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View Full Version : Why are we not talking about the characters that really need balancing



iadvisoryi
08-30-2018, 02:05 AM
Are we really not talking about how busted valk is, it's almost hard to list everything she gets off. Stamina drain hard reactable shield bash with a guaranteed light after, if you dash she can gb after, 50/50 on weather or not she's gonna light attack again or shield bash, 40+ dmg on a legsweep, unreactable top light, turtle capabilities. C'mon now.

dinosaurlicker
08-30-2018, 02:11 AM
The only thing that I find stupid is her 400ms light attacks. She doesnít need them

Think the sweep is 35 btw without gear score

Ozmoses_Nil
08-30-2018, 03:30 AM
The heavy stab is 35 after sweep. But she ain't that bad if you can dodge the sweep. The only real change I think it should cost them more stamina to use. Like if the spam it twice then they have 0 stamina but meh....

iadvisoryi
08-30-2018, 05:21 AM
Both of you really think her shield bash into a free light chain and her cancels into her shield bash aren't stupid? That's the most busted part about her.

dinosaurlicker
08-30-2018, 06:57 AM
Both of you really think her shield bash into a free light chain and her cancels into her shield bash aren't stupid? That's the most busted part about her.

You need to react/predict as you should need to. Itís not even a complete 50/50 so imo sheís balanced. Warden, Conq, Zerker, and Shaman need much more work than Valk

Charmzzz
08-30-2018, 07:28 AM
You need to react/predict as you should need to. It’s not even a complete 50/50 so imo she’s balanced. Warden, Conq, Zerker, and Shaman need much more work than Valk

There is no 50/50 in the game. You should really look up what a 50/50 is in Fighting Games... Throwing this around is just plain wrong.

dinosaurlicker
08-30-2018, 07:31 AM
There is no 50/50 in the game. You should really look up what a 50/50 is in Fighting Games... Throwing this around is just plain wrong.

(Lol) itís a known fact that there are 50/50s in this game. Wardenís shoulderbash is a perfect example, you have to guess wtf is going to happen

dinosaurlicker
08-30-2018, 07:32 AM
There is no 50/50 in the game. You should really look up what a 50/50 is in Fighting Games... Throwing this around is just plain wrong.

2 this isn’t a fighting game, it evolved from a pseudo fighter to a hack and slash

Arekonator
08-30-2018, 07:47 AM
it evolved from a pseudo fighter to a hack Sounds to me like you are projecting.

Charmzzz
08-30-2018, 07:51 AM
(Lol) it’s a known fact that there are 50/50s in this game. Warden’s shoulderbash is a perfect example, you have to guess wtf is going to happen

Evidence on this "known fact"?

A 50/50 would mean you have to predict what the other one does and act accordingly with only 2 options, then you have a 50% chance if your guess was right. That is NOT true at all.

- you can Light attack the Warden out of his charge
- you can roll away
- you can just wait if he commits to the SB or not if you are out of range for a Light and then dodge the SB

Really, just try it. Immediately Light attack when you see him charging. Or wait until he releases when you are too far away.

iadvisoryi
08-30-2018, 09:28 AM
Evidence on this "known fact"?

A 50/50 would mean you have to predict what the other one does and act accordingly with only 2 options, then you have a 50% chance if your guess was right. That is NOT true at all.

- you can Light attack the Warden out of his charge
- you can roll away
- you can just wait if he commits to the SB or not if you are out of range for a Light and then dodge the SB

Really, just try it. Immediately Light attack when you see him charging. Or wait until he releases when you are too far away.

A 50/50 is when there are two options for your opponent to take and you have to react accordingly. It's not about YOUR options. If that was the case the term 50/50 wouldn't exist. You think a warden is gonna put himself in a long range position with his sb? If he's long range that's not a 50/50. If hes close range he can cancel into a gb if he thinks your gonna dash or follow through and get a double light and a setup. Hence the phrase "guess right" . And we are talking about valk anyways. You have to guess between a cancel into sb or a follow through, obviously with a dash attack this would be easier for those characters, however not every character has that. And valk is an issue.

Zerk can armor through everything but his ONLY opening tool is his faints. If your not blocking the zone it's your fault. And his lights are JUST reactable on good ping. Parry a zerker you kill him. I think warden is fine but he shouldn't get armor on his charged sb, I agree with shaman and conq being stupid. Valk has way too much utility, free dmg and cancels. Everything she does is fast.

Armosias
08-30-2018, 10:09 AM
A 50/50 is when there are two options for your opponent to take and you have to react accordingly. It's not about YOUR options. If that was the case the term 50/50 wouldn't exist. You think a warden is gonna put himself in a long range position with his sb? If he's long range that's not a 50/50. If hes close range he can cancel into a gb if he thinks your gonna dash or follow through and get a double light and a setup. Hence the phrase "guess right" . And we are talking about valk anyways. You have to guess between a cancel into sb or a follow through, obviously with a dash attack this would be easier for those characters, however not every character has that. And valk is an issue.

Zerk can armor through everything but his ONLY opening tool is his faints. If your not blocking the zone it's your fault. And his lights are JUST reactable on good ping. Parry a zerker you kill him. I think warden is fine but he shouldn't get armor on his charged sb, I agree with shaman and conq being stupid. Valk has way too much utility, free dmg and cancels. Everything she does is fast.
In valk's case you just need to react well not guess as her SB comes out around the same time as a feint and is 500ms, fast but not unreactable. She truly is not so strong right now.
Her guaranteed damages also may be high, but unless you are wallsplattered that sweep is NEVER guaranteed and easily dodged. Her shoulder pin guarantees really high damages tho

Charmzzz
08-30-2018, 10:49 AM
A 50/50 is when there are two options for your opponent to take and you have to react accordingly. It's not about YOUR options. If that was the case the term 50/50 wouldn't exist. You think a warden is gonna put himself in a long range position with his sb? If he's long range that's not a 50/50. If hes close range he can cancel into a gb if he thinks your gonna dash or follow through and get a double light and a setup. Hence the phrase "guess right" . And we are talking about valk anyways. You have to guess between a cancel into sb or a follow through, obviously with a dash attack this would be easier for those characters, however not every character has that. And valk is an issue.

Zerk can armor through everything but his ONLY opening tool is his faints. If your not blocking the zone it's your fault. And his lights are JUST reactable on good ping. Parry a zerker you kill him. I think warden is fine but he shouldn't get armor on his charged sb, I agree with shaman and conq being stupid. Valk has way too much utility, free dmg and cancels. Everything she does is fast.

Nope, it is not a 50/50 if you have time to react accordingly. A real 50/50 is when you have 2 options and you have to PREDICT what the other one is going for and act preemptively. If you have enough time to react correctly, where is the pressure and forced choice?

And no, Warden SB was specifically mentioned in the post I was referring to, not Valk.

I know the options of Warden SB. And I know the counters. It is not a 50/50. The closest Moves being a 50/50 that are currently in the game are Conq SB/GB mixup and Highlander Kick/Grab mixup.

AzureSky.
08-30-2018, 03:36 PM
Nope, it is not a 50/50 if you have time to react accordingly. A real 50/50 is when you have 2 options and you have to PREDICT what the other one is going for and act preemptively. If you have enough time to react correctly, where is the pressure and forced choice?

And no, Warden SB was specifically mentioned in the post I was referring to, not Valk.

I know the options of Warden SB. And I know the counters. It is not a 50/50. The closest Moves being a 50/50 that are currently in the game are Conq SB/GB mixup and Highlander Kick/Grab mixup.

Actually warden doesn't have a 50/50, it's superior to that, he can cancel the shoulder bash in ANY stage (even later) into guard break so if you roll he just does a dash heavy, compared with highlander kick to grab that you can just roll with no consequences (since his recovery from the hand grab is very long and also takes a lot of stamina)

Tbh he needs a nerf, so he commits to the heavy charged shoulder bash, also you can't know on reaction if a shoulder bash is charged or not, you can predict it so it counts as a mixup.

Honestly they did a awful rework that centered all his kit around the shoulder bash instead of adding more tools to fight.

Armosias
08-30-2018, 04:30 PM
Actually warden doesn't have a 50/50, it's superior to that, he can cancel the shoulder bash in ANY stage (even later) into guard break so if you roll he just does a dash heavy, compared with highlander kick to grab that you can just roll with no consequences (since his recovery from the hand grab is very long and also takes a lot of stamina)

Tbh he needs a nerf, so he commits to the heavy charged shoulder bash, also you can't know on reaction if a shoulder bash is charged or not, you can predict it so it counts as a mixup.

Honestly they did a awful rework that centered all his kit around the shoulder bash instead of adding more tools to fight.
I agree to this. Being able to feint 100ms into the movement is hard to react. I believe Warden should have a slightly slower charging time even for the uncharged SB, and maybe being able to feint but not once you start moving.

DefiledDragon
08-30-2018, 05:41 PM
I agree to this. Being able to feint 100ms into the movement is hard to react. I believe Warden should have a slightly slower charging time even for the uncharged SB, and maybe being able to feint but not once you start moving.

The uncharged SB is eminently dodgeable. if it's slowed down any further it will be pointless.

dinosaurlicker
09-03-2018, 08:42 AM
Nope, it is not a 50/50 if you have time to react accordingly. A real 50/50 is when you have 2 options and you have to PREDICT what the other one is going for and act preemptively. If you have enough time to react correctly, where is the pressure and forced choice?

And no, Warden SB was specifically mentioned in the post I was referring to, not Valk.

I know the options of Warden SB. And I know the counters. It is not a 50/50. The closest Moves being a 50/50 that are currently in the game are Conq SB/GB mixup and Highlander Kick/Grab mixup.

Well sorry to break it to you, but if he chains into his SB you wonít have time to light attack before getting hit by an uncharged one. So yea you still have to guess

Blitzwarrior771
09-03-2018, 04:13 PM
lol u little ***kers circling around the real problem in this game . No is not light attack it is the infinite blocking spam that stall the game staring at each other all day . Thatís why they made sone heroís that can make breakthrough . Why are you complaining about balance use your block u bloke .

NHLGoldenKnight
09-03-2018, 07:07 PM
Only thing I hate about new Valk is spear sweep and heavy punish after that. In 1v1, it would be easier to focus on fighting her but in 4v4 it is a mess. I have opponent Valk sweep me down, I have my own teammates sweep me down. And if you fall down during group fight, you are most likely dead.

Also, I liked more controls for spear sweep earlier. It was less intuitive and required more focus. Push back and R2? Now it is a GB button, which everyone spams more easily.

tehemperorer
09-06-2018, 05:49 PM
Sure, nobody say a word about the Nobushi.

dinosaurlicker
09-07-2018, 08:10 PM
Can we all at least agree that nothing we say here will be taken into consideration by the dev team? Theyíve had a year and a half to balance this game and now itís worse than itís ever been. This game will clearly NEVER be even close to balanced. So letís stop arguing about balance and enjoy cosmetics.

TSCDescon
09-07-2018, 10:38 PM
Yeah.

Roman told everyone to ďgit gudĒ from last weeks WD.