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View Full Version : Phenom II Support THIS TIME???



MMaRsu
10-01-2018, 06:05 PM
Ok so for Origins there was no SSE 4.1 support, sadly Ubisoft being the only publisher to not fix this error unlike ( Bethesda with DOOM, Square Enix with FFXV, Dishonored 2, and plenty of others that were patched to support SSE 4.1 and Phenom CPU ) we were not able to play the game we purchased.

Is this time different? Can we buy Odyssey and play it on our Phenom CPU's which are more than capable?

ubi--unicorn
10-01-2018, 07:44 PM
Hey MMaRsu. The system requirements can be found here. (https://support.ubi.com/en-GB/faqs/000036863/System-requirements-for-Assassin-s-Creed-Odyssey-ACOD) Please note phenom processors are not supported.

MMaRsu
10-01-2018, 08:26 PM
Wow such a horrible company. The BIGGEST thread on the Assassins Creed Origins Support was for Phenom II support. Instead of providing a solution to PC players with this CPU, clamoring to play the new game.. Noone on the AC team even looked at the support forum? Noone said wow look at how many people are complaining about this? Maybe we should make sure we fix our mistake for AC Odyssey? So many of the Assassins Creed fans want to play these games on their more than capable hardware.

Can you explain why this hardware is not supported? Does it have to do with the actual GAME or is it another case of the Denuvo DRM impacting the hardware requirements for this game?

How is it that every other publisher has no problem releasing games on PC with Phenom II support? Look at Monster Hunter World? Dragon Quest 11?? These NEW games work without a doubt and without any problems on a Phenom II cpu.

Please specify why this CPU is not supported?

aT1C
10-02-2018, 12:15 AM
@MMaRsu Phenom II is really old hardware let alone the CPU power it have. Its from 2008 you cant be expecting game company to run that old of hardware. No new AAA is going to be work on that CPU socket.

MMaRsu
10-02-2018, 12:58 AM
@aT1C actually ALL new games run fine on this CPU. Monster Hunter World and Dragon Quest XI being the latest examples. I have zero issues running these AAA games.

There actually aren't that many games that don't run on this CPU. The most that don't run are from Ubisoft. See Far Cry 5, Assassins Creed Origins.

Also, don't defend this **** man. This CPU is more than capable to run the latest games. In performance it even goes toe to toe with the FX line ( which tells you how much the FX line sucks ).

MMaRsu
10-02-2018, 01:00 AM
Also, the CPU I have is the Phenom II 1090T Black Edition which was released in 2010, not 2008.

And it outperforms PS4 and Xbone in ANY game I throw at it.

So tell me why it's not possible for this CPU to run this game? If I can get better performance in EVERY TITLE compared to it's PS4 counterpart?

I'm looking at GTAV, DOOM, HITMAN, Dragon Quest XI, Monster Hunter World...

MMaRsu
10-02-2018, 01:32 AM
And here, a new AAA game releasing tomorrow gives me 60fps

https://imghost.io/images/2018/10/02/Forza4perf.png

Dont tell me this CPU isnt up to snuff when it comes to the latest AAA games if you don't know what you are talking about aT1C

MMaRsu
10-02-2018, 03:15 AM
And Shadow of the Tomb Raider also has no issue running on a Phenom CPU.

There is nothing wrong with this CPU, WHY does Ubisoft continue to ignore people asking to support this?


https://youtu.be/9UhRQ6e_AAs

MnemonicSyntax
10-02-2018, 07:51 AM
Hahahahahahahaha

MnemonicSyntax
10-02-2018, 07:57 AM
Hahahahahahahaha

Ravwyn
10-02-2018, 02:02 PM
First - I totally get why you are frustrated. Any Phenom II CPU with sufficient threads available will get the job done, somehow. They always do. Unfortunately - Ubisoft has chosen not to support the (nowadays limited) feature set of this CPU. End of story. I'm not a coder by any means - and I did see some games with similar issues (Mafia 3 for example) that never resolved this too. So I can't tell you if this issue is as simple as it appears to be.

However, a basic comparison (http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Phenom-II-X6-1090T-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1400/m417vs3922) between a Ryzen 5 1400 and your 1090T indicates a near 50% single-core performance increase. This is a substantial increase. Looking at multi-core perf its even higher.

Now I know this won't help you at all, consider this: Phenom CPUs still are kickin' in some scenarios, but they are way, WAY past their End-of-Life date by now. Please, don't be offended by this statement - I really enjoyed my time with them (they were always a solid and cheap alternative) - but their time is over. AC Origins and Odyssey require EXTREME CPU performance, to the point where an i5 6600K gets completely overwhelmed. My 1600X is struggling with these games too, and according to the trustworthy userbench archive I have a massive perf increase compared against the 1090T - and I still struggle. These games scale unlike any other game with more CPU threads and a higher IPC (instructions per clock). So I suspect it's not JUST ISSE 4.1 support that's an issue for Ubi. I know it sucks, but it's also duly noted in their minimum requirements. Feels bad tho :( ...

MnemonicSyntax
10-02-2018, 02:45 PM
First - I totally get why you are frustrated. Any Phenom II CPU with sufficient threads available will get the job done, somehow. They always do. Unfortunately - Ubisoft has chosen not to support the (nowadays limited) feature set of this CPU. End of story. I'm not a coder by any means - and I did see some games with similar issues (Mafia 3 for example) that never resolved this too. So I can't tell you if this issue is as simple as it appears to be.

However, a basic comparison (http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Phenom-II-X6-1090T-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1400/m417vs3922) between a Ryzen 5 1400 and your 1090T indicates a near 50% single-core performance increase. This is a substantial increase. Looking at multi-core perf its even higher.

Now I know this won't help you at all, consider this: Phenom CPUs still are kickin' in some scenarios, but they are way, WAY past their End-of-Life date by now. Please, don't be offended by this statement - I really enjoyed my time with them (they were always a solid and cheap alternative) - but their time is over. AC Origins and Odyssey require EXTREME CPU performance, to the point where an i5 6600K gets completely overwhelmed. My 1600X is struggling with these games too, and according to the trustworthy userbench archive I have a massive perf increase compared against the 1090T - and I still struggle. These games scale unlike any other game with more CPU threads and a higher IPC (instructions per clock). So I suspect it's not JUST ISSE 4.1 support that's an issue for Ubi. I know it sucks, but it's also duly noted in their minimum requirements. Feels bad tho :( ...

For the record this is the best response I've seen regarding this issue. Unfortunately, I gave a similar one last year with Origins to the same guy. He flipped out and was stating what he's entitled to, what other companies do, etc.

I probably have more experience programming than you (I have a BS in Computer Science) and this might not be something that is patchable. I admit to having no experience with working with direct instruction sets for processors, but I will say that depending on Ubisoft's programming, it may not be as easy as some people say or think.

It's refreshing to see someone on this forum view both sides, especially a technical argument such as this, kudos and cheers.

MMaRsu
10-02-2018, 03:39 PM
It is patchable. Look at all the other games that were patched to support non SSE 4.1 CPU's. Even Mafia 3 was fixed. Actually there aren't that many games that do not run on this CPU. I know it's older, but performance wise it's still good.

Thank you Ravwyn for the good post, instead of laughing your *** off like mr Mnomic here who seems to think he holds all the wisdom and just because Ubisoft refuse to patch SSE 4.1 support he's right about this CPU.

Thankfully I will stay with this CPU for a good long while as it's doing me just fine. It just sucks I can't play the latest Ubisoft games. But hey they don't really care about their PC playerbase anyway now do they? Looking at the performance for Odyssey and Origins..yikes.

Like I said Ravwyn you claim that the CPU is wayy past it's date, I am not offended by that statement but I do feel it's incorrect. If that was the case I would not be able to play Forza 4 at 60fps, Monster Hunter World at 60fps or even Dragon Quest XI at 60fps.

I'm not saying the CPU isnt old, it's ****ing old but it still works like a charm in most games so yea.

MMaRsu
10-02-2018, 03:42 PM
And yeah I do find it strange that this CPU is better than what's in a PS4, and I can't run this even at 720p 30fps locked for instance.

Ravwyn
10-02-2018, 06:22 PM
Thx for reading my comment. =)

The CPU "blocks" inside every 8th gen console (except the switch, of course Nintendo :rolleyes: ) are not identical with the Phenoms. They originate from their Opteron line-up of Server chips called "Jaguar" and received numerous upgrades specifically tailored towards THEIR ecosystem. In essence this means that they are essentially very similar, although have been modified. And while we never got to see anything concrete - neither AMD nor their partners (Sony & MSFT) reveal what exactly these parts can or cannot do - it is safe to assume they are at least on par with their retail brothers. And low and behold - SSE 4.1 & 4.2 support. Thx Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(microarchitecture));D.

Additionally consoles run with a heavily specific OS that utilized something very similar to DX12 and or Vulkan. The so-called "Low-Level-APIs", meaning their game code can interface more directly with the actual hardware of the box. This is why you see lower-spec hardware performing way better than any comparable PC part.

But it still sucks, I can totally relate. From Ubisoft's perspective - I think the picture is extremely clear: Look at this Steam hardware survey result (https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam): A crushing 95% of ALL steam users (many have systems incapable of running AC Origins or Odyssey) have SSE4.1 and 4.2 support. Even if I was in charge of their PC port, I simply could not justify the cost attached to this supposedly "small change". Y'know what I'm saying?

What if their engine just occasionally uses this feature set and you totally could change it to run on different CPUs - it would probably require a massive rewrite (hundreds of classes, code lines, probably need to be changed) of many, many different areas inside their engine, their middle-ware (smaller services and libraries like PhysX or SpeedTree - to name a few known ones) and other external tools. If this were the case - I would patch it in if I could and have the time - but otherwise completely disregard this change and be done with it. It feels like they abandoned their Users, but what if ... they already are doing their absolute best to make things happen AT ALL on our beloved platform. Rockstar for example just skips the PC port entirely for Red Dead Redemption 1 AND the shortly launching 2. It's not the same situation, but a trend in recent times nevertheless.

TW-Andresen
10-02-2018, 09:33 PM
While at times I'm amazed at how long my Phenom II has lasted me, and continues to perform excellently on any newer game that I've played, this is still disappointing as all hell. The only games that I have been unable to run with a more-than-acceptable performance are the ones that have directly refused to launch.

When it happened with FC5, it was explained by "SSE4.1 because Denuvo", so of course, when Ubi removed any mention of Denuvo from the Steam store page, I had to let my hopes get the better of me. Otherwise, I'd have waited until I could afford an upgrade that would actually be worth something for more than a couple of years.

But for goodness sake, let us consumers figure out by ourselves whether our system is strong enough to handle the game, or if we need to invest in an upgrade, rather than completely blocking us from even trying. That is what I find the most infuriating.

No, I find it downright offensive.


https://www.retromags.com/blogs/entry/800-list-of-games-that-no-longer-run-on-amd-phenom/


The only thing preventing support is developer insistence and/or indifference.

MMaRsu
10-02-2018, 09:34 PM
Damn you are one quality poster. Thank you for looking into those Steam stats. You are totally right, I guess it's not in their best interest to make sure the game works on systems that do not have SSE 4.1. Especially if it's less than 5% of the Steam userbase that have such a CPU.

I will no doubt upgrade in the future. Sadly right now I'm not too big on money so I can't justify spending a few hundred bucks to get a better CPU.

Also, don't worry about RDR2 not coming to PC, it absolutaly is coming to PC. The first game didn't make it over to PC because the source code was an absolute mess that was hanging by a silken thread.

That's why there is no HD port of the game either on PS4 or Xbox One :). But rest assured, RDR2 WILL come to PC in time, just about half a year later or maybe a bit more. If you look at the amount of people double dipping on the console version, then buying the PC version of GTA V it would be leaving a lot of money on the table for R* to ignore the PC fanbase of R* games.

Thanks for your great comments Ravwyn :)

MnemonicSyntax
10-03-2018, 12:54 AM
It is patchable. Look at all the other games that were patched to support non SSE 4.1 CPU's. Even Mafia 3 was fixed. Actually there aren't that many games that do not run on this CPU. I know it's older, but performance wise it's still good.

Thank you Ravwyn for the good post, instead of laughing your *** off like mr Mnomic here who seems to think he holds all the wisdom and just because Ubisoft refuse to patch SSE 4.1 support he's right about this CPU.

I never once said I had all the answers, in fact, the opposite of it. I've said it multiple times.

Your confusion lies on other companies and their methods. Some companies use proprietary programming methods that may prevent things like this from being "easily patched" without having to damn near start from scratch.

I don't.know how or what Ubisoft does. I'm merely stating again, that just because other companies do something doesn't mean Ubisoft can or should.

And I've said that multiple times. A patch might be easy for one company, and to a different company it is going to be time consuming and not worth the frustration.

And comparing CPUs between consoles and PCs is folly anyway, as the programming between the three are completely different.

What I'm telling you are possible reasons why. Nothing more. Programming can be neat and clean and modular, or it can be a mess and a jumbled frustration with little to no pseudocode.

AthosDeWitt
11-17-2018, 11:55 PM
and I did see some games with similar issues (Mafia 3 for example) that never resolved this too. So I can't tell you if this issue is as simple as it appears to be.

Mafia III it's very playable on phenom ii x4/x6 they fix it. Only 3 games to this date and all of them are made by Ubi which can't / won't / don't care about us doesn't support cpu without 4.1/4.2 set
i've played some heavy AAA games with gtx 970 and this kind of cpu at 1080p/2k high settings 40-60 fps it's more than enough for me. I will upgrade when my graphics settings will look worse than consoles not when ubisot force my hands just because they are are a bunch of incapable coders. Yes it's old tech yes i shouldn't complain with such tech but lemme tell you that i don't complain i just want to send a message about how much consoles ''evolved'' in 10 years and how ungrateful is Uby.

dhlao
12-08-2018, 08:22 AM
I totally agree with you. Mine is Phenom II 1090T Black Edition too. It's still running damn good except for Ubi games.

WhiteSnake_76
12-09-2018, 11:56 AM
Just upgrade the Phenom II to a FX8350 or FX6300, problem solved.

Can tell you from personal experiance it makes a big difrece, not just in games.

And if you think its just UBI try the latest EA games, also need SSE 4.1

Also some big tittles to be released soon also need SSE4.1, so i wish good luck with your Phenom II CPU's

MMaRsu
01-27-2019, 01:21 AM
Just upgrade the Phenom II to a FX8350 or FX6300, problem solved.

Can tell you from personal experiance it makes a big difrece, not just in games.

And if you think its just UBI try the latest EA games, also need SSE 4.1

Also some big tittles to be released soon also need SSE4.1, so i wish good luck with your Phenom II CPU's

What big titles exactly? And which latest EA games require SSE 4.1? You are talking out of your *** mate.

I am playing Resident Evil 2 now. Screw Ubisoft and their horrible pc support.

longjohn119
01-30-2019, 12:50 AM
Ok so for Origins there was no SSE 4.1 support, sadly Ubisoft being the only publisher to not fix this error unlike ( Bethesda with DOOM, Square Enix with FFXV, Dishonored 2, and plenty of others that were patched to support SSE 4.1 and Phenom CPU ) we were not able to play the game we purchased.

Is this time different? Can we buy Odyssey and play it on our Phenom CPU's which are more than capable?

I think you and the 4 other guys in the world still using that relic may have to bite the bullet and get a CPU designed in this decade .... which is just about over

It was a good processor in it's day ..... Keywords however are "in it's day" .....

Here's the simple facts, there aren't enough of you out there to justify the cost of doing a rewrite ..... It was just be a terrible business decision ..... You don't spend $100k to gain maybe 100 new sales

UbiGabrinth
01-30-2019, 11:09 PM
I'm going to close this thread, as this isn't truly about a technical issue at this time.