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View Full Version : 4 years later ... and this is almost comical..



Bearcat99
11-20-2011, 03:16 PM
So is that it...? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4861079006/p/1)

The end of the world as {some} know it .. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4861079006/p/1)

Buying stock .. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1531021695?r=1071021695#1071021695)

The nightmare is coming true.. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2131028006/p/1)

Sillius_Sodus
11-20-2011, 04:34 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WTE_Galway
11-20-2011, 04:39 PM
meh ... its the main reason I stayed with offline play even when I had the internet reconnected

But I am sure not too many people lost any sleep over my absence from the HL airquake point ***** fests http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Treetop64
11-20-2011, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
meh ... its the main reason I stayed with offline play even when I had the internet reconnected

But I am sure not too many people lost any sleep over my absence from the HL airquake point ***** fests http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

A shared sentiment.

Though there is another, disciplined element of online play, that of the squad-based online missions (DangerDogz, etc.).

AndyJWest
11-20-2011, 07:13 PM
Treetop, did you just use the words 'DangerDogz' and 'disciplined' in the same sentence? Some mistake surely, if their effort on the Ubizoo Saturday coops are anything to go by... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Just kidding, Dogz...

Back to the subject of the sky falling in, it doesn't seem to have happened, at least to the extent predicted, and I suspect that the 'cheaters' have probably mostly moved elsewhere - there are plenty of other good reasons for playing online with people you know and trust though.

Luno13
11-20-2011, 07:33 PM
I guess we're just lucky. The Microsoft Combat sims were quite open framework and the online community died fairly rapidly because of cheating, from what I understand.

Still, Il-2 isn't cheater-free. We all remember that UFO La-5 video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k328rypQo9Y

Or This guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...yer_detailpage#t=58s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9Pr_VRrzw&feature=player_detailpage#t=58s)

VW-IceFire
11-20-2011, 09:20 PM
We keep the Battle-fields (formerly UK-1, UK-2, and UK-3) servers fairly clear of cheaters but they still pop up every so often. We have enough fantastic regulars that we don't have to worry too much...

I did spot a guy who had magic .50cals that would make anything explode in a couple of hits. They do seem to be few and far between.

Luno13
11-20-2011, 09:41 PM
The problem is when it's more subtle. In any case, this sort of thing hasn't kept me from going online.

DD_crash
11-21-2011, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Treetop, did you just use the words 'DangerDogz' and 'disciplined' in the same sentence? Some mistake surely, if their effort on the Ubizoo Saturday coops are anything to go by... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Just kidding, Dogz...

You got that right Andy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Comments like "did you bring bombs?" "why, do we need to?" "did you read the brief?" "the WHAT!?"
are heard every mission. Wouldnt be as good if they weren't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bearcat99
11-21-2011, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Luno13:
I guess we're just lucky. The Microsoft Combat sims were quite open framework and the online community died fairly rapidly because of cheating, from what I understand.

Still, Il-2 isn't cheater-free. We all remember that UFO La-5 video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k328rypQo9Y

Or This guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...yer_detailpage#t=58s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9Pr_VRrzw&feature=player_detailpage#t=58s)

Yeah and that's basically my point.. Not that we didn't/don't have issues with the whole thing.. but the wholesale crash and demise of the sim and the ensuing hack fest just never happened that way.. as many. including yours truly feared it would. I think that is largely because our general population was older and the sim being more challenging in it's own right had a lot to do with that..

Even 4 years later you can still get online in this now 10+ year old sim.. and have a good time.. at least I can. My biggest problem is finding the time to fly online..

waffen-79
11-29-2011, 12:04 PM
I ought to be honest with you guys

I did use mod packs from AAA 1.2 to UP 2.0 and also HSFX 4 and SAS Mod ACT

Being UP 3.0 RC3 the standard in Dogfight servers and Online Wars/Competitions (i.e ghost skies)

But I don't like the path UP 3.0 RC3 took..see I've been recording from time to time tracks of my online victories in servers that now have ceased to exist (~2007 since ver 4.07m)

Why? well its a thing I like to do..anyway problem with UP 3.0 RC3 is that it can't playback older tracks as it should I even went and ask in their forums and the answer was among the lines of lol, and SO MUCH have change that its crazy to thing it would playback older tracks..

Point is, why are you guys changing that its breaking the core engine..but all in all flying online, Its been a Blast!

thefruitbat
11-29-2011, 02:54 PM
@waffen-79

the track problem is to do with MDS.

you can play any stock ntrks from all previous il2 versions on a clean 4.09 install.

any version of the game that had a version of zuti enabled, whether stock ie 4.10, or modded, ie UP2.01 UP3.XXX when the track was recored, can only be watched back on the same version as made.

I have a UP2.01 install, just for watching bloody tracks from DangerDog stuff.

Feathered_IV
11-30-2011, 12:45 AM
Phew. Glad I didn't come off too badly, looking back on all that. Still feel a bit miffed towards the chap who offered to come round to my house and beat me up. Especially now when I see him periodically at SAS, asking for more P-47 variants.

Some people really sold their souls over the mods. Thumping their chests swearing mighty oaths that they were so steadfast and honorable they'd... "Oh lookie lookie, my favorite aircraft/map/feature!". Then cast their morals aside for the sake of a video game. Must suck to be bought so cheaply.

LEBillfish
11-30-2011, 12:06 PM
ehhh....

The mods added a lot of great things, everyone knew they would, yet as also predicted they brought a lot of crap and even a little bad as well.

The crap is pretty obvious, stuff well below the standards the sime had set. Don't get me wrong, effort when compared to nothing should never be scorned, however half assed just wanting X yet not considering Y or Z really pulled the standard down.......Granted, many mods are well worth their salt, yet there are those....

Doesn't matter whether it is which mod pack, which group of mods, etc. etc.....For all the screaming about how non-modders were fracturing up the community, the various mod factions and versions of the moment did more then their share.

How'd the "we will never touch FM's/DM's/Weapons" work out?

There are sadly cheaters, more then you realize. However who in the middle of a dogfight lets themselves get shot down so they can start recording a clip? In kind many little cheats are purely user side, you can never see them the proof only coming when they talk about it, yet then it's hear-say. Lastly there are those little cheats and hedges...Slightly better FM/DM, slightly better weapon, slightly better view, etc.. A "smart" cheater doesn't make it so obvious, and when called on something without empirical data, well then it's considered just skills......Yet I've run into some, even whole groups/squadrons that one day couldn't do X, and the very next suddenly have "skills" up the ying-yang. Finally you'd be surprised at how many "honest" players when a new mod is developed yet not relased have few qualms about using it even though it grants them an advantage as it is "correct".

Did anyone ever consider the "I don't fly online so mods for everyone is okay" not beyond selfish? My gawd, it was amazing how many never flew online that you always saw online that didn't care what affected ONLY online as "they, the only person who mattered" supposedly just flew offline.

Bogged down PC's (it's one thing to buy a game too heavy yet to be pushed out is another).....and the excuse of "screw you if you're "too cheap" to keep up" was just sad.

Everyone on the same page, equal footing was lost immediately. Finally after pushing with the mod packs some of that was helped, yet it still exists.

There have been a number of GREAT mods made, fantastic mods that really changed the sim for the better..............Yet just because those still flying online ultimately had to choose to fly modded or quit to keep flying, or chose to fly modded for the benefits, doesn't mean the predicted problems didn't come.

It just means that folks had to either sacrifice this (security and a level playing field) for that, or quit flying with the community at large........Yes, you can fly this mod pack or that, even unmodded easily thanks to the modders.......Yet, try filling a coop with players when some want this while others want that and refuse to budge.

In the end just like all things it is a double edged sword.....and everyone got cut in one way or another.

K2

waffen-79
11-30-2011, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
I have a UP2.01 install, just for watching bloody tracks from DangerDog stuff.

I hear ya mate, I have a fully patched 4.10.1 with SAS MODACT which adds special effects, some sounds and the hability to mod textures as in better cockpits, anyway this version runs ALL my tracks except for the ones of the Spits vs 109 mod because of what you said, especial mods and all

and I also have the UP 3 RC4 version wich I use to fly with my mates and this version messes up all my tracks even the stock legacy ones recorded with 4.07 onwards..

..sigh I wish everything could go as smooth as the AAA and UP2 days

shotdownski
11-30-2011, 04:46 PM
"...or quit flying with the community at large........Yes, you can fly this mod pack or that, even unmodded easily thanks to the modders.......Yet, try filling a coop with players when some want this while others want that and refuse to budge.

In the end just like all things it is a double edged sword.....and everyone got cut in one way or another."

Bulls ear, Catnip! (Remember that old Miller Lite commercial?)

I gave up flying online completely because I couldn't (choose not to?) make sense of and keep up with all the different mod options (UP vs. HSFX, MDS, JGSE, switchers, etc, etc.) and could no longer join servers or coops at will. Just too damn complicated. Even quit flying with my squad (AKA) because too much time and effort keeping things updated. Real shame too because offline just doesn't offer the adrenalin rush you get flying against a human. Some great mods out there, but community certainly fractured beyond repair.

Cheers,

shotdownski (AKA_Knutsac)

Bearcat99
11-30-2011, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
In the end just like all things it is a double edged sword.....and everyone got cut in one way or another.
K2

Yes this is true .. but the consequences that many of us feared never materialized in the manner in which we feared they would.. not only that .. There are 200+ on HL right now.. granted that is a far cry from the 2k that we used to see.. but how many 10 year old sims do you know that can boast 200 regularly? Some nights much higher.. ? I don't know of any .. and that's my point. Be it all as it may very well be .. in the end were it not for mods, especially in light of the developer support we have gotten over the past 6 years .. this sim would not be as active as it is.

Woke_Up_Dead
12-01-2011, 03:45 PM
I gave up flying online completely because I couldn't (choose not to?) make sense of and keep up with all the different mod options (UP vs. HSFX, MDS, JGSE, switchers, etc, etc.) and could no longer join servers or coops at will. Just too damn complicated. Even quit flying with my squad (AKA) because too much time and effort keeping things updated.

That's the one for me. I'm still flying online and with my squad, but only on servers that are 4.101 stock. If I have free time I want to spend it playing, not with tweaking software.

joeap
12-06-2011, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Phew. Glad I didn't come off too badly, looking back on all that. Still feel a bit miffed towards the chap who offered to come round to my house and beat me up. Especially now when I see him periodically at SAS, asking for more P-47 variants.

Some people really sold their souls over the mods. Thumping their chests swearing mighty oaths that they were so steadfast and honorable they'd... "Oh lookie lookie, my favorite aircraft/map/feature!". Then cast their morals aside for the sake of a video game. Must suck to be bought so cheaply.

No kidding right?

Whatever, I wanted to post some other threads like Bearcat did on the issue that I had bookmarked but they have vanished now.

I never had an issue with folks like you who genuinely wanted to improve, fix and expand the game but the others who jumped ship really left a bad taste in my mouth.

I do think LEBillfish made a very sensible and balanced post, the fact is the community was fractured and it will never go back to how it was before. The fact is FM/DMs/weapons were touched and there was always a certain fraction who felt they were on a mission to correct Oleg's mistakes and save history or some such thing. The fact is there were always powerful voices in the community that wanted to force acceptance of mods.

You may all not believe me but I have never tried the "unofficial" mods and have no interest in doing so. Yes I am aware we all have benefited from some of the better modders and I have used Team Daidalos' patches which owe a lot to the modding community. However, due to the fracturing above, my online time came to an end, I don't like that now one almost must use mods to fly online-even the weekly ubi online meet requires them-so goodbye to all that then. Anyhow that's my take on it.

Bearcat99
12-20-2011, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Some people really sold their souls over the mods. Thumping their chests swearing mighty oaths that they were so steadfast and honorable they'd... "Oh lookie lookie, my favorite aircraft/map/feature!". Then cast their morals aside for the sake of a video game. Must suck to be bought so cheaply.

Really ...? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Sold their souls? Cast morals aside? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Get over it .. in the bigger picture it was NEVER THAT IMPORTANT. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
ehhh....
The mods added a lot of great things, everyone knew they would, yet as also predicted they brought a lot of crap and even a little bad as well.
The crap is pretty obvious, stuff well below the standards the sime had set. Don't get me wrong, effort when compared to nothing should never be scorned, however half assed just wanting X yet not considering Y or Z really pulled the standard down.......Granted, many mods are well worth their salt, yet there are those....
Doesn't matter whether it is which mod pack, which group of mods, etc. etc.....For all the screaming about how non-modders were fracturing up the community, the various mod factions and versions of the moment did more then their share.
How'd the "we will never touch FM's/DM's/Weapons" work out?
There are sadly cheaters, more then you realize. However who in the middle of a dogfight lets themselves get shot down so they can start recording a clip? In kind many little cheats are purely user side, you can never see them the proof only coming when they talk about it, yet then it's hear-say. Lastly there are those little cheats and hedges...Slightly better FM/DM, slightly better weapon, slightly better view, etc.. A "smart" cheater doesn't make it so obvious, and when called on something without empirical data, well then it's considered just skills......Yet I've run into some, even whole groups/squadrons that one day couldn't do X, and the very next suddenly have "skills" up the ying-yang. Finally you'd be surprised at how many "honest" players when a new mod is developed yet not relased have few qualms about using it even though it grants them an advantage as it is "correct".
Did anyone ever consider the "I don't fly online so mods for everyone is okay" not beyond selfish? My gawd, it was amazing how many never flew online that you always saw online that didn't care what affected ONLY online as "they, the only person who mattered" supposedly just flew offline.
Bogged down PC's (it's one thing to buy a game too heavy yet to be pushed out is another).....and the excuse of "screw you if you're "too cheap" to keep up" was just sad.
Everyone on the same page, equal footing was lost immediately. Finally after pushing with the mod packs some of that was helped, yet it still exists.
There have been a number of GREAT mods made, fantastic mods that really changed the sim for the better..............Yet just because those still flying online ultimately had to choose to fly modded or quit to keep flying, or chose to fly modded for the benefits, doesn't mean the predicted problems didn't come.
It just means that folks had to either sacrifice this (security and a level playing field) for that, or quit flying with the community at large........Yes, you can fly this mod pack or that, even unmodded easily thanks to the modders.......Yet, try filling a coop with players when some want this while others want that and refuse to budge.
In the end just like all things it is a double edged sword.....and everyone got cut in one way or another.
K2

All that being as it may very well be .. the bottom line is that once the sim was cracked .. and nobody in this thread had anything to do with that .... the world as we knew it in relation to this sim had changed forever.. and it could have gone far far worse than it did.. Considering:

A)The end of the sim as so many predicted .. that did not come.
B)The widespread rampant cheating and hack fest free for all that so many expected and that came with every other modded sim that I know of, and that also did not come.
and C)Not only is the sim still around but it is still being upgraded by some of the same people who were at the forefront when all this was new and hazy....

I'd say we all came out pretty d@mn well. Yes we will never see the routine nights of 4 digit occupation on HL again .. not in this sim .. and yes ... many parts of the community have left .. or fractured into their own camps and the uncertainty that comes with mods is present to a degree... but none of us had anything to do with that, in fact the fact that the sim is still here and in the shape it is in is a testament to not only the sim's strength as product but our character as a community. Never used mods? Good I'm happy for you if that's what you want to do. The fact that we have options is great to me ... I can only speak for myself... not even for my squad, with no more than a nod of confidence because like K2 said.. once the genie was out regardless to "squad policy" or "oaths taken" in the end it was all up to folks.. but the point of this whole thread .. and I stayed away from it for a while for a reason .. was to not curse the dark .. but embrace the light .. and there is light ... I can still get on HL and have a good time.. almost 10 years after the fact. Is it what it used to be? No .. but what is.... Things could be better .. as they can anywhere .. but we are still here.. some of us are flying this sim and still enjoying it. Those of us who chose to not do so .. for whatever reason ... perhaps could consider returning to the fold, since many who have left bemoan the "demise" of the sim .. but they aren't here to do anything to add life to it.

Bearcat99
12-20-2011, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Some people really sold their souls over the mods. Thumping their chests swearing mighty oaths that they were so steadfast and honorable they'd... "Oh lookie lookie, my favorite aircraft/map/feature!". Then cast their morals aside for the sake of a video game. Must suck to be bought so cheaply.

Really ...? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Sold their souls? Cast morals aside? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Get over it .. in the bigger picture it was NEVER THAT IMPORTANT. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
ehhh....
The mods added a lot of great things, everyone knew they would, yet as also predicted they brought a lot of crap and even a little bad as well.
The crap is pretty obvious, stuff well below the standards the sime had set. Don't get me wrong, effort when compared to nothing should never be scorned, however half assed just wanting X yet not considering Y or Z really pulled the standard down.......Granted, many mods are well worth their salt, yet there are those....
Doesn't matter whether it is which mod pack, which group of mods, etc. etc.....For all the screaming about how non-modders were fracturing up the community, the various mod factions and versions of the moment did more then their share.
How'd the "we will never touch FM's/DM's/Weapons" work out?
There are sadly cheaters, more then you realize. However who in the middle of a dogfight lets themselves get shot down so they can start recording a clip? In kind many little cheats are purely user side, you can never see them the proof only coming when they talk about it, yet then it's hear-say. Lastly there are those little cheats and hedges...Slightly better FM/DM, slightly better weapon, slightly better view, etc.. A "smart" cheater doesn't make it so obvious, and when called on something without empirical data, well then it's considered just skills......Yet I've run into some, even whole groups/squadrons that one day couldn't do X, and the very next suddenly have "skills" up the ying-yang. Finally you'd be surprised at how many "honest" players when a new mod is developed yet not relased have few qualms about using it even though it grants them an advantage as it is "correct".
Did anyone ever consider the "I don't fly online so mods for everyone is okay" not beyond selfish? My gawd, it was amazing how many never flew online that you always saw online that didn't care what affected ONLY online as "they, the only person who mattered" supposedly just flew offline.
Bogged down PC's (it's one thing to buy a game too heavy yet to be pushed out is another).....and the excuse of "screw you if you're "too cheap" to keep up" was just sad.
Everyone on the same page, equal footing was lost immediately. Finally after pushing with the mod packs some of that was helped, yet it still exists.
There have been a number of GREAT mods made, fantastic mods that really changed the sim for the better..............Yet just because those still flying online ultimately had to choose to fly modded or quit to keep flying, or chose to fly modded for the benefits, doesn't mean the predicted problems didn't come.
It just means that folks had to either sacrifice this (security and a level playing field) for that, or quit flying with the community at large........Yes, you can fly this mod pack or that, even unmodded easily thanks to the modders.......Yet, try filling a coop with players when some want this while others want that and refuse to budge.
In the end just like all things it is a double edged sword.....and everyone got cut in one way or another.
K2

All that being as it may very well be .. the bottom line is that once the sim was cracked .. and nobody in this thread had anything to do with that .... the world as we knew it in relation to this sim had changed forever.. and it could have gone far far worse than it did.. Considering:

A)The end of the sim as so many predicted .. that did not come.
B)The widespread rampant cheating and hack fest free for all that so many expected and that came with every other modded sim that I know of, and that also did not come to the same degree.
and C)Not only is the sim still around but it is still being upgraded by some of the same people who were at the forefront when all this was new and hazy....

I'd say we all came out pretty d@mn well. Yes we will never see the routine nights of 4 digit occupation on HL again .. not in this sim .. and yes ... many parts of the community have left .. or fractured into their own camps and the uncertainty that comes with mods is present to a degree... but none of us had anything to do with that, in fact the fact that the sim is still here and in the shape it is in is a testament to not only the sim's strength as product but our character as a community. Never used mods? Good I'm happy for you if that's what you want to do. The fact that we have options is great to me ... I can only speak for myself... not even for my squad, with no more than a nod of confidence because like K2 said.. once the genie was out regardless to "squad policy" or "oaths taken" in the end it was all up to folks.. but the point of this whole thread .. and I stayed away from it for a while for a reason .. was to not curse the dark .. but embrace the light .. and there is light ... I can still get on HL and have a good time.. almost 10 years after the fact. Is it what it used to be? No .. but what is.... Things could be better .. as they can anywhere .. but we are still here.. some of us are flying this sim and still enjoying it. Those of us who chose to not do so .. for whatever reason ... perhaps could consider returning to the fold, since many who have left bemoan the "demise" of the sim .. but they aren't here to do anything to add life to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WTE_Galway
12-20-2011, 10:16 PM
I think it should be added that mods are and have always been more an issue for online players.

I have never bothered with mods. My old squad WTE apparently uses mod packs and most people I know online seem to use them however every Il2 player that I know personally in real life is an offline player and as far as I know none other than myself have ever visited any forums or even heard of mods.

I suspect 90% of copies of IL2 sold are played rarely and when they are played at all they are played entirely offline without any mods.

Bearcat99
12-21-2011, 06:02 AM
I agree and truth be told .. as much as I like the mods if we could go back I would prefer that .. but I can't help but wonder a few things .. like:

Had the sim never been hacked would it have fallen off even more by now?

What role did the mods play if any in the lack of support towards the end of 1Cs direct hand in the updating process?

Since the only official source of upgrades we have now is TD, and since TD is directly linked to the mod community, wold we even be getting support for the sim still or would we be at 4.08 and that's that?

All of the above in light of the way that CoD was released.. because all of us imagined that we would have
A)Had CoD (BoB) sooner than we got it.
B)That it would have been a much smoother release than it was.
C)That it would have been a much more transitional than it has been.
D)That Oleg would still be directly involved in both products.. which of course (someone please correct me if I am wrong) he is not anymore.



I think that all things considered .... it is a decent compromise, what has happened to IL2. There are certain servers that I do not fly in but I could easily fly in any server. The fact that a few mod communities have gone all out in moving away from being as compatible with whatever official release there is and going on their own was an inevitable end consistent with the exact same attitude that hacked the sim in the first place, but the fact that there are other mod communities that, even though they crossed the FM/WEPS/DM lines mentioned above, have still tried to provide as compatible an alternative to whatever the official team was doing is a great thing. I also think that the fact that TD is incorporating many of the mod features into official patches also says a lot .. I just wish they were a little closer together .. but I'll take what I can get since these guys are doing all this great work for free.