View Full Version : Dynamic unlimited market

09-05-2018, 02:28 PM
A thing wich was always a bit missing in the anno series is a supply and demand mechanic as well as in- and decreasing prizes wich go along with them.

Anno could bring trading (and game speed) a bit up using this.
So the basic idea is:

1-All goods can be activley (you can order your ship to get/bring the goods) sold and bought in unlimited quantities (off course as long as your ship can store them).

2-Goods prices go up/down based on how much they are bought/sold.

the advanced idea:

1-Goods would all have a base price on wich the game starts (these prices might be in a new game toggable to low-random-or high to create moe interesting games and offer higher replayability)

2-You no longer set up a price when you buy or sell passive goods at a warehouse but you use a percentage. standard Example: when buying you pay 120% of base value and 80% when selling. You could adjust these prices to 50%/150% to in- or decrease the likelyhood npc traders will trade these goods with u (simular like anno npc traders always worked.)

3-All of these prices have a rate on wich the normalize to their base price based on some things like total map population or other sales are being made or other.
If u buy or sell on continious rates, prices won't change alot. But if you buy large amounts of a raw resource instead of producing and sell this finished product on a mass scale then the price of the raw resource would go up and the price of the finished product would go down resulting in very poor profits if you invest to much in 1 product.
The further away the price get's from it base price the faster the rate would become to normalize the price again so no "to weird" things can happen.

4-Ways to make these active trades could be with npc trader ports or perhaps even off-map and would be made possible by making a continious trading route.

5-Price changes like these count for every player in the game so if you are selling a good, this good will eventually become cheaper for another player who is buying it and vice versa.

6-If this system get's implemented, there must be an easy clear way to see wich products are currently chepa or expensive.
perhaps the normal background when prices are normal and the background getting increasingly more green or more red when the price is expensive or cheap.

What would this mean for gameplay?
-There will be alot more reliable and less waiting for trading becouse people can actively unlimited buying resources (building materials) and therefore develop their islands faster.
-No game will ever be the same so it will offer a much greater replayability.
-easy to produce goods would lose there value if you abuse them to much by producing way to much (really way to much, people should not be to scared to produce more then what they need or buy some extra raw resources).
-Stockpile trading could become a profitable buisness becouse buyign a good when it is on low price and selling it later when the price has gotten up can make a fine extra profit!
-Much more player interaction even without direclty interacting with each other in both peace and war times.
-in some cases people might actually consider buying a consumer good rather then producing it if another player sells alot of it.
-Having a production line wich requires 3 base resources but you lack one will make players to buy the last one rather then producing it if they can count on delivery.
-Npc players could have a high impact on this market as they can be scripted to focus on certain goods (like npc's in 1701 did, i remember the sweet fat lady being all cheerfull if you sold her chocolats! And perhaps a more aggresive mpc who brings the price for weapons up/down as he would constantly be buying/selling weapons)
-The game should also not be to drastic in this as the goal is still to create a nice town and produce all the goods and have loads of money in the end-game.
This would just make everything until that point alot more interesting and clear's out any unrealistic abuses.

Good idea?
Just to make it sure this would be an extra touch to the game.
please note, the market value should not become to important either unless players are doing some crazy things like producing 10 times more then what they need or never something they need.

09-06-2018, 02:55 PM
I like this idea, but I don't think it'd work out that well... Since waiting might give better pricing, some people will avoid the low selling costs and vice versa...

You gave a very detaied idea, but I do think the flaws are:
unlimited recources... This makes no sense, you remove complexity in this case (maybe only for easy mode though?!(
stockpiling removes complexity... You can store ie 1000's of tools and where would the fun be in getting them???
more player interaction... can be good, can be bad... You want some expensive fishes like people did in ao? (1 fish for 999,999 coins)
And another one for playerinteraction... Some people dump goods (like 100's of fishes for 15 coins a piece) so the beginners have a really hard time to make some profit of overproduced items

09-07-2018, 07:59 AM
Well i'l explain the goal about it abit bettter here.

1. unlimited is correct but if you buy redeculessly alot the price would go up and up and up to a point it is far to expensive to buy it and you really should consider producing (more of) it.
This is also a focus on late game when you are usually playing solo on the map just make a very big city and you have tons of money you can't really use becouse money is not an issue anymore.
If you look at how the world worked, larger cities usually buy alot of things and smaller ones sell alot. The normilazation rates are important for this as the price would not climb trough the roof if you keep buying smaller amounts but it would drive the price up alittle and it would stabilize at some points. if you double your purchases then the price would again go up but again it would stabilize at some point. So unlimited only means up to a point you are prepared to pay the price.

2.well no you can indeed stockpile goods for later sale but the vanilla stockpile rules would still aply meaning that if you are early game you do not have alot of room for stockpiling but this space grows while your city grows and it could make building more buildings/items wich increase your warehouse storage amounts becouse they can potentially increase those profits. If you compare with 1404's stockpile getting to 999 stockpile units was a huge task while you are already midgame when your stockpile amount get's over 50.

3.again that's whta the normilization rates are for. The big diffrence between here is that anno is a continous game and this pricing system should reflect that, making goods wich are bought noticable more expensive and things you sale alot noticable less profitable but only up to a point. You must be overproducing ALOT if you sell a good to the point it would no longer be profitable at all but then you would being punished for focussing so much on one good, a punishment other alert players could take advantage off by buying them at a much lower price. If the rates where based on total population prices would again go up while the world is expanding. It could even be some that rates drop again and make it go the other way around again if you destroy your opponents and thus making world population drop for a large part. And back to your point i also would have no problems if every good had a minimum and maximum price altough these stats should be far apart from each other otherwise this system would have no effect.

4.If the money flow goes a bit like 2070 taxes are an equally important money income over trade. At least when i play in the early games i have a very good money balance in + and in 2070 this made quite some profit. In 1404 taxes and maintenance where rediculessly low and being in a -5000 balance didn't matter alot if you just sold everything off you'd be a millionaire in no time. This again made people (or at least me) encoure to increase the city sice faster for the extra income rather then in 1404 where i'd only largend my city when i needed more people to unlock the next tier buildings. Making taxation more important alos gives you more time in the beginning to plan your city and expansion and gives you time to explore the map and do missions. As for the selling, you won't produce that much in the beginning to do alot to it's price but indeed if you would build alot of fishermen and have a few ships selling them then the price of fish can surely drop. But the goal is in the beginning to go at least one tier up anyway and by then you already have over at least 6 finished goods you can produce.

This is all about adding tactics and replayability into the game where in previous games you know what is profitable and what goods are good for profit and wich ones you just want to produce up to your consumption. I got this idea from a game called offworld trading company and i play it regularly with friends. While the market in that game is 90% of the game i dod not want this system that important in anno. i think the market should be important for about 30% of the game or so. If you build in anno to be selfsufficient and only sell small amounts the market would have very little impact on your playstyle.
I know it can be a scary system and i make it quite complex in my explenation but it is all indeed to prevent weird things like the 1 fish for 999.999 gold coins you gave as an example.
But i also feel that fixed prices are actually a really mood killer in a game that focusses alot on economics. It also fits the setting as in 1800 the world was largly settled by then and if you got the gold you could buy anything.