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View Full Version : Why does it take so long to balance classes?



David_gorda
08-29-2018, 11:34 AM
Devs Know for example that shugoki is in a really bad state. It shouldnt take several months to balance classes. If i was a shugoki Main i would have deleted this Game long time ago. Its unaccatable that it takes so long to balance classes in this game. Ubisoft really need to get their **** together and prioritize balancing the Game.

bannex19
08-29-2018, 11:54 AM
Because they all weigh differently and then you throw some armor on them, not to mention male or female and good luck!

Armosias
08-29-2018, 12:25 PM
I truly wonder where you guys get your data because somehow the last state of balance wasn't showing Shugoki as the "OHMAGAD so weak please up can't play" in duels, and as true as he is a really bad state in 4v4 modes he still was performing better than Orochi and Gladiator

Tyrjo
08-29-2018, 04:42 PM
I truly wonder where you guys get your data because somehow the last state of balance wasn't showing Shugoki as the "OHMAGAD so weak please up can't play" in duels, and as true as he is a really bad state in 4v4 modes he still was performing better than Orochi and Gladiator

Yep, the last State of Balance for 1vs1 had Shugoki somewhere in the middle. In the bottom we had Orochi, Gladiator, Nobushi, Warlord and Valkyrie. Orochi and Valkyrie aren't in the bottom any longer of course. Warden isn't in the middle of the pack either. Peacekeeper is probably a few notches down.

http://i63.tinypic.com/34qlnja.jpg

David_gorda
08-29-2018, 04:46 PM
Yep, the last State of Balance for 1vs1 had Shugoki somewhere in the middle. In the bottom we had Orochi, Gladiator, Nobushi, Warlord and Valkyrie. Orochi and Valkyrie aren't in the bottom any longer of course. Warden isn't in the middle of the pack either. Peacekeeper is probably a few notches down.

http://i63.tinypic.com/34qlnja.jpg thats top 2.5% which most People not belong to or Will ever play against. Do you think an average player on console play shugoki have a chance against a ligjtspamming orochi?

Roseguard_Cpt
08-29-2018, 06:26 PM
I'm painfully average and can reliably block Orochi, and have many other low-rep friends who can do it too. Even a rep 6 overall who can parry the lights.

David_gorda
08-29-2018, 06:32 PM
I'm painfully average and can reliably block Orochi, and have many other low-rep friends who can do it too. Even a rep 6 overall who can parry the lights.
You are not average if you can block 400ms lights on console. But i presume you are playing on PC. Also rep has nothing to do with reactions, i cant block 400ms lights on console and i am rep 150+ and i can be rep 2000 and still not to react to it. Much easier to react to 400ms lights for PC players but for console players they are Broken.

Tyrjo
08-29-2018, 06:35 PM
thats top 2.5% which most People not belong to or Will ever play against. Do you think an average player on console play shugoki have a chance against a ligjtspamming orochi?

No, but that is only taked into second account when the devs are balancing to make sure nothing isn't well out of the standard deviation. They have said they balance around the top 2.5% because these players are believed to know how each hero is played as and against.

Tyrjo
08-29-2018, 06:39 PM
You are not average if you can block 400ms lights on console. But i presume you are playing on PC. Also rep has nothing to do with reactions, i cant block 400ms lights on console and i am rep 150+ and i can be rep 2000 and still not to react to it. Much easier to react to 400ms lights for PC players but for console players they are Broken.

It is indeed harder to react to on console. I played on PS4 before (I recognize your name btw, have played with and against you several times :)) I switched to PC. The problem lies mainly within the Dual Shock's blue tooth and TV generally having slower panels, and not so much in the 30FPS console has.

David_gorda
08-29-2018, 06:42 PM
It is indeed harder to react to on console. I played on PS4 before (I recognize your name btw, have played with and against you several times :)) I switched to PC. The problem lies mainly within the Dual Shock's blue tooth and TV generally having slower panels, and not so much in the 30FPS console has.
Thx for confirm its harder to react on console. Sorry for owning you on Playstation/or you are welcome for me carrying you in dominion ;)

Charmzzz
08-29-2018, 06:43 PM
God not this again. Plenty of Console Players CAN block those Lights. We had this already, use good Monitor and wired Connections - profit...

Roseguard_Cpt
08-29-2018, 06:44 PM
I play on PS4 first and PC second (got it 4 days ago, roughly), while it's easier on PC undeniably, it is still not challenging on PS4 if you simply look at the screen and focus for a minute or two. I play pretty casually and I'll admit, I have to sit up a bit when Orochi comes at me. I don't mean to sound rude, but I live by the simple moto of
"If it's not because of ping, just practice", and I feel that may apply here.

Tyrjo
08-29-2018, 06:45 PM
Thx for confirm its harder to react on console. Sorry for owning you on Playstation/or you are welcome for me carrying you in dominion ;)

I can't go back to PS4 unfortunately after having played it on a PC. My eyes hurt like hell after having gotten used to For Honor in 165Hz. ;) I recommend you try it out, or buy a good gaming PC. ;)

David_gorda
08-29-2018, 06:51 PM
I can't go back to PS4 unfortunately after having played it on a PC. My eyes hurt like hell after having gotten used to For Honor in 165Hz. ;) I recommend you try it out, or buy a good gaming PC. ;)
Nah i am pretty much Done with for honor but i watch some PC dudes stream and it looks more fun on PC and i understand why the devs tried to change the defensive meta because PC looks alot slower. I am going to play kingdome come tomorrow and have a break from for honor lol :D

TSCDescon
08-29-2018, 06:57 PM
They have said they balance around the top 2.5% because these players are believed to know how each hero is played as and against.

Top 2.5%... thats like only 3 players for each character... maybe a better idea will be, using top 50 players or 100 players. not PERCENTAGE and i can guarantee them, those winrates will change ALOT.

Lord_Cherubi
08-30-2018, 02:07 AM
People really have to stop worshiping those stat sheets... i understand they give valuable info but you cant form your opinion based ONLY on them.

Massive health pool, demonic damage, crazy ledging potential and overall just a bullying guard- type of playstyle, those are the reasons he's actually VERY viable in 4v4.

Now in duels, you absolutely can win and because of his playstyle, most of the time you are the one in charge in terms of combat tempo. But the problem is that he has literally 0 options available, you're forced to play type of way that gets boring quickly for everyone involved. It's SUPER difficult to be unpredictable when your move set is as tiny as his is.

Merlox123
08-30-2018, 03:25 AM
I left for a year+ and come back to a game that still is horribly balanced. lol

voiddp
08-30-2018, 07:49 AM
Balancing is slow because devs can't compile data even for first 2.5% fast enough. I mean people still trowing around season 5 data in season 7...
Why do you think devs have it so much faster for themselves lol

RexXZ347
08-30-2018, 11:20 AM
If only the devs play their own game they will know who to buff and who to nerf. It's their loss for not balancing the game immediately. Reworks takes months, i mean many months. And only 2 were reworked. Instead of reworking why not buff old characters. Play the game. Period. Balance. The problem with this is that the devs are incompetent in balancing this game. For example, to balance a conqueror remove his dodge to shield bash. Done. Profit. To balance a warden make his shoulder bash consume 60% of his stamina but it can follow up a heavy. Done. Profit. Idk what the devs are doing. Seriously i think they just balance the game when they whant it.

Armosias
08-30-2018, 11:28 AM
If only the devs play their own game they will know who to buff and who to nerf. It's their loss for not balancing the game immediately. Reworks takes months, i mean many months. And only 2 were reworked. Instead of reworking why not buff old characters. Play the game. Period. Balance. The problem with this is that the devs are incompetent in balancing this game. For example, to balance a conqueror remove his dodge to shield bash. Done. Profit. To balance a warden make his shoulder bash consume 60% of his stamina but it can follow up a heavy. Done. Profit. Idk what the devs are doing. Seriously i think they just balance the game when they whant it.
This is how you POORLY balance a game. Period.

DefiledDragon
08-30-2018, 11:47 AM
This is how you POORLY balance a game. Period.

That must be exactly what they're doing then I guess.

Armosias
08-30-2018, 12:51 PM
That must be exactly what they're doing then I guess.
Hopefully for us they're not doing this(Following every forum user's bias balance "solution"). Else Cent would be a minion, we'd have hyperarmored gb for heavies and Valkyrie would still be the worst hero in FH. Yes far behind the so low Shugoki and his 51% duel winrate

RexXZ347
08-30-2018, 02:50 PM
This is how you POORLY balance a game. Period.

And how would you SMARTLY balance the game then? Would you suggest one than showing someone how bad their decision is and how good you are?

voiddp
08-30-2018, 02:58 PM
Smartly balancing games requires small changes to be made often for all character. And analyzing data for changes, and after changes.

Like if you see that some move is overused in statisctics. You nerf it lets say by 50ms of activation time or something small like this. And watch at results. And you do that for all characters. The faster the changes the smaller they have to be to not brake anything.
Not like if its op then just disables this\add that.. That's not balancing its the same reworking that devs do. Which mostly leads to bigger unbalancing because of very big one time changes.

Armosias
08-30-2018, 03:03 PM
Smartly balancing games requires small changes to be made often for all character. And analyzing data for changes, and after changes.

Like if you see that some move is overused in statisctics. You nerf it lets say by 50ms of activation time or something small like this. And watch at results. And you do that for all characters. The faster the changes the smaller they have to be to not brake anything.
Not like if its op then just disables this\add that.. That's not balancing its the same reworking that devs do. Which mostly leads to bigger unbalancing because of very big one time changes.
This. So much truth...

iAurelia
08-30-2018, 06:15 PM
Devs Know for example that shugoki is in a really bad state. It shouldnt take several months to balance classes. If i was a shugoki Main i would have deleted this Game long time ago. Its unaccatable that it takes so long to balance classes in this game. Ubisoft really need to get their **** together and prioritize balancing the Game.

I don't know, but their priority should be a fckin shaman warden and gladiator

SaschoS
08-30-2018, 07:44 PM
Um they f up with balance as soon they started to put new champs in game

TSCDescon
08-30-2018, 09:19 PM
Um they f up with balance as soon they started to put new champs in game

Oh yeah, definitely.

KotoKuraken
08-31-2018, 12:29 AM
Top 2.5%... thats like only 3 players for each character... maybe a better idea will be, using top 50 players or 100 players. not PERCENTAGE and i can guarantee them, those winrates will change ALOT.

There's actually thousands of players within 2.5%. Heck, there's thousands in 1% alone