
10-17-2018, 09:54 AM
And the backlash is aleady in the pipe ^^

Vakris_One
10-17-2018, 10:04 AM
Here's what the Patch Notes say on this topic:



That being said, I'll definitely be sending this thread and your comments to the team.
Hey UbiInsulin. Thanks for sending our feedback along. Any idea if the devs might consider reverting this change if there's enough push from the community?

Zoltan_rus
10-17-2018, 10:39 AM
Please, revert this! Who came up with it? It was so exciting to break through minions with such cool animations and what is it now? Frustrating...

Illyrian_King
10-17-2018, 01:03 PM
Please revert it!

No one likes it.

There hasn't been a single positive post about this change in this thread or in any other one.

The Community loves the old animations.

BreadedSam
10-17-2018, 01:10 PM
Listen to the feedback!

Revert this change now, no matter even if you main Shaman this is not a positive change.

Give us the animations back, there is literally nothing good that has come out of them.

Just do the laziest possible options for the Wu Lin if you can't be bothered to give them minion animations but don't take away from what's already in the game.

EvoX.
10-17-2018, 01:14 PM
It definitely took away some of that For Honor uniqueness and attention to detail, so I'm also for bringing them back.

shinneosakura
10-17-2018, 02:43 PM
please bring the animations back. After this update I really lost much fun playing For Honor. The breach mode needs more adjusting, the voiceline of Wulin are so annoying and ridiculous, and now losing the animations makes heroes so boring. I spent
hundreds of dollars and now I just confuse.

OoKaMi_79
10-17-2018, 02:45 PM
Please revert this.....the minion clearing move sets are part of the personality of each hero.....you are removing the fun of the game.

And I want to add: execution is the main star of your game along with fight mechanics....it should not be interrupted by a minion (I can understand that minions can interrupt revives, but executions? NO)

magicyak99
10-17-2018, 05:43 PM
Man I was really hoping to use my grunt kill stuff in this mode, if anything Breach was the most cinematic mode to do it in. It would've been so sick to have like 12 common sword grunts running for archer points with an officer instead of the spear ones so that are game play could be a bit more varied as well as just give us the players a cinematic battle vibe where it seemed like people where fighting everywhere on the map, and that you were this god like hero killing grunts with ease. Now it's just a big heaping pile of sadness whenever I play something that involves a grunt. You just awkwardly swing at them with no real grace or style and it really just ends up detracting from the initial feelings I got when playing this game in the first place. Obviously I'm not the only one who feels this way. It was just fun, every character was unique when killing grunts, which in turn made every player feel unique. So bring this back Ubi, this is an example of you trying to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place.

DoomSplitter
10-17-2018, 05:54 PM
Ubi has spent too long listening to competitive players that they are stripping out some of the soul of the game just for the sake of minor balance. Dont forget about the rest of us who just want to have fun!

RazireKVD
10-18-2018, 12:18 AM
Undo this stupid change!

The minion killing animations were good, and did not, in any way, need to be removed! Some of those animations were far superior at clearing waves than regular attacks, and this change is by far one of the stupidest things you could have possibly done!
I'm okay with the Wu Lin maybe going without them for some time in order for the animations to be made, but this is lazy and wrong. It detracts from the game, not adds to it!

SirSplee
10-18-2018, 01:08 AM
In my thoughts on this. The animations themselves sort of added to the strategy of clearing minions and such. Now that every single hero in the game is able to clear minions. With this, it makes it so everyone will just swarm minions and some heroes that benefit from clearing minions (any hero with the "Body Count" feat) will no longer have that potential and will end up dead pretty quickly because of it. As a conqueror main who strictly uses body count, healing is cut down immensely for me and I have to hope there is a capture zone that we have and isn't being contested, or hope my heal on block can hold. I would much prefer the animations to stay on the heroes. Now you just have a bunch of people swinging at soldiers with the same animation as a regular unlocked light and heavy that just repeats for eternity as it was not meant to be spammed in such a way,

DefiledDragon
10-18-2018, 01:15 AM
If I were a cynical old bastard, which I am, I would guess that the reason they removed the minion kill animations is because they either forgot to add them to the new heroes, or they couldn't be arsed.

Illyrian_King
10-18-2018, 01:46 AM
I guess after all that stuff they brought in Marching Fire, it was simply too expensive ;b
Motion Capture is no cheap deal.

Look, we didn't even get Hero Trailers like before.

Mavarick_22
10-18-2018, 02:05 AM
https://i.redd.it/95d01gjn7os11.jpg

ChampionRuby50g
10-18-2018, 02:50 AM
So after playing a few games of breach last night, I can understand why they would remove the special attacks, to a degree. With the minions in breach all having extra health and not possible to one shot, I could imagine that the animations would look weird if you stab a soldier through their body and they just keep on coming like a tank.

But, they absolutely should not have removed it from Dominion. I always enjoyed clearing mid, helping my team out that way and cutting through soldiers was fun. Now it’s a chore. Gg Ubi, you’ve done it again.

MechaG2
10-18-2018, 11:43 AM
Why would you delete this nice piece of individual character personality from the game? It's not like everyone couldn't just use their locked on attack chains for optimal minion clearing anyway. This change does nothing to enhance the gameplay experience and is instead getting rid of content, which is just bad. No update should actually be taking content away like this.

This is a pointless change because everyone can already choose to use their locked on attack chains if they need more optimal minion clearing. You're taking away player choice by straight up deleting unlocked minion attack chains. Not to mention you'll be indirectly nerfing natural minion clearers like Warden, whose minion clearing heavy chains are better at hitting multiple minions than his normal locked on chains.

This is a bad change because:

1) It actually makes the game have less entertaining bits of content when vs minions.

and

2) Indirectly nerfs the minion clearing ability of some characters who don't normally have wide sweeping attacks in their kit.

Characters like Warden, Shugoki, PK and Shinobi for example actually have better minion clearing attacks while unlocked and using their special minion clearing chains. This will be a nerf to them that didn't need to happen at all because there is nothing wrong with having special minion chain attacks via unlock attacking.

I'll write it again: everyone can already switch to using their locked on chains for the most optimal minion clearing if they need to - Warden for example did not. There is simply no reason to remove player choice and unique expressions of character individuality like this.

I agree 100%. The unique, interactive attack animations each Hero had against minions was one of the things I absolutely loved about For Honor, and I'm REALLY upset this was completely removed from the game. There was no point in removing this for any of the one-hit-kill minions like the soldiers and archers. I was really looking forward to seeing the Wu Lin Heroes' minion attack animations, too.

This is another unnecessary removal of a really neat or handy feature. It still bugs the heck out of me Skirmish and Elimination modes were recombined into one playlist after we had to practically beg Ubisoft for months to separate them (and it was great when they finally did; so I don't understand why in the world they eventually combined them again).

Or why they removed the:
* "Opponent skill is greater/on par/lesser" notification from the "VS" loading screen.
* Map Overview function from the "VS" loading screen.
* Ability to preview Hero loadouts at the Heroes menu (where all faction Heroes are displayed) using the Q/E keys on PC, LB/RB buttons on Xbox One, and L1/R1 buttons on PlayStation 4.
* End of match cutscenes (e.g. Dominion, Tribute, etc.).
* Orochi's ability to ready his/her katana on the left side when performing Storm Rush.
* Orochi's original Riptide Strike (would've been excellent to keep it as an alternative heavy version of the current one).

Ubisoft, PLEASE bring these back to For Honor.

Sweaty_Sock
10-18-2018, 12:24 PM
Because they are a company after your wallet, not your love.

Not a fan of the guy but im off to listen to 'gold digger' by kanye... just for ubi... respect lost

MechaG2
10-19-2018, 11:37 AM
I think it's safe to say the majority of the community here are very unhappy with the removal of the minion attack animations. Has Ubisoft given an official statement on this matter, yet?

RexXZ347
10-19-2018, 01:42 PM
I think it's safe to say the majority of the community here are very unhappy with the removal of the minion attack animations. Has Ubisoft given an official statement on this matter, yet?

Nah, they would just only listen to noobs.

Klingentaenz3r
10-19-2018, 10:43 PM
I honestly don't mind the change too much.

In fact I can see even some major improvements - for example, Aramusha:
He had some pretty ****ty clearing animations that is why you used your infinite chain. However, this one could not be aimed well at all. NOW you have the infinite chain unlocked. And you only have to press one button to access it which is very convenient. What really got me sold is the fact that you can actually free aim it that way and target the minions you actually want to fight. That is in my book a huge change as up until now fighting minions ever since the changes to nerf unlock techs it was a real pain with the character weirdly just snapping towards some minions and some time be pushed away like a magnet (shoguki's zone comes to mind). Due to that his value as minion clearer greatly improves, especially in breach.

On my warden. Well you could say that you miss the animations, I get it also from the nostalgia perspective. But effectively I can fight minions more or less the same as before. Orochi is better off with his chain a bit similar to Aramusha. Not a good minion clearer but at least he can free aim just as well and hence avoid being hit by selective interruption. Shugoki and Highlander are ok for me too. Their unlock heavies were somewhat usable but not really better than the normal chain solution. Unlock light were terrible for both of them.

I can get the outrage however for characters like shinobi. Maybe it would be really a good suggestion to differ between breach mode animation and the other modes as sb already said that there you can finish the minions off with one hit and hence the animations would often not fit

mann61299
10-20-2018, 01:09 AM
I loved the minion clearing animations...and I wiff and lose stamina so much more now...horrible change and lost content, yet another thing that makes this update completely feel like it went backwards rather than forward. Hate the new graphics, the new cheesy ending victory scene, the new hero select screen...it's all backwards.

Jastorm187
10-20-2018, 07:08 PM
First the minions
I personally love what they did in breach. Harder to kill, more damage, more focus. It gives it a better battlefield feeling. You cant just charge into the middle and flail around. No more god mode for player vs minion.

Minion animation.
This is hit and miss depending on the character. For example
Raider: Such a huge improvement, he is a beast now where the animations were garbage for cleave.

Gladiator: Completely ruined his cleave ability. His zone is his only cleave. Everything is one minion at a time. Just aweful.

So i can understand why half the community is okay and the other half isnt. Some feel nerfed, some feel fixed

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 07:18 PM
I hate the minions in Breach. They're omnipresent. If you're playing for the objectives, you're fighting minions 90% of the time and it's tedious. The only time I find myself having an actual fight with someone that isn't a minion is when I'm nowhere near:

The ram
Archer points
Cauldron point
The commander

Unfortunately, if you're not near any of those things then you're not contributing to the team effort so you're forced to fight endless swathes of minions and it's just so ****ing dull.

Also, interrupted executions drive me bat**** insane. If we're not supposed to be able to heal, fine, remove healing from executions altogether but I paid steel for these things and I want to see them without them being interrupted every. ****ing. time.

Helnekromancer
10-20-2018, 07:30 PM
These pest will see you, and slow walk up a hill just to stop you from reviving a teammate. Every time I attack a archer point I have to fight off a player and 2-3 minions, blocking their attacks instead of the player because the player would just feint me and the little minions do his dirty work. And what my minions and officer doing? Staring and the enemy Officer or going for the archers.

I wish you could lock onto the foot soldiers, because I would always kill them when I enter a area, they are ****ing annoying. Like a Tiandi super kicked me into a horde of them coming out a door and they just beat my *** before I could roll out. Let me lock on to these guys please, they have enough impact on the game mode to warrant it.

Illyrian_King
10-20-2018, 08:06 PM
First the minions
I personally love what they did in breach. Harder to kill, more damage, more focus. It gives it a better battlefield feeling. You cant just charge into the middle and flail around. No more god mode for player vs minion.

Minion animation.
This is hit and miss depending on the character. For example
Raider: Such a huge improvement, he is a beast now where the animations were garbage for cleave.

Gladiator: Completely ruined his cleave ability. His zone is his only cleave. Everything is one minion at a time. Just aweful.

So i can understand why half the community is okay and the other half isnt. Some feel nerfed, some feel fixed

There is no real profit in this kind ... you could fight minions in guard stance also earlier. It's just like the second variety is gone now. This is no improvement. The reason they gave is basically a lie.

The true reason is because Motion Capture is a very expensive thing. They brought a new faction with 4 new heroes, a new mode, complete graphics overhaul, working on RDA, Arcade, etc. and they wanted safe some costs obviously.

Btw. I also love the Breach minions.

MechaG2
10-21-2018, 07:29 AM
The more I play the Marching Fire update, the more I dislike it. With the exception of the four Wu Lin Heroes and Breach mode, everything seems to be a mess. The new graphics engine needs more work, the Perk system is convoluted and destroyed hundreds of hours of hard work many players put into their gear, Arcade is a randomized stress filled rage fest, and some of the fairly minor but awesome things about For Honor were needlessly changed or removed like the minion attack animations or the map faction environments.

I feel like For Honor has been ruined, and I doubt Ubisoft will revert these changes because of the time, money and effort they've invested into this update. And that thought is discouraging. I'm really unhappy with this update.

It sure seems like their priorities were out of whack. IMO, what they should have done is put Arcade mode, the Perk system and the graphical overhaul on hold, leave the minion animations alone, and focus on making the Wu Lin a truly legitimate new faction that stands toe-to-toe and neck-and-neck with the original three by:

* Give the Wu Lin a headquarters on the War Map and add them to Faction War as a fourth faction for players to choose this season.
* Add six Wu Lin Heroes instead of four (and give them all minion attack animations).
* Add Wu Lin faction minions to all appropriate game modes (e.g. soldiers, archers, captains, pikemen, etc.).
* Add plenty of Chinese themed maps for use in all game modes.
* Add a new story campaign featuring the Wu Lin.

^This would've made the Marching Fire update freak'n amazing.

bhitrock
10-21-2018, 07:56 AM
The more I play the Marching Fire update, the more I'm disliking it. With the exception of the four Wu Lin Heroes and Breach mode, everything seems to be a mess. The new graphics engine needs more work, the Perk system is convoluted and destroyed hundreds of hours of hard work many players put into their gear, Arcade is a randomized stress filled rage fest, and some of the fairly minor but great things about For Honor were needlessly changed or removed like the minion attack animations or the map faction environments.

I feel like For Honor has been ruined, and I doubt Ubisoft will revert these changes because of the time, money and effort they've invested into the this update. And that thought is discouraging. I'm really unhappy with this update.

It sure seems like their priorities with this update were out of whack. IMO, what they should have done is put Arcade mode, the Perk system and the graphical overhaul on hold, leave the minion animations alone, and focus on making the Wu Lin a truly legitimate new faction that stands toe-to-toe and neck-and-neck with the original three by:

* Give the Wu Lin a headquarters on the War Map and add them to Faction War as a fourth faction for players to choose this season.
* Add six Wu Lin Heroes instead of four (and give them all minion attack animations).
* Add Wu Lin faction minions to all appropriate game modes (e.g. soldiers, archers, captains, pikemen, etc.).
* Add plenty of Chinese themed maps for use in all game modes.
* Add a new story campaign featuring the Wu Lin.

^This would've made the Marching Fire update freak'n amazing.
Well, consider this:
I'll answer to each of your points :
1-They said they will, probably next season (which means 2019,year of the harbinger etc.)
2-Same. Even the basic factions had four heroes at the beginning. They probably will release more of them next year. For the animations, I hope they will do them.
3-Same
4-They could do something like a Chinese outpost, but the problem is that they come from afar, so they haven't real castles or buildings in the territories of the war map (unless what they want to do is making the map bigger by adding a new region, which is something they actually could do)
5-I think they probably will next year with this "year of the harbinger" thing. For me, it is going to be an update to the story mode and six new heroes (3chinese and 1 for each of the other factions) like last year.

MechaG2
10-21-2018, 08:16 AM
Well, consider this:
I'll answer to each of your points :
1-They said they will, probably next season (which means 2019,year of the harbinger etc.)
2-Same. Even the basic factions had four heroes at the beginning. They probably will release more of them next year. For the animations, I hope they will do them.
3-Same
4-They could do something like a Chinese outpost, but the problem is that they come from afar, so they haven't real castles or buildings in the territories of the war map (unless what they want to do is making the map bigger by adding a new region, which is something they actually could do)
5-I think they probably will next year with this "year of the harbinger" thing. For me, it is going to be an update to the story mode and six new heroes (3chinese and 1 for each of the other factions) like last year.

These things should've all been included at Marching Fire's launch instead of being added piecemeal, and I'm sure Ubisoft could've done it if they didn't spend so much time and effort on things like Arcade, Perks and the graphical overhaul.

Why put the Wu Lin in a disadvantage by starting them out with four Heroes? The existing factions have had six Heroes each for a long time now.

Also, we don't know how long the Wu Lin had taken to situate themselves before they made their move. Lore wise, it could be easily explained that they prepared themselves in secret after settling in. Haste makes waste, after all. It's only logical they brought plenty of supplies (not to mention culturally significant items and their know how) when making a trek as far as they did.

CoyoteXStarrk
10-21-2018, 08:44 AM
Yeah the removal of the animations is a serious issue for me. I loved the animations and it made your hero feel like a god compared to the common soldier. This not only makes heroes feel less powerful, but also makes them feel less unique.



Now its just hack and slash.

SuperSlimeKing
10-21-2018, 07:30 PM
does this mean that my cent boi can no longer punch minions into the air??!??!? add the animations back now!