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Aaron_GT
05-07-2005, 05:10 AM
I downloaded a free NF II for FS2004 and was playing around flying at tree top level. Yanking it about I managed to stall it and it began to span. Weirdly during the spin, with the engine at idle, it climbed from about 50 feet to about 5000 feet before coming down again. I tried the same with a few other planes - same effect! I've noticed you can even do the same sometimes in CFS3. So much as some people knock the IL2 flight model, the competition definitely has some weird behaviour too! I've yet to get a plane to do this sort of thing in X-Plane.

Aaron_GT
05-07-2005, 05:10 AM
I downloaded a free NF II for FS2004 and was playing around flying at tree top level. Yanking it about I managed to stall it and it began to span. Weirdly during the spin, with the engine at idle, it climbed from about 50 feet to about 5000 feet before coming down again. I tried the same with a few other planes - same effect! I've noticed you can even do the same sometimes in CFS3. So much as some people knock the IL2 flight model, the competition definitely has some weird behaviour too! I've yet to get a plane to do this sort of thing in X-Plane.

LStarosta
05-07-2005, 05:20 AM
That's common for FS...

IcarusXP
05-07-2005, 06:11 AM
I always thought M$ FS flight models were good until you took the plane to edge of its performance envolope. If you fly FS like an old lady strolling the park it's OK.

IL2 is much better for yanking and banking. I like how a pilot is properly punished if he takes the plane to far; flat spins, high speed stalls ect.

One of the most diffucult manuvers in aviation is the, "Butterfly Stall". I've seen it done in a Cesna 152II. I have never been able to do it in FS, but some of the lighter planes in IL2 can pull it off. I got 6 continuous stalls out of the P-11 once.

major_setback
05-07-2005, 08:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> "Butterfly Stall".... I got 6 continuous stalls out of the P-11 once. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you explain what this is, and how to bring one on. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ....Curious.

BTW: I tried the Just Flight Spitfire tryout demo that came with PC Pilot a while ago, and found that it would recover from a spin (with my heart in my mouth, -just in time). I heard that the developers had specifically worked on this aspect of the model. This aircraft seems to be more reaistic in (close to the edge)performance than the default aircaft, has anyone else noticed this?

CUJO_1970
05-07-2005, 08:24 AM
Aaron,

What do you think about the X-plane flight model?

Aaron_GT
05-07-2005, 09:14 AM
CUJO,

Hard to say as with all open architecture sims you are limited to what people have programmed in the planes you download. But I downloaded a PA-28 from the Piper website, and that matches the specs from flights I've had in them in terms of stall warnings with one notch of flap when coming into landing, and so on.

I noticed that in version 6 & 7 the P-51 (which came by default) rolled far too quickly at low speed. There is no P-51 by default in version 8, but the one I downloaded seemed more plausible.

The things I liked about FS-2004 are the winds and weather, and the graphics are still better than X-Plane. I'm not wild about the FS-2004 user interface, but the X-plane one is a bit 1993-retro in feel.

I notice that www.fighterops.com (http://www.fighterops.com) is using the X-plane engine.

tsisqua
05-07-2005, 09:51 AM
Prayer:

"Oh dear God, please let Oleg Maddox give us a civil flight sim."

The other night I had a B-17 doing loops over the ground in FS9. Never touched the ground, but looped back up at just a few feet over the runway. The kicker: 2 loops per second, I'm not kidding.

With all of the complaining that I hear about the IL2 series flight models . . . I'd kill to have them in a civil sim.

Unfortunately, 1C isn't even remotely interested in this.

LUTHIER! HELP US! If you get to continue development using the IL2 engine, please consider this!

Tsisqua

WWSensei
05-07-2005, 10:42 AM
The thing to remember with FS2004 is the flight models for the various aircraft are done by the people doing the model. I've downloaded some really good looking aircraft with really crappy and other-wordly FMs and I've gotten some that were bang on and I would say superior to some in IL2.

The IL2 series has far better quality on a consistent basis. If IL2 were open like FS2004 then you have some ridiculous aircraft in it as well.

Aaron_GT
05-07-2005, 01:02 PM
True to a certain extent, Sensei, but I still have to wonder about the physics engine when a plane can hit the performance figures in normal flight but rise 5000 ft in a spin with the engines at idle. I am trying to work out how you'd code something that has the correct balance (in normal flight) of lift:weight and thrust:mass and behave as if it had huge amounts of lift, but when in a stall. You can sometimes get this sort of behaviour in SDOE too, but not to the same extent, but then SDOE always felt to me as if the planes were scale models - somehow not enough inertia and the air viscosity too low.

As I said, I've yet to see this happen in X-Plane, but there is always a first time. X-Plane is at least endorsed by the FAA, though. (I'm not trying to endorse X-Plane, it is just that IL-2 doesn't do general aviation).

tsisqua:

Perhaps with the advent of BoB Oleg might licence the engine for a general aviation sim? I doubt he'd want to continue to support the IL-2 engine in parallel in any way. The general aviation market is largely sewn up by the FS series with some minor action from X-Plane, and partly X-Plane's win is the Mac and Linux support, and I don't think Oleg is interested in a unix-related port.

IcarusXP
05-08-2005, 06:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> "Butterfly Stall".... I got 6 continuous stalls out of the P-11 once. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you explain what this is, and how to bring one on. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ....Curious.

BTW: I tried the Just Flight Spitfire tryout demo that came with PC Pilot a while ago, and found that it would recover from a spin (with my heart in my mouth, -just in time). I heard that the developers had specifically worked on this aspect of the model. This aircraft seems to be more reaistic in (close to the edge)performance than the default aircaft, has anyone else noticed this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you've never seen a Butterfly Stall at an Airshow its difucult to explain, but I'll try.

A light aircraft can stall out after a brisk climb and actually fall backwards for a breif moment. The backwards momentum can be stabilized with rudder control until the plane noses over and moves forward again. You need to use quik sharp rudder inputs to keep the plane from dipping into a spain.

If your really good you can keep up this backward forward rocking motion for as long as you have altutude to spare.

altstiff
05-08-2005, 02:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tsisqua:
Prayer:

"Oh dear God, please let Oleg Maddox give us a civil flight sim."

The other night I had a B-17 doing loops over the ground in FS9. Never touched the ground, but looped back up at just a few feet over the runway. The kicker: 2 loops per second, I'm not kidding.

With all of the complaining that I hear about the IL2 series flight models . . . I'd kill to have them in a civil sim.

Unfortunately, 1C isn't even remotely interested in this.

LUTHIER! HELP US! If you get to continue development using the IL2 engine, please consider this!

Tsisqua </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, I can do that with the 777 on full real in MSFS 2004!

I love MSFS 2004 for navigation and real world flying and flight procedures but the flight model is poor compared to IL-2 FB.

Let's face it, most people that like MSFS like it for the reason's I do. You won't find very many that fly it for it's acrobatics and FM, if that is the case you will be un-happy.