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View Full Version : I read two very sad things here today



XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:55 AM
First, there is Hunter82's post in the tech forum. Basically, he's had enough of all the whinging,back biting and bi*ching that goes on here, and if it carries on he's (quote) "out of here" That would be a huge loss to the community. People should read his words and take note.

Second, Euro_Snoopy posted this in Leadspitters post in Olegs RR in response to the question'why dont Oleg post here anymore'??

"It is regrettable that we do not hear much from Oleg or the development team in this forum.

From what was said in Birmingham it is down to the arrogance and ingratitude of some posters in this forum, insulting posts and petty arguments have made this forum a bad experience for many.

We once had a developer who took time from a hectic schedule to inform us about game development on a regular basis. Because of the attitudes of a few we have lost this."

So basically, some members of the community have driven away the one thing that made these forums special....even unique.

Surely its time for this to stop?? I follow Hunter82's thoughts on needing more moderators and that they (and UBI) need to take a tougher line on people that cant behave in a civilised way. Locking threads is no good,it becomes a sport, but if people were banned or suspended for mouthing off, im sure we would all think a little more before posting??

To lose both Oleg AND Hunter82 would be tragic.Am I alone in feeling like this or do the majority of you guys agree??

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aeroart/images/hunhunter-texas_sig2a1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:55 AM
First, there is Hunter82's post in the tech forum. Basically, he's had enough of all the whinging,back biting and bi*ching that goes on here, and if it carries on he's (quote) "out of here" That would be a huge loss to the community. People should read his words and take note.

Second, Euro_Snoopy posted this in Leadspitters post in Olegs RR in response to the question'why dont Oleg post here anymore'??

"It is regrettable that we do not hear much from Oleg or the development team in this forum.

From what was said in Birmingham it is down to the arrogance and ingratitude of some posters in this forum, insulting posts and petty arguments have made this forum a bad experience for many.

We once had a developer who took time from a hectic schedule to inform us about game development on a regular basis. Because of the attitudes of a few we have lost this."

So basically, some members of the community have driven away the one thing that made these forums special....even unique.

Surely its time for this to stop?? I follow Hunter82's thoughts on needing more moderators and that they (and UBI) need to take a tougher line on people that cant behave in a civilised way. Locking threads is no good,it becomes a sport, but if people were banned or suspended for mouthing off, im sure we would all think a little more before posting??

To lose both Oleg AND Hunter82 would be tragic.Am I alone in feeling like this or do the majority of you guys agree??

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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:58 AM
Agreed 100%

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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:00 AM
You are not alone. When I first started coming here it was pretty much gauranteed that at the very least on Friday we would see the name Oleg Maddox in red in the RR. No more... now we have to get info from Oleg from other sources.... that is too bad because like you said..that was one thing that kept me coming here. I never really dealt with forums before..untill IL2. I hope we dont loose Hunter..that would be tragic.

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Buzz_25th
10-11-2003, 02:02 AM
I sort of go with the flow on forums. If it's real strict, then I behave. I post on one that you can't say boo to someone else. It's not a problem, because you know everybody else is under the same rules.

This forum has gotten pretty wild. If they want to crack down. I'm all for it, and even offered my help. We'll see how it goes.

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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:13 AM
What would squadron leaders do with their whiners?

Well, then again, we are the Flying Circus.

790::
-- Snoop, your a serial moderator now. Finish the job!

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:14 AM
EDIT:: the "insulting" whiners.

I am a proud FMB whiner myself. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:16 AM
ive noticed things have been going downhill here for some time now. its sucks when a few people ruin things for the rest of us. it happens alot in life. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:16 AM
I just started in this forum back in June. Even from that time, I can see it has went downhill. I believe a lot of it is the age of some of the people that post here. You can see the immaturity as you read, especially responses after someone tries to constructively give a bit of advice. I wasn't around when Oleg took the time to read and post. If I were, I'd probably be a bit more peaved about losing his direct input and advice. I believe Hunter is a bit stronger than he let us to believe in his post today. I don't think he will let a few bad apples run him off. He has to many real contacts and relationships here for him to turn away. But I do not blame him for feeling that way and I agree 110% with him. The post that are real problems here are written by people that have a lack of respect, not only for expierenced people here, but probably for themselves as well. But nevertheless, it affects us all. Hang in there with us Hunter! S!

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:33 AM
I agree...I watched the forum when IL-2 first came out but never posted anything. Currently I am simply amazed at attitude being displayed here. For example, there are people posting good credible information with evidence to back it up. I think that that is fine and healthy. However, they end up being bashed by individuals stating their opinion which is questionable as to its credibility. The other thing that concerns me is the insulting statements made by forum members who have no idea what they are talking about or don't have any credible proof to back their statements.
Basically, I think these people should be banned period.

If you have a good point to make and can prove it then post it. Even if it shows a flaw or a mistake. Doing that is ethical, even if you think the sim is the most outstanding simulation that you have ever flown such as I do.

Instead of insulting a person why don't you prove he is wrong and back it with credible information. If you can't do that then don't respond until you can.



Message Edited on 10/11/0302:03AM by IV_JG51_Swine

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 03:08 AM
I have to be perfectly honest about this.

No doubt many posters have been downright rude to Oleg and that is a shame. It's wrong and it shouldn't happen. I've even had Oleg shoot back a retort at me and I had no intention whatsoever of offending him or unduly criticizing him in any way. I tried to explain this clearly to him and got no reply back at all. Oh well. I chalked it up to language barrier and went on about my business.

If I met Oleg IRL I wouldn't hesitate to shake his hand and buy him a beer.

However, I must very truthfully say that I have no pity at all for Oleg if he is offended or has his feelings hurt by what someone posts on the internet. It's simple business and that's the way business works sometimes.

I own my own business. Dealing with the public can be a nightmare. But it is part of business and if you are going to be successful in business you have to learn to deal with customers and the good and bad that goes with it.

I'm of the firm opinion that Oleg is making a big mistake if he is letting what some people are posting on the net drive him away from the community. Large corporations would pay dearly to get the kind of feedback that Oleg and company get from the internet on a daily basis.


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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 03:15 AM
The internet is a very loud place. I go online to listen to the many voices, and to express my own. It is every persons right to be offended at somthing.

That said, The moderators on these forums could take some lesons in ediquete

And also, the day I take this s%!& seriously is the day I burn my computer
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Buzz_25th
10-11-2003, 03:17 AM
He gets the feedback whether he talks to us or not.

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adlabs6
10-11-2003, 04:00 AM
hunhunter-texas wrote:
- Am I
- alone in feeling like this or do the majority of you
- guys agree??

I agree with you. Sadly, I'm not convinced that we have sufficient incentive to take responsibility for our words on these boards. Especially when speaking to special guests like Oleg and development crew members, this should be enforced.

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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 04:13 AM
Change is inevitable and people move on for many reasons. You have to have a thick skin and realize that for every post there are probably dozens that visit the forum and try to glean info and some laughs.

This is pretty typical for all forums. I have come and spewed nonsense on occasion. Now insults I have not what would be the point. I just want to fly....I do not want a Spitfire...I do not want a P-38....I am easily satisfied. IL-2 did it for me....FB is just so much icing on the cake even with the patch fiasco's which were rather funny. I still do not know which patch I am running????

BOB the Med who cares thats in the future but tonite I am flying FB!

Let it go gentlemen...let it go!

Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 04:40 AM
Buzz wrote: "I sort of go with the flow on forums. If it's real strict, then I behave. I post on one that you can't say boo to someone else. It's not a problem, because you know everybody else is under the same rules.

This forum has gotten pretty wild. If they want to crack down. I'm all for it, and even offered my help. We'll see how it goes."

I'm impressed with those statements Buzz. I'll be honest, its more than I expected.

A lot remains to be seen from a bunch of us folks here. For me, many times its a matter of a release. After a while of coming here a lot gets pent up. I understand how easy it would be to just go with the flow. I think many of us have to work on understanding what truly constitutes direct (even indirect) insults. Both anger and humor are a release and have to be kept in perspective.

Hunter laying the law down is the only answer. I'm glad, and I'm already experiencing more freedom from the tension and uncertainty of others looking to find fault. I'm also faced with another realization I didn't experience before his ultimatum, I have to watch my own steps.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:02 AM
Well,I understand the reasoning behind Oleg not posting anymore,but you have to be a little thick-skinned to post in public forums. You can't let negative things people say to you,get under your skin. I wish he wouldn't let the immature whiners ruin these forums for the rest of us. C'mon Oleg,come back! Just ignore the babies..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

47|FC
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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:05 AM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- What would squadron leaders do with their whiners?
-
- Well, then again, we are the Flying Circus.
-
- 790::
--- Snoop, your a serial moderator now. Finish the job!
-
-


Back off Luthor!! You aint no Flying Circus... We are!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:25 AM
The few who sour a good thing because of behavior or inapporate laugage or outright bigotry should be ban from this forum. This page is to get help and express ideas for this game. Its been very helpfull and fun since we're communacating around the globe. Hopefully this behavior will stop and the few that are promoting this will take a lesson.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:35 AM
FW190fan wrote:

- However, I must very truthfully say that I have no
- pity at all for Oleg if he is offended or has his
- feelings hurt by what someone posts on the internet.
- It's simple business and that's the way business
- works sometimes.
-
- I own my own business. Dealing with the public can
- be a nightmare. But it is part of business and if
- you are going to be successful in business you have
- to learn to deal with customers and the good and bad
- that goes with it.
-

Allow me to disagree with you, Maddox under no obligation to deal with public, he did it because he wanted to be with this community. When he realised that it could be rather unpleasent experiance...he backed off..

- I'm of the firm opinion that Oleg is making a big
- mistake if he is letting what some people are
- posting on the net drive him away from the
- community. Large corporations would pay dearly to
- get the kind of feedback that Oleg and company get
- from the internet on a daily basis.
-
-

His business is develop games, companies like UBI deal with customers...more or less.

Just my 03c /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:05 AM
Bearcat99 wrote:
- You are not alone. When I first started coming here
- it was pretty much gauranteed that at the very least
- on Friday we would see the name Oleg Maddox in red
- in the RR. No more... now we have to get info from
- Oleg from other sources.... that is too bad because
- like you said..that was one thing that kept me
- coming here. I never really dealt with forums
- before..untill IL2. I hope we dont loose
- Hunter..that would be tragic.
-
- -
-exactly my feeling and experience/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:11 AM
bump for the destruction the ppl who have f**d up our fourem..........hunter your on it ..make it happen

U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:15 AM
Like many others, I've been around alot longer than since I've been posting. Engaging in humorous dialogue is a small part of why I visit this forum.

Information was/is the main reason I come here. I have NEVER flamed anyone, insulted anyone, or tried to do any more than help. The fact that the developers (not only Oleg) frequented these forums only made it better.

I don't see many of the names I used to see regularly and the reason is obvious. I myself took an extended hiatus from here because it had seemed to have stagnated to a degree. Well, I'm back.

I've started posting again because I've decided to be a part of the solution/improvement. I still have things I want to know and the membership here is still a good source. I'd like to think that I also have things that can help others with that need it and will continue to let my example speak for itself.

Ban the ne'er-do-wells. It'll help even if only for a short period, but I look at this similar to driving...We can take it for granted, but it's a privelege and not a right.

You'll appreciate it and regret it when it's gone.

Remember the pilot's lounge? I never posted there, but the rest of the forum started to decline more quickly after its demise because many people with way too much time on their hands couldn't quell the desire to act in a certain way so they brought it next door...I'm sorry to say.

Hopefully, it's not too late.

TB



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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:15 AM
FW190fan wrote:
- I have to be perfectly honest about this.
-
- No doubt many posters have been downright rude to
- Oleg and that is a shame. It's wrong and it
- shouldn't happen. I've even had Oleg shoot back a
- retort at me and I had no intention whatsoever of
- offending him or unduly criticizing him in any way.
- I tried to explain this clearly to him and got no
- reply back at all. Oh well. I chalked it up to
- language barrier and went on about my business.
-
- If I met Oleg IRL I wouldn't hesitate to shake his
- hand and buy him a beer.
-
- However, I must very truthfully say that I have no
- pity at all for Oleg if he is offended or has his
- feelings hurt by what someone posts on the internet.
- It's simple business and that's the way business
- works sometimes.
-
- I own my own business. Dealing with the public can
- be a nightmare. But it is part of business and if
- you are going to be successful in business you have
- to learn to deal with customers and the good and bad
- that goes with it.
-
- I'm of the firm opinion that Oleg is making a big
- mistake if he is letting what some people are
- posting on the net drive him away from the
- community. Large corporations would pay dearly to
- get the kind of feedback that Oleg and company get
- from the internet on a daily basis.
-

Well Said....

on one hand I agree with the original post. incessant pointless whining and beech'n serves no purpose other than....like people who talk really loudly on cellphones in public places...for one to just hear (or read) themselves speak (write). But Oleg throws it out there he should expect that are going to be idiots who respond. I've been to and lived in a lot of places and no matter where I go there are a**holes. Some places have more than thier fair share, cough NYC cough! but they exist everywhere. Put a public forum on the net and you invite the world, a**holes included.

So what are you going to do? take your ball and go home? If Oleg is to react so negatively toward all the offensive crap that is posted here then he is not taking into consideration all the ppl positively support him, his product, and effort as well.

I once posted a reply to one his post lamenting someones insulting accusations towards him. I tried to make the point that you gotta be able to filter out the drivel from the clueless. Apparently it was not taken to heart (or read). Oh Well.

l8s
Mo

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:18 AM
Ick_352nd wrote:
- The internet is a very loud place. I go online to
- listen to the many voices, and to express my own. It
- is every persons right to be offended at somthing.
-
- That said, The moderators on these forums could take
- some lesons in ediquete
-
- And also, the day I take this s%!& seriously is the
- day I burn my computer
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/ ( <A HREF=)"
- target=_blank>http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/<
- /a>"
- target=_blank>http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/<
- /a>
-
-
http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/icarus.gif
-
-
-
- http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/
-
http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/icarus.gif
-

Sheesh Ick If I see that sig one more time I might burn my computer....my eyes, my eyes mercy mercy please

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:29 AM
MoPai wrote:
-

--
-
- Sheesh Ick If I see that sig one more time I might
- burn my computer....my eyes, my eyes mercy mercy
- please
-
-


Hey! I posed for that sig...only sans the wings. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif





http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:29 AM
I agree that there is way too much whining here, I appreciate what addons we get and I don't complain about what comes in it, or what does not.

People that b*tch about addons, FM's, planes, or anything else do not deserve any recspect from anyone on this forum.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:32 AM
Thunderbolt56 wrote:Hey! I posed for that sig...only sans the wings.

Clearly,he took my wings and attached them to your body.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:13 AM
yup, one of the reason i dont come around here as often as I use to or play the game anymore. I think they scared off hammerd too hes MIA

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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:27 AM
There's a thread up right now that's pure evil. You know the one I'm talking about. But I won't post to it, because that would help it live and it really needs to die.

It's a "last word" contest. You know the kind of thread I'm talking about. Start bumping the threads that are interesting and useful and stop keeping the flamebait alive people! Please.

(My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right!)

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:30 AM
Man, I turn my back for a few minuites and the forum gets trashed!



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XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:36 AM
Some real A-holes get on these forums no doubt and from the mods point of view I could understand giving up on them since they are volunteering. For Oleg, however, I take his absence to mean that these jerks are more important to him than his legitimate supporters. Its pretty common to hear your critics with a fine-tuned ear but to largely ignore your supporters. When it is all said and done a lot of support and appreciation comes through these forums as well so if he is doing things for his real fans then the voices of his critics should have no relevance. On the other hand, if you are so mad at your critics that you wish to punish your supporters as well then I take that to be a fairly immature way of dealing with things.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:37 AM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- yup, one of the reason i dont come around here as
- often as I use to or play the game anymore. I think
- they scared off hammerd too hes MIA

He's been busy with the Tempest and Ju-88 skins....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:38 AM
"Large corporations would pay dearly to get the kind of feedback that Oleg and company get from the internet on a daily basis."


Perfectly true, to get a customers feedback like in these forums would cost a great deal of money if this would be done by a specialized entreprise. And even more money on a continuous period of time.

So, please, don't exagerate too much in the "it's traaaaagic" style, because it's becoming somehow hilarious!

I'm sure marketing men are interested in these free of charge remarks and know ho to select good or uninteresting posts or topics (this topic is not so interesting).

Cheers,



Message Edited on 10/11/0308:40AM by CHDT

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 11:56 AM
You mean this place had moderators?

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:02 PM
What would we become without hunter?

Seriously now, I've never been so critical with a game than with FB. The sim is so good that I ignore other sims and start to expect FB to become perfect. Makes me notice many things, that are obviously flaws of the game, but that you wouldn't really pay attention to in an average sim/game.

The forum is the most active of any Ubi game or so I think, and even if it brings a lot of trouble, whiners (me included) and not so good opinions, one has to consider that it's quite a feat that so many people share their opinion about the game here. It would be a piy to stop commit to the forum only because the game brought so many people here, and want to have it as perfect as possible. Sometimes forgetting how good the game is in the first place.

But this kind of reactions isn't new, and this kind of attitude existed when the original Il2 came out, and everyone who had a critic to say had to make a disclaimer about how he loved the game but... and yet he was still flamed. The only difference I see is that when someone said the game sucked back then, there was a cohort of people who'd come and tell the guy to stick with it, that it was worth it and that there surely was a way to enjoy the game by tinkering with/learning some things. This seems to have disappeared to a certain extent.

Anyway it'd be a shame to abandon the forum just because it grew so big. Because it grew like this due to the popularity of the game and nothing else.

Nic

Message Edited on 10/11/0301:20PM by nicolas10

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:33 PM
Well its certainly good to know im not alone in my thoughts.
The issue here is not whether Oleg is ungrateful for 'customer feedback' or what ever, but the fact the he, and maybe Hunter, feel they are being driven away by the idiots, and would more effective 'policing stop this.

Oleg never HAD to post here. He did it because he wanted to, and that made these forums unique.Every Friday, regular as clockwork, up popped Oleg telling us his latest plans and thoughts for the Sim and everyone knew what was going on.These days, we are basically starved of information.

CHDT,everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I respect that and will never knock anyone for it, but do you really think it would not be "traaaaagic" to lose Hunter82??? The man has given so much of his time to help others, often answering the same questions over and over, and personally, he has my full support on everything he said in his post in Tech forum.

Buzz summed it up quite nicely. If everyone has the same rules enforced on them its not a problem. You either abide by the rules or leave.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aeroart/images/hunhunter-texas_sig2a1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:43 PM
I agree, Ive been here a year and a half and it has definately changed for the worse, It was a civillised affair, with good contact from oleg, but now it has just turned into one long request and whineathon, granted, there were whiners in the 'old days' but not to the scale of today....shame....and it can probably only get worse /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/giantrobot/bender.jpg
Which Colossal Death Robot Are You? (http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/giantrobot/)

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:45 PM
I guess I'm one of the few that think things are a actually better than they used to be. Several months ago I posted what I thought was an honest critisism during which I metioned my age (I'm 71} I was flamed unmercifully, not so much because of the critisism but because of my age, Heavy Delta and some of those guys were downright abusive. Seems to me that some of the kids have grown tired and moved on to other things, though some are still here.
I too, am a former business owner, and if I had only had flattering opinions my business would have floundered.
The problem here seems to be the flaming retorts to any kind of whining whatsoever.
Also, I am one who believes that we owe Oleg nothing. He put out a product and we bought it. If we continue to buy his products he is going to have to inprove them. What is the best sim today is not going to be the best sim tomorrow.
In my business we assumed that we owed the customer, and to keep his business we had to find out what he wanted. I wish we had a forum like this in those days. In my opinion Oleg worshippers are contributing to his ego but not to his success.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 12:53 PM
The bad attitude of some of us is the direct result of Oleg's attitude. "Me is right you is wrong be sure" and so on, and always referring to secret data and BS like that. The man is no god, and the moustache is out of style.


http://sivusto.servepics.com/~lahnat/werre2s.jpg

prkl

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:04 PM
I think a good solution would be to open a "whine-whining" forum section.

It's now rather hard to find good posts on aviation or simulation among all these "we are left in the dark" topics /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:40 PM
hunhunter-texas

I don't do a statement to the behaviour of Hunter82 because I don't know to much about things that happened to him. But it's a different story to the Oleg Ready Room thing.

At the time as Oleg regularly posted at the ORR the most members were full of suggestions and ideas for IL-2 and how to better IL-2, or make it more accurate. 80% or more of the suggestion were really serious and mostly well founded. So what did Oleg reply to those members if he was to lazy to change that - or what reason he ever had? His well known "You is wrong" or "No Russian tests showed another thing and our tests were more serious" and, and, and.

Take an example, not long ago, about the MG151/20 hub gun and it's ammo capacity? That answer that Oleg gave, to that topic. OLEGS answer was arrogant to that guy who answered a serious question.

So is who's wondering why that Oleg RR board turned to such a place? Oleg isn't completely inoccent to that.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



"......und mein Herz steigt wie ein Falke in die Lüfte!"

EJGr.Ost Kimura

http://www.jagdgruppe-ost.de/image/ejgrost.gif


http://www.jagdgruppe-ost.de/Forums/



Message Edited on 10/11/0301:41PM by KIMURA

ZG77_Nagual
10-11-2003, 01:55 PM
I respectfully disagree. People forget English is a second language to Oleg. This makes for a certain economy of speech. Also, many of the threads Oleg replied to also contained insulting accusations of 'Russian bias' etc. - This does not create a good atmosphere. I've had a number of communications with Oleg and, based on my experience, and everything I've seen here - I disagree with such negative characterizations. I'm sure he's made mistakes about who posted what, and has probably lost patience now and again. I know I'd handle some of the stuff on this forum with substantially less grace. In fact I would have closed ORR awhile back. Ubisoft needs to get serious about moderating these forums. It's ridiculous to burden a developers allready substantial workload with insults.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 01:58 PM
I can't blame Oleg for not wanting to spend any time here.
Mind you who's to say he doesn't post anonymously from time to time...?

S! Simon.
<center>

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm).

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/ex1_soon.jpg
<font color="#000000">It's my attitude not my aptitude that determines my altitude.</font></center>

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:19 PM
just a game......carry on

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:42 PM
Hi,

I,ve been reading here from the beginning.And it was great hearing things from Oleg and others. Regrettedly there are people which are offensive, disrespectful etc. etc.

But in reality forums are a mirror of society! Like real life there are knuckle -and **** heads everywhere.Not to mention killers , reapers ,thieves and all kind of life threatining people.

But by going away they have their fun!

Do not go away and deal with those morons.Just ignore them,ignore them fully , and in the long run they will disappear. Hope Oleg returns!

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 02:58 PM
Werre_ wrote:
- The bad attitude of some of us is the direct result
- of Oleg's attitude. "Me is right you is wrong be
- sure" and so on, and always referring to secret data
- and BS like that. The man is no god, and the
- moustache is out of style.



- "He was mean to me so I'll be mean to him."

Sounds like my 5 year old kid.

So u gonna polute this entire community and even risk that good people like Hunter82 leaves all because Oleg was "mean" to you??


Btw wasn't it another Finn who jumped Oleg really bad in ORR and managed to get the hole community against him?
Keeping up the legacy, Werre??

<table width="50%" border="0"><tr><td valign="bottom">
http://www.btinternet.com/~foehner/humpty.gif</td><td valign="bottom"><font size="4" face="Monotype Corsiva">All The King's Horses
And All The King's Men
Couldn't Put Humpty Together Again</font></td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 03:22 PM
Mr.Dumpty wrote:
- Btw wasn't it another Finn who jumped Oleg really
- bad in ORR and managed to get the 'hole' community
- against him?
- Keeping up the legacy, Werre??
-

You mean 'hole' right as in azzhole not 'whole' as in entire community. Just for clarification purposes because the'whole' community is NOT against Oleg./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 03:42 PM
there seems to be a majority opinion that this forum has gone down hill.

As a player of FB and IL2, and long-time lurker, who has only recently been able to afford his own computer with a 'net connection, I was personally delighted to find this forum. I thought i had discovered a like minded group who enjoyed Olegs product as much (or possibly even more) than i did.

Throughout the years i have been an irregular poster on millitary, historical and literary forums swapping information and opinions with thousands of other posters. Generally these posts are well thought out, cogent and often insightful and intelligent.

What i have been dismayed to discover is the unique (in my own, somewhat limited experiance) amount of sledging, agenda running, whining and general lack of thought that have gone into a significant minority (say 30%) of posts.

I like this forum, it enriches my gaming experience to the nth degree. It has given me countless hours more enjoyment out of my 1C: Maddox games. i respect the majority of posters, many of which are highly intelligent and would probably turn my P-47-27 into 6 tons of steel tinsel if we met in the virtual skies. What annoys me is the personal vitriol, the viciousness of personal attacks and the complete absence of grey areas, compromise or lee-way displayed by some members posting here.

Having just realised this is my first whine (there IS irony in there somewhere) on this forum i would like to put something positive foward:
Question: WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE THIS FORUM A LESS UNPLEASANT, MORE BALANCED PLACE, WHERE WE CAN POST REASONABLE OPINIONS WITHOUT FEAR OF PERSONAL ATTACK?

My own ideas are based around what was said previously: 1, monitioring and moderating of the forum, 2. no swearing (this appears to be very hard for some posters but remember; to insult without resorting to profanity is SO much more satisfying) 3. a ban on personal attacks 4. a seperate whiners forum where people can agitate for their personal projects

Thats all i can think of right now, responses more than welcome.

p.s. as my computer makes an apple mac classic look fast cutting out the excessive graphics on some posts might be good. I know there cool but this is also the slowest forum in terms of loading times i have ever written on.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 04:09 PM
Fellas, you are not going to silence the bad apples. Maturity is needed to be able to post in a civil manner, and some of us don't possess that.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 04:31 PM
potver wrote:
- But in reality forums are a mirror of society! Like
- real life there are knuckle -and **** heads
- everywhere.Not to mention killers , reapers ,thieves
- and all kind of life threatining people.


Potver, you are right about what you say about society in general, idiots,criminals etc..,but with effective policing, they get removed from the society they are polluting.That is what should be happening here.

Thats really what im trying to get across here. I feel that maybe 10-15 new moderators (spanning all time zones) need recruiting and maybe they should operate a zero tollerance policy.

I am not an 'Oleg worshipper' and i agree that the guy can at times be 'blunt' to say the least, but its his baby, he designed it,researched it and built it. It would have been easy to 'sell' the game to UBI and wash his hands of it, but he stuck around and got involved which was cool.

But thats in the past. Maybe if the forums were 'cleaned up' he might come back.But right now, the most important thing is to keep Hunter on board.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aeroart/images/hunhunter-texas_sig2a1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:01 PM
Dolemite- wrote:
- I agree that there is way too much whining here, I
- appreciate what addons we get and I don't complain
- about what comes in it, or what does not.
-
- People that b*tch about addons, FM's, planes, or
- anything else do not deserve any recspect from
- anyone on this forum.


I agree with most of you guy's. The flaming and insults have to stop.

But complaining about FM when you have a good point or data to back you up i think is ok.

Also i would hate to see Hunter82 leave us. I think it would be a blow to the comuinity. He spends countles hours helping others, when he could be doing something els more important. Hunter82 reminds of someone els i know, Luckyboy. He also spends alot of time trying to help others.

I know im not perfect, there was this post i did last week, i think you guys might remember. BoB are you Kidding, i think it was called. Well im not proud of that post. I got rid of it but i still feel like an idiot for posting it in the first place.


Any way Hunter82, please dont go. mayby somethng can be done to make this a better place or forum.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:04 PM
This attitude of if you don't go with the flow and agree with everything you shouldn't be here. I disagree with that completely. The Oleg ready room was not created so that people could glorify Oleg. It was created to discuss issues both good and bad in regards to the sim. Yes its his baby and he did an outstanding job with it but on the other hand I am a loyal fan and a customer so yes I feel that I have the right to speak up on issues pertaining to the sim. Why should we have the right to speak out you might ask. Well. look at your average fan, he or she will probably purchase the sims put out by a company for the rest of their life. Thats not just one sim but many. I feel that this is important and something to consider. Not that anybody will listen though, I realize that.

No matter where you go there are going to be Trolls - period. There is no way around that. You can either deal with it or quit. That sucks but I think its reality.

I hope that you don't quit Hunter, you seem like a great asset and I appreciate your help and information.



Message Edited on 10/11/0304:08PM by IV_JG51_Swine

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:33 PM
Mr.Dumpty wrote:

- So u gonna polute this entire community and even
- risk that good people like Hunter82 leaves all
- because Oleg was "mean" to you??

I did not say "mean." I meant arrogant.

"It's my game so I can rape history left and right and there's NOTHING you can do about it."

- Btw wasn't it another Finn who jumped Oleg really
- bad in ORR and managed to get the hole community
- against him?

Yeah I remember that and the sad episode nearly had me resign from the squad. It was tactless.



http://sivusto.servepics.com/~lahnat/werre2s.jpg

prkl

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:34 PM
Some of you guys crack me up with your "Oleg should have a thicker skin..." argument. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Stop and think about it for a second.

If you are at a bar to talk to your friends and people are constantly fighting all around you, throwing beer glasses over your head and insulting you for no apparant reason I think you would just end up going to another bar with a better atmosphere.

It has little to do with having a thick skin and a lot to do with just not wanting to bother with overwhelming idiots. He prefers to spend what little extra time he has amongst mature peers for intelligent discussion.

And when he says that the FW190 won't be changed in this game then you can shout "daddy,daddy,daddy, look,look,look!!!daddy,daddy,daddy, but look..." all you want. Wrong, right or whatever he's done discussing it himself. Bumps ad nauseum will not alter that fact. You can feel free to talk yourselves into a foaming lather about the subject until you're ready to lynch Oleg but it still isn't going to change anything.

There comes a time to let go and accept the minor flaws.


<center>http://mywebpage.netscape.com/nyngje/charvel.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:40 PM
"And when he says that the FW190 won't be changed in this game then you can shout "daddy,daddy,daddy, look,look,look!!!daddy,daddy,daddy, but look..."


If I look at the topics on the 190 visibility, I see articulate comments supported by graphics, historical reports and good pics of real Focke-Wulf 190 cockpits.

May you show me some posts with a "daddy, daddy" attitude, I didn't have noticed them.

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:43 PM
"And when he says that the FW190 won't be changed in
- this game then you can shout "daddy,daddy,daddy,
- look,look,look!!!daddy,daddy,daddy, but look..." all
- you want. Wrong, right or whatever he's done
- discussing it himself. Bumps ad nauseum will not
- alter that fact. You can feel free to talk
- yourselves into a foaming lather about the subject
- until you're ready to lynch Oleg but it still isn't
- going to change anything."


Prime example even in this thread......

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 05:45 PM
And frankly, did you notice, on the contrary to the bias guys and the self-designed advocates (they're in the same boring team for me), that the guys who are the most productive for the community like the developers of great utilities like Nview, Ueberdemon or IL2Manager are the most discreet ones. For me, yes, the loss of these guys would be tragic!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:04 PM
Also agree 100%. The behavior of some individuals here is nothing short of outrageous in my opinion. Obsessive, self-righteous, arrogant, insulting and plain rude - these folks would not get invited to my house, I'll tell you that.

Like many others, I spend little time here now, prefering the more mature climate at SimHQ and Netwings. It is sad.

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:11 PM
I am sorry to hear

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:16 PM
Werre_ wrote:
-
- Mr.Dumpty wrote:
-
-- So u gonna polute this entire community and even
-- risk that good people like Hunter82 leaves all
-- because Oleg was "mean" to you??
-
- I did not say "mean." I meant arrogant.
-
- "It's my game so I can rape history left and right
- and there's NOTHING you can do about it."
-
Oh come on, that's over the top. Emotive overstatement like this quickly degenerates into the kind of squalid catfight we witnessed in "outdated designs".

Nice lock, by the way, Rock. Best of luck with the cleanup campaign!

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:23 PM
The atmosphere on the forum is why I've become reluctant to even click on the bookmark of late to even come here let alone read it. Its also why my work on the F4F and variants has slowed considerably.

I'm stuck between wanting to see something to completion and the possible realization that it would be giving something to an ungratefull, assanine, and generally childish community on whole, that would only pick it apart looking for every little flaw.

I realize that there has been 'issues' with the patches and have even harped on them myself, but after the announcement of the free addon and the last patch this place has gone straight into the sewer. Every other post at least was just pure negative bull, I'm glad Oleg doesn't come here anymore because it would only hinder his self intrest in a new sim for this 'community' that will surely rip into it as it has this one at this rate.

The bleedover in negativitly is already a disease to the lomac forums, how much further people are willing to take it is unknown and could damage the whole CFS genre permanently in the eyes of developers.

http://www.redspar.com/redrogue/CraggerUbisig.jpg

About after 30 minutes I puked all over my airplane. I said to myself "Man, you made a big mistake." -Charles 'Chuck' Yeager, regards his first flight

ZG77_Nagual
10-11-2003, 06:26 PM
It's time for some more active and forceful moderation - particularly in ORR. I don't blame anyone - esp the moderators - it may just be the rules - or lack thereof.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:33 PM
I don't blame Oleg for not posting anymore, All those annoying posts about the Fw-190's cockpit view, Even after Oleg himslef said he was'nt gonna change the view people kept bugging him, That and all the other petty thing people complain about, No wonder Oleg does'nt post that much anymore.

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close your eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:22 PM
I say even if Oleg is wrong, we should act like he's right. That way we will make him feel better.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:33 PM
Oleg got a busy life and he is still posting some msg in Russians forum

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 07:38 PM
There are two seperate issues.

Simple flaming and offensive behavior, which can easily be stopped by an active team of moderators. This is actually a normal operational procedure for a public board.

The second issue is more complex and it is here where Oleg and the moderators are not only victims but active parts of the problem. The discussions about what is "RIGHT" and what is "WRONG". Of course this is often subjective and as such an easy area for debate. However if both sides tend to take positions (and developers/moderators unfortunately have to be diplomatic) argument and strife become second nature.

IMHO Oleg tends to take strong positions himself, unfortunately even when his arguments are less than perfect, and as such becomes the target of argument.

It is probably for the better that he's now on the back ground. Great if he reads material he finds useful, out of the limelight and no magnet of debate.

The atmosphere on the Forum did not come out of a vacuum...

Although I really believe that 95% of the people on this board (incl. whiners) love this game, it just does not bare to have only a fan club system, where everybody just says how great things are all the time.

If there weren't so many people who think its their duty to defend the honor of their idol, there would be a lot less flaming. Look at who starts the flaming and poisoned atmosphere, often its not the critical poster, but the loyal "defender of the realm".

Constructive criticism improves...simple yes saying leads to stagnation.

I think Oleg is a big boy and if he doesn't like the critical atmosphere of the Forum, well he won't loose any sleep over it, far from it after he counts his earnings.

Comrade Oleg is okay.

Which is more than I can personally say about half of the moderators here /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

(yeah, yeah...warning taken!)

The problem with a company forum is that it is a company forum...

Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:07 PM
I've spent very little time in the ORR since IL-2 demo first came out-but I do remember Oleg posting in General Discussion for the first couple of months-which way very nice and greatly appreciated (little to no flaming).

I believe a strong hand slapping and deleting of immature posts in the ORR could have kept Oleg around a bit longer-but that's just conjecture.

I feel like the ORR has turned into the old offtopic in a way and that the rest of the forums are actually "better" than they have been for quite a while.

I would really enjoy seeing Oleg post in the general discussion though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VaporBlast
10-11-2003, 08:23 PM
I agree 100% with you...This place is becoming less and less fun everyday. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Major Vincent 'VaporBlast' De Marbre
Commanding Officer KG54 Totenkopf
http://www.kg54.net

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:31 PM
CHDT wrote:
- "And when he says that the FW190 won't be changed in
- this game then you can shout "daddy,daddy,daddy,
- look,look,look!!!daddy,daddy,daddy, but look..."
-
-
- If I look at the topics on the 190 visibility, I see
- articulate comments supported by graphics,
- historical reports and good pics of real Focke-Wulf
- 190 cockpits.
-
- May you show me some posts with a "daddy, daddy"
- attitude, I didn't have noticed them.
-
- Cheers,
-
-

The folks that are discussing and bringing NEW AND RELEVANT arguments to the table are both interesting and welcome. I thought it was obvious in my post that I was not referring to these people. The discussion is good, the demands upon Oleg are not.


<center>http://mywebpage.netscape.com/nyngje/charvel.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:37 PM
"I believe a strong hand slapping and deleting of immature posts in the ORR could have kept Oleg around a bit longer-but that's just conjecture."


The easiest way to get a more friendly forum quickly would be to ban for a few days every posters writing personal nasty remarks.

Of course, that should be done WITHOUT any preferences, real justice must be blind!

Personnaly, I would begin by deleting this topic (or to create a specific forum section for the whine-whiners), which has no interest about aviation and can only cause trouble or serve some hidden agendas.

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:38 PM
I guess those are two sad things, on the other hand what did they expect, everyone has their own opinion which they are entitled to. Since we are a large community, we all behave differently, some has another language as their first, some, per tradition, another way of expressing themselves and some are just plain stupid.

After all, we can all be misunderstod by the others when we try to bring up a topic, that be the aircraft we love the most which in our minds are wrong in the game, or not yet implemented and if we don't get ourselves expressed in the right way, language or tradition, it may seem like were trying to flame someone elses idea about this topic and suddently it ends up in mud-throwing becourse it is seen as personal attacks.

I myself usually don't get involved in discussions about performance issues, not that I don't know anything about them, but simply becourse I haven't flown the debated aircrafts myself and becourse I find throwing numbers and ideas at each others a little stupid and like some absolutely want to be "know-it-all"'s (or what it's called) and hoping to win by being the loudest and getting the last word.

Sane people say what they mean, discuss it, argues about it and last not least, know when to shut up.

So I'll shut up.

rgds

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:42 PM
I agree 100% with the comments on this topic, I would come here for info on the Il2 and get tech advice, which I still do from time to time, but the bickering that goes on in the general forum or Olegs is so sad, everytime that you come to the forum someone is moaning about something not to there liking, whether it be aicraft performance or cockpit veiw.

At the end of the day its a flight sim, a game a very good game one of the best WW2 sim made, by someone who, like us loves aircraft, so why dont people just run the game and enjoy it, instead of maoning and spoiling it for everyone else.

Its sad that Hunter and Oleg will not be regular visiters to the site anymore, especially Oleg, after all it his product that this site promotes.

kfurni

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:54 PM
"The folks that are discussing and bringing NEW AND RELEVANT arguments to the table are both interesting and welcome"


That's ok, I perfectly agree with you on this remark. If I were a sim developer, I would in fact look with the greatest care on the forums of my concurrents to take infos and ideas from these "constructive critic" posts and later, in my own product, propose what seemed relevant to me.

Sim market can move fast. Imagine for instance if the guy who developped Strike Fighters would produce an EAWII sim with a Focke-Wulf 190 cockpit having a good visibiliy and a "rolling" P-47D, it could badly hurt!

Not listening to custormers critics, even if they are hard, unpolite or sometimes stupid, can be very dangerous. It's rare, but there can be something true even in the post of a troll. On the contrary, "yes-men" posts are useless.

But let's speak frankly. Sometimes, I've the feeling too that you are not always welcome here when you come with "new and relevant arguments" as you said. There are always, even in good and polite topics, two kinds of posters who come: first, the expericenced ones, who know the sim well, and who wish to ruin the topic because of their hidden agendas. Or some newbies who act as self-designed advocates to gain fast a place with view!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:02 PM
rhorta wrote:
- Constructive criticism improves...simple yes saying
- leads to stagnation.
-
- I think Oleg is a big boy and if he doesn't like the
- critical atmosphere of the Forum, well he won't
- loose any sleep over it, far from it after he counts
- his earnings.
-
- Comrade Oleg is okay.



I agree with you Rhorta, Oleg gave us a marvellous sim and we all love the game and praise its creator, but sometimes the postings one can read here worry me: the man has become an omnipotent Father figure for some, apparently!!!

At the end of the day we are consumers who buy a product - OK, we all love planes and sims and flying - but this is a commercial forum not an organised religion, and if, as consumers, we express our opinions about a product in a forum organised and sponsored by the company that produces and sells that product, we do the aforementioned company a favour in terms of market research, do we not?

And this would be true even if 90% of the postings were of the whining kind.

It is a pity that we see very little of Oleg these days (I have been reading the forum for quite some time even if I never did any posting before), it was good to be in touch with the guy who created the game, but if the man has better things to do or even if he is just fed up with hearing about IL2/FB and all he wants is a cold beer (or vodka) at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with that.

No posting should be censored, ideas should circulate freely, as long as the limits of politeness and common decency are respected.

What are people afraid of? That we will incur in the wrath of Oleg??? He is a man same as you and I are (OK, much better at programming than all of us, probably) and I am sure he has enough common sense and integrity - what's the Russian word? Dusha? - to do whatever he thinks is right and /or profitable for him without worrying too much about some people who kill time by writing postings in a forum.

But if people come up with ideas and suggestions surely this a good thing for everybody, end users and game creators alike.

Enjoy the forum, enjoy the discussions, just don't take things too seriously and respect one another and Mr. Maddox.

Be good, I'm going for a beer... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:04 PM
I agree 100%. The term "community" is not accurate to descibe he goings in here. A dysfunctional grade school comes closer.

http://www.geocities.com/lw_padre/bing_omalley_1_ww.jpg



"The WingWalker's Fightin' Fahdah"


Message Edited on 10/11/0304:05PM by WWPadre

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:09 PM
In other words, this place sucks balls, and the should nuke it.

---------------------------------
Pround member: Fightin' Irish

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:09 PM
I'm as guilty as the next guy. My fault. But this place does bring it out of you. (Still my fault.)

The mods should crack down hardcore on the miscreants. A few days of locks, deletions, and bans would smarten everyone up.

Over at the site for Janes WWII Fighters, the mods have zero tolerance for rudeness, politics and confrontation. The result is that the shmucks are weeded out and those who stay are polite, friendly and the discussions are flame and troll free. A great bunch of guys. Could be like that here too.



"Official Lancaster Whiner"

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 09:36 PM
" A dysfunctional grade school comes closer."


Yep, like these classes in which all the chicks fall in love with the teacher /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ZG77_Nagual
10-11-2003, 09:50 PM
Thing is - even with good data - if Oleg disagrees - or perhaps does not have time to make the changes - why take it personally? It's his call - accepting this, after fighting the good fight - should be understood. Do you best to prove your point - then accept the outcome.
RBJ - I don't know what to tell ya bud; your thinking is dualistic.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 10:04 PM
Beirut wrote:

-
- The mods should crack down hardcore on the
- miscreants. A few days of locks, deletions, and bans
- would smarten everyone up.
-
- Over at the site for Janes WWII Fighters, the mods
- have zero tolerance for rudeness, politics and
- confrontation. The result is that the shmucks are
- weeded out and those who stay are polite, friendly
- and the discussions are flame and troll free. A
- great bunch of guys. Could be like that here too.
-

THAT is EXACTLY what im trying to say. Nothing more, nothing less!!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aeroart/images/hunhunter-texas_sig2a1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 10:42 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. Locking annoys eveyone, but banning is a fine solution. To lose even one of the aforementioned would be bad. To lose both... Lets hope we get our act together, and soon.

The Young Lions in the Forest suffer and lack, But thoser who know the Lord Shall not want of any good thing. Keep your tongue from Evil and your lips from speaking deciet. Depart from evil, do good and pursue it!

>Psalms

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 10:45 PM
"he mods should crack down hardcore on the
- miscreants"


Wow, it's becoming a sect!

Youhou, guys, back to reality: it's a game for us and a business for Ubi, not some kind of new pagan religion!


No, put together in ban-jail the bias trolls and the brown-noses, both species are equally boring /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 11:21 PM
CHDT wrote:
- No, put together in ban-jail the bias trolls and the
- brown-noses, both species are equally boring

I think you are confusing 'boring' with 'mature'/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aeroart/images/hunhunter-texas_sig2a1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 11:32 PM
No, not at all.

In my opinion, being mature is being able to discuss facts without going into personal remarks.

Being mature is also knowing how to act without being neither an unpolite person nor acting as a courtier. But being straight!

Cheers,







Message Edited on 10/11/0310:33PM by CHDT

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 01:28 AM
You know,

This strikes me as being looked for. All the heat that Oleg and the moderators with all the whining going on it is a wonder they havent closed these forums down.

I have to put my cents here by saying we need these forums like we need to take a crap daily, it is a must. I come on here for one simple reason: to gain knowledge and information. That is my main reason for comming here. half the time I skip over the whining threads because they do not contain any ambiguity, meaning they lack the Well thought out process it takes to post something. To tell you the truth most of the whiners do not know what they are really posting about. It takes alot of brainpower to post something so rediculous as BWAHAHAHHAHA IWANT MY P-51.

It all boils down that some people lack the maturity to post something coherent and well thought out. That is what is making this place not fun. It isnt anyone in general, rather it is the 13 year olds who wish to be the center of attention around here (Not to insult our young community), or older people (Again not to insult). I feel that if we had a tighter holdon the forums we would be better off

My 2 cents

S! Viper

<table style="filter:glow[color=red, strength=3"><tr><td> <font color=white>Viper
Commanding Officer VMF-513
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"
</font></td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 01:33 AM
CHDT wrote:
- No, not at all.
-
- In my opinion, being mature is being able to discuss
- facts without going into personal remarks.
-
- Being mature is also knowing how to act without
- being neither an unpolite person nor acting as a
- courtier. But being straight!

Yeah,your spot on. I misunderstood the 'sect' comment until i re-read the previous post!!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aeroart/images/hunhunter-texas_sig2a1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 05:13 AM
rhorta,

You seem to have 'unconsciously' made a point, which contradicts much of what you wrote, without even realizing it.

QUOTE: rhorta...
"its not the critical poster, but the loyal "defender of the realm"".

There is more often, than not, an attack before a defense.

I am sure the thread originator was not referring to 'decent' criticism. (And, 'decent' criticism does not mean beating a dead horse even after it is nothing but bones.

CHDT,

I will just comment on this by you:
""Large corporations would pay dearly to get the kind of feedback that Oleg and company get from the internet on a daily basis."".

You are right, but in the 'sense' of these forums, you are mistaken. The 'majority' of the user are not HERE.

-

I did not read Hunter82's thread/post, but I would probably agree with most of it from what i have read here.

I use to come here a great deal and try and help people. I have mentioned months ago that I was rarely coming here becuase of all the nonsense. Now, I come here sometimes and post what 'some' could construe as nonsense, because I want to be active again, but do not want to be here with all the nonsense. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif (Some will get what I just wrote, with others, it will just fly right over their head.)

Basically, we need more moderation that is more strict, and we do not need people continually demanding a lollipop when they have already been told they cannot have one.

(BTW, I am not singling anyone out in this thread. I just do not feel like replying to a great deal of comments made here.

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

T_O_A_D
10-12-2003, 08:05 AM
Dayak wrote:
- Oleg got a busy life and he is still posting some
- msg in Russians forum
-


Now you see I've been wondering this the whole time I've been reading this and as a matter of fact for several months.

How do you find these other forums in different languages?

I bet its more of a language barrier than we might think. Heck there are times when I'm on Teamspeak with the UK I get lost. Here in the states you can get lost in the english language if you travel far enough off the beaten path. The problem is we that speak it everyday butcher the heck out of it. Oleg probably knows english by the book better than any of us. Thus with our Smart remarks assumed as wit he gets lost, and assumes it wasn't nice. I know some of it hasn't been nice and was meant that way, but not all of it.

I myself figure its like the old saying

It takes 10 adda boys to clean up 1 oh sh!t.

That said It goes back to Olegs statement that the Onliners are a small % of the players. I would go along further and say the Ubi posters are an even smaller % So I would listen to there rants even less.

He should be able to tell how happy the public is by how may FB dic where purchase compared to IL2 and how many downloads of the most recent patch. If the #'s are getting lower then he has a problem.

My 2 cents

Oh and I would hate to loose anymore of the knowledgable good poster's here. That was my main reason for coming here and then getting hook on this place. General Room and Tech Room the others we have and lost don't effect me much if I even ever posted in them.
I try when possible to post help in both arena's. I like to be helpful, and hopefully appreciated for it. I don't know it all and neither do you, but together we can get it all done.

Ok I'm up to 3 cents now! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<Left>
131st_VFW (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/index.htm)

<Left>
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif MY Track IR Fix (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_ts&id=zwqtg)


<Center>http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/Mad_toad.jpg </a>

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 08:26 AM
agreed ! ( to first post and others )

I dont mind criticism as long as its "constructive".

Bad behavior isnt honorable!

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 09:46 AM
Well,we had the privilege to meet Oleg at Birmingham 2 weeks ago and he was talking to us for about 20 mins or more and watching whilst we flew his game.He seems genuine and really interested in peoples opinion on f/b.I do also think that maybe THE MODS should clamp down hard for a while,almost censorship if you like until people realise that they can post but with respect,THE BOTTOM LINE IS IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE GAME DON'T BUY IT OR PLAY IT.
Lets get this forum back so we can all enjoy it before it's pulled from under our feet..

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 10:23 AM
Criticism of Oleg is deserved. Frankly, they made a great game and ruined it by biasing the aircraft dynamics. I'm upset, I still want a responsible programming team.

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 03:20 PM
RealKill wrote:
- You seem to have 'unconsciously' made a point, which
- contradicts much of what you wrote, without even
- realizing it.
-
- QUOTE: rhorta...
- "its not the critical poster, but the loyal
- "defender of the realm"".
-
- There is more often, than not, an attack
- before a defense

I stand to differ...

You read what you want to read, however "defenders of the realm" was clearly meant sarcastically.

I really wonder what a head count in this forum would deliver. personally I would not be surprised if the majority of posts were flames by those same "Defenders" or at best people criticizing "whiners" for their critical voice.

There is so much hypocricy going on in this forum it makes one literally sick. The only reason to stick around is to check out the latest gossip on both the FB addons and Battle of Britain.

Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 04:28 PM
anonfrosty wrote:
- Criticism of Oleg is deserved. Frankly, they made a
- great game and ruined it by biasing the aircraft
- dynamics. I'm upset, I still want a responsible
- programming team.

Can you.. OR ANYBODY FOR THAT MATER.. give me *ONE* example of this?

I mean one concrete MEASURABLE thing that was RIGHT in the original IL2 game and is now WRONG due to BIASING. And by MEASURABLE I don't want something that says "IT FEELS" this or that, or a once in a blue moon situation where a slower plane caught your faster plane.. Because to me that just means you don't understand an aircraft E state.

Keep in mind I'M ASKING because to date I don't know if this is true.. Reason I don't know is all I ever seen link to this statement are things that could easily be explained by E states or just not knowing the AC strong and weak points..

I want something that will meet a SCIENTIFIC test.. i.e. set it up and it is REPEATABLE!! and MEASURABLE!! None of this *FEEL* crude or *I THINK* crude or *I READ THAT A SUCH AND SUCH WAS THE BEST* crude...

Just ONE example of something that WAS right in the original IL2 and is NOW wrong due to BIASING.. Just one!

Because to date I have never seen an example of it presented here.. Just the typical ACCUSATIONS of such deeds with NOTHING to back them up.

Oh and if your MEASURABEL example is a top speed that is off by +/- 10% spare me.. And if you do present a top speed, present the altitude it was obtained at in your data sheet.. There is a sweat spot for such things.. Most books dont tell you that it only happened at X altitude.. So give me soemthing real here folks! I want to learn what it is your so adiment about!

Here is a very VERY good example of how rumors get started, and can be easly explained with a little research. Im sure that this would be the case for 99% of the whining around here if people would just take the time and look into it like SkyChimp did in this example below

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yxlnw



<div style="background:#222222;color:#e0e0e0;font-size:24px;font-weight:bold;font-face:courier;"> TAGERT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?
</div>
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion


Message Edited on 10/12/0309:00AM by tagert

Buzz_25th
10-12-2003, 05:32 PM
anonfrosty

Guys like you are the core of the problem here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/drew2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 05:37 PM
They should replace the "New User" tag with "troll" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Just the way it feels lately with "new users" coming in here and spouting-off!

S! Simon.
<center>

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm).

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/ex1_soon.jpg
<font color="#000000">It's my attitude not my aptitude that determines my altitude.</font></center>

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 05:57 PM
Over on the tech forum, Hunter82 has made it clear he'll squish anyone who flames, trolls or is outright rude. Just a matter of time before the same thing happens here. Good.

As I mentioned, at the Janes WWII Fighters site, there are one or two guys who run the show. Get out of line, get one warning, then get squished. I've been a regular there for years and cannot remember anyone ever getting stupid. Ther's even an Off Topic forum that is nothing but polite and good natured fun.

"Let slip the mods of war!" A formal declaration intent should be made, then a short grace period, then zero tolerance. Let the trolls troll at the RPG sites.

And remember, this site has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It's a company site. You want freedom of speech - write for a newspaper.



"Official Lancaster Whiner"

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 06:37 PM
anonfrosty wrote:
- Criticism of Oleg is deserved. Frankly, they made a
- great game and ruined it by biasing the aircraft
- dynamics. I'm upset, I still want a responsible
- programming team.
-

Then go find what you would call a responsible programming team and keep your unfounded remarks to yourself.

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 06:53 PM
anonfrosty wrote:
- Criticism of Oleg is deserved. Frankly, they made a
- great game and ruined it by biasing the aircraft
- dynamics. I'm upset, I still want a responsible
- programming team.
-
-DON'T LIKE IT ,DON'T BUY IT,DON'T FLY IT THEN,we just want to enjoy our sim and keep the whining out as it will ruin this forum for others,i daresay like all the moaners on here you will be playing it again soon.

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 06:59 PM
It's funny listening to the people who want to be the next mod. Talk about some supreme butt-kissing going on in these type threads.

Could this overrated topic be beat to death anymore? The technical support forum didn't have any problems anyway. It was one of the places of rufuge. I find it silly to go in there and announce bad things for people that aren't nice, as a reaction to the problems of other FB forums. It only serves to divide the mods, to make it seem like some are doing a better job in their forums than others.

Why are there lot's of people whining? Why don't we ask ourselves that first before we switch the subject to what to do to them.

Hunter is one of those guys who decided to go out of his way to help everyone all the time. While its certianly a nice thing to do I don't think it's worth his time anyway, even if everyone in the forum was nice. So if he were to leave it would not be a tragedy, it could be the best thing that ever happened to him.

Oleg, he has been gone and need not return. I blame it on over-access. You got people emailing him and PM'ing him. He problably gets more of those than he even has time to go to "Oleg's Ready Room". Oleg's Ready Room?? How about making Oleg the only one that can start a thread then, or answer a thread. As it is it is "spam this post to 10 pages so Oleg will notice ready room".

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:02 PM
How about making Oleg the only one
- that can start a thread then, or answer a thread.
- As it is it is "spam this post to 10 pages so Oleg
- will notice ready room".
-
There's something in that. Ready Room will never work while it is totally open access.

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:10 PM
Gee's

I have been away for about a year now.
Picked up FB recently. (Great Sim)
Can't believe this shizer is still going on.
Before crap like this ruined it all.
Oleg and crew put everything they had into IL2.
Always listened and the final product was
fantastic. Yes there is always going to be differences
of opinion on a public forum. It could be constructive
if handled in the right manner. Hunter82 has done nothing
but help everyone. He always been Johny on the spot!
Like many of the old crew that I see less and less of.
SAD

S!

DerMadAdler

I have to redo my sig http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:13 PM
I agree with you hunhunter-texas!!
Constructive discussion is what it should be!
I so enjoy FB - it's fantastic!!!!

Buzz_25th
10-12-2003, 07:13 PM
Ray,

Your post is pretty funny coming from someone who started god knows how many trim whining threads. You've put your share of nails in the coffin.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/drew2.jpg


Message Edited on 10/12/0311:14AM by Buzz_25th

BlitzPig_Rock
10-12-2003, 07:20 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Ray,
-
- Your post is pretty funny coming from someone who
- started god knows how many trim whining threads.
- You've put your share of nails in the coffin.
-
-

They will stop as well. No more trim whining, no more clever trolls.

You guys want strict moderation - I`m afraid that this is coming very very soon.

I hope it works out the way we all seem to want it to.



<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/bpstuff/bobharris_image.jpg
<center><FONT COLOR="Red">UBI/IL2 Forum Moderator</FONT>
http://www.ubi.com/US/CommunityZone/Forums/guidelines

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:23 PM
FW190fan wrote:
- .. Oleg if he is offended or has his
- feelings hurt by what someone posts on the internet.
- It's simple business and that's the way business
- works sometimes.
-
- I own my own business. Dealing with the public can
- be a nightmare. But it is part of business and if
- you are going to be successful in business you have
- to learn to deal with customers and the good and bad
- that goes with it.
-
- I'm of the firm opinion that Oleg is making a big
- mistake if he is letting what some people are
- posting on the net drive him away from the
- community. Large corporations would pay dearly to
- get the kind of feedback that Oleg and company get
- from the internet on a daily basis.



I agree a 100%

feedback, wether good or bad, wether what you would consider perfect or not, means that people are using and aware of your product. Thats a good thing.

Clients of mine give me grief, direct or indirect, all the time.


Deal with it, thick skin is essential

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 10:00 PM
Johann63,

Hey! What are you doing with my trees? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BlitzPigRock,

Do as you shall. If this vast arena of incautious loquation is transformed into a smaller venue of air vehicle venacular, then good.

And to those who flame that this is a$$ kissing, let them flame all they want, for in the future they might be the first ones...

-gone.





"Official Lancaster Whiner"

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 10:56 PM
BlitzPig_Rock wrote:
-
-
- You guys want strict moderation - I`m afraid that
- this is coming very very soon.
-
- I hope it works out the way we all seem to want it
- to.
-

I wish you luck mate!! You have my full support. And just for the record, that is not a*s kissing as someone put it. It supporting someone who hopefully will return these forums to the pleasent,friendly, informative and fun places they used to be. This community USED to have a reputation as being one of the most friendly and helpfull on the net. It can be that again.



http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aeroart/images/hunhunter-texas_sig2a1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 01:45 AM
rhorta wrote:
- RealKill wrote:
- [Things.]
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I really do not need to reply to your response to me. I mean, I see no malice in it. Even if you are directing the "hypocricy" remarks partially towards me. No big deal.

I am just writng to make sure you know that I was not 'attacking' you.

-

About any future strict moderation... bring it on.

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 02:23 AM
"Do as you shall. If this vast arena of incautious loquation is transformed into a smaller venue of air vehicle venacular, then good."



Yeah!

What he said!

I think ?????? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif






Message Edited on 10/13/0301:26AM by DerMadAdler1

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 07:32 AM
"I'm taking my toys and going home" doesn't work in todays' marketplace- something that Oleg and Co. will learn to their cost if he has truly "broken" with his followers.

You simply cannot punish the majority of your constituents because of the bad manners of a few without alienating all.

And an alienated customer base is NO customer base.

I'm sorry, I love this sim, still have quite a bit of respect for Oleg, but being in business myself, have little sympathy for the attitude I described above.

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 09:04 AM
I have followed the forums since january 2002. It has been the first time I have returned with passion to continously follow the discussions and the different "stand-outs" (RBJ anyone?) in a gamespecific forum.

Thanks to the numerous people with knowledge and a sincere ambition to help people with lesser knowledge on WWII airwar history (me...) I once again started take interest and read more about this part of WWII history.

It is sad but in the recent months especially after FB was released the whining/bashing made the forums uninteresting. No more of serious discussion about specific techdata on the MK 103 or the tenacious debate about volume or punch (12.7mm vs 30mm). Just the same petty complaints about the FM on the simulated reproductions of the planes we never have had or will have the opportunity to fly IRL.

I think Oleg has done something amazing to the industry and us. He has shown the suits that dedication and talent can create software way away from the mainstream nonsense and in the same time unfold a much forgotten part of WWII history.

Oleg and the different people on the forum have provided me with both a reemerging interest in aviation history and an insight that there are more aviationbuffs out there. I am not alone! I want to thank you all for giving me alot of fun and laughter infront of the screen and also a reemerging interest that I am looking forward to dive into in the coming years.

Thank you all!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Noce

Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
/ Sun Tzu

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 09:38 PM
Nocereus... why, thank you! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (Although, I'm sure I did not do anything for you. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

OK. Those talking about 'the majority', again, the majority of the users are not here.

Also, if you see a thread with 200 replies, which, you should know, are mostly the same posters going back and forth, usually doing this to BUMP the thread and to keep pointing out what they 'want', those threads do not constitute the majority of the users's opinions here, either. (Notice I said, "usually", not always. Sometimes they are just going back and forth arguing. Rarely, the majority of the posters are actually just 'voting', which is always good.)

The bottom line here in these forums is that there is too much unwarranted abuse towards Ubi, 1C, and against Oleg, himself, personally. It needs to stop!

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 12:04 AM
bump.

It amazes me that some people here seem to think that Oleg is under some contractual obligation actually to listen to abusive whines. He's not and I guess he just decided that it's an inefficient use of his time to read abuse from people who, you might think, should know better.





http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 12:06 AM
bazzaah2 wrote:
- bump.
-
- It amazes me that some people here seem to think
- that Oleg is under some contractual obligation
- actually to listen to abusive whines. He's not and I
- guess he just decided that it's an inefficient use
- of his time to read abuse from people who, you might
- think, should know better.


Exactly my brother. Oleg could let Thunak (?) wipe this board off the map if he wanted too.

---------------------------------
Pround member: Fightin' Irish

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 12:08 AM
I already see the general forum getting better. I'm all about strict moderation for a while and then we can see the animals pop out of their holes when the moderations stops /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 12:11 AM
I think Thunak should hire some mods that will patrol round here 24/7, to stop these whiners where the come from

---------------------------------
Pround member: Fightin' Irish

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 12:13 AM
bazzaah2 wrote:
- bump.
-
- It amazes me that some people here seem to think
- that Oleg is under some contractual obligation
- actually to listen to abusive whines. He's not and I
- guess he just decided that it's an inefficient use
- of his time to read abuse from people who, you might
- think, should know better.
-
-
-You miss the point entirely.

It's NOT a contractual obligation. It's plain good common business sense to listen to, and interact with, your customers.

Get it?

That's what made Oleg and 1C Maddox different; they seemed to listen. If they stop listening, they will be just another software company, i.e, a program vending machine. No customer service, no interaction. Nothing. Pay your money, take your ride, we'll patch it if and when we decide to patch it.

Is that what we deserve as customers?


-
-
-


http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 01:08 AM
I think that oleg listens but the euro population and russian population in the non us forums is rather large and I bet he listens to them-and indirectly to us. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 04:31 AM
chris455, listen, listen, listen. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

This thread subject is not about good, decent, well thought out points, requests, or threads/posts.

(Unfortunately, even most of those turn to crap, ot have too much crap in them.)

It is about:

Constant whining.

Usually about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, (err, you're following me, I'm sure), again.

Abusive whining. (That is also and over and over ... Bla blah.)

Good people leaving because of said, including Oleg.

And, getting it through people's heads it needs to stop.

"Get it?" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-

Not trying to be mean, but I do not know how sooo many people cannot understand this. How in the world are people getting these two points confused?

Crap (Which is what is being refered to.)
VS
Good (Which 'we' are trying to get back/more of.)

EDIT: Again, not trying to sound mean or overbearing. And definitely not picking on you chris455. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

EDIT. Eeesh! How did I forget the main point? - If my understanding is correct... Oleg actually states, in public, that he is unhappy about that. (My words, not his.) Man, can that be any more clear? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

Message Edited on 10/13/03 10:35PM by RealKill

Message Edited on 10/13/0310:54PM by RealKill

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 01:01 PM
There is just one reason oleg doesnt use his real nick in this forum anymore and that is the fw190 view issue. He was and still is WRONG in the issue and isnt man enough to bite the pride and fix it. It has now been proved about 10 times and voted to be fixed by a vast majority of voters (read:customers) and still he dodges the issue. I have a feeling that his hurt pride on the 190 issue has a definite connection to the post-beta bias on the planeset.

Anyways I bet oleg still reads and posts here.. he just uses some other nick.

For what it is worth I hope he comes back with his real name and continues to build this sim to a better (not bitter) direction. Great sim, great community, greatest trolls.

-pozzu

------------------------------------------------------------
If war wasn't the answer and you would like to know the question... .. I guess you are american, right?

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 04:52 PM
tagert wrote:
- anonfrosty wrote:
-- Criticism of Oleg is deserved. Frankly, they made a
-- great game and ruined it by biasing the aircraft
-- dynamics. I'm upset, I still want a responsible
-- programming team.
-
- Can you.. OR ANYBODY FOR THAT MATER.. give me *ONE*
- example of this?
-
- I mean one concrete MEASURABLE thing that was RIGHT
- in the original IL2 game and is now WRONG due to
- BIASING. And by MEASURABLE I don't want something
- that says "IT FEELS" this or that, or a once in a
- blue moon situation where a slower plane caught your
- faster plane.. Because to me that just means you
- don't understand an aircraft E state.
-
- Keep in mind I'M ASKING because to date I don't know
- if this is true.. Reason I don't know is all I ever
- seen link to this statement are things that could
- easily be explained by E states or just not knowing
- the AC strong and weak points..
-
- I want something that will meet a SCIENTIFIC test..
- i.e. set it up and it is REPEATABLE!! and
- MEASURABLE!! None of this *FEEL* crude or *I THINK*
- crude or *I READ THAT A SUCH AND SUCH WAS THE BEST*
- crude...
-
- Just ONE example of something that WAS right in the
- original IL2 and is NOW wrong due to BIASING.. Just
- one!
-
- Because to date I have never seen an example of it
- presented here.. Just the typical ACCUSATIONS of
- such deeds with NOTHING to back them up.
-
- Oh and if your MEASURABEL example is a top speed
- that is off by +/- 10% spare me.. And if you do
- present a top speed, present the altitude it was
- obtained at in your data sheet.. There is a sweat
- spot for such things.. Most books dont tell you that
- it only happened at X altitude.. So give me
- soemthing real here folks! I want to learn what it
- is your so adiment about!
-
- Here is a very VERY good example of how rumors get
- started, and can be easly explained with a little
- research. Im sure that this would be the case for
- 99% of the whining around here if people would just
- take the time and look into it like SkyChimp did in
- this example below
-
- http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-
- topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yxlnw

Hey tag there is no example of that because it just isnt so. No wonder Oleg stays away from here. I would too if I put hours of work into a project, making sure all the details were correct or as correct as I could honestly make them, and still have people actually questioning my integrity and insinuating thsat my character is so shallow and that I would be so foolish as to even put out a product on the open market to a proven crowd of nit pickers..(read that savy consumers) and yet skew it for purely nationalistic reasons... It's ludicrous. Some of these folks who do that just want to hear themselves talk. The truth is that the ones with the real facts come with them, like Sky Chimp and some of the FW guys...(although as far as thecockpit thing went they never conclusively proved thier case IMO...they did prove it on some of the performance issues though). The others are just spouting stuff like a parrotrepeating what he heard but having no idea what he is saying. This sim is an incredible piece of work and I fore one am glad to have it and I will beforever in Oleg's debt (I will by any sim 1C makes sight unseen for the rest of my life as long as Oleg is involved with 1C...) for opening up a whole new world for me that was right under my nose all along but I just couldnt see it.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

Message Edited on 10/14/0311:53AM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:32 AM
TurboPorsas wrote:
- There is just one reason oleg doesnt use his real
- nick in this forum anymore and that is the fw190
- view issue. He was and still is WRONG in the issue
- and isnt man enough to bite the pride and fix it. It
- has now been proved about 10 times and voted to be
- fixed by a vast majority of voters (read:customers)
- and still he dodges the issue. I have a feeling that
- his hurt pride on the 190 issue has a definite
- connection to the post-beta bias on the planeset.
-
- Anyways I bet oleg still reads and posts here.. he
- just uses some other nick.
-
- For what it is worth I hope he comes back with his
- real name and continues to build this sim to a
- better (not bitter) direction. Great sim, great
- community, greatest trolls.


Only one thing to say about your post, TurboPorsas.

It is nonsense.

BTW, where are you from?

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 02:33 AM
You started an interesting debate here. Interesting, but if you're a marketing-type at Ubisoft Entertainment, IL2's forum has about 300,000 hits so far. That's some 19 times greater than the nearest rival in their stable. It means there is a massive after-market for this game, and super potential for the next version. Oleg is probably feeling more stressed by the pressure these guys are putting on him than the "whining" on the forum. What do you think?

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 02:42 AM
I'm part of the LW 190 cockpit nemap group but I still believe Oleg is amazing and worth his weight in "proverbial" gold.

If I have to live flying an FW with a more limited FOV than the real version then I won't complain one bit.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif