PDA

View Full Version : For The Viking Horde!!!!!



BigDaddyDevil
08-31-2018, 03:51 PM
The time has come my brothers and sisters in arms. 22 hours left in this round of the faction war. get online and stay online get your friends family randoms from other games. que up and lets win this fight like its the last day before ragnarok. fight for honor for glory for the viking horde!!!! add me on ps4 deathball till victory.

PepsiBeastin
08-31-2018, 03:52 PM
https://i.gyazo.com/cf155d84fc5823a53c8fc0b7176c38c3.png

NHLGoldenKnight
08-31-2018, 06:43 PM
I will spill your blood in the name of God, dirty heathen.

BigDaddyDevil
08-31-2018, 06:43 PM
For The Horde !!!!

Tyrjo
08-31-2018, 06:53 PM
https://tv-fanatic-res.cloudinary.com/iu/s--zWgq_llQ--/t_slideshow/cs_srgb,f_auto,fl_strip_profile.lossy,q_auto:420/v1426079200/slides/vikings-17-most-brutal-moments_ragnars-the-king-of-brutality.jpg

NHLGoldenKnight
08-31-2018, 07:04 PM
There is a reason why Vikings pretty much stopped to exist after introduction of early knights.

Steelsoldier555
08-31-2018, 08:42 PM
You filthy Viking SAVAGES! The time of your slaughter against my fellow knights will end HERE! The Knights of Ashfeld banner will flow gracefully in the sky over a field of your fallen “brothers and sisters” corpses! DEUS VULT

BigDaddyDevil
08-31-2018, 10:11 PM
You filthy Viking SAVAGES! The time of your slaughter against my fellow knights will end HERE! The Knights of Ashfeld banner will flow gracefully in the sky over a field of your fallen ďbrothers and sistersĒ corpses! DEUS VULT
odin willing we pray you do give us a honerable glories death. so the valkyries may carry us to the great hall in valhalla. to feast, drink and fight alongside the gods. before thy death our viking horde will strike down with the fury of thor. 10 of you for every one of us you slay. for that is how we shall be victorious. the viking horde fears not death we welcome it embrace it. you can not defeat a man who does not fear death. who has nothing to lose everything to gain. the might of our mighty pagan gods by our side. we live fight die for honor, glory and the viking horde!!!!

yfkutfui
08-31-2018, 10:35 PM
remember Volvo, SAAB, IKEA.......and ABBA.

now forward Sons & Daughters of the All father Odin and let us bring the fury of the Norsemen down upon the heads of our enemies!!!!


http://www.simplyeighties.com/resources/abba.jpg?timestamp=1236200569803

ChampionRuby50g
08-31-2018, 11:01 PM
There is a reason why Vikings pretty much stopped to exist after introduction of early knights.

Vikings didnít stop to exist. They simply stopped raiding because it wasnít profitable to do so, they over extended themselves over the world as they travelled so far, or converted to Christianity. The Vikings didnít get conquered, they became the Danes and Swedes.

Tundra 793
09-01-2018, 12:10 AM
Vikings didn’t stop to exist. They simply stopped raiding because it wasn’t profitable to do so, they over extended themselves over the world as they travelled so far, or converted to Christianity. The Vikings didn’t get conquered, they became the Danes and Swedes.

To go even further; Viking culture simply began to phase out towards the end of the 10th century, but there are stories of certain Norsemen who kept on raiding into the 11th and 12th centuries.
There were a lot of reasons why the Viking culture ended, but none of them had anything to do with the introduction of Knights. By the time the Knight concept developed in Europe, the former Viking countries were Christianized, and so adopted many of the same customs and technological advancements as continental Europe, among them, Knights.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-01-2018, 12:15 AM
Vikings didnít stop to exist. They simply stopped raiding because it wasnít profitable to do so, they over extended themselves over the world as they travelled so far, or converted to Christianity. The Vikings didnít get conquered, they became the Danes and Swedes.

As a final result, yes. Lack of profit.
But what was leading to that is that other countries got their centralized government and they organised their military and trained their units well. Most of the Vikings raids were aimed towards unprotected villages and towns, where every dozen miles some "king" would rule. England is god example. There was few exceptions where they did actually fight good battles but mostly they would bully women, kids, monks and farmers with basic military training. Once they actually started to fight vs real trained and orginised military units, they quickly fallen apart. Fortification of towns and monasteries also helped with that.

So while they couldn't make a profit from their raids, real reason wasn't lack of goods or valuables, it was heavy losses they would have to go through just to raid one town. When they tried to take England or at least secure one portion of their land, they got completely destroyed by England's army and at that point, most of them just went back to their homes to become farmers. Small part went to work as mercenaries for different kings and governments.

Also, Vikings were mostly described as groups of men and women going on a raides. Danes and Swedes were always there in a way, since they were regular people, mostly farmers. Some would argue that they did lose, since they had to accept Christianity and Pope.

Tundra 793
09-01-2018, 12:33 AM
But what was leading to that is that other countries got their centralized government and they organised their military and trained their units well. Most of the Vikings raids were aimed towards unprotected villages and towns, where every dozen miles some "king" would rule. England is god example. There was few exceptions where they did actually fight good battles but mostly they would bully women, kids, monks and farmers with basic military training. Once they actually started to fight vs real trained and orginised military units, they quickly fallen apart. Fortification of towns and monasteries also helped with that.


This is largely correct. A huge part of the initial Viking raids were aimed at coastal towns, or really anything that could be attacked from a body of water. What made these raids so succesful was simply that it was a brand new type of warfare; Europe simply had no defense against it. As time went on, of course they adapted and started forming governments, and standing armies to better repel the invaders.


However, you're somewhat mistaken in saying that they quickly fell apart when faced with a trained fighting force. For context; England was not one unified country during the Viking age, but rather 4 independent Kingdoms, East Anglia, Mercia, Northumbria and Wessex. When the Vikings invaded in full force with an army in 865, they conquered all but 1 of these kingdoms in but a few years, and ended up virtually ruling half of England for several years. Wessex was blessed with cunning rulers during the period, who managed to stave off the repeated attempts to invade and conquer The Last Kingdom, but they subdued the rest of the isle, and that's nothing to scoff at.


So while they couldn't make a profit from their raids, real reason wasn't lack of goods or valuables, it was heavy losses they would have to go through just to raid one town. When they tried to take England or at least secure one portion of their land, they got completely destroyed by England's army and at that point, most of them just went back to their homes to become farmers. Small part went to work as mercenaries for different kings and governments.

Concerning "Englands" army; See above.
I'm afraid heavy losses wasn't quite why they stopped raiding. Despite popular culture depicting Viking Age Scandinavia as a barren wasteland full of polar bears and frost giants, the most densely populated areas around Denmark, Western and Southern Norway, and Eastern and Southern Sweden were quite temperate. In fact, Denmark was fertile enough that it could sustain a population nessecary for centuries of warfare, unlike most of Norway and Sweden.
It's also important to note that Vikings were farmers by default. Viking was not a profession one could commit to year round. Scandinavians would tend to the fields, fish, build etc. during fall, spring and winter, only raiding during the summer, when ocean travel was more feasible.


Also, Vikings were mostly described as groups of men and women going on a raides. Danes and Swedes were always there in a way, since they were regular people, mostly farmers. Some would argue that they did lose, since they had to accept Christianity and Pope.

"Had" might be a strong word, in the beginning it was largely voluntary. The Viking countries were never invaded and forced to convert by any outside force, but rather the Danish King, Harald Bluetooth, whom you might recognize from the thing on your phone, willingly converted, and by extension converted Denmark and parts of Norway without much fuss, but the Old Faith was kept alive for centuries still.
One theory postulates than Harald did this to avoid an invasion by Otto I and the Holy Roman Empire, but evidence is scarce. Whether or not this constitutes a loss depends on your point of view. Both Denmark and Sweden went on to become major powers at varying points in time, both having their rise and fall, and England herself was under Danish rule for a spell. Ironically, when they gained Wessex it was without bloodshed.

ChampionRuby50g
09-01-2018, 01:51 AM
I was really hoping youíd swing past to expand on this Tundra, as you are much more knowledgeable than I on Vikings. Good to see you on the forums again too

I was going to mention the Viking conquest of England, and how they set up puppet kings to rule as they continued to massacre the English population.

When King Harald Hadrada invaded England around 1085?, that defeat was considered to be the end of the Viking age, but thatís not to say they died out after that. My favourite story off the battle of Stamford Bridge was the lone Viking Beserker who stood on the bridge and single handedly held back the entire English army, killing up to 40 Englishmen himself before one went under the bridge and impaled him from below with a spear.

That just shows that one Viking equals 40 Englishmen ďknightsĒ 😏

NHLGoldenKnight
09-01-2018, 02:07 AM
So you do like fairytales?

BigDaddyDevil
09-01-2018, 02:12 AM
I was really hoping youíd swing past to expand on this Tundra, as you are much more knowledgeable than I on Vikings. Good to see you on the forums again too

I was going to mention the Viking conquest of England, and how they set up puppet kings to rule as they continued to massacre the English population.

When King Harald Hadrada invaded England around 1085?, that defeat was considered to be the end of the Viking age, but thatís not to say they died out after that. My favourite story off the battle of Stamford Bridge was the lone Viking Beserker who stood on the bridge and single handedly held back the entire English army, killing up to 40 Englishmen himself before one went under the bridge and impaled him from below with a spear.

That just shows that one Viking equals 40 Englishmen ďknightsĒ 😏
lol good man im sure odin raised a horn in his honor when he got to valhalla. the viking tv show with its many history mistakes on viking culture armor etc... they got that right the english were awestruck and terrified. by the norsemen. they never seen such fearless warriors who wanted to kill as much as they wanted die in battle.

ChampionRuby50g
09-01-2018, 03:36 AM
So you do like fairytales?

Whatís your point?

Tundra 793
09-01-2018, 03:39 AM
I was really hoping you’d swing past to expand on this Tundra, as you are much more knowledgeable than I on Vikings. Good to see you on the forums again too

Anytime brother, my history sense was tingling.


I was going to mention the Viking conquest of England, and how they set up puppet kings to rule as they continued to massacre the English population.

Quite true, sometimes puppets, sometimes local rulers simply decided, eh, If we don't fight they won't horribly murder us all. Win/win.


When King Harald Hadrada invaded England around 1085?, that defeat was considered to be the end of the Viking age, but that’s not to say they died out after that. My favourite story off the battle of Stamford Bridge was the lone Viking Beserker who stood on the bridge and single handedly held back the entire English army, killing up to 40 Englishmen himself before one went under the bridge and impaled him from below with a spear.

That just shows that one Viking equals 40 Englishmen “knights” ��

Close, 1066, though a generous and accurate timescale of the entire Viking Age would be ca. 750-1100.
A true Saga tale, Norse ferocity and British ingenuity.


So you do like fairytales?

While Sagas are not, and in fact are far from, historical fact, fairytale is a stretch. Sure, there might not have been only 1 warrior on that bridge, and sure, maybe he/they didn't outright kill 40 Englishmen, but the battle happened, and something prompted that part of the Saga to be told.
In might just have been 1 dude with a big axe who killed 3-4 Englishmen before someone stabbed him, but that's still mighty impressive.


lol good man im sure odin raised a horn in his honor when he got to valhalla. the viking tv show with its many history mistakes on viking culture armor etc... they got that right the english were awestruck and terrified. by the norsemen. they never seen such fearless warriors who wanted to kill as much as they wanted die in battle.

The first two seasons of Vikings were reasonably accurate and entertaining, and you're very right; The portrayal of the English reaction to the first Viking attacks is somewhat realistic, or what could have been expected. It's been downhill since then though, and frankly, I really dislike the show these days, it's downright laughable.
Fun fact; Not all Vikings went to, or even wanted to go to Valhalla.
Odin claimed half of all warriors who died in battle, but Freya claimed the other, who'd go on to live in Asgard on Freya's plain; Fůlkvangr.

dinosaurlicker
09-01-2018, 04:01 AM
All of you need to shut your dirty mouths, because itís likely that you are either,

1. An illiterate neckbeard pig

Or

2. A cumcano worshipper screaming ďdEuS VUltĒ everywhere you go


Hasnít history shown us that 2D waifus, anime, and hentaihaven .org grant more power than any one man could ever have? This is what we Samurai are all about. We will win. You never even had a chance. Our blades are sharpened to perfection by blacksmiths utilizing techniques you tin cans and neckbeards couldnít possibly imagine, itís simply a process which is unfathomable to you and your joke weaponry. Our spirit is sharpened by bushido code and our strict sense of duty. We know that the only alternative to success is death, and we know that failure will be the last thing we remember apart from our favorite anime grills. Our minds have been sharpened by years of training on 9anime.to, and we have been cultured to the highest degree by our desire to look at 2D waifus. Only the most renowned Samurai are allowed to sharpen their minds on hentaihaven.org, and being chosen as one of the few permitted to browse these archives is something that every Samurai strives to achieve.

Everytime one of you scum calls me a weeaboo, I simply laugh. In what manner can this possibly be an insult? Many a time have your kin been squirming on the ground, laying in a puddle of their own blood, calling me a dirty weeb with their last breaths. On these occasions, Iíve cleaned off my katana with your sistersí favorite underwear, and ended your misery as a sacrifice to Kami-sama, the inventor of anime. Itís pathetic to think that even after I banged your mother, sister, stole your virginity, and castrated you like the filthy pig you are, you have the nerve to call me a weeabo.

Ha. Pathetic.

You pitiful little neckbeard/tincan. Is it not I, The Deliverer of Justice and Moe Culture, that gave your life some meaning? Your role as a sacrificial pig will be remembered. Your life, will not.

And on that note, I must bid you お別れ.

(that means farewell in english, you uncultured swine)

Have fun taking your L. Because youíll wish you hadnít made fun of anime and 2D waifus once the Samurai are done with you.

Tundra 793
09-01-2018, 04:05 AM
-snip-

Jean-Claude Van Daaamn son... That's a long burn...

NHLGoldenKnight
09-01-2018, 04:43 AM
Whatís your point?

My point is that what you are referring to was just a story, nothing more. As someone said earlier, that one Viking probably took down couple of soldiers, maybe not even 4 . But over the time, it became 40.

I went through bloody war as a kid, even had to learn how to use weapons when I was 7. Every day there would be a story about a soldier who single handedly destroyed couple of tanks and killed dozen or more enemies. Next week, I would hear that it was actually 5 tanks and 2 dozen enemies. Month later, 10 tanks and 50 enemies. But hard reality was that guy just threw couple of grenades, damaged tracks of one tank and injured 1 or 2 soldiers.

So, story about Viking holding off bridge by himself is cute bedtime story. Nothing more.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-01-2018, 04:50 AM
All of you need to **** your dirty mouths, because itís likely that you are either,

1. An illiterate neckbeard pig

Or

2. A cumcano worshipper screaming ďdEuS VUltĒ everywhere you go


Hasnít history shown us that 2D waifus, anime, and hentaihaven.org grant more power than any one man could ever have? This is what we Samurai are all about. We will win. You never even had a chance. Our blades are sharpened to perfection by blacksmiths utilizing techniques you tin cans and neckbeards couldnít possibly imagine, itís simply a process which is unfathomable to you and your joke weaponry. Our spirit is sharpened by bushido code and our strict sense of duty. We know that the only alternative to success is death, and we know that failure will be the last thing we remember apart from our favorite anime grills. Our minds have been sharpened by years of training on 9anime.to, and we have been cultured to the highest degree by our desire to look at 2D waifus. Only the most renowned Samurai are allowed to sharpen their minds on hentaihaven.org, and being chosen as one of the few permitted to browse these archives is something that every Samurai strives to achieve.

Everytime one of you scum calls me a weeaboo, I simply laugh. In what manner can this possibly be an insult? Many a time have your kin been squirming on the ground, laying in a puddle of their own blood, calling me a dirty weeb with their last breaths. On these occasions, Iíve cleaned off my katana with your sistersí favorite underwear, and ended your misery as a sacrifice to Kami-sama, the inventor of anime. Itís pathetic to think that even after I banged your mother, sister, stole your *****, and castrated you like the filthy pig you are, you have the nerve to call me a weeabo.

Ha. Pathetic.

You pitiful little neckbeard/tincan. Is it not I, The Deliverer of Justice and Moe Culture, that gave your life some meaning? Your role as a sacrificial pig will be remembered. Your life, will not.

And on that note, I must bid you お別れ.

(that means farewell in english, you uncultured swine)

Have fun taking your L. Because youíll wish you hadnít made fun of anime and 2D waifus once the Samurai are done with you.

Stfu and go deliver some tofu :)

If there is something more overrated than Vikings, it would be Samurai. Sub par weapons that were glorified in the minds of geeks but used mostly by Japanese warriors for sepukku (harikiri) since Japanese were mostly losing every single war. Centuries of shame. Lol

Tundra 793
09-01-2018, 04:52 AM
My point is that what you are referring to was just a story, nothing more. As someone said earlier, that one Viking probably took down couple of soldiers, maybe not even 4 . But over the time, it became 40.

I went through bloody war as a kid, even had to learn how to use weapons when I was 7. Every day there would be a story about a soldier who single handedly destroyed couple of tanks and killed dozen or more enemies. Next week, I would hear that it was actually 5 tanks and 2 dozen enemies. Month later, 10 tanks and 50 enemies. But hard reality was that guy just threw couple of grenades, damaged tracks of one tank and injured 1 or 2 soldiers.

So, story about Viking holding off bridge by himself is cute bedtime story. Nothing more.

Yeah that's, pretty much exactly my point... But that story is part of the Viking mythology, and lots of folk tend to appreciate it for it's cultural relevance. Champion simply used it for comedic effect, since this thread, my own buzzkill historical posts aside, was meant as a joke, to spur on fellow For Honor Vikings in game.
Unless you have something you want to get off your chest, there's really no need to belittle Champion's affection for the tales of his heritage.


If there is something more overrated than Vikings, it would be Samurai. Sub par weapons that were glorified in the minds of geeks but used mostly by Japanese warriors for sepukku (harikiri) since Japanese were mostly losing every single war. Centuries of shame. Lol

So far, you've really been generalizing complex historical ideas. Yes, Samurai weapons and armor were absolute crap compared to their European counterparts, but make no mistake; A Katana will slice someone in half if handled correctly.
I'm having a hard time distinguishing when you're being funny, or just not correctly informed about history.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-01-2018, 05:30 AM
In one part, I am joking off course. :) This topic is good for letting off some steam. On the other hand, some of the things I have said earlier, I really mean. It is just that I am using comedy to blow it out of proportion. English is my second language ( or actually third) so maybe not everyone gets the joke.

As for history, I am pretty knowledgeable ( not an expert)since I did get minor degree in history before moving to business degree. And no, I didn't study history in USA but in Europe when even in elementary school, we already learn in detail about almost every culture in almost every period. So, I am always ready for good discussion , even if we disagree.

Also, I have short but not completely irrelevant HEMA experience and while I do respect Katana as a weapon and even more as a work of art, I don't joke when I claim how European weapons were and are more superior. Although, to be fair, Katana wasn't really primary weapon used by Samurai but still....

PS, yeah, katana will slice someone in half if the person is naked or wearing rugs. Against armored opponent, Katana is no better than thick wooden stick or baseball bat.

ChampionRuby50g
09-01-2018, 06:01 AM
Yeah that's, pretty much exactly my point... But that story is part of the Viking mythology, and lots of folk tend to appreciate it for it's cultural relevance. Champion simply used it for comedic effect, since this thread, my own buzzkill historical posts aside, was meant as a joke, to spur on fellow For Honor Vikings in game.
Unless you have something you want to get off your chest, there's really no need to belittle Champion's affection for the tales of his heritage.



So far, you've really been generalizing complex historical ideas. Yes, Samurai weapons and armor were absolute crap compared to their European counterparts, but make no mistake; A Katana will slice someone in half if handled correctly.
I'm having a hard time distinguishing when you're being funny, or just not correctly informed about history.

Iím pleasantly suprised to see you remember Iíve got some Scandinavian blood in me. Not fully Scandinavian, but enough that I can be proud off my ancestory.

With that Stamford Bridge, yes I know tales get taller as time passes, and I was just repeating a number I had read. But either way, what that Viking warrior did is nonetheless impressive and commendable. Sacrificing himself so his brothers could regroup.

dinosaurlicker
09-01-2018, 06:07 AM
Stfu and go deliver some tofu :)

If there is something more overrated than Vikings, it would be Samurai. Sub par weapons that were glorified in the minds of geeks but used mostly by Japanese warriors for sepukku (harikiri) since Japanese were mostly losing every single war. Centuries of shame. Lol

Sadly you took that little piece of satire seriously and sound like a butthurt can of tuna fish.

Japanese swords were the best, it wasnít just ďglorified by geeks.Ē It was possible for a well made katana to cut through a standard longsword.

They didnít lose EVERY SINGLE WAR or they wouldnít br a country. Their island had few natural resources so they had to resort to imperialism to survive up until their defeat in WW2, then they traded for the most part (car manufacturers)

Gtfo of here you trashy tin can. Iím pretty sure you donít realize that at one point knights were getting analed by the danes (vikings) to the point that they were completely subject to buttrape by neckbeards

NHLGoldenKnight
09-01-2018, 06:30 AM
Actually, I didn't take your post seriously, that is way I made that joke about the tofu. :)

Katana is fine weapon but don't buy that cheap theory how it is so powerful it can split the longsword or bullet. Cheap Discovery shows. It was good weapon for isolated society such was Japan, but in terms of European weapons, it wouldn't measure good. Although, as far as I know, katana never was never weapon of choice when you would go to war.

As for Japanese who I have nothing but respect, they did fail in their plans to expend their empire beyond their islands. And they failed multiple times throughout the history. You can make of that whatever you want.

ChampionRuby50g
09-01-2018, 06:32 AM
Unit 731 from WW2 might change your opinion of respecting the Japanese in their expansion campaign.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-01-2018, 06:53 AM
I didn't say I respect their expansion campaign, quite opposite. I said I respect Japanese in general, have a few friends and I have never met more intelligent, calm and hones people. I can connect with them on cultural level.

But when it comes to military and wars, I do think they pretty much failed.

Hormly
09-01-2018, 11:50 AM
japanese swords were the best, it wasnít just ďglorified by geeks.Ē it was possible for a well made katana to cut through a standard longsword.


bahahahahahahaha

Tundra 793
09-01-2018, 03:29 PM
As for history, I am pretty knowledgeable ( not an expert)since I did get minor degree in history before moving to business degree. And no, I didn't study history in USA but in Europe when even in elementary school, we already learn in detail about almost every culture in almost every period. So, I am always ready for good discussion , even if we disagree

I also went to school in Europe, and I've no idea what school you went to, but most Europeans don't learn in detail about "almost every culture". I'm Danish, so our schools focus largely on Scandinavian history, and on the wider European history, and its branching history (Colonialism, Age of Sail etc.). Japan wasn't on the curriculum outside of World War II, my knowledge of that culture stems largely from personal interest.
Unless you were largely joking earlier, you've been pretty objectively mistaken on a lot of factors concerning Viking history. My posts on Page 2 highlight the specifics.



Also, I have short but not completely irrelevant HEMA experience and while I do respect Katana as a weapon and even more as a work of art, I don't joke when I claim how European weapons were and are more superior. Although, to be fair, Katana wasn't really primary weapon used by Samurai but still....

PS, yeah, katana will slice someone in half if the person is naked or wearing rugs. Against armored opponent, Katana is no better than thick wooden stick or baseball bat.

I don't know enough about HEMA to know how valuable your experience with it might be. A Katana is absolutely deadly, and could kill fighters in leather/wooden armor, which were far more common than anything else at the time.
Katanas were historically made of a metal the Japanese called Tamahagane, which due to the poor quality of iron in Japan, became considerably more fragile than European swords, but they could still be used in combat. But if handled incorrectly, the blades could snap or break.
These days, when Tamahagane is used the process and iron quality is much better, and typically lies around 1% to 1.5% of carbon content, but in the Samurai heyday, they could have carbon content as high as 4.5%.


I’m pleasantly suprised to see you remember I’ve got some Scandinavian blood in me. Not fully Scandinavian, but enough that I can be proud off my ancestory.

Of course I remember mate, we've had many long good talks on the subject.


Japanese swords were the best, it wasn’t just “glorified by geeks.” It was possible for a well made katana to cut through a standard longsword.

See my reply above, but to re-iterate; A historical Katana is very very far from the best weapon made. They were objectively riddled with flaws compared to European swords of the time.
It's absolutely possible to kill and fight with one, but one wrong move and you don't have a sword anymore.
Tarentino movies and pop culture glorify them as incredible weapons, but they really, really aren't. Blacksmithing fun fact; Pop culture often depicts the folding of the steel as the method which makes Katanas incredibly strong and deadly, but in reality, it's the only way to make those swords usable. You never have to fold good steel. Y'all can go watch Lord of the Rings making off documentaries, or Season 1 of Man at Arms and see how most modern swords are made, which is simply cutting the blade shape from steel sheets, and heat treating, tempering and sharpening them, and they're every bit as deadly as any 100-times folded Katana.

Arekonator
09-01-2018, 05:30 PM
Records from Mongol invasion of Japan specifically have plenty of notes how garbage average katana actually was. Commonly shattering on armor. Believing your normal run-of-the-mill could cut through european longswords is idiotic delusion at its finest.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-01-2018, 11:29 PM
Thundra, I went to school in ex Yugoslavia and then in Czech Republic ( Prague ) and even before minor degree in history, just during regular elementary school and high school, we studied almost everything except for South America/Australia and some Asian cultures which was just briefly introduced to us. But already in elementary school we studied in detail ancient Sumer, Mesopotamia, Akkad, Egypt, and few others that I am not sure how to spell in English. Than we went for a full year studying only Greeks and Romans, then Persians, Vikings , Franks, Visigoths ( if that is right word in English) all the way across dark ages into Renaissance and through all wars including Crusades, Napoleon wars, World War 1 and 2. As for Asian cultures, Japan was main focus with Mongols and just little bit about China and Korea. On top of that Latin was a must, although year later, I can barely remember most of it. Schools in exYugoslavia specifically, were and still are famous for forcing you to study a lot material about everything, except to prepare you for real life and useful skills. Charm of our socialist background lol

I am not authority on Vikings and I am not claiming to be one, but main reason behind why raids were not profitable were losses they had to go through after other European countries and cities became more aware of threat and organised themselves not just in military sense, but in birocratic as well. Centralized governments, fortified towns and trained and dedicated military units made impossible for Viking to raid with earlier success. Vikings did use their chance really good, basically terrorizing smaller kingdoms, local leaders, monasteries and unprotected villages, with few actual "real" battles. In any other more organized time period, even during Roman Empire, they probably would get crushed really quickly. Just my opinion.

I agree with Katana assessment. There are even evidence that suggest how Vikings had higher quality weapons compared to Japanese. Iron ore was of poor quality in Japan so that is reason of their blacksmithing technique, not because technique is superior my itself. Also, some historians would point out that Katana was harder than average European sword which would give advantage in slicing softer targets but if Katana would face European sword or armor, chipping would be much more pronounced issue and it would quickly lose its sharpness.

Tundra 793
09-02-2018, 08:36 PM
Schools in exYugoslavia specifically, were and still are famous for forcing you to study a lot material about everything, except to prepare you for real life and useful skills. Charm of our socialist background lol

I did not know that, thanks for enlightening me. Seems pretty excessive for an elementary school program.


I am not authority on Vikings and I am not claiming to be one, but main reason behind why raids were not profitable were losses they had to go through after other European countries and cities became more aware of threat and organised themselves not just in military sense, but in birocratic as well. Centralized governments, fortified towns and trained and dedicated military units made impossible for Viking to raid with earlier success. Vikings did use their chance really good, basically terrorizing smaller kingdoms, local leaders, monasteries and unprotected villages, with few actual "real" battles. In any other more organized time period, even during Roman Empire, they probably would get crushed really quickly. Just my opinion.

Yeah that was pretty much what I established a few pages ago, and you're right. But you have to keep in mind that the Vikings won major victories still, outside of small raids. They beseiged Paris twice, succeeding in the first, and even though they failed to breach the city walls on the second attempt in the late 800s, the Parisians still paid them a hefty sum of silver, and allowed them passage into Burgundy, where the raids continued.
You're being far too vague with how you define "small" kingdoms and how many battles you consider "few", or what even constitutes a "real" battle. The Viking invasion army of 865 besieged 4 seperate kingdoms, and ended up controlling all but 1. Surely you can't think the campaigns that lead to this conquest to be few, nor real battles?

I mean, almost every culture would be, as you call it, crushed, depending on who they fought. Sure, Vikings might be defeated by Romans, just as Romans might be defeated by Spartans, but that sort of argument is largely hypothetical and we'd never find a conclusive answer.
But like I've mentioned a few times; The Vikings fought and conquered entire Kingdoms during the Viking Age, not to mention the seiges on Spainish, French and Italian strongholds.


I agree with Katana assessment. There are even evidence that suggest how Vikings had higher quality weapons compared to Japanese. Iron ore was of poor quality in Japan so that is reason of their blacksmithing technique, not because technique is superior my itself. Also, some historians would point out that Katana was harder than average European sword which would give advantage in slicing softer targets but if Katana would face European sword or armor, chipping would be much more pronounced issue and it would quickly lose its sharpness.

Yep, that's basically what I was saying.
Vikings did have access, how is not exactly known, to a particular type of Frankish sword called an "Ulfberht", which had metallurgical compounds not seen before, or until many hundreds of years after the Viking age. Even by modern standards, the quality of those types of swords is remarkable.
It's my understanding of swordmaking, that historical Katanas would have been incredibly brittle (Brittle in this context does not refer to a swords durability, but merely the manner in which the sword would break), so if a Katana was subjected to a force that would damage it, it would shatter/break, not chip. All swords lose their edge after their first battle, that's just how swords work, the edge is the single most delicate part of the weapon and the most exposed.
But most people don't realize that even a blunt sword is still deadly. Even with a blunt blade, it can chop and stab through armor and human bodies.

Dry.Fish
09-02-2018, 10:01 PM
It's crazy if you think about it, the knowledge and craftsmanship people in the past had. Even today with modern technology everything is disposable junk.

Tundra 793
09-05-2018, 04:28 PM
It's crazy if you think about it, the knowledge and craftsmanship people in the past had. Even today with modern technology everything is disposable junk.

I think that has more to do with keeping costs reasonable. Just as an example, you can get a fully functional sword for $100 easily enough, but swords like a handcrafted Viking Ulfberht can cost $5000 or more, at least.
You're absolutely right that some ancient cultures every now and then just made something centuries ahead of its time, but sadly more often than not, this knowledge was lost only to be rediscovered much later.

It boggles the mind to imagine how they learned to make such things.

DefiledDragon
09-05-2018, 05:36 PM
I think that has more to do with keeping costs reasonable. Just as an example, you can get a fully functional sword for $100 easily enough, but swords like a handcrafted Viking Ulfberht can cost $5000 or more, at least.
You're absolutely right that some ancient cultures every now and then just made something centuries ahead of its time, but sadly more often than not, this knowledge was lost only to be rediscovered much later.

It boggles the mind to imagine how they learned to make such things.

Few things drive innovation like warfare. Just have a quick google at how many technological advancements that are part of every day life came from advancements in weapons and warfare. It's almost all of them.