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IDF_Raam
03-07-2006, 01:14 PM
Ofer Zidon is an aviation photographer, who takes exclusive pictures of the israeli air force for the IAF magazine. As part of his job Ofer also travels around the world and photographs in international aviation exhibitions.
The IDF squadron was very lucky to get to meet Ofer Zidon and even get his exlusive permission to present some of his photos and other material on our site. Every week we will present one of Offer's pictures on our site. The first pictures we are going to publish are taken from his book the "Israeli Air Force Yearbook 2005".

http://pics.sendit.co.il/upservh/3802a8e68d.jpg (http://pics.sendit.co.il)

The book contains 92 pictures and over 200 color pages, recently photographed in many I.A.F events during last year.

Sample pages from the book are presented in ofer's book corner and in The Gallery part of our site:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/idfsquadron/

The pictures will appear on our BBS at first, than on our main page.

Enjoy (we do..)

IDF_Raam

http://pics.sendit.co.il/upservh/ce47d953d3.jpg (http://pics.sendit.co.il)

IDF_Raam
03-07-2006, 01:14 PM
Ofer Zidon is an aviation photographer, who takes exclusive pictures of the israeli air force for the IAF magazine. As part of his job Ofer also travels around the world and photographs in international aviation exhibitions.
The IDF squadron was very lucky to get to meet Ofer Zidon and even get his exlusive permission to present some of his photos and other material on our site. Every week we will present one of Offer's pictures on our site. The first pictures we are going to publish are taken from his book the "Israeli Air Force Yearbook 2005".

http://pics.sendit.co.il/upservh/3802a8e68d.jpg (http://pics.sendit.co.il)

The book contains 92 pictures and over 200 color pages, recently photographed in many I.A.F events during last year.

Sample pages from the book are presented in ofer's book corner and in The Gallery part of our site:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/idfsquadron/

The pictures will appear on our BBS at first, than on our main page.

Enjoy (we do..)

IDF_Raam

http://pics.sendit.co.il/upservh/ce47d953d3.jpg (http://pics.sendit.co.il)

Treetop64
03-07-2006, 02:05 PM
The thing that amazes me about the F-16 is that it entered service in the United States in 1972. Seventy-Two! That was thirty-four years ago! This plane has been in service, and has seen action, for a longer period than a lot of members in this forum have been alive.

And guess what...

The aircraft is still a world beater! This aircraft is just so far ahead of it's time that it's almost difficult to comprehend...

I'll admit, I'm a bit partial to the Viper, but after seeing these photos, I just wanted to give my two cents...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

domenlovrec
03-07-2006, 02:53 PM
I was allway wondering what is that white air on last picture? Does anyone have phisical explnation?

DudeAbides82
03-07-2006, 03:13 PM
I've always loved F-16's ever since I saw that 80's "hit" Iron Eagle. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It's a great movie sort of along the lines of Top Gun (flight scene wise.)

I'm pretty sure the white air is water vapor that forms during higher G maneuvers. As to why, I'm not sure. I'm sure someone who knows will come along and explain...or say that I'm wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I wonder why they would fly with on missle. (Sidewinder?) You'd think they'd carry missles in pairs. They must be sure they wont miss.

tigertalon
03-07-2006, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
The thing that amazes me about the F-16 is that it entered service in the United States in 1972. Seventy-Two! That was thirty-four years ago! This plane has been in service, and has seen action, for a longer period than a lot of members in this forum have been alive.

And guess what...

The aircraft is still a world beater! This aircraft is just so far ahead of it's time that it's almost difficult to comprehend...

I'll admit, I'm a bit partial to the Viper, but after seeing these photos, I just wanted to give my two cents...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It entered service in 1979. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif First prototype took off on January 21, 1974.

Still, F-16 was indeed one of the most advanced aircraft at the time of entrance to service, all the respect to designers.

I feel about the same way about MiG-25: entered service in 1972 (altough first prototype E-166 made its first flight on 6 March 1964), and still today poses a great threat to western airforces wherever encountered. Some pilots/analytics consider it even more dangerous than MiG-29.

domenlovrec
03-07-2006, 03:22 PM
Ou, so this is because of the air pressure? Cause gases turn to liquid under high pressure...

So that means, that wing tips (bf109 for an exaple) "squize" air so much? Huh... i'm just learning phisic cause i have important test tomorrow.

major_setback
03-07-2006, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by domenlovrec:
I was allway wondering what is that white air on last picture? Does anyone have phisical explnation? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The shape of the body/aerofoil cause the air to move a greater distance over one side if the aerofoil compared to the other side of it. The air has to cover more distance in the same time, so the molecules are more thinly spread out, ie. there is a lower pressure on one side of the body/aerofoil. Water vapour in the air condenses to water droplets in the area of low pressure.

domenlovrec
03-07-2006, 03:29 PM
Hmm, tnx. That makes sense. I guess i won't get nobel price for my theory. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif God help me tomorrow. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Treetop64
03-07-2006, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DudeAbides82:
I wonder why they would fly with on missle. (Sidewinder?) You'd think they'd carry missles in pairs. They must be sure they wont miss. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a dummy missile. I might have the details off, but I think it carries a transmitter that simulates misslie launches and hits, and is used during AtA combat training.

Treetop64
03-07-2006, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
The thing that amazes me about the F-16 is that it entered service in the United States in 1972. Seventy-Two! That was thirty-four years ago! This plane has been in service, and has seen action, for a longer period than a lot of members in this forum have been alive.

And guess what...

The aircraft is still a world beater! This aircraft is just so far ahead of it's time that it's almost difficult to comprehend...

I'll admit, I'm a bit partial to the Viper, but after seeing these photos, I just wanted to give my two cents...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It entered service in 1979. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif First prototype took off on January 21, 1974.

Still, F-16 was indeed one of the most advanced aircraft at the time of entrance to service, all the respect to designers.

I feel about the same way about MiG-25: entered service in 1972 (altough first prototype E-166 made its first flight on 6 March 1964), and still today poses a great threat to western airforces wherever encountered. Some pilots/analytics consider it even more dangerous than MiG-29. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for that. I was going from memory.

Interesting about the Foxbat, though, in that it prompted the hasty design of the F-15. It certainly looks impressive, and is fast as a bat out of hell (M. 2.5+). But it's basically a two-trick pony - that of an interceptor and high speed recce.

I wonder how adaptable it is to avionics upgrades...

tigertalon
03-07-2006, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
Thanks for that. I was going from memory.

Interesting about the Foxbat, though, in that it prompted the hasty design of the F-15. It certainly looks impressive, and is fast as a bat out of hell (M. 2.5+). But it's basically a two-trick pony - that of an interceptor and high speed recce.

I wonder how adaptable it is to avionics upgrades... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it influenced the developement of F-15 strongly (heh, if russians did the same, americans would call it "copying"). MiG-25 is so fast and can fly so high it should virtualy be invulnerable to anything apart from the fastest interceptors (F-15/14/Su-27) and fastest SAMs, however, in 80s one Iraqi MiG-25 was shot down by Iranian F-5 with guns!!!

On the other hand, on 20th january 1991 an Iraqi MiG-25 got the first air to air kill in first gulf war, shooting down F/A-18C of undoubtly by far the strongest AF in the world. Quite an achievement IMO.

DudeAbides82
03-07-2006, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:

It's a dummy missile. I might have the details off, but I think it carries a transmitter that simulates misslie launches and hits, and is used during AtA combat training. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, cool... I didn't think of that. Thx.

Treetop64
03-07-2006, 04:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
Yes it influenced the developement of F-15 strongly (heh, if russians did the same, americans would call it "copying"). MiG-25 is so fast and can fly so high it should virtualy be invulnerable to anything apart from the fastest interceptors (F-15/14/Su-27) and fastest SAMs, however, in 80s one Iraqi MiG-25 was shot down by Iranian F-5 with guns!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thus exposing the 'Bat's weakness: It's super at picking guys off at a distance, but it's toast if it gets forced into a fight, especially with a little scrapper like the F-5!

I think the Bat came in response to the U.S. developing the Valkarie. Would have been interesting to see how the Valk would have served had it avoided the axe.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">On the other hand, on 20th january 1991 an Iraqi MiG-25 got the first air to air kill in first gulf war, shooting down F/A-18C of undoubtly by far the strongest AF in the world. Quite an achievement IMO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh. That guy certainly won some bragging rights! F-18s on a strike or W.W. sortie, laden with LGBs/HARMs. Read about that years ago. Also helped by the fact that Russian missiles are extremely good (especially their extended range models). Not surprising that hardly anyone here (in the U.S.) ever heard, though...

tigertalon
03-07-2006, 05:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
Heh. That guy certainly won some bragging rights! F-18s on a strike or W.W. sortie, laden with LGBs/HARMs. Read about that years ago. Also helped by the fact that Russian missiles are extremely good (especially their extended range models). Not surprising that hardly anyone here (in the U.S.) ever heard, though... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Russian tactics with BVR air to air engagements seems interesting: all their major BVR missile types were developed as IR and SAR versions (like R-40 [AA-6 "acrid"] and R-27 [AA-10 "alamo"]). Launching aircraft would launch both missiles at the same time to the same target. (IR should be launched a bit before SAR, otherwise IR could happen to follow and home on the SAR and destroy it). When targetted aircraft would discover it was painted, locked and shot at with SAR missile, it would try to defeat it by maneouvering (beaming) or running away, and most likely engage afterburners, where IR versions comes into play. Most likely F/A-18 was a victim of such tactics.

Nasty tactics indeed, as IR and SAR missiles are very hard to spoof at the same time.

LUFT11_Hoflich
03-07-2006, 06:16 PM
Once heard a guy that was a Iraq 1 vet. And he said that the Israeli "regular" forces are equal if not better to US navy seals. And that they had the best training in the world. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Funny listening that from a US Iraq vet, usually yanks always brag about beating everyone @ everithing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

????
H¶f... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Stackhouse25th
03-07-2006, 09:22 PM
IAF rocks.

Enforcer572005
03-07-2006, 10:37 PM
thanks for posting those. I hve been a follower of the IAF since i was a kid in 67 wathing all those news reel reports. got a shelf full of aircraft in their colors including a p51 and a mossie.

Ill take all the photos i can get as well as info. alot of secrecy there. I want taht new book about iaf aces, but i cant find it now. was kinda expensive. the air combat accounts are amazing.

JarheadEd
03-08-2006, 05:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DudeAbides82:
I wonder why they would fly with on missle. (Sidewinder?) You'd think they'd carry missles in pairs. They must be sure they wont miss. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a dummy missile. I might have the details off, but I think it carries a transmitter that simulates misslie launches and hits, and is used during AtA combat training. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is a dummy missile, a CATM (CAptive Training Missile) A AIM-9L seeker head on a cheap, non-functional AIM-9 dummy motor/warhead section.
It does not have the data link capability, just the use of the seeker for AtA training. The pod with the data link is a TACTS pod (Tactical Air Combat Traing System)which is made to same dimensions as an AIM-9, and is carried on the same rails, but has no fins.

And yeah the IAF is pretty kewl, and so are F-16s, (but you didn't hear that last part from me since I'm a Boeing employee.) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

R988z
03-08-2006, 05:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thus exposing the 'Bat's weakness: It's super at picking guys off at a distance, but it's toast if it gets forced into a fight, especially with a little scrapper like the F-5! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mig 25 is a Boom and Zoomer, be sure! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

After all it gets in and fires off it's missiles and gets out, it can go Mach 2.8 or even 3.2 in a pinch (frys engines though) not many can hang with that, especially not the F/A 18 which is only Mach 1.8 capable, F-16 barely squeezes past mach 2 and F-15 can just about push Mach 2.5.

MiG 25 vs F-5 is like a hellcat vs a Zero http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MiG 31 is the updated version, very capable aircraft similar in role to an F-14 but still no good at dog fighting, leave that to the MiG 29 and Su 27.

tigertalon
03-08-2006, 06:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R988z:
Mig 25 is a Boom and Zoomer, be sure! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

After all it gets in and fires off it's missiles and gets out, it can go Mach 2.8 or even 3.2 in a pinch (frys engines though) not many can hang with that, especially not the F/A 18 which is only Mach 1.8 capable, F-16 barely squeezes past mach 2 and F-15 can just about push Mach 2.5.

MiG 25 vs F-5 is like a hellcat vs a Zero http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MiG 31 is the updated version, very capable aircraft similar in role to an F-14 but still no good at dog fighting, leave that to the MiG 29 and Su 27. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, well said!

Yes, MiG-31 is a deadly interceptor, especially because of its incredible "Zaslon" (Screen) radar, combined with R-37 (AA-13 "arrow" by Nato designation) LLLOOOONNNGGG range missiles for killing AWACS and tankers supplemented with R-77 (AA-12 "adder") "amraamski" medium range missiles.

It is interesting though that, contrary to MiG-25, Russians did equip it with 6 barrel gatling 23mm cannon Gš-6-23 (read as GSh-6-23) with ROF of about 8.000 rpm!!!. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

geetarman
03-08-2006, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LUFT11_Hoflich:
Once heard a guy that was a Iraq 1 vet. And he said that the Israeli "regular" forces are equal if not better to US navy seals. And that they had the best training in the world. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Funny listening that from a US Iraq vet, usually yanks always brag about beating everyone @ everithing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

????
H¶f... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that's funny! Excellent soldiers (regualr army), but I think the vet was overstating it a bit

IDF_Raam
03-08-2006, 02:09 PM
I will ask Ofer to comment about the questions.
For those who are interested to buy his book, his mail is in our site near the sample pages of the book.