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BadBOO17
09-17-2018, 06:39 AM
Balance zerker on console

David_gorda
09-17-2018, 08:45 AM
Balance zerker on console yeah i am not playing this Game anymore until Zerker is nerfed.

Vrbas1
09-17-2018, 04:30 PM
Mind elaborating so the community can speak to the issue and generate some discussion?

PepsiBeastin
09-17-2018, 04:33 PM
Mind elaborating so the community can speak to the issue and generate some discussion?

I mean you can't really describe him better than a weasel on cocaine.

Vrbas1
09-17-2018, 04:44 PM
I mean you can't really describe him better than a weasel on cocaine.

So I deduce you are struggling with his constant feinting and hyper armor (or assume the OP is).

I mentioned this in another thread, but if you can put a little bit of distance between him in your fights I think it will make a world of difference. If he starts revving up his cheese machine just backstep and let him putter about, he'll run out of steam eventually and when he's reconsidering what to do next it gives you a window of opportunity to attack. The last place you want a Zerker is close quarters, but if he is up in your face and you're struggling to react to which side he's going to heavy-feint-to-light you can always throw in a random GB - this usually stops him dead.

I play Zerk heavily and choose not to abuse his feint spam because I disagree with the play style and find it toxic. I use his infinite chain outright with a good amount of success and will usually only feint the heavy finishers from time to time. I understand the majority of Zerkers do not play this way however and share your level of frustration.

iadvisoryi
09-17-2018, 05:14 PM
Literally practice parrying his lights and zerker is nothing. Good luck

Wes8504
09-17-2018, 05:47 PM
With the change to gear coming (stats being replaced with perks), zerker (along with everyone else) won't be able to go off like they have been. There will no longer be stam reduction on moves, stam will regen at the same rate for everyone, and exhaustion will take longer to recover from. It will be interesting to see how people react to this change, and how it will change the game requiring people to pay more attention to their stamina management.

DefiledDragon
09-17-2018, 05:51 PM
With the change to gear coming (stats being replaced with perks), zerker (along with everyone else) won't be able to go off like they have been. There will no longer be stam reduction on moves, stam will regen at the same rate for everyone, and exhaustion will take longer to recover from. It will be interesting to see how people react to this change, and how it will change the game requiring people to pay more attention to their stamina management.

My prediction is gale force rants with at least 36" of tears falling per hour.

EvoX.
09-17-2018, 10:06 PM
Balance him on PC as well, he's not that more manageable here.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-17-2018, 10:51 PM
Hahahaha! It's funny I mention giving heavies like shugoki active HA on GB and people say no cuz he would be a monster...but we already have monsters that feint spam.

How it should be:
Counter attackers: light spam/reflex guard
Vanguard: medium speed light attack unparryable/ full guard/ has unblockables on second heavy
Heavy: reflex guard/ medium speed parriable light uninteruptable/ active HA gb/ slow unblockable heavy on first attack.

BadBOO17
09-17-2018, 11:19 PM
Balance him on PC as well, he's not that more manageable here.

Yeah i could see 400ms light attacks with HA being too strong no matter what you play on

BoogiemanMF
09-17-2018, 11:26 PM
So I deduce you are struggling with his constant feinting and hyper armor (or assume the OP is).

I mentioned this in another thread, but if you can put a little bit of distance between him in your fights I think it will make a world of difference. If he starts revving up his cheese machine just backstep and let him putter about, he'll run out of steam eventually and when he's reconsidering what to do next it gives you a window of opportunity to attack. The last place you want a Zerker is close quarters, but if he is up in your face and you're struggling to react to which side he's going to heavy-feint-to-light you can always throw in a random GB - this usually stops him dead.

I play Zerk heavily and choose not to abuse his feint spam because I disagree with the play style and find it toxic. I use his infinite chain outright with a good amount of success and will usually only feint the heavy finishers from time to time. I understand the majority of Zerkers do not play this way however and share your level of frustration.

Although the way to counter him you say is true and thats how I counter him. I think the question is should i have to play that way to beat any character? Is it to unbalanced to have a character who can stand in front of you and toss out the fastest attacks available in the game from any direction and the best way to fight him is to play keep away? I think thats what this guys trying to say he just didnt feel like typing. The amount of stamina, speed, hyper armor and damage berserker does is honestly kinda ridiculous

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-17-2018, 11:58 PM
Although the way to counter him you say is true and thats how I counter him. I think the question is should i have to play that way to beat any character? Is it to unbalanced to have a character who can stand in front of you and toss out the fastest attacks available in the game from any direction and the best way to fight him is to play keep away? I think thats what this guys trying to say he just didnt feel like typing. The amount of stamina, speed, hyper armor and damage berserker does is honestly kinda ridiculous

I completely agree with this statement. Balance is a joke in this game. How is this better than Pk being the top dog? It's worse. On console it's nearly unreactable. At least with Pk she didn't have HA or a feint game.

DefiledDragon
09-18-2018, 12:05 AM
While I agree that balance in the game is somewhat questionable, to put it diplomatically, I also think it's good that different characters require different tactics to beat them, otherwise it would be a pretty boring game. This is, in my view, where the lack of experience in the genre shows. The diversity is there, they just don't know how to balance it.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-18-2018, 12:52 AM
While I agree that balance in the game is somewhat questionable, to put it diplomatically, I also think it's good that different characters require different tactics to beat them, otherwise it would be a pretty boring game. This is, in my view, where the lack of experience in the genre shows. The diversity is there, they just don't know how to balance it.

Respectfully I disagree. Take shooter games for example. Basically the same "boring" act over and over yet the fun comes from out smarting, having better reactions than your opponent, using the environment to your advantage, using your equipment as best you can. Take Mario cart as another example or rocket league. Their are tons of games that should be boring from the lack of diversity but defy that ruling.

DefiledDragon
09-18-2018, 01:29 AM
Respectfully I disagree. Take shooter games for example. Basically the same "boring" act over and over yet the fun comes from out smarting, having better reactions than your opponent, using the environment to your advantage, using your equipment as best you can. Take Mario cart as another example or rocket league. Their are tons of games that should be boring from the lack of diversity but defy that ruling.

On the surface there's a lack of diversity, sure, but let's take CS:S as an example. Ignoring objective modes for the purposes of a diversity in balance discussion, the mechanics are basic. Shoot people before they shoot you. Let's say I'm in a 1 v 1 and I have a sniper rifle and my opponent has a shotgun. In order to stand the best chance of winning, I have to keep him at range and he has to close the distance. Are sniper rifles OP? At long range, sure, that's what they're designed for, but their poor performance in close quarters, requirement for stability and pinpoint accuracy and their low rate of fire keep them balanced. Are shotguns OP? Well, if your opponent is within 20 feet or so, yeah they pack a punch and don't require absolute precision to be effective and they are still effective when mobile but their reliance on closing the distance, the inaccuracy at long range and high damage falloff due to spread pattern keeps them balanced. Two very different loadouts, both are very good at what they're designed to do, but their effectiveness is reduced outside of the combat situations for which they are designed.

This is what the roster of For Honor should be like, but it isn't. All the characters should have strengths and weaknesses, but they don't. There are characters on the roster who have no real weaknesses to speak of and there are characters who have no real strengths. This is what creates the imbalance. It's not the diversity itself, rather, it's the way that diversity has been implemented. The sniper rifles in For Honor are just as useful at close range as they are at distance whereas the shotguns still suck at long range.

BadBOO17
09-18-2018, 07:36 AM
Although the way to counter him you say is true and thats how I counter him. I think the question is should i have to play that way to beat any character? Is it to unbalanced to have a character who can stand in front of you and toss out the fastest attacks available in the game from any direction and the best way to fight him is to play keep away? I think thats what this guys trying to say he just didnt feel like typing. The amount of stamina, speed, hyper armor and damage berserker does is honestly kinda ridiculous

Summed it up pretty much perfectly. Its just annoying to fight after awhile. Its like conqs bash you know hes going to abuse that move but countering it is very very unneccessarily tough. Keep his hyper armored heavies but make sure he cant transfer it over to his lights and i think i can deal with his 400ms unreactable lights

Vrbas1
09-18-2018, 03:04 PM
Although the way to counter him you say is true and thats how I counter him. I think the question is should i have to play that way to beat any character? Is it to unbalanced to have a character who can stand in front of you and toss out the fastest attacks available in the game from any direction and the best way to fight him is to play keep away? I think thats what this guys trying to say he just didnt feel like typing. The amount of stamina, speed, hyper armor and damage berserker does is honestly kinda ridiculous

Well, quite frankly this strategy can be applied to any hero not just Zerker. It really disrupts the "flow" of fights as we are used to them because it's just natural to wanna get up there and face hug until one of you is dead. So it's kind of a mentality shift.

I mention Zerker because he is advertised as a short range harasser. Again, you don't want him in your face because of his particular kit. I'm not saying the only way to beat him is to play "keep away", I'm saying the strategy has been working for me (and against me when I play him) so I wanted to pass along to others. At the end of the day I don't think he's perfect, and I absolutely despise the cheesy feint spammers. I personally think consecutive feints should cost more stamina w/ each iteration.