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Celeon999
04-25-2007, 01:25 AM
The disposal of the last remaining stockpiles of chemical weapons from the production years 1925 to 1946 has been completed yesterday.

The in 1997 signed agreement for the ban of chemical weapons defined a 10 year deadline for the disposal of the last remaining grenades.


From wikipedia



During World War II, chemical warfare was revolutionized by Nazi Germany's accidental discovery of the nerve agents tabun and sarin by Gerhard Schrader, a chemist of IG Farben.

The nerve agent soman was discovered by Nobel Prize laureate Richard Kuhn and his collaborator Konrad Henkel at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Medical Research in Heidelberg in spring of 1944.

The Nazis developed and manufactured large quantities of several agents, but chemical warfare was not extensively used by either side though chemical troops were set up (in Germany since 1934) and delivery technology was actively developed.

Recovered Nazi documents suggest that German intelligence incorrectly thought that the Allies also knew of these compounds, interpreting their lack of mention in the Allies' scientific journals as evidence that information about them was being suppressed.

Germany ultimately decided not to use the new nerve agents, fearing a potentially devastating Allied retaliatory nerve agent deployment.


The article has a little error in this last phrase.

The allies had no knowledge about the existence of nerve agents at all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The only option of retalitation would had been blister agents like mustard gas.

Celeon999
04-25-2007, 01:25 AM
The disposal of the last remaining stockpiles of chemical weapons from the production years 1925 to 1946 has been completed yesterday.

The in 1997 signed agreement for the ban of chemical weapons defined a 10 year deadline for the disposal of the last remaining grenades.


From wikipedia


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">During World War II, chemical warfare was revolutionized by Nazi Germany's accidental discovery of the nerve agents tabun and sarin by Gerhard Schrader, a chemist of IG Farben.

The nerve agent soman was discovered by Nobel Prize laureate Richard Kuhn and his collaborator Konrad Henkel at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Medical Research in Heidelberg in spring of 1944.

The Nazis developed and manufactured large quantities of several agents, but chemical warfare was not extensively used by either side though chemical troops were set up (in Germany since 1934) and delivery technology was actively developed.

Recovered Nazi documents suggest that German intelligence incorrectly thought that the Allies also knew of these compounds, interpreting their lack of mention in the Allies' scientific journals as evidence that information about them was being suppressed.

Germany ultimately decided not to use the new nerve agents, fearing a potentially devastating Allied retaliatory nerve agent deployment.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The article has a little error in this last phrase.

The allies had no knowledge about the existence of nerve agents at all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The only option of retalitation would had been blister agents like mustard gas.

GerritJ9
04-25-2007, 01:54 AM
German chemists also developed a third nerve gas, known as Soman.

klcarroll
04-25-2007, 06:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Recovered Nazi documents suggest that German intelligence incorrectly thought that the Allies also knew of these compounds, interpreting their lack of mention in the Allies' scientific journals as evidence that information about them was being suppressed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The story on this is really quite interesting. Nazi Intelligence not only misinterpreted the lack of discussion as official censorship; ......they also noted the extensive insecticide industry in the U.S., and jumped to the conclusion that these resources would certainly be turned to CW efforts in wartime.

The net result was that they came to the erroneous conclusion that the U.S. must have an extensive and sophisticated chemical arsenal! .....And as a result, the Nazis were very hesitant to use their chemical capability, for fear of a devastating retaliation in kind.

I believe that this was the first time that the concept of "Mutually Assured Destruction" was played out in real life. (Never mind the fact that the U.S. never had such an arsenal, and was, in fact, clueless through the whole thing.)

*

Celeon999
04-25-2007, 07:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I believe that this was the first time that the concept of "Mutually Assured Destruction" was played out in real life. (Never mind the fact that the U.S. never had such an arsenal, and was, in fact, clueless through the whole thing.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think you're right. That was definitly the first case of MAD. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

U301
04-26-2007, 06:29 AM
I think they were lucky to be wrong!
The RAF & 8th Air Force I think would have used chemicals against civilians claiming they were just collateral damage from raids against The Rhur and other sites of German Industry.
My father, an Engineer in WWII, mentioned the fact that the Nazi's thought The Allies had better chemical weapons than them and so did not use them.
I seem to remember that he said he was told that if they do use 'em "that the consequences would be dire for The German People."
KUrtz.

Goose_Green
04-26-2007, 06:50 AM
I thought I would add this snippet from the UK MOD website, something I remember reading about a while ago. It seems most countries are now doing the sensible thing and removing their stocks of Bio and Chem weapons.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePo...alWeaponHoldings.htm (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/BritainCompletesDestructionOfOldChemicalWeaponHold ings.htm)

Celeon999
04-26-2007, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think they were lucky to be wrong!
The RAF & 8th Air Force I think would have used chemicals against civilians claiming they were just collateral damage from raids against The Rhur and other sites of German Industry.
My father, an Engineer in WWII, mentioned the fact that the Nazi's thought The Allies had better chemical weapons than them and so did not use them.
I seem to remember that he said he was told that if they do use 'em "that the consequences would be dire for The German People."
KUrtz.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thats the strange but working concept of MAD. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The capability to make MAD does not even have to exist.

The simple strong assumption that your enemy has the same capability which you have is enough. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I know that Winston Churchill once suggested the first use of mustard gas in airstrikes on the german industry to accelerate its breakdown.

He faced strong criticism in politics and the military for just making the suggestion of first use.

He calculated with a response of similar agents from which he thought the british population is prepared for. He propably thought that the damage to Germany would be much bigger than the risk for Britain.

But what he couldnt know was that the response would had been the usage of nerve agents against britain.

So we are comparing a few thousands death in germany with hundred thousands or even over one million deaths as retaliation in Britain.

Imagine a Tabun or Soman strike on a city with the size of London http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

The delivery system was there (V-2) and the chem protection of the british population useless against nerve agents. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


Here, the assumption of 1:1 MAD luckily prevented that horror.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I thought I would add this snippet from the UK MOD website, something I remember reading about a while ago. It seems most countries are now doing the sensible thing and removing their stocks of Bio and Chem weapons.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePo...alWeaponHoldings.htm
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good to hear that. Lets get rid of that horrible stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

We saw what it caused during ww1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Hoatee
04-26-2007, 01:39 PM
Hitler saw it, too. Germany didn't decide not to use chemical weapons, Hitler decided not to use them.

All the same, glad to see them destroyed. Now for everyone else.

HeibgesU999
04-26-2007, 05:19 PM
We're lucky they were MAD and not NUTs.

Liddabit
04-26-2007, 06:26 PM
Those mean nut induced canker sores http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Goose_Green
04-26-2007, 07:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoatee:
Hitler decided not to use them.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe because he was gassed himself

Celeon999
04-27-2007, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
We're lucky they were MAD and not NUTs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Hmmmmmm ...NUT


Not Utmost Terrifying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif