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RVSage
08-24-2018, 05:27 AM
I waited till Gamescom , to see what they had to show. Here is my thoughts about the state of AC Franchise

First things first , Glad we have no AC game next year. That being said, I am not on board with Odyssey as an AC game. and here is why

1. Odyssey on it's own look like a fantastic game, but I feel the AC lore i.e First Civilization/ Layla arc is stuffed in just to make it AC brand worthy. This is supported by the fact only Kassandra is cannon, not Alexios. If they want to have character choices, they can give us two different characters with over lapping narratives.

2. Despite being different from Origins in quite a few ways, heavy re-use is undeniable, the world baring the sea and some snow regions looks like expanded Alexandria, Cyrene. Ikarus the eagle, seems just to be there for an Ariel drone role. Camps (Personally the most boring parts of Origins) have not changed.

3. I am simply unable to invest in the characters, I loved Bayek, but now he is unlikely to return, I was invested in the Juno arc, despite abrupt end to Desmond arc, and it never ended convincingly, I liked the adjoining Sage arc, that was dead as quickly , as it was bought along. Now in Odyssey we have a new Cultist arc, what is the guarantee, I will get some closure out of this arc? For all I know , we may never see Kassandra or cultists again. So what is the point , and recently there was a quote from Ubisoft that modern day is slightly more expanded than Origins, which is not enough for me, because I still do not see a meaningful arc for Layla. At this point I feel they can drop the Assassins Creed badge, and call it some generic name like "Historic RPG", which would help them write better self contained stories, The problem is the stories are neither properly self contained nor they have a proper over arching narrative.

I love the gameplay possibilities, I love that naval is back, I like the dialogue options are there. But what is the point of having all of them, if the stories that are being told, do not contribute to the AC lore, moving forward.

If they continue with the series I for one hope they reboot it hard, go back to the rich AC lore, in a meaningful arc spanning 3 great games in the next gen, that is all I would need.

I have been invested in this Franchise for 11 years, and I hope I get to say a content goodbye to it.

V3ntilator
08-24-2018, 07:52 AM
I will buy Odyssey, but i know there is similitaries with Origins. I don't care about review scores, but i care about reviews for comparisons to Origins.
It releases at a bad time for me since Forza Horizon 4 is coming out 3 days earlier...

I hope they continue with similar games if they make one for Sumerians or Norse Mythology.

Especially Norse Mythology will not look like a re-use of Origins/Odyssey.
"Assassins Creed - Valhalla?"

Sumerians is the first known humanity on earth from 6000 years ago which also were an advanced culture

MnemonicSyntax
08-24-2018, 09:17 AM
I waited till Gamescom , to see what they had to show. Here is my thoughts about the state of AC Franchise

But you didn't play it? From beginning to end?



1. Odyssey on it's own look like a fantastic game, but I feel the AC lore i.e First Civilization/ Layla arc is stuffed in just to make it AC brand worthy. This is supported by the fact only Kassandra is cannon, not Alexios. If they want to have character choices, they can give us two different characters with over lapping narratives.

What? How are the two connected again? What does proof of one have anything to do with the other?

Assassin's Creed is more than just hidden blades and hoods. People have been wanting Modern Day for a while now that has an actual protag. And this is supposed to deliver on that.


2. Despite being different from Origins in quite a few ways, heavy re-use is undeniable, the world baring the sea and some snow regions looks like expanded Alexandria, Cyrene. Ikarus the eagle, seems just to be there for an Ariel drone role. Camps (Personally the most boring parts of Origins) have not changed.

Were you expecting a new engine?


3. I am simply unable to invest in the characters, I loved Bayek, but now he is unlikely to return, I was invested in the Juno arc, despite abrupt end to Desmond arc, and it never ended convincingly, I liked the adjoining Sage arc, that was dead as quickly , as it was bought along. Now in Odyssey we have a new Cultist arc, what is the guarantee, I will get some closure out of this arc? For all I know , we may never see Kassandra or cultists again. So what is the point , and recently there was a quote from Ubisoft that modern day is slightly more expanded than Origins, which is not enough for me, because I still do not see a meaningful arc for Layla. At this point I feel they can drop the Assassins Creed badge, and call it some generic name like "Historic RPG", which would help them write better self contained stories, The problem is the stories are neither properly self contained nor they have a proper over arching narrative.

All this from Gamescom demos and videos? So were you expecting them to reveal all story arcs, including modern day?

Say it with me. Assassin's. Creed. Is. More. Than. Hidden. Blades. And. Hoods.


I love the gameplay possibilities, I love that naval is back, I like the dialogue options are there. But what is the point of having all of them, if the stories that are being told, do not contribute to the AC lore, moving forward.

Again, you know this from... Gamescom demos and videos? Sounds to me like you've played the entire game.


If they continue with the series I for one hope they reboot it hard, go back to the rich AC lore, in a meaningful arc spanning 3 great games in the next gen, that is all I would need.

A reboot isn't necessary. It just needs to wrap up loose ends.

I'd only be interested in an AC reboot if it was completely new. Something I've never played before. First being in the Animus in AC1 back in 2007 blew my mind. Learning about the Isu and the actual of humans was crazy.


I have been invested in this Franchise for 11 years, and I hope I get to say a content goodbye to it.

Based on your post, you already have said goodbye.

quanzaizai
08-24-2018, 10:55 AM
the dude just complain about the lore and how meaningful the story is based on gamescom demo which is nothing related to those things :D

ProdiGurl
08-24-2018, 12:39 PM
But what is the point of having all of them, if the stories that are being told, do not contribute to the AC lore, moving forward.

We don't know what OD is doing with Lore yet - past or future. That's where we play to find out.
I'm thinking they'll need to work the new Lore foundations to move forward while showing us how their new direction in game format is plausible from the old AC we've known. (and some care alot more about that than others. I for one don't focus on this aspect).


heavy re-use is undeniable, the world baring the sea and some snow regions looks like expanded Alexandria, Cyrene. Ikarus the eagle, seems just to be there for an Ariel drone role. Camps (Personally the most boring parts of Origins) have not changed.
>>'Cyrene was an ancient Greek and Roman city near present-day Shahhat, Libya. It was the oldest and most important of the five Greek cities in the region. It gave eastern Libya the classical name Cyrenaica that it has retained to modern times. Located nearby is the ancient Necropolis of Cyrene. '<<
So.. 2 Greek cities from Origins are 'heavy' reuse becuz they look similar in style to OD's Greece? It does look like they're using some similar looking mounts - I don't know how much of OD will be Origins material . . but it's gorgeous and well done either way.
Maybe you were already bored with the AC mechanics? ,...
Eagle vision... honestly, what are they supposed to do w/ the Eagle? It's always been used as a "drone".
In Origins, Bayek was giving alot of affection to Senu... but what more are they supposed to do w/ that?


I am simply unable to invest in the characters, I loved Bayek, but now he is unlikely to return,
Outside of Ezio, every character has been a "one off". Much as I'd love more of Bayek, it's true to what AC's been doing.
I think the real issue is that you don't like them using 2 characters to choose from when only 1 is "canon" - so you dislike or can't invest in either one. Not that if you played the game, you wouldn't bond/ like either if they were the sole character.

Some of this is unfair criticism - but I think it's more about not liking the main issues of 2 character choices involving Canon & maybe missing the old AC Lore. I could be wrong.
But we all want strong stories in our games along with a character we like & love playing.
What Ubi might be doing is trying to stay away from having new fans continue following the same Lore so that the only way they'll know what's going on is to have to catch on or catch up. (in the case we have now, they basically have to play back to Altair or find a Youtube that does a long overview w/ the AC scenes). & if they don't, the modern day & 1st Civ won't matter much to them anyway to care about it in current games.

dxsxhxcx
08-24-2018, 02:13 PM
What Ubi might be doing is trying to stay away from having new fans continue following the same Lore so that the only way they'll know what's going on is to have to catch on or catch up. (in the case we have now, they basically have to play back to Altair or find a Youtube that does a long overview w/ the AC scenes). & if they don't, the modern day & 1st Civ won't matter much to them anyway to care about it in current games.

They could avoid this if they stopped dragging out the story (and leave loose ends unsolved), the premise about the animus and the basic about TWCB and POEs are easy to explain, all they need to do is spam the current plot through 2 or 3 games (making it easier to catch up with the story) and then go to the next one instead of dragging in it for 8 years like they did with Juno.

cawatrooper9
08-24-2018, 03:52 PM
Hey RVSage, good to see you around here again! :D




I have been invested in this Franchise for 11 years, and I hope I get to say a content goodbye to it.

I understand some of the worries you might have about how Odyssey's connection to the series as a whole (though I personally am eager to see how they play out) but I'm curious if you'd prefer to see the series entirely end, or are more or less just looking for a satisfying ending to some of the previously introduced arcs?

Personally, I feel like the ideas presented in these games still have a ton of untapped potential and could theoretically go on for much longer, but I'd totally understand wanting more focus and care in the frame story.

I don't know what Layla's story is going to be like in Odyssey, but here's to hoping it gets the ball rolling on the MD train again.

RVSage
08-24-2018, 06:25 PM
Hey RVSage, good to see you around here again! :D





I understand some of the worries you might have about how Odyssey's connection to the series as a whole (though I personally am eager to see how they play out) but I'm curious if you'd prefer to see the series entirely end, or are more or less just looking for a satisfying ending to some of the previously introduced arcs?

Personally, I feel like the ideas presented in these games still have a ton of untapped potential and could theoretically go on for much longer, but I'd totally understand wanting more focus and care in the frame story.

I don't know what Layla's story is going to be like in Odyssey, but here's to hoping it gets the ball rolling on the MD train again.

Hey cawa I hope it plays out like you suggest :)

@mnemonicsyntax
First I was at e3 I did go hands on with the game.
The above are my concerns , doesn't mean I am not going to buy it or asking others not to buy it or have the same concerns , and regarding the goodbye , I meant to say , when it ends I want to end well , have not too many loose ends and make it memorable
Glad you are more positive than me

MnemonicSyntax
08-24-2018, 08:39 PM
Hey cawa I hope it plays out like you suggest :)

@mnemonicsyntax
First I was at e3 I did go hands on with the game.
The above are my concerns , doesn't mean I am not going to buy it or asking others not to buy it or have the same concerns , and regarding the goodbye , I meant to say , when it ends I want to end well , have not too many loose ends and make it memorable
Glad you are more positive than me

I didn't mean hands-on, I meant playing the entire game. With all the secrets and the growing connections with the characters, etc.

I do have high hopes. And it's been very memorable for me. If it ended now, and was rebooted I'd feel like it wasn't complete.

And I agree, it's not complete. It has a lot of things it needs to correct. But it's nothing that can't be fixed.

Assassin's Creed has literally changed my life. It has got me through some difficult times and I hope it will continue to do so in the coming months as I have personal issues I need to deal with.

I know it's not perfect, but when you look at it as a whole, the story between the Isu and this Assassin/Templar war, it plays out like some huge, convoluted game of chess.

I mean, I'm still pissed about the Juno thing. But there's still a chance to fix things. Thankfully, there's an entire world out there of protagonists and antagonists that can be created.

ElderDarklion
08-24-2018, 09:33 PM
@RVSage

I have many anxieties like you. I played AC games like you from beginning and I really miss old games allure, narrative and connection between each others. After we'll play this game, may be all our anxieties will dissappear.

Not write my thoughts about AC: Odysses because wrote it many posts. And 1 and 3 numbers at 1. post are near my thoughts.

ProdiGurl
08-25-2018, 01:01 AM
Same here with getting me thru some issues/anxiety & there's always bound to be more - I started noticing how games seem regular to play when you play them, but after a few years passes by, you realize that they notch time periods in your life & how they impacted your memories.
To this day I keep City of Rome on my MP3 & play it during workouts.... really fond memories of that time in 2010 when I got my first AC game & was blown away by Ezio in Rome. Games get me thru alot of things - help me escape & live vicariously when I need to or get out aggression.I'm pretty sure it's why I tend to put Devs on a pedestal. I need this hobby, love it & appreciate what they've given us. .(But that's just me) :)

MstrTarvos
08-25-2018, 02:06 PM
I can agree with this sentiment completely. I have severe back pain issues that medication doesn't always help. I tend to focus very intently on the games that I play,

I love this series (even if I don't always agree with the direction the devs go), and I love the other Ubisoft games that I play (The Division, Watch Dogs) and I hope they go on for a long time, but this moaning about things not being cannon is stupid. I understand wanting a consistent and verifiable history, but that shouldn’t be enough to dislike a game. While the history can give perspective to the story, I believe it is the story itself and the gameplay that should determine whether or not you like or enjoy a game.

joelsantos24
08-25-2018, 08:10 PM
1. Odyssey on it's own look like a fantastic game, but I feel the AC lore i.e First Civilization/ Layla arc is stuffed in just to make it AC brand worthy. This is supported by the fact only Kassandra is cannon, not Alexios. If they want to have character choices, they can give us two different characters with over lapping narratives.
Well, I think the problem is that Ubisoft wanted to completely transform the series from a simple action game into a full-fledged service-RPG. And, of course, a full-fledged RPG isn't one, without character choices, dialogue options, multiple endings, etc. Whether or not, though, those variables belong or fit the series, that's a completely different story.

The explanations given, for the severe mythological incongruencies, are nonsensical, at best. Having two characters isn't the problem. The problem, is having two characters that seem to have lived the same exact experiences and have the same exact memories. That's the problem.


2. Despite being different from Origins in quite a few ways, heavy re-use is undeniable, the world baring the sea and some snow regions looks like expanded Alexandria, Cyrene. Ikarus the eagle, seems just to be there for an Ariel drone role. Camps (Personally the most boring parts of Origins) have not changed.
Yes, that's a sort of existential conundrum of Ubisoft's. The company can't exist without heavy standardisation of all of it's series. With the exception of the central theme, which has to be distinct, depending on the series, all their games have precisely the same features, characteristics, elements and gameplay mechanics. The drone in Odyssey, will be the same as in Origins, which was itself the same as in Wildlands. Everyone knows that Ubisoft's series are fundamentally defined by a barrage of clichés (https://www.gamesradar.com/ubisoft-games-have-a-new-cliche-and-its-turning-us-all-into-social-media-stars/). The drone is just one example. That's how it is.


3. I am simply unable to invest in the characters, I loved Bayek, but now he is unlikely to return, I was invested in the Juno arc, despite abrupt end to Desmond arc, and it never ended convincingly, I liked the adjoining Sage arc, that was dead as quickly , as it was bought along. Now in Odyssey we have a new Cultist arc, what is the guarantee, I will get some closure out of this arc? For all I know , we may never see Kassandra or cultists again. So what is the point , and recently there was a quote from Ubisoft that modern day is slightly more expanded than Origins, which is not enough for me, because I still do not see a meaningful arc for Layla. At this point I feel they can drop the Assassins Creed badge, and call it some generic name like "Historic RPG", which would help them write better self contained stories, The problem is the stories are neither properly self contained nor they have a proper over arching narrative.
Ubisoft isn't interested in storylines or narrative structures. Ever since Unity, they've been heavily invested into including less and less narrative elements in their games. You can't really expect to still get deep, multi-dimentional, complex characters, when they're not focusing on the narrative and the mythology of the series. According to many AC fans, the series died with Desmond.


I love the gameplay possibilities, I love that naval is back, I like the dialogue options are there. But what is the point of having all of them, if the stories that are being told, do not contribute to the AC lore, moving forward.

If they continue with the series I for one hope they reboot it hard, go back to the rich AC lore, in a meaningful arc spanning 3 great games in the next gen, that is all I would need.

I have been invested in this Franchise for 11 years, and I hope I get to say a content goodbye to it.
I've also been enjoying what I've been watching, about the gameplay mechanics. The problem, is that I'm very much interested in stories and narrative, and that's essentially what anchors me to a series/game. Odyssey is sacrificing much of what defined the series, simply to attract new players. I don't believe that you need to sacrifice the identity of a game/series, just to attract new audiences.

No one and nothing will ever coherently explain why two different persons managed to live the same exact lives, so to speak. Additionally, with every interaction of the protagonist with other characters, we'll be bending reality and time. Nothing will ever consistently explain this feature, besides "the Animus is now a Piece of Eden in itself, so we can now effectively travel back in time and actually interact with reality itself, therefore being able to potentially change it". Obviously, the repercussions to the mythological structure of the series, are very much unpredictable, because the game will have multiple endings. Ultimately, I do agree with other fans who said that "Ubisoft have opened a can of worms", with these changes. We'll see.

ProdiGurl
08-25-2018, 08:43 PM
I can agree with this sentiment completely. I have severe back pain issues that medication doesn't always help. I tend to focus very intently on the games that I play,

I love this series (even if I don't always agree with the direction the devs go), and I love the other Ubisoft games that I play (The Division, Watch Dogs) and I hope they go on for a long time, but this moaning about things not being cannon is stupid. I understand wanting a consistent and verifiable history, but that shouldn’t be enough to dislike a game. While the history can give perspective to the story, I believe it is the story itself and the gameplay that should determine whether or not you like or enjoy a game.
Hey, my parents live in TC Mich. ! Grew up vacationing there as a kid, was there every summer for the Cherry Parade & I remember 4th of July fireworks alot too. How awesome :D
So sorry about your back pain - got rear ended last July 11 on fwy exit, totaled car & had headache/neck issues for a good 6 mos. - in my case, gaming didn't help, my left thumb was broken, so my controller was a real problem to work & got massive neck fatigue in almost any position. But continued playing anyway lol. At least I had a great reason for playing so poorly. Now that's gone lol
Whatever helps you get thru.

Ya I feel the same - i ask myself, what would be more important to me, Canon/Lore with a not very good game or compromised Canon/Lore w/ awesome gameplay & story. I'd take gameplay & story.
I know it's a faulty set of choices for alot of reasons but if Gameplay is fun & challenging, great story, likeable character, I'm happy. (And preferably a nice soundtrack).

Infinite_Gnosis
08-25-2018, 09:57 PM
I know it's a faulty set of choices for alot of reasons but if Gameplay is fun & challenging, great story, likeable character, I'm happy. (And preferably a nice soundtrack).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccJIOyXKO90


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztTjQB89v6U

These two songs so beautifully capture what AC's atmosphere used to be like. It was a true piece of art full of soul back then in my opinion, not just a game with things mainstream gamers want, mixed together in a huge blender. Just listen to those tracks with your eyes closed... Perhaps then you'll understand what "whining" AC fans are truly longing for. And no, i'm not a conservative, longing for "the good old days". I'm just talking about the soul and essence of the franchise here, in my opinion ofcourse.

I personally would like the people who designed the glyph puzzles and tombs in ACB back on the team. Those were genius. Some of them were quite difficult to solve actually, and i loved it. The puzzles in Origins were a joke really.. And that for ancient Egypt with all the temples, tombs and secrets. So much potential gone to waste.. I'm sure that if the original team had worked on ancient Egypt it would have turned out A LOT different. Way better for mystery lovers like myself. Unfortunately we're a relatively small group of people in this current culture ruled by huge corporations, where it's all about maximizing profits.

Infinite_Gnosis
08-25-2018, 10:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnPmg0R1M04&t=315s

Interesting and informative documentary very relevant to AC's underlying storyline.

MstrTarvos
08-25-2018, 11:28 PM
Ya I feel the same - i ask myself, what would be more important to me, Canon/Lore with a not very good game or compromised Canon/Lore w/ awesome gameplay & story. I'd take gameplay & story.
I know it's a faulty set of choices for alot of reasons but if Gameplay is fun & challenging, great story, likeable character, I'm happy. (And preferably a nice soundtrack).

I would love to be able to know and understand all the lore for the series, but I don’t have the money or time to try and catch up. I suppose if I started playing when the first game came out I could have kept up, but getting all the books/comics/etc. to do that would have been expensive and I didn’t even know about the game until several years later

ProdiGurl
08-26-2018, 02:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccJIOyXKO90


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztTjQB89v6U

These two songs so beautifully capture what AC's atmosphere used to be like. It was a true piece of art full of soul back then in my opinion, not just a game with things mainstream gamers want, mixed together in a huge blender. Just listen to those tracks with your eyes closed... Perhaps then you'll understand what "whining" AC fans are truly longing for. And no, i'm not a conservative, longing for "the good old days". I'm just talking about the soul and essence of the franchise here, in my opinion ofcourse.

I personally would like the people who designed the glyph puzzles and tombs in ACB back on the team. Those were genius. Some of them were quite difficult to solve actually, and i loved it. The puzzles in Origins were a joke really.. And that for ancient Egypt with all the temples, tombs and secrets. So much potential gone to waste.. I'm sure that if the original team had worked on ancient Egypt it would have turned out A LOT different. Way better for mystery lovers like myself. Unfortunately we're a relatively small group of people in this current culture ruled by huge corporations, where it's all about maximizing profits.
Well I thought nothing could come close to Brotherhood/Ezio's trilogy but Origins managed to achieve that incl. how I felt about Bayek. New things can rarely surpass the 'good old days' we loved. They're just different & probly impossible to get that back. I'm that way w/ Resident Evil 4 too. No matter how good a game they make now, it won't be able to beat RE4 and all it was to me when I played it 3 times.

I think when some game series are new, there's a sort of magic about them... the excitement of a new concept, mechanisms, characters & story we love. But then as they go on, things become familiar & whatever the charm is, wears off a little and everyone's scrambling to try to get that back again.
I saw the forum during full synch - people wanted more freedom as it was getting routine & confining even though devs were adding and changing what they could.
Revelations (2011) was probly least liked of the the Trilogy - I read a forum w/ alot of complaining & arguments btwn those who liked it & who didn't.

The restrictions & basics were fine for a few games when it was new, I could be wrong but I doubt the old formula could continue even w/ Patrice at the helm, for every AC game after. Even if releases weren't yearly, there would have been 5-6 more games put out. And in the meantime, Gamers and gaming trends change with time. We tend to glamorize the 'what if's' but reality is that I think there would have been the same pitfalls & complaining in later games if the formula had stayed the same as it was from 2007. & AC has a higher bar to reach, it's not like GTA & high impact, action games. It's more like Chess than checkers so to speak.
We learn to love new things in a different way, it doesn't mean AC is 'gone' - esp. after Origins was so awesome.

By the way, I was one of the fans asking for the Mystery & puzzles back. I cheated on most of them, but they were still eerie & fun. I miss that too.

ProdiGurl
08-26-2018, 04:05 AM
I would love to be able to know and understand all the lore for the series, but I don’t have the money or time to try and catch up. I suppose if I started playing when the first game came out I could have kept up, but getting all the books/comics/etc. to do that would have been expensive and I didn’t even know about the game until several years later
I totally understand that. I never played AC 1 either. I came in on Brotherhood in June2011. Then backtracked to ACII then Revelations when that came out & loved all 3.
I probly needed to see AC1 to get the beginning of all the Lore w/ Modern Day, Juno & all that stuff to understand it better. I think some of it's confusing.
It's so long in btwn releases that I usually forget what little I grasped from the previous one too
My main focus is playing the Assassin, the history/graphics & story. If that's done well, I'm happy. I would think there's a Youtube video that would play all those parts if interested?
=)

MnemonicSyntax
08-26-2018, 04:29 AM
Personally, I don't care for difficult puzzles. The ones from Brotherhood were better compared to the ones in 2.

ProdiGurl
08-26-2018, 11:37 AM
I'm not fond of difficult puzzles either - I'm not completely horrible at figuring some out but some are just impossible & irritating. I try for awhile but if it's taking way too long & I'm getting really frustrated & annoyed, I'll just cheat.
But some sort of mystery to it is awesome. I really loved using the eagle vision to spot the invisible markings ... I found this page link as a reminder.
Searching for clues is usually alot of fun. It is for me, I love detective/mystery stuff that way.
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Cryptic_Messages

Kiroku
08-26-2018, 01:09 PM
Well when watching the fights on see at gamescom there was one thing that really disappointed me.
When entering an enemy ship to fight their crew on it literally noone of my crew members came to join me in the fight. I was the only one on the enemy ship fighting the whole crew.

I am the captain like wtf? Why does nobody help me?

They said you can recruit almost everyone for your ship. So why arent we able to also LOSE everyone we can recruit on our ship by risking a fight against an enemy crew? Maybe someone will fall of the ship when suddenly a shark comes to snack him.

Additionally without canons and just having arrows the naval combat is not that fascinating as it was in black flag.

EDIT: I know because of time period there were no canons for ships at all. Just wanted to clarify that its not that stunning

ProdiGurl
08-26-2018, 02:17 PM
Well when watching the fights on see at gamescom there was one thing that really disappointed me.
When entering an enemy ship to fight their crew on it literally noone of my crew members came to join me in the fight. I was the only one on the enemy ship fighting the whole crew.

I am the captain like wtf? Why does nobody help me?

They said you can recruit almost everyone for your ship. So why arent we able to also LOSE everyone we can recruit on our ship by risking a fight against an enemy crew? Maybe someone will fall of the ship when suddenly a shark comes to snack him.

Additionally without canons and just having arrows the naval combat is not that fascinating as it was in black flag.

EDIT: I know because of time period there were no canons for ships at all. Just wanted to clarify that its not that stunning
K, so check out GameSpot's E3 gameplay footage seg. starting at about 6:45 min in - & esp. at 7:05 when Alexios is boarding their ship - I think there's friendly Mercs already there fighting the enemy crew but I don't know where they came from?. Whoever they are, they're helping you wipe the crew out, so I dunno if they're Mercs you recruited..... or if you get help in some battles but not all battles depending on what's going on w/ who you recruited or if you need a specific upgrade to the ship - like a plank that they can throw down to be able to walk onto the enemy boat?

Maybe you can Sparta Kick your own crew members into the water? All I know is, any way Ubi decided to do Naval will get complaints. If your crew can board an enemy ship & fight, people won't want that or like how it was done, etc. We'll see
https://www.gamespot.com/videos/assassins-creed-odyssey-gameplay-demo-e3-2018/2300-6444568/

quanzaizai
08-26-2018, 02:41 PM
K, so check out GameSpot's E3 gameplay footage seg. starting at about 6:45 min in - & esp. at 7:05 when Alexios is boarding their ship - I think there's friendly Mercs already there fighting the enemy crew but I don't know where they came from?. Whoever they are, they're helping you wipe the crew out, so I dunno if they're Mercs you recruited..... or if you get help in some battles but not all battles depending on what's going on w/ who you recruited or if you need a specific upgrade to the ship - like a plank that they can throw down to be able to walk onto the enemy boat?

Maybe you can Sparta Kick your own crew members into the water? All I know is, any way Ubi decided to do Naval will get complaints. If your crew can board an enemy ship & fight, people won't want that or like how it was done, etc. We'll see
https://www.gamespot.com/videos/assassins-creed-odyssey-gameplay-demo-e3-2018/2300-6444568/

only recruited member join you in the fight.
the reason kiroku didn't see anyone fight is because in gamescom demo there is no recruited members on your ship

tho I understand that people want all your crew to fight but the scale of the battle is too big and too much going on the screen, on another hand your crew definitely crush enemy's crew by numbers. thats why they have 150v150 battle separately and there is no realtime NPC fighting with HP count, they were just doing fighting animation and killed by calculated chance. I hope they'll have that kind of 150v150 battle on ship at some points of the game.

FlyingMan78
08-26-2018, 03:46 PM
I'm not fond of difficult puzzles either - I'm not completely horrible at figuring some out but some are just impossible & irritating. I try for awhile but if it's taking way too long & I'm getting really frustrated & annoyed, I'll just cheat.

Ditto. I'd found myself bruteforcing a lot of them, especially the ones with the wheels and the missing glyphs. I HATED those. I know they were completely optional, but I'd do them anyway, for the sake of completeness. Just like I felt compelled to repeat again and again the missions with the special requirements. Still I don't know why I did submit myself to that kind of frustration. Evil, evil stuff.

ProdiGurl
08-26-2018, 04:15 PM
Ditto. I'd found myself bruteforcing a lot of them, especially the ones with the wheels and the missing glyphs. I HATED those. I know they were completely optional, but I'd do them anyway, for the sake of completeness. Just like I felt compelled to repeat again and again the missions with the special requirements. Still I don't know why I did submit myself to that kind of frustration. Evil, evil stuff.
Haha ya.that's so true. It was really horrific when you played games & got stuck before there were internet sites & sources with cheats ! If you couldn't figure it out, you were done playing till you figured it out yourself unless maybe those Game Guides I never bought gave you the answers. I think they just gave some clue help? Pure torture.

ModernWaffle
08-26-2018, 05:30 PM
1. ... I feel the AC lore i.e First Civilization/ Layla arc is stuffed in just to make it AC brand worthy. This is supported by the fact only Kassandra is cannon, not Alexios. If they want to have character choices, they can give us two different characters with over lapping narratives.

The franchise by this point has a bad history of misleading marketing and incoherent plot direction. Whilst it's not fact that Odyssey's writing will be bad or that MD will be somehow neglected once again, having the same repeating trend of disappointment since Unity should be enough evidence to convince people that nothing will be different this time round.


3. ... Now in Odyssey we have a new Cultist arc, what is the guarantee, I will get some closure out of this arc? For all I know, we may never see Kassandra or cultists again. So what is the point , and recently there was a quote from Ubisoft that modern day is slightly more expanded than Origins, which is not enough for me, because I still do not see a meaningful arc for Layla ... The problem is the stories are neither properly self contained nor they have a proper over arching narrative.

Related to point 1: I have still yet to see someone provide a valid counter-argument for this point? I see some people asserting that it's still an AC story because there's going to be first civilization focus and MD but haven't the former two elements always been sought - and conveniently unaddressed - since Black Flag after the sudden change of direction from Juno? In short, it can't be an 'AC story' or any other story if the (overarching and self contained) plot/s fundamentally make no sense to begin with.

Yes, it's not just 'hidden blades and hoods' but if you don't have a consistent narrative going then those iconic symbols start to take greater weight in what's left of the brand's identity. And now that those symbols are losing their prominence in Odyssey's marketing, what can you guarantee to me will be returning in the next AC game that is essentially exclusive to the franchise alone?

MnemonicSyntax
08-26-2018, 05:49 PM
The franchise by this point has a bad history of misleading marketing and incoherent plot direction. Whilst it's not fact that Odyssey's writing will be bad or that MD will be somehow neglected once again, having the same repeating trend of disappointment since Unity should be enough evidence to convince people that nothing will be different this time round.



Related to point 1: I have still yet to see someone provide a valid counter-argument for this point? I see some people asserting that it's still an AC story because there's going to be first civilization focus and MD but haven't the former two elements always been sought - and conveniently unaddressed - since Black Flag after the sudden change of direction from Juno? In short, it can't be an 'AC story' or any other story if the (overarching and self contained) plot/s fundamentally make no sense to begin with.

Yes, it's not just 'hidden blades and hoods' but if you don't have a consistent narrative going then those iconic symbols start to take greater weight in what's left of the brand's identity. And now that those symbols are losing their prominence in Odyssey's marketing, what can you guarantee to me will be returning in the next AC game that is essentially exclusive to the franchise alone?

It's been said by Jonathan Dumont that there are some fans out there that have zero care for the modern day story and zero care for the Isu, POEs, etc. and that's why there hasn't been an impact on those facets of the franchise.

Odyssey is hoping to bring those back in a big way, to still keep that connection. It's a different playing field, a time where the Isu actually still existed.

The connection in every other game has been "hoods and hidden blades" but this time it's going back to the source of the series.

The valid counter-argument is just what I've said. In regards to other parts of the story, such as the cultists or wondering about Layla and not having a continuing story arc, we've yet to play the game to completion to know what the plan is.

The biggest issue I have with this post is that there is this mantra that "Assassin's Creed Odyssey will have terrible writing or incoherent plot direction because all the previous games have it too", unfinished plot lines, gaping holes in the story, etc.

And yet Odyssey is taking a step forward in going to a time period where the Isu existed, and they're focusing on the modern day plot more (which if I can recall, hasn't ever been brought up in previous games as something being touted as a gameplay focus in interviews)

So we have this drastic change in the franchise and yet, without people playing it (again, to completion) I hear "It's the same old, same old."

*Tom Cruise* What?

Sorry if the counter-argument isn't valid enough for you. And hey, I might be wrong. But this is such a drastic shift in the franchise that things will either be explained to completion and plotholes somehow filled. Or maybe not.

ModernWaffle
08-26-2018, 06:27 PM
Sorry if the counter-argument isn't valid enough for you. And hey, I might be wrong. But this is such a drastic shift in the franchise that things will either be explained to completion and plotholes somehow filled. Or maybe not.

I get where you are coming from - but to save us both a bit of time I don't see much use for both of us discussing this point about continuity when we've probably gone over it more than enough times with other forum users. So going to agree to disagree here.


The biggest issue I have with this post is that there is this mantra that "Assassin's Creed Odyssey will have terrible writing or incoherent plot direction because all the previous games have it too", unfinished plot lines, gaping holes in the story, etc.

I will address this point however as I think it's key to most of the debates surrounding Odyssey. As I pointed out of course it's not guaranteed to have a bad story by default of the previous games mishandling their own and you're correct about that. But that being said, surely that's all I can base it on at this point because as you said no one has played the full game yet. I would usually give games the benefit of the doubt but even Origins, which looked a lot more hopeful and had less red flags pre-release ended up having its fair share of disappointments despite numerous people insisting on the 'wait and see on release' approach at that moment of time.

I have to take all official comments regarding the story or explanations about the change of artisitc direction with a huge grain of salt because Ubisoft's marketing is often unreliable and has a tendency to beat around the bush.

FlyingMan78
08-26-2018, 06:42 PM
Call me heretic, but I’m one of those who couldn’t care less about the present. Every interlude in the present felt like waking up from a dream. Besides, the resolution to every story in the present wasn’t as dramatic as the one in the past. The games always finished their present story with a WTF cliffhanger that came right after a mostly satisfying ending to the past story.

That’s why I’d prefer they’d focus in a Setup-Conflict-Resolution story, just in the past, for every game indepently. For me, the identity of the series is still intact, and will never change. That is, exploring past, exotic times in a fancy way. The rest, may Ubisoft change it at they see fit.

They’ve certainly hit the right notes (for me) with Odyssey!

ProdiGurl
08-26-2018, 06:52 PM
It's been said by Jonathan Dumont that there are some fans out there that have zero care for the modern day story and zero care for the Isu, POEs, etc. and that's why there hasn't been an impact on those facets of the franchise.

Odyssey is hoping to bring those back in a big way, to still keep that connection. It's a different playing field, a time where the Isu actually still existed.

The connection in every other game has been "hoods and hidden blades" but this time it's going back to the source of the series.

The valid counter-argument is just what I've said. In regards to other parts of the story, such as the cultists or wondering about Layla and not having a continuing story arc, we've yet to play the game to completion to know what the plan is.

The biggest issue I have with this post is that there is this mantra that "Assassin's Creed Odyssey will have terrible writing or incoherent plot direction because all the previous games have it too", unfinished plot lines, gaping holes in the story, etc.

And yet Odyssey is taking a step forward in going to a time period where the Isu existed, and they're focusing on the modern day plot more (which if I can recall, hasn't ever been brought up in previous games as something being touted as a gameplay focus in interviews)

So we have this drastic change in the franchise and yet, without people playing it (again, to completion) I hear "It's the same old, same old."

*Tom Cruise* What?

Sorry if the counter-argument isn't valid enough for you. And hey, I might be wrong. But this is such a drastic shift in the franchise that things will either be explained to completion and plotholes somehow filled. Or maybe not.
Just to mention that I'm one of those older fans that has posted that my focus is mainly on our Assassin character & gameplay... I'm sure there's alot of newer players that feel that way when they don't know all the previous details of MD, Juno etc.
What I had said before is that they have to decide to wrap up the loose ends and make it a cohesive plot to continue on with or end most of this somehow by laying new foundation as to how we can be reliving past assassins lives without all the other content. Take a direction & go all in with it or get out. This piecing it with small segments of some side story bits then back to the "real" game isn't good for any fans, new or older.
So I'd like to see some significant coverage with all this too - either way.

MnemonicSyntax
08-26-2018, 07:23 PM
Just to mention that I'm one of those older fans that has posted that my focus is mainly on our Assassin character & gameplay... I'm sure there's alot of newer players that feel that way when they don't know all the previous details of MD, Juno etc.
What I had said before is that they have to decide to wrap up the loose ends and make it a cohesive plot to continue on with or end most of this somehow by laying new foundation as to how we can be reliving past assassins lives without all the other content. Take a direction & go all in with it or get out. This piecing it with small segments of some side story bits then back to the "real" game isn't good for any fans, new or older.
So I'd like to see some significant coverage with all this too - either way.

I feel like they're trying to do that with Layla. We've already seen she doesn't have to "deal" with Juno anymore. (Well, not seen unless you read the comics.)

We know there are other Assassin cells out there doing things. Their stories haven't been told, or they've been told in a non-gaming media (like the comics, le sigh) but are able to still be told to not only the player, but Layla as well. As she is "new" to the Assassin Brotherhood, it would be good on Ubisoft to have William or someone else "catch her up" on what has been going on.

Plot holes like the Sage aren't necessarily holes as much as they're divots. They don't necessarily need any sort of completion as we again know what happen to John. But the closing of the Juno arc should logically close out the Sage arc, and if that's the case then again, William could fill Layla in.

And it could be completely optional. Something that the player could avoid if they didn't want to hear it.

Kiroku
08-26-2018, 11:46 PM
K, so check out GameSpot's E3 gameplay footage seg. starting at about 6:45 min in - & esp. at 7:05 when Alexios is boarding their ship - I think there's friendly Mercs already there fighting the enemy crew but I don't know where they came from?. Whoever they are, they're helping you wipe the crew out, so I dunno if they're Mercs you recruited..... or if you get help in some battles but not all battles depending on what's going on w/ who you recruited or if you need a specific upgrade to the ship - like a plank that they can throw down to be able to walk onto the enemy boat?

Maybe you can Sparta Kick your own crew members into the water? All I know is, any way Ubi decided to do Naval will get complaints. If your crew can board an enemy ship & fight, people won't want that or like how it was done, etc. We'll see
https://www.gamespot.com/videos/assassins-creed-odyssey-gameplay-demo-e3-2018/2300-6444568/


only recruited member join you in the fight.
the reason kiroku didn't see anyone fight is because in gamescom demo there is no recruited members on your ship

tho I understand that people want all your crew to fight but the scale of the battle is too big and too much going on the screen, on another hand your crew definitely crush enemy's crew by numbers. thats why they have 150v150 battle separately and there is no realtime NPC fighting with HP count, they were just doing fighting animation and killed by calculated chance. I hope they'll have that kind of 150v150 battle on ship at some points of the game.


Oh so this is the whole reason why I was thinking nobody comes to help!

Thanks for the clarification tho. That indeed makes me overthinking at least some of my reason why I still didnt preordered the game yet.

TaleraRis
08-27-2018, 01:05 AM
I played and enjoyed Origins but there was a lot that didn't ring true to AC for me. I forgave it since it was the start of everything. It's harder to forgive Odyssey for this. The more I see of it, the less I see of the AC series. I wonder if they should have just made a new IP so they could explore the mainstream things present in open world RPGs, rather than completely change this series to suit those players.

ProdiGurl
08-27-2018, 02:10 AM
I played and enjoyed Origins but there was a lot that didn't ring true to AC for me. I forgave it since it was the start of everything. It's harder to forgive Odyssey for this. The more I see of it, the less I see of the AC series. I wonder if they should have just made a new IP so they could explore the mainstream things present in open world RPGs, rather than completely change this series to suit those players.
The 2 games are way too much alike to do 2 separate series with them and way too much difference to split enough customization to fully do both imo. To me it has more than enough feel and mechanics of being AC. I don't know what the % of 'traditional' or hardcore Lore fans are, but I still think they're making the right decision with it.
Either way they move, they'll lose certain gamers by it and at this point, after over a decade, I think they're moving in the right direction in general.
Whether that makes AC a good or better game, I don't know (probably each one will individually be better or worse than others) - we'll see how they tie things together in the story. =)

FlyingMan78
08-27-2018, 06:49 AM
The 2 games are way too much alike to do 2 separate series with them and way too much difference to split enough customization to fully do both imo. To me it has more than enough feel and mechanics of being AC. I don't know what the % of 'traditional' or hardcore Lore fans are, but I still think they're making the right decision with it.
Either way they move, they'll lose certain gamers by it and at this point, after over a decade, I think they're moving in the right direction in general.
Whether that makes AC a good or better game, I don't know (probably each one will individually be better or worse than others) - we'll see how they tie things together in the story. =)

Preach. After so many years, AC is finally taking shape. It’s the natural evolution of the series, a customization game that started in the Auditore Villa with all of that shop management, continuing with the assassin mission management in Brotherhood and Revelations, the product management in ACIII, the clothes customization in Unity and so on.

If they did a new series, people would accuse them of making it too similar to AC. People just like to nitpick for the sake of it.

Olympus2018
08-27-2018, 08:56 AM
I waited till Gamescom , to see what they had to show. Here is my thoughts about the state of AC Franchise

First things first , Glad we have no AC game next year. That being said, I am not on board with Odyssey as an AC game. and here is why

1. Odyssey on it's own look like a fantastic game, but I feel the AC lore i.e First Civilization/ Layla arc is stuffed in just to make it AC brand worthy. This is supported by the fact only Kassandra is cannon, not Alexios. If they want to have character choices, they can give us two different characters with over lapping narratives.

2. Despite being different from Origins in quite a few ways, heavy re-use is undeniable, the world baring the sea and some snow regions looks like expanded Alexandria, Cyrene. Ikarus the eagle, seems just to be there for an Ariel drone role. Camps (Personally the most boring parts of Origins) have not changed.

3. I am simply unable to invest in the characters, I loved Bayek, but now he is unlikely to return, I was invested in the Juno arc, despite abrupt end to Desmond arc, and it never ended convincingly, I liked the adjoining Sage arc, that was dead as quickly , as it was bought along. Now in Odyssey we have a new Cultist arc, what is the guarantee, I will get some closure out of this arc? For all I know , we may never see Kassandra or cultists again. So what is the point , and recently there was a quote from Ubisoft that modern day is slightly more expanded than Origins, which is not enough for me, because I still do not see a meaningful arc for Layla. At this point I feel they can drop the Assassins Creed badge, and call it some generic name like "Historic RPG", which would help them write better self contained stories, The problem is the stories are neither properly self contained nor they have a proper over arching narrative.

I love the gameplay possibilities, I love that naval is back, I like the dialogue options are there. But what is the point of having all of them, if the stories that are being told, do not contribute to the AC lore, moving forward.

If they continue with the series I for one hope they reboot it hard, go back to the rich AC lore, in a meaningful arc spanning 3 great games in the next gen, that is all I would need.

I have been invested in this Franchise for 11 years, and I hope I get to say a content goodbye to it.

I think reality will prove you wrong. Origins is the wrong game to invest your time in. Unlike Origins + DLC which lasted less than a year and was merely an experiment, Odyssey will be the game worth investing your time into.... For the first time ever, an AC game will have so much post launch DLC, that will make the game playable for the next 2 or 3 years. It's going to be the largest open world ever.

joelsantos24
08-27-2018, 01:58 PM
The franchise by this point has a bad history of misleading marketing and incoherent plot direction. Whilst it's not fact that Odyssey's writing will be bad or that MD will be somehow neglected once again, having the same repeating trend of disappointment since Unity should be enough evidence to convince people that nothing will be different this time round.
In addition to those already known misleading business practices, Ubisoft has re-qualified the series into a different genre, which, admittedly, isn't good for story and character development as well as the establishment of a compelling, coherent narrative. It's difficult, within a full-fledged RPG set inside a massive open world, to present an exciting and staggering narrative. Irrevocably, the story will always be drowned in dozens and dozens of hours of main missions, secondary missions, simple tasks, free-roaming, resource collecting, treasure/collectible seeking, crafting, character management, etc, essentially fading into obscurity.

More than anything, the writing's on the wall (https://www.polygon.com/2016/11/18/13681926/ubisoft-unscripted-narrative-assassins-creed-2017).


Related to point 1: I have still yet to see someone provide a valid counter-argument for this point? I see some people asserting that it's still an AC story because there's going to be first civilization focus and MD but haven't the former two elements always been sought - and conveniently unaddressed - since Black Flag after the sudden change of direction from Juno? In short, it can't be an 'AC story' or any other story if the (overarching and self contained) plot/s fundamentally make no sense to begin with.
It's not that the series has taken a dramatic change in direction, and therefore should be glorified for it. We do know that Odyssey will be the same as the previous instalments, in regards to the typical incoherent storylines and overall disjointed narrative. Because the narrative isn't the focus, anymore, as assumed by the company's representatives themselves. How can we even discuss cohesion and coherence in the plot structure, when Odyssey has two different protagonists that, incomprehensibly, have apparently lived the same life experiences, and so, carry the same memories?


Yes, it's not just 'hidden blades and hoods' but if you don't have a consistent narrative going then those iconic symbols start to take greater weight in what's left of the brand's identity. And now that those symbols are losing their prominence in Odyssey's marketing, what can you guarantee to me will be returning in the next AC game that is essentially exclusive to the franchise alone?
Exactly.

One way or another, the story, plot line and overall narrative structure, are crucial to establish a well-connected, universal mythology that can represent the identity of the series. As far as I can remember, there aren't any recorded proto-Assasins pre-dating Artabanus (first recorded wielder of the hidden-blade in 465 B.C.), but we know that both orders/movements began with Abel and Cain, the younger and older sons of the first human hybrids created by the Isu, Adam and Eve.

So, there's much to be told and many time periods to focus on, before Odyssey and even Artabanus himself. The series doesn't end with the hoods or the hidden-blade, granted, nor does it intrinsically depend on their presence or absence, mind you. It's the larger picture that we must focus on. That is to say, the overall narrative structure. That's what really identifies and characterises the series, in my opinion. With that being said, the hoods and hidden-blade are, indeed, part of the Assassins' visual/ideological identity.

ProdiGurl
08-27-2018, 04:02 PM
I think reality will prove you wrong. Origins is the wrong game to invest your time in. Unlike Origins + DLC which lasted less than a year and was merely an experiment, Odyssey will be the game worth investing your time into.... For the first time ever, an AC game will have so much post launch DLC, that will make the game playable for the next 2 or 3 years. It's going to be the largest open world ever.
I'm actually hoping for a full game disc release in 2019 that expands OD.... or maybe includes some Bayek sequel content of some kind if a video I saw was correct about Bayek not being finished yet. ? Maybe if they did a sequel it would be in 2020?? I don't do DLC but I may have to break down & go for it if that's what they offer in 2019.


In addition to those already known misleading business practices, Ubisoft has re-qualified the series into a different genre, which, admittedly, isn't good for story and character development as well as the establishment of a compelling, coherent narrative. It's difficult, within a full-fledged RPG set inside a massive open world, to present an exciting and staggering narrative. Irrevocably, the story will always be drowned in dozens and dozens of hours of main missions, secondary missions, simple tasks, free-roaming, resource collecting, treasure/collectible seeking, crafting, character management, etc, essentially fading into obscurity.

More than anything, the writing's on the wall (https://www.polygon.com/2016/11/18/13681926/ubisoft-unscripted-narrative-assassins-creed-2017).

........
It's not that the series has taken a dramatic change in direction, and therefore should be glorified for it.
I can't speak for others but I don't glorify change for change's sake at all. I genuinely like the direction they're taking & think it benefits AC in the long run as the gaming world evolves and I have to wonder if devs themselves are wanting to close out the phase of having to plot & write the scripting for this content?

I admit that even tho I'm an early AC fan, this whole Isu/Juno/MD Lore pretty much eludes me for different reasons that I'll spell out here since it's a more appropriate topic to elaborate in.
1. I generally have a short retention span... I have to REALLY be interested in something to put the focus into retaining/learning what I've seen or heard. (don't know why). When I am deeply interested in something, it's not an issue at all.
2. I haven't played AC1, so never started at the very beginning where foundations were laid (don't know if it's necessary for proper understanding?)
3. What I did play of it in Ezio's trilogy mostly confused me. I do understand the Animus aspect pretty well & POE some. I also disliked Desmond for some reason (so that didn't help my lack of priority w/ MD).
4. My priority in AC & most all games is gameplay, not bits of narratives that I view more as a side story/side content. The parts I loved in my first AC experience were playing as Ezio so that's where my focus is. That's NOT to say that I don't want a good story/plot either. Story is very important.
5. I tend to forget many details of the previous game a year or 2 later at next release, so alot gets lost there too.

As for Ubi's direction relating to gamers who haven't played many AC's, they'd know even less... or care.... & I admit that some of that is on Ubi devs in the way this Lore has been presented. Piecing it out & making it extremely complex & confusing has made it feel like it's breaking immersion to the main game rather than an intricate part of AC.
MD is just a blurb of essentially the same thing as the game before it. There's very little interesting story to it w/ the characters themselves. Lack of connection to them. Even tho I disliked Desmond, they did at least make it more of a story in Brotherhood that took my interest. The Subject 16 thing was interesting (but confusing too).
At least that's how I've perceive it in my experience. So there's that. (Probly #6 = Ubi's presentation of this content in general that leads to some lack of interest/understanding of it).
Either go all in & make it spectacular or tie it up & end it bcuz it isn't helping any fans.

Last thing, I've been going thru alot of older AC walkthru's - one popular youtube gamer was narrating & essentially said he didn't care much for ______ (previous few games) due to lack of real connection or interest in the characters themselves. So imo, the protagonist is vital to any AC game bcuz I feel the same way. The 2 character's I've felt the closest bonds with, happen to be my favorite AC games: Ezio's trilogy & Bayek's Origins.
So if they do fade out this part of Lore, if they can create strong likeable characters, appealing story, great gameplay w/ lots of choices, combat challenge, good soundrack, wonderful graphics, etc. I think AC will be successful . Just my opinion
My perspectives & experience w/ AC will not be others & I respect & understand that others see AC very differently, the issue is, how does Ubi resolve this so they keep more players

cawatrooper9
08-27-2018, 04:18 PM
Related to the topic, apparently Serge Hascoet, Ubisoft Chief Creative Officer, recently had an interview with Game Informer (https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/9apcng/gameinformers_interview_with_ubisoft_chief/) in which he detailed some of his vision for the series, as well as a glimpse into the creative process.

strigoi1958
08-27-2018, 08:34 PM
It is always difficult (especially for me as someone with no interest in modern day) to understand what is happening in games (or stories) that start mid way then later on go back to the beginning. It's possible the whole of the Modern day is going to be retold but better as the series goes forward from here. I know it is difficult to be patient when for years I have seen people asking for more MD asking for answers to questions AC has asked but never answered.

Although MD does not interest me, I have always been against separating it from the historical game because both are dependant of the other.. neither really makes sense without the other.

Game wise... I think Origins took a bold step in a new direction, it has rejuvenated AC and brought in new players... I had feared that AC might have ended up like other franchises that just stopped... in which case, nobody would have got either historical or MD gameplay... at least now hope exists. I hope MD appears soon (although I hope it is not too intrusive for me ;) ) and I hope it can be introduced in a way that makes everyone happy... I know there were some really excellent suggestions for ways to make MD more integral to the game... I even suggested We were sent on missions in history following artefacts to the MD then collecting them to build 1st CIV machines) it would tie MD and historical parts together perfectly for me.

FlyingMan78
08-28-2018, 06:26 AM
I can't speak for others but I don't glorify change for change's sake at all. I genuinely like the direction they're taking & think it benefits AC in the long run as the gaming world evolves and I have to wonder if devs themselves are wanting to close out the phase of having to plot & write the scripting for this content?

I admit that even tho I'm an early AC fan, this whole Isu/Juno/MD Lore pretty much eludes me for different reasons that I'll spell out here since it's a more appropriate topic to elaborate in.
1. I generally have a short retention span... I have to REALLY be interested in something to put the focus into retaining/learning what I've seen or heard. (don't know why). When I am deeply interested in something, it's not an issue at all.
2. I haven't played AC1, so never started at the very beginning where foundations were laid (don't know if it's necessary for proper understanding?)
3. What I did play of it in Ezio's trilogy mostly confused me. I do understand the Animus aspect pretty well & POE some. I also disliked Desmond for some reason (so that didn't help my lack of priority w/ MD).
4. My priority in AC & most all games is gameplay, not bits of narratives that I view more as a side story/side content. The parts I loved in my first AC experience were playing as Ezio so that's where my focus is. That's NOT to say that I don't want a good story/plot either. Story is very important.
5. I tend to forget many details of the previous game a year or 2 later at next release, so alot gets lost there too.

This, this and this. You're so full of wisdom, ProdiGurl! :D. Seriously, cliffhangers work in TV episodes because of the short span till the next week episode. In movies and games (i.e. Marvel movies, AC games in this case), I can't be bothered to remember what happened 1-3 years ago when the last game/movie released. With the first games, from AC 1 to Revelations, I used to play the previous ones sequentially in the 2-3 months before Ubi released the new game. With every new game released since then, I stopped bothering, I just focused in the gameplay and the fun every one brought me.

strigoi1958
08-28-2018, 10:15 AM
Originally Posted by ProdiGurl Go to original post (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php?p=13654223#post13654223)
I can't speak for others but I don't glorify change for change's sake at all. I genuinely like the direction they're taking & think it benefits AC in the long run as the gaming world evolves and I have to wonder if devs themselves are wanting to close out the phase of having to plot & write the scripting for this content?

I admit that even tho I'm an early AC fan, this whole Isu/Juno/MD Lore pretty much eludes me for different reasons that I'll spell out here since it's a more appropriate topic to elaborate in.
1. I generally have a short retention span... I have to REALLY be interested in something to put the focus into retaining/learning what I've seen or heard. (don't know why). When I am deeply interested in something, it's not an issue at all.
2. I haven't played AC1, so never started at the very beginning where foundations were laid (don't know if it's necessary for proper understanding?)
3. What I did play of it in Ezio's trilogy mostly confused me. I do understand the Animus aspect pretty well & POE some. I also disliked Desmond for some reason (so that didn't help my lack of priority w/ MD).
4. My priority in AC & most all games is gameplay, not bits of narratives that I view more as a side story/side content. The parts I loved in my first AC experience were playing as Ezio so that's where my focus is. That's NOT to say that I don't want a good story/plot either. Story is very important.
5. I tend to forget many details of the previous game a year or 2 later at next release, so alot gets lost there too.




This, this and this. You're so full of wisdom, ProdiGurl! https://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/biggrin.png. Seriously, cliffhangers work in TV episodes because of the short span till the next week episode. In movies and games (i.e. Marvel movies, AC games in this case), I can't be bothered to remember what happened 1-3 years ago when the last game/movie released. With the first games, from AC 1 to Revelations, I used to play the previous ones sequentially in the 2-3 months before Ubi released the new game. With every new game released since then, I stopped bothering, I just focused in the gameplay and the fun every one brought me.


@Flyingman78

Like you I totally agree with Prodigurl, to me games are about fun and I get that from the gameplay. It is just I have learned over the years on this forum that others place a lot of emphasis on the narrative and get a big percentage of their enjoyment from that... the trouble is Ubisoft did such an incredible job of creating a gripping, twisting, devious, sub plot with MD and the 1st Civ that it aroused peoples curiosity, Ubi then left teasers with hidden meanings and added plot twists that would raise questions, debates and leave people hungry for any tiny scrap of information. It was like reading a mystery action thriller book that is so good you cannot put it down then halfway through the book all the rest of the pages are missing.

So for years people here have been asking, begging.... demanding MD to continue... if not just for continuance at least a conclusion so they can finally scratch that itch that has been driving them crazy for years.

I enjoy gameplay, I played part of AC1 then didn't play until AC3 and Connor hooked me on the historical side, I immediately bought AC2 ACB and ACR but with no understanding of 1st Civ and MD, Desmond was just someone who kept getting in the way when I wanted to play as an assassin. I think both are intertwined but they are not connected enough for me. I think Ubi could give us puzzles or quests that reward us with a weapon/ xp/ money plus some data that MD fans can unravel. Or as I often suggest, We start in the MD and go back in history to track items to their current location, then we find them.

ProdiGurl
08-28-2018, 10:50 AM
This, this and this. You're so full of wisdom, ProdiGurl! :D. Seriously, cliffhangers work in TV episodes because of the short span till the next week episode. In movies and games (i.e. Marvel movies, AC games in this case), I can't be bothered to remember what happened 1-3 years ago when the last game/movie released. With the first games, from AC 1 to Revelations, I used to play the previous ones sequentially in the 2-3 months before Ubi released the new game. With every new game released since then, I stopped bothering, I just focused in the gameplay and the fun every one brought me.
Well I don't think that's wisdom, just analyzing why I have issues w/ some parts of AC & you can relate to some of it - I'm relieved that I'm not the only one around here =) .
You brought up a great example w/ Cliffhangers & the relation to TV vs. game release 1-2 yrs later. Imo, you can't just do a quick recap of all that from AC1 to catch people up much less understand or connect interest with it.
But that's exactly it. & it's confusing as it is - I didn't understand anything that was said in the 1st Civ part in an Origins pyramid - most likely becuz I already didn't understand previous material & forgot all of it by now.

Everything Strigoi said up there is same for me too. I don't care for it, but MD is integral to AC & why we're reliving Assassin's memories - so please figure a way to bring interest in it or wrap it up - give it a proper send-off for fans. Odyssey is a good place to take a definitive direction on this content. I do respect that fans have been following these bread crumbs that have been left.
I think it would be easier catching future players up to MD Lore than Isu . There was about 15 min. of it in Origins. It's great for people who get it, but not if you don't.... :nonchalance:
Just for reference


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXkG4ydkfMk

joelsantos24
08-28-2018, 12:03 PM
I can't speak for others but I don't glorify change for change's sake at all. I genuinely like the direction they're taking & think it benefits AC in the long run as the gaming world evolves and I have to wonder if devs themselves are wanting to close out the phase of having to plot & write the scripting for this content?

I admit that even tho I'm an early AC fan, this whole Isu/Juno/MD Lore pretty much eludes me for different reasons that I'll spell out here since it's a more appropriate topic to elaborate in.
1. I generally have a short retention span... I have to REALLY be interested in something to put the focus into retaining/learning what I've seen or heard. (don't know why). When I am deeply interested in something, it's not an issue at all.
2. I haven't played AC1, so never started at the very beginning where foundations were laid (don't know if it's necessary for proper understanding?)
3. What I did play of it in Ezio's trilogy mostly confused me. I do understand the Animus aspect pretty well & POE some. I also disliked Desmond for some reason (so that didn't help my lack of priority w/ MD).
4. My priority in AC & most all games is gameplay, not bits of narratives that I view more as a side story/side content. The parts I loved in my first AC experience were playing as Ezio so that's where my focus is. That's NOT to say that I don't want a good story/plot either. Story is very important.
5. I tend to forget many details of the previous game a year or 2 later at next release, so alot gets lost there too.

As for Ubi's direction relating to gamers who haven't played many AC's, they'd know even less... or care.... & I admit that some of that is on Ubi devs in the way this Lore has been presented. Piecing it out & making it extremely complex & confusing has made it feel like it's breaking immersion to the main game rather than an intricate part of AC.
MD is just a blurb of essentially the same thing as the game before it. There's very little interesting story to it w/ the characters themselves. Lack of connection to them. Even tho I disliked Desmond, they did at least make it more of a story in Brotherhood that took my interest. The Subject 16 thing was interesting (but confusing too).
At least that's how I've perceive it in my experience. So there's that. (Probly #6 = Ubi's presentation of this content in general that leads to some lack of interest/understanding of it).
Either go all in & make it spectacular or tie it up & end it bcuz it isn't helping any fans.

Last thing, I've been going thru alot of older AC walkthru's - one popular youtube gamer was narrating & essentially said he didn't care much for ______ (previous few games) due to lack of real connection or interest in the characters themselves. So imo, the protagonist is vital to any AC game bcuz I feel the same way. The 2 character's I've felt the closest bonds with, happen to be my favorite AC games: Ezio's trilogy & Bayek's Origins.
So if they do fade out this part of Lore, if they can create strong likeable characters, appealing story, great gameplay w/ lots of choices, combat challenge, good soundrack, wonderful graphics, etc. I think AC will be successful . Just my opinion
My perspectives & experience w/ AC will not be others & I respect & understand that others see AC very differently, the issue is, how does Ubi resolve this so they keep more players

I honestly don't see the shift towards the context of "games as service", as a positive move/change for the industry. Some companies, such as Ubisoft, EA and Activision, propagate the lie that players don't really care about stories or story-based games. If that was so, the most popular, best-selling games wouldn't be mostly narrative-driven. Additionally, if that wasn't a lie, then a story-oriented game wouldn't sell more than 5 million copies during the first few weeks or month after release. The vastly accepted reason for this shift, is continuous revenue/monetisation. Investing in good, insightful stories and narratives is costful. Turning the game into a service, will lower that cost and increase revenue. Ultimately, the companies are responsible for their own practices and proceedings, and if services are their choice of focus, then that's their prerogative.

In my experience, though, most players I've come across, actually prefer games with interesting, compelling and complex narrative structures. The AC series (and community) is no exception. More importantly, if that wasn't the case within the AC community, then the typically shallow, disjointed AC storylines wouldn't always be the focus of tremendous criticism and reproach. Changing the genre of the series from a typical action game towards a service-RPG, isn't going to do any good to it's narrative. It really can't, as I explained in my previous post.

But, on the other hand, there's never true unanimity in a community. Some players want different things. Ubisoft seems to believe that many fans didn't really care about the meta-story, which is why they actually elected to neglect that perspective, past Desmond's death. That's true, many fans didn't really care about it. But again, in my experience, it really wasn't that simple. If the community didn't care about the meta-story, then the Desmond's death/Juno debacle wouldn't have become so controversial.

Whether or not these changes in direction will benefit the series in the mid or long-term, I really don't know. But I'm inclined to believe it will damage the series and further divide the community. As people from CD Projekt Red have said, "the best PR for you company and games, is keeping your community happy". I don't think these changes will keep the community unifiedly happy. It's clearly an attempt to attract new audiences, and that's great, but it sacrifices too much of the series' identity and alienates many of the long-term fans, as it's happening now. Developing or evolving the series, shouldn't have to come at the price of compromising it's identity and alienating it's fans. Or at least, that's my opinion.

ProdiGurl
08-28-2018, 01:26 PM
I honestly don't see the shift towards the context of "games as service", as a positive move/change for the industry. Some companies, such as Ubisoft, EA and Activision, propagate the lie that players don't really care about stories or story-based games. If that was so, the most popular, best-selling games wouldn't be mostly narrative-driven. Additionally, if that wasn't a lie, then a story-oriented game wouldn't sell more than 5 million copies during the first few weeks or month after release. The vastly accepted reason for this shift, is continuous revenue/monetisation. Investing in good, insightful stories and narratives is costful. Turning the game into a service, will lower that cost and increase revenue. Ultimately, the companies are responsible for their own practices and proceedings, and if services are their choice of focus, then that's their prerogative.
.
Maybe you can define what you mean by "story". I've said repeatedly that Story is important if not vital to AC and most all games that aren't arcade or maybe strategy based?
When I say story, I mean the actual story we're following. Not any of the Lore content. If they're going to make AC even more shallow & linear, then that doesn't make me happy. If they start dropping Isu content & making MD brief but more meaningful & interesting, I'm good with that.
ANY business has to focus on income & investment... I won't fault them for that & anyone who's owned one knows that. It's a matter of wise, timely decisions to make everyone happy & those are not always in sync.
You make enough mistakes in this business, you're gone pretty quickly if you aren't careful.


Whether or not these changes in direction will benefit the series in the mid or long-term, I really don't know. But I'm inclined to believe it will damage the series and further divide the community. As people from CD Projekt Red have said, "the best PR for you company and games, is keeping your community happy". I don't think these changes will keep the community unifiedly happy. It's clearly an attempt to attract new audiences, and that's great, but it sacrifices too much of the series' identity and alienates many of the long-term fans, as it's happening now. Developing or evolving the series, shouldn't have to come at the price of compromising it's identity and alienating it's fans. Or at least, that's my opinion.
Ok, but what % of this Community care most about Lore ? I mentioned that before.
This is a decade past the first game... Gamers & gaming are changing in alot of ways... for all I know, they may be wrong going the RPG & suffering Lore route but then as time continues on (and imo, we're already at this point), it's those newer players that haven't been following since AC 1 & Ezio's trilogy who don't have the same Lore bent that others have. That's the bottom line of this.
To many, AC is about gameplay of an accomplished Assassin & his expeditions. To others, it's all the Lore plus the Assassin. I just don't know what they're going to do but I don't believe AC will suffer with less Lore focus - esp. if they handle it properly.
Without awesome gameplay or a beloved Character, Lore won't save the game. But great gameplay w/ a great character does save a game becuz it's at least fun & exciting to play even w/ less Lore or narrative. (in my opinion).
In fact I think we already see this proving out w/ the rave success of Origins & even Black Flag where Lore was weakening.

joelsantos24
08-28-2018, 02:03 PM
Maybe you can define what you mean by "story". I've said repeatedly that Story is important if not vital to AC and most all games that aren't arcade or maybe strategy based?
When I say story, I mean the actual story we're following. Not any of the Lore content. If they're going to make AC even more shallow & linear, then that doesn't make me happy. If they start dropping Isu content & making MD brief but more meaningful & interesting, I'm good with that.
ANY business has to focus on income & investment... I won't fault them for that & anyone who's owned one knows that. It's a matter of wise, timely decisions to make everyone happy & those are not always in sync.
You make enough mistakes in this business, you're gone pretty quickly if you aren't careful.
I meant it in the same way you describe it. But I don't think you can dissociate the story from the mythology, since the former is a vital part of the latter. I don't understand your association between linear and shallow. What exactly do you mean? Linear games are shallow? I think there's a grave misunderstanding going on here. Prince of Persia was a linear series. Uncharted is a linear series. The Last of Us is a linear game (and soon to be a series). Would you call them shallow games? Linear games are linear, precisely because their focus is absolutely on the story and the character development. AC, on the other hand, is an example of a more shallow game, because, by definition, open world games don't allow for considerable story and character development.


Ok, but what % of this Community care most about Lore ? I mentioned that before.
This is a decade past the first game... Gamers & gaming are changing in alot of ways... for all I know, they may be wrong going the RPG & suffering Lore route but then as time continues on (and imo, we're already at this point), it's those newer players that haven't been following since AC 1 & Ezio's trilogy who don't have the same Lore bent that others have. That's the bottom line of this.
To many, AC is about gameplay of an accomplished Assassin & his expeditions. To others, it's all the Lore plus the Assassin. I just don't know what they're going to do but I don't believe AC will suffer with less Lore focus - esp. if they handle it properly.
Without awesome gameplay or a beloved Character, Lore won't save the game. But great gameplay w/ a great character does save a game becuz it's at least fun & exciting to play even w/ less Lore or narrative. (in my opinion).
In fact I think we already see this proving out w/ the rave success of Origins & even Black Flag where Lore was weakening.
I don't think it has anything to do with percentages. That's the point. It's about making the community happy, not just the (hypothetically) most significant portion. Some players may prefer more appealing gameplay, others may rather have an insightful, complex story and narrative (with a strong, coherent mythology). Essentially, you don't have to choose one or another, since the games can have both. It's about making your entire community happy and fulfilled.

Right now, you have many fans feeling displeased and alienated, with these radical and dramatic changes implemented by Ubisoft. Another part of the community is welcoming those changes. That's fine. Nonetheless, Ubisoft didn't need to alienate part of it's community. They've done it before and very much dramatically, with Conviction, by "selling" it exclusively to Microsoft. Then Blacklist was released on all platforms and sell even less than Conviction. Most of SC's Playstation community members were basically good on their word and left for good. Ubisoft apparently dosn't mind alienating their fans, and this doesn't seem to change, unfortunately.

ModernWaffle
08-28-2018, 02:03 PM
I don't think these changes will keep the community unifiedly happy. It's clearly an attempt to attract new audiences, and that's great, but it sacrifices too much of the series' identity and alienates many of the long-term fans, as it's happening now. Developing or evolving the series, shouldn't have to come at the price of compromising it's identity and alienating it's fans

I would also say it's confusing that Origins seemed to have been the semi-reboot of the franchise which was to promote a compromise between respecting older fans and welcoming newer ones. In identity, Odyssey feels like a project that has a vastly different vision than Origins and the idea of a prequel, prequel is also off putting in any consideration of seeing Odyssey as a proper successor to Origins.

So whilst I may have taken a greater liking to Odyssey under different circumstances, I predict I won't be able to really enjoy it until I understand why they didn't just make a direct sequel to Origins when it was positively received by a majority of the existing fanbase?

joelsantos24
08-28-2018, 02:19 PM
I would also say it's confusing that Origins seemed to have been the semi-reboot of the franchise which was to promote a compromise between respecting older fans and welcoming newer ones. In identity, Odyssey feels like a project that has a vastly different vision than Origins and the idea of a prequel, prequel is also off putting in any consideration of seeing Odyssey as a proper successor to Origins.

So whilst I may have taken a greater liking to Odyssey under different circumstances, I predict I won't be able to really enjoy it until I understand why they didn't just make a direct sequel to Origins when it was positively received by a majority of the existing fanbase?
I totally agree.

The direct sequel to Origins, was the logical move. Many fans were foreseeing or predicting it. That wasn't a fluke. You could feel there was (or is) ample room for expansion of that narrative. On the other hand, I agree with many fans, that say that the annual, regular, release schedule for the AC series, prevents any constructive criticism or feedback from being consistently absorbed. By the time the company knows the overall reception to a game, and the fans' acceptance or rejection of the different elements or features, the next game is nearly done and too far in the production cycle, for any meaningful changes to be implemented.

Olympus2018
08-28-2018, 07:00 PM
Linear games are linear, precisely because their focus is absolutely on the story and the character development. AC, on the other hand, is an example of a more shallow game, because, by definition, open world games don't allow for considerable story and character development.



Witcher 3 is an open world game... It does allow for considerable story and character development. Linear games are not realistic from a narrative point of view because in reality you can roam everywhere (almost). Open world RPG is the way forward. IF Witcher 3 with its 350 quests could gain so many awards and positive criticism, I don't see why Odyssey won't do the same. I can't believe I am the only one here who thinks that Origins and Odyssey are the future of AC, not Black Flag or Revelations. This is not 2007 anymore.

FlyingMan78
08-28-2018, 07:06 PM
I can't believe I am the only one here who thinks that Origins and Odyssey are the future of AC, not Black Flag or Revelations. This is not 2007 anymore.

Don't feel lonely, pal, you're not. Some people are just stuck in the past. (Get it?)

RVSage
08-28-2018, 07:35 PM
Related to the topic, apparently Serge Hascoet, Ubisoft Chief Creative Officer, recently had an interview with Game Informer (https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/9apcng/gameinformers_interview_with_ubisoft_chief/) in which he detailed some of his vision for the series, as well as a glimpse into the creative process.

Interesting article, let's see how things go from here . His comments on multiplayer mode is interesting , but not for me, bayek and aya in other mediums will be cool to follow as well

Olympus2018
08-28-2018, 07:37 PM
Don't feel lonely, pal, you're not. Some people are just stuck in the past. (Get it?)

I know, right? AC had to evolve so much in order to become a proper open world game. Maybe some people dislike the ancient settings of Origins and Odyssey and instead of admitting that, they complain about irrelevant things. Would they dismiss Odyssey if the setting was Paris or London and the map was in a scale of 1:3?

TaleraRis
08-29-2018, 03:51 AM
Whether or not these changes in direction will benefit the series in the mid or long-term, I really don't know. But I'm inclined to believe it will damage the series and further divide the community. As people from CD Projekt Red have said, "the best PR for you company and games, is keeping your community happy". I don't think these changes will keep the community unifiedly happy. It's clearly an attempt to attract new audiences, and that's great, but it sacrifices too much of the series' identity and alienates many of the long-term fans, as it's happening now. Developing or evolving the series, shouldn't have to come at the price of compromising it's identity and alienating it's fans. Or at least, that's my opinion.

Well said. I will be sad to walk away from the universe I've been invested in since the beginning - the main games, the side games, the books, the comics, the movies - but if it's no longer recognizable because they chose not to try to find a balance, then why stay? I will leave it to the new players and old players who didn't find those aspects of the identity as important as I did and find something else to invest my attention and wallet in.

I always take a week off work to enjoy the game. I have my week reserved, but I don't have this game pre-ordered yet. And it will be the first since the original that I may not get a special edition of. I don't want to give up completely without experiencing it, but I don't want to support what I'm seeing with a CE, either.

joelsantos24
08-29-2018, 11:29 AM
Well said. I will be sad to walk away from the universe I've been invested in since the beginning - the main games, the side games, the books, the comics, the movies - but if it's no longer recognizable because they chose not to try to find a balance, then why stay? I will leave it to the new players and old players who didn't find those aspects of the identify as important as I did and find something else to invest my attention and wallet in.

I always take a week off work to enjoy the game. I have my week reserved, but I don't have this game pre-ordered yet. And it will be the first since the original that I may not get a special edition of. I don't want to give up completely without experiencing it, but I don't want to support what I'm seeing with a CE, either.
I completely understand, and agree.

It's interesting, how this pathological obsession of Ubisoft's with services, is attracting these new "service fans" to the Forums, calling us negative and unprogressive, for not accepting the changes. You read people say that "linear games are shallow (I still don't understand this association, by the way)", and that "open world games yield character and story development (WTF?)". As if dozens and dozens of hours whilst playing primary missions, secondary missions, completing endless, trivial tasks, collecting artefacts or resources, crafting gear and weapons, simply exploring the world, managing character and gear statistics, etc, doesn't irrevocably (and irreparably) dilute the story, narrative and characters themselves.

I hear things such as "live services are the way to go, because only live services will keep us playing for years to come". As if players don't endlessly replay the games that they love, regardless of not being "live services". Apparently, only "live services" carry replay value (LOOOL). Seriously, though, nothing can keep a player from replaying a game, except themselves, and this replay potential is immeasurably increased, the higher the quality of the storytelling, the more complex, multidimensional and appealing the characters are, the more beautiful the game world is, the more engaging the gameplay is, the better the soundtrack is, etc. Ultimately, the replay value is in the players, not the games.

Do I need to explain why The Last of Us is unanimously regarded as one of the greatest games ever made, and a true masterpiece? Live services won't stay burnt in your memory, only great, epic stories will.

ElderDarklion
08-29-2018, 11:54 AM
At my side I always say same things. Two changes are not good for AC however I think that changes will good for my gameplay. One of them choice dialogue and the other choice gender if they live same life at one scenario. If AC have got corner stones probably one of them that we can't change past only watch and witness it.

1. With choosing dialogue we manipulate time and change the real history at AC Universe and it's soo fantastic but not express me an AC game.

2. And choosing gender. For me it is great. But when thinking it in AC game and they live same life in one story, something dissappears or doesn't fit in my mind. You can say we played it before at Syndicate but at there we didn't play same main missions at story mode only choose our hero for side missions. Not live same life.

Result: I will play AC: Odysses at 2 oct inşAllah. My opinion I will really enjoy it too but probably it won't give me an AC game taste. This game really look fantastic. I love B.C time period and really take my interest, new ability system is good(need evolution yes but need time for it too) and new mercenary system looks great too even it looks alike Shadow of Mordor\War a bit. All in these dilemmas I will play this game not thinking AC allure and Story.

Add: I was also huge dissappointed to hear Juno Story finishing at comics. From AC3 to AC: Origins I was waiting what did Juno plan to our Earth. Hope at least see a cutscene how assassins defeated Juno for years.

ProdiGurl
08-29-2018, 12:32 PM
I completely understand, and agree.

It's interesting, how this pathological obsession of Ubisoft's with services, is attracting these new "service fans" to the Forums, calling us negative and unprogressive, for not accepting the changes. You read people say that "linear games are shallow (I still don't understand this association, by the way)", and that "open world games yield character and story development (WTF?)". As if dozens and dozens of hours whilst playing primary missions, secondary missions, completing endless, trivial tasks, collecting artefacts or resources, crafting gear and weapons, simply exploring the world, managing character and gear statistics, etc, doesn't irrevocably (and irreparably) dilute the story, narrative and characters themselves.

I hear things such as "live services are the way to go, because only live services will keep us playing for years to come". As if players don't endlessly replay the games that they love, regardless of not being "live services". Apparently, only "live services" carry replay value (LOOOL). Seriously, though, nothing can keep a player from replaying a game, except themselves, and this replay potential is immeasurably increased, the higher the quality of the storytelling, the more complex, multidimensional and appealing the characters are, the more beautiful the game world is, the more engaging the gameplay is, the better the soundtrack is, etc. Ultimately, the replay value is in the players, not the games.

Do I need to explain why The Last of Us is unanimously regarded as one of the greatest games ever made, and a true masterpiece? Live services won't stay burnt in your memory, only great, epic stories will.
Live services were brought up years ago as the future of gaming . . eventually it was going to arrive. One of the problems with it is for those of us who have slower internet speeds, live services are not possible or are very limited. So maybe these companies should try to help deal w/ the internet issue.

Even so, I have no interest in most any of it. I don't want to do competition online, I game at my own pace. I've never purchased DLC or gotten a game app for my fone (Dead Island & Fallout 76 are very tempting tho)... I'll be playing SP on my Xbox & that's the extent of it.
Most AC fans were wanting Ubi to end annual releases anyway for different reasons - so they won't release a new game in 2019 (maybe an extensive expansion to OD? I dunno) - but if they start releasing every 2 yrs. it shouldn't be any problem other than AC directional changes for us - like them or not. So far the Odyssey changes are NOT a game killer for me.
We have 11 yrs worth of games we can replay - that's a good thing!.

I think Live Services can be 'burnt into your memory'... this goes to personal preferences. If people enjoy more live interaction, they're meeting new people & creating memories of gaming with others and still playing the game in a way they enjoy. That stuff is subjective to individuals.

joelsantos24
08-29-2018, 01:08 PM
Live services were brought up years ago as the future of gaming . . eventually it was going to arrive. One of the problems with it is for those of us who have slower internet speeds, live services are not possible or are very limited. So maybe these companies should try to help deal w/ the internet issue.

Even so, I have no interest in most any of it. I don't want to do competition online, I game at my own pace. I've never purchased DLC or gotten a game app for my fone (Dead Island & Fallout 76 are very tempting tho)... I'll be playing SP on my Xbox & that's the extent of it.
Most AC fans were wanting Ubi to end annual releases anyway for different reasons - so they won't release a new game in 2019 (maybe an extensive expansion to OD? I dunno) - but if they start releasing every 2 yrs. it shouldn't be any problem other than AC directional changes for us - like them or not. So far the Odyssey changes are NOT a game killer for me.
We have 11 yrs worth of games we can replay - that's a good thing!.
We, apparently, have extremely polarising ideals on gaming. That's cool, though. We can agree to disagree.

Anyway, to elaborate just a bit more on the topic, that's not really the future of gaming, per se. We don't have that on Playstation. Moreover, Playstation doesn't want that for us, so they have a great commitment towards epic, staggering, single player, story-based, narrative-driven experiences. That's what Playstation fans mostly want, unmistakably.

The last interview of Ubisoft's CCO, Hascoet, kind of put a defining nail on the coffin, so to speak. At least, in my opinion. They have no interest in the stories, narrative or the characters. Their focus is merely and fundamentally on more shallow variables, such as the open worlds and the historical settings/backgrounds. This tells me that things are very unlikely to improve, from the current state of the series. That's too bad, I suppose.


I think Live Services can be 'burnt into your memory'... this goes to personal preferences. If people enjoy more live interaction, they're meeting new people & creating memories of gaming with others and still playing the game in a way they enjoy. That stuff is subjective to individuals.
We're talking about personal views and ideas, so, obviously, it's very much subjective, I totally agree with you. And that's fine. Variability and plurality are extremely important. With that being said, though, had you played The Last of Us or Uncharted (but mostly The Last of Us), I risk saying that you'd have a very different opinion. ;)

strigoi1958
08-29-2018, 08:33 PM
At my side I always say same things. Two changes are not good for AC however I think that changes will good for my gameplay. One of them choice dialogue and the other choice gender if they live same life at one scenario. If AC have got corner stones probably one of them that we can't change past only watch and witness it.

1. With choosing dialogue we manipulate time and change the real history at AC Universe and it's soo fantastic but not express me an AC game.

2. And choosing gender. For me it is great. But when thinking it in AC game and they live same life in one story, something dissappears or doesn't fit in my mind. You can say we played it before at Syndicate but at there we didn't play same main missions at story mode only choose our hero for side missions. Not live same life.

Result: I will play AC: Odysses at 2 oct inşAllah. My opinion I will really enjoy it too but probably it won't give me an AC game taste. This game really look fantastic. I love B.C time period and really take my interest, new ability system is good(need evolution yes but need time for it too) and new mercenary system looks great too even it looks alike Shadow of Mordor\War a bit. All in these dilemmas I will play this game not thinking AC allure and Story.

Add: I was also huge dissappointed to hear Juno Story finishing at comics. From AC3 to AC: Origins I was waiting what did Juno plan to our Earth. Hope at least see a cutscene how assassins defeated Juno for years.

+1 Totally agree.

I really like games where there is a choice of dialogue, especially if what we say can change the way npc's react to us. :)

As for Gender yes, give us all lots of customisation.... hair, clothes, gender and size. I really enjoyed playing as Evie in Syndicate, but I think Ubi could have made the gender differences both positive and negative... Evie could have got through small gaps that Jacob was too big to fit, Evie could have flirted to draw enemies to a quiet place to kill silently.... Jacob could have been stronger and opened doors that Evie could not... I like the thought of having different gender for our Assassins, but if they are both as strong as each other and both have exactly the same abilities, then it does not make much difference. Ubi made a good start by having Jacob and Evie have slightly different skills but it could go further.

ElderDarklion
08-29-2018, 09:57 PM
@ strigoi1958

I hope you will play so many good games with your new monitor-TV. It must be soo big. You are really crazy Big Brother. And hope you will give the best choice at gpu choice.

After good wishes I totally agree with your gender idea that devs can improve with Syndicate gender skill dynamics and not make a canon gender. With different abilities choosing gender is more interesting and like playing a new game.

+ You always see the positive sides. Really good to see you again Big Brother.

ProdiGurl
08-29-2018, 10:11 PM
+1 Totally agree.

I really like games where there is a choice of dialogue, especially if what we say can change the way npc's react to us. :)

As for Gender yes, give us all lots of customisation.... hair, clothes, gender and size. I really enjoyed playing as Evie in Syndicate, but I think Ubi could have made the gender differences both positive and negative... Evie could have got through small gaps that Jacob was too big to fit, Evie could have flirted to draw enemies to a quiet place to kill silently.... Jacob could have been stronger and opened doors that Evie could not... I like the thought of having different gender for our Assassins, but if they are both as strong as each other and both have exactly the same abilities, then it does not make much difference. Ubi made a good start by having Jacob and Evie have slightly different skills but it could go further.
YES! That would'v been great!
She did seem to be quicker/faster than Jacob, but that was about it. Great ideas.

DA SHIZZLE IG
08-30-2018, 01:41 PM
Story driven Action adventure to weird RPG's made in important time periods with irrelevant story lines that lead to nothing. "OH LOOK, HERE'S A PIECE OF EDEN GUYS......IT'S STILL ASSASSINS CREED:rolleyes::) :) ;) Stay with us core fans, stay with us!!! we.....we've got modern day tooooooo!:cool:".

joelsantos24
08-30-2018, 03:43 PM
Story driven Action adventure to weird RPG's made in important time periods with irrelevant story lines that lead to nothing. "OH LOOK, HERE'S A PIECE OF EDEN GUYS......IT'S STILL ASSASSINS CREED:rolleyes::) :) ;) Stay with us core fans, stay with us!!! we.....we've got modern day tooooooo!:cool:".
Ahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!

That's so accurate! :cool:

DA SHIZZLE IG
08-30-2018, 11:25 PM
Assassin's creed: Battle Royale
Assassin's creed: Zombies

ProdiGurl
08-31-2018, 12:09 AM
>> insert TROLL gif <<

DA SHIZZLE IG
08-31-2018, 12:27 AM
>> insert TROLL gif <<

It's called sarcasm with a little humor, not trolling. Instead of an unnecessary drawn out post. This says everything that needs to be said. Sorry if it went over your head, i'm basically saying it's going down hill and they're following trends. Instead of staying true to the series. This is what direction the series seems to be going in.

I'm blunt and straight to the point. I call it like I see it. Sorry if i'm too aggressive or not polite enough for you.

ProdiGurl
08-31-2018, 12:31 AM
Sarcasm is done within discussion... your posts aren't anything but mocking & ridiculing. Trolling.
Call it whatever you want.

DA SHIZZLE IG
08-31-2018, 12:52 AM
Sarcasm is done within discussion... your posts aren't anything but mocking & ridiculing. Trolling. Call it whatever you want.
I'm sorry.

THIS IS THE GREATEST ASSASSINS CREED EVER!!!!!! I can't wait to buy all 100 editions and get into all the BIG BATTLES, romances, and make tons of choices that change history and the persons memories. Everyone asked for AC to be turned into an RPG, no iconic hidden blade/assassins outfit, and completely remove the creed/brotherhood/assassins from the game! Ubisoft listened to the community and now we have a masterpiece, GOOD JOB UBISOFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They actually managed to out do the best 2 AC games in the series(ACU, ACS) with this one.

This is definitely gonna outsell Origins. This is gonna kill the witcher 3!!!! It's not gonna just die, it's gonna get murdered!!!! I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!

Olympus2018
08-31-2018, 08:42 AM
Now we know who the trolls are. It's more than one, apparently. One trolls and the other one applauds the troll!

ProdiGurl
08-31-2018, 09:17 AM
Now we know who the trolls are. It's more than one, apparently. One trolls and the other one applauds the troll!
It ended up being what I thought, an angry 'adult' throwing a tantrum becuz their beloved game is changing after a decade. I do get it and empathize to a point, but I don't expect adults to act like little kids who don't get their way. Explains alot of Societal problems out there if we aren't any more mature than petulant children when it comes to our games.
I love & enjoy mine like the next person but get a grip and lighten up.

DA SHIZZLE IG
08-31-2018, 09:38 AM
It ended up being what I thought, an angry 'adult' throwing a tantrum becuz their beloved game is changing after a decade. I do get it and empathize to a point, but I don't expect adults to act like little kids who don't get their way. Explains alot of Societal problems out there if we aren't any more mature than petulant children when it comes to our games.
I love & enjoy mine like the next person but get a grip and lighten up.
You're 100% right, people do need to "lighten up". Don't need anymore "PETULANT" children criticisms of this game because ubisoft turned it into something it's not....:rolleyes: GREATEST ASSASSIN'S CREED EVER!!!!! All these long time fans need to just accept the horrible decisions ubisoft has made or just stay silent!!! They're just a bunch of adults acting like little kids who didn't get their way. Meanwhile those of us who absolutely love this game are mature adults who make sense and are true core fans of the series. I wish all these day 1 core fans who made this series a hit. Would stop their criticism and disappear. Take modern day along with them, who cares about that anymore.

ProdiGurl
08-31-2018, 09:57 AM
You're 100% right, people do need to "lighten up". Don't need anymore "PETULANT" children criticisms of this game because ubisoft turned it into something it's not....:rolleyes: GREATEST ASSASSIN'S CREED EVER!!!!! All these long time fans need to just accept the horrible decisions ubisoft has made or just stay silent!!! They're just a bunch of adults acting like little kids who didn't get their way. Meanwhile those of us who absolutely love this game are mature adults who make sense and are true core fans of the series. I wish all these day 1 core fans who made this series a hit. Would stop their criticism and disappear. Take modern day along with them, who cares about that anymore.
But you weren't just criticizing it w/ constructive explanation, you were Trolling (and still are) - also mocking players who don't abhor the changes as much as you do with complete over-exaggerations.
Not sure how we're calling this the "GREATEST ASSASSIN'S CREED EVER!!!!!" when it hasn't even released yet. Which also means you can't call it a bad game yet since you have no idea either. None of us do. Shouldn't have to explain this.


.

Olympus2018
08-31-2018, 10:59 AM
You're 100% right, people do need to "lighten up". Don't need anymore "PETULANT" children criticisms of this game because ubisoft turned it into something it's not....:rolleyes: GREATEST ASSASSIN'S CREED EVER!!!!! All these long time fans need to just accept the horrible decisions ubisoft has made or just stay silent!!! They're just a bunch of adults acting like little kids who didn't get their way. Meanwhile those of us who absolutely love this game are mature adults who make sense and are true core fans of the series. I wish all these day 1 core fans who made this series a hit. Would stop their criticism and disappear. Take modern day along with them, who cares about that anymore.

That's the core of the problem. You think you represent most gamers, yet I agree with Ubisoft and I don't work for them. Sales will prove if most gamers think AC is not proper anymore. I am willing to bet you and the fellow from Portugal represent a minority of gamers, not the majority. AC is getting better and better. It is getting bigger, better, more interesting and yes, it does abandon some old elements which were tiresome. The leap of faith could be a pain in the ...... when you couldn't find the right spot to land. They removed it for a reason.

DA SHIZZLE IG
08-31-2018, 11:21 AM
But you weren't just criticizing it w/ constructive explanation, you were Trolling (and still are) - also mocking players who don't abhor the changes as much as you do with complete over-exaggerations.
Not sure how we're calling this the "GREATEST ASSASSIN'S CREED EVER!!!!!" when it hasn't even released yet. Which also means you can't call it a bad game yet since you have no idea either. None of us do. Shouldn't have to explain this.


.


That's the core of the problem. You think you represent most gamers, yet I agree with Ubisoft and I don't work for them. Sales will prove if most gamers think AC is not proper anymore. I am willing to bet you and the fellow from Portugal represent a minority of gamers, not the majority. AC is getting better and better. It is getting bigger, better, more interesting and yes, it does abandon some old elements which were tiresome. The leap of faith could be a pain in the ...... when you couldn't find the right spot to land. They removed it for a reason.
:rolleyes:
Wow at the contradiction in Olympus's post:)

ProdiGurl
08-31-2018, 11:22 AM
^ Not sure what the bold highlighting is supposed to convey?...
I guess 'core fans' can't like AC anymore... I've played ACII to Origins & thought Origins was as good as Ezio's games. & I'm a diehard Ezio fan, so that's saying something.
Not everybody loves all the 'core elements' & obsesses over them as if AC can't evolve and be a great game for more people than just the 2007 purists.

Olympus2018
08-31-2018, 11:30 AM
Everyone likes the word Odyssey, these days. Super Mario Odyssey, Assassin's Creed Odyssey etc. It's become a popular word for video games.

Let's have a look at sales....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2018/08/02/the-best-selling-video-games-and-gaming-hardware-of-june-2018/#196f0185d93c

12-Month Revolving Best-Sellers

1. Call of Duty: WWII
2. NBA 2K18
3. Destiny 2^
4. Madden NFL 18
5. Super Mario Odyssey*
6. Far Cry 5
7. Star Wars: Battlefront II 2017^
8. Grand Theft Auto V
9. Assassin's Creed: Origins
10. God of War 2018


For the 12 month period beginning last June, the top 5 sellers are all titles that launched in 2017. Out of all the top 10 games in this category, only Far Cry 5 (#6) and God of War (#10) launched in 2018.

Although Far Cry 5 sold more copies than Origins, Origins is still in the Top 10, so Ubisoft is doing it right. Without social stealth, the broken "lore", no leap of faith etc. etc. AC series still appeal as much.

joelsantos24
08-31-2018, 11:37 AM
But you weren't just criticizing it w/ constructive explanation, you were Trolling (and still are) - also mocking players who don't abhor the changes as much as you do with complete over-exaggerations.
Not sure how we're calling this the "GREATEST ASSASSIN'S CREED EVER!!!!!" when it hasn't even released yet. Which also means you can't call it a bad game yet since you have no idea either. None of us do. Shouldn't have to explain this.
Well, this escalated quickly... :nonchalance:

I don't agree with the way all of this was conveyed, that's for sure, but I do understand and empathise with his views/feelings on the series. I actually thought his initial post was kind of funny and a change of pace, but that's all.

Moving on with the discussion, though, he does focus on important questions:

- The concerning decrease in prominence of the role of the characters, storylines and narratives;
- The seemingly magical nature of the Animus, with no apparent explanation;
- Two characters having the exact same life and memories;
- The potential damaging effect that multiple options and endings might have on the narrative structure and the mythology;
- The insignificant value and merit now given to Desmond's ultimate sacrifice for mankind;
- The strange possibility of being now able to change the Past and the life paths/choices of others, by simply accessing their memories;
- The rather underwhelming and disappointing conclusion to Juno's narrative, when she was portrayed as the ultimate villain of the series;
(...)

In my opinion, these changes are, indeed, significant (and disturbing) enough to prompt a serious discussion in the community.

ProdiGurl
08-31-2018, 12:09 PM
Well, this escalated quickly... :nonchalance:

I don't agree with the way all of this was conveyed, that's for sure, but I do understand and empathise with his views/feelings on the series. I actually thought his initial post was kind of funny and a change of pace, but that's all.

Moving on with the discussion, though, he does focus on important questions:

- The concerning decrease in prominence of the role of the characters, storylines and narratives;
- The seemingly magical nature of the Animus, with no apparent explanation;
- Two characters having the exact same life and memories;
- The potential damaging effect that multiple options and endings might have on the narrative structure and the mythology;
- The insignificant value and merit now given to Desmond's ultimate sacrifice for mankind;
- The strange possibility of being now able to change the Past and the life paths/choices of others, by simply accessing their memories;
- The rather underwhelming and disappointing conclusion to Juno's narrative, when she was portrayed as the ultimate villain of the series;
(...)

In my opinion, these changes are, indeed, significant (and disturbing) enough to prompt a serious discussion between the community.
Escalation, yes. This was the escalation

Assassin's creed: Battle Royale
Assassin's creed: Zombies
I said nothing before that. I also don't appreciate being insulted as if I can't possibly be an early AC fan becuz I'm not as angry about changes to Lore - and as if I ever said "this is the greatest Assassin's Creed Ever!!!". Then another post continued after this one & it was rudely going after Strigoi in another thread... that's the direction his posts were all going in succession, so I called it out for what it was becoming.

Nobody said this can't be discussed - we've been doing that. A month later, I think we all get the picture & have been discussing it pretty rationally and in fact you've only repeated the list of issues we've already been discussing for weeks. The final outcome is we agree to disagree and ACOD's new direction was in the works 3 yrs ago - that's not changing.

Throwing a tantrum & what I take as insulting other players like me who aren't hating on Ubi/AC isn't anything I appreciate & I will respond to these things

GREATEST ASSASSIN'S CREED EVER!!!!! All these long time fans need to just accept the horrible decisions ubisoft has made or just stay silent!!! They're just a bunch of adults acting like little kids who didn't get their way. Meanwhile those of us who absolutely love this game are mature adults who make sense and are true core fans of the series. I wish all these day 1 core fans who made this series a hit. Would stop their criticism and disappear.
I am one of those long time fans but I don't have to share the same opinions (or to the same degree) and I certainly don't have to accept being mocked/trolled becuz of it.

joelsantos24
08-31-2018, 12:22 PM
Escalation, yes. This was the escalation

I said nothing before that. I also don't appreciate being insulted as if I can't possibly be an early AC fan becuz I'm not as angry about changes to Lore - and as if I ever said "this is the greatest Assassin's Creed Ever!!!". Then another post continued after this one & it was rudely going after Strigoi in another thread... that's the direction his posts were all going in succession, so I called it out for what it was becoming.

Nobody said this can't be discussed - we've been doing that. A month later, I think we all get the picture & have been discussing it pretty rationally and in fact you've only repeated the list of issues we've already been discussing for weeks. The final outcome is we agree to disagree and ACOD's new direction was in the works 3 yrs ago - that's not changing.

Throwing a tantrum & what I take as insulting other players like me who aren't hating on Ubi/AC isn't anything I appreciate & I will respond to these things

I am one of those long time fans but I don't have to share the same opinions (or to the same degree) and I certainly don't have to accept being mocked/trolled becuz of it.
You're absolutely right. I think that, if anyone disregards you, your views or opinions, or if they go farther with actual insults, you should just report the user and add him/her to your ignore list.

Anyway, by the looks of it, this discussion might've just ran it's course, one way or another, so I think I'll take my leave.

ModernWaffle
08-31-2018, 12:25 PM
I am willing to bet you and the fellow from Portugal represent a minority of gamers, not the majority.

I'm not sure about this. Have a look at the recent community discussion page on Reddit, several top comments are expressing notable concerns for Odyssey: https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/9az4s1/community_discussion_assassins_creed_odyssey_post/

This doesn't necessarily represent the majority but there's clearly enough people who are worried about the implications of Odyssey's direction and you'll probably find fluctuating opinions moving from this forum to others. Also, seeing a 'majority consensus' may be misleading because naturally, if anti-Odyssey fans are leaving this forum temporarily until the next installment, it'll look like Odyssey is getting full support when in reality you won't see the actual numbers of fans who are against it.



AC is getting better and better. It is getting bigger, better, more interesting

I'd say this is highly subjective depending on your outlook. For me, it's not getting bigger and better because Odyssey is promoting a world map that is larger than Origins but with fewer new features to be excited for as a large proportion of the game will be composed of previous assets from Origins.

More interesting? Again we'll see but from my standpoint currently I'm skeptical of the branching narrative they're advertising. If you can't write a linear story that makes coherent sense (and I see many people being disappointed by Origins's story), why would you be able to write a story that has multiple narrative paths better?

Olympus2018
08-31-2018, 12:29 PM
I'm not sure about this. Have a look at the recent community discussion page on Reddit, several top comments are expressing notable concerns for Odyssey: https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/9az4s1/community_discussion_assassins_creed_odyssey_post/

This doesn't necessarily represent the majority but there's clearly enough people who are worried about the implications of Odyssey's direction and you'll probably find fluctuating opinions moving from this forum to others. Also, seeing a 'majority consensus' may be misleading because naturally, if anti-Odyssey fans are leaving this forum temporarily until the next installment, it'll look like Odyssey is getting full support when in reality you won't see the actual numbers of fans who are against it.




I'd say this is highly subjective depending on your outlook. For me, it's not getting bigger or better because Odyssey is promoting a world map that is larger than Origins but with fewer new features to be excited for as a large proportion of the game will be composed of previous assets from Origins.

More interesting? Again we'll see but from my standpoint currently I'm skeptical of the branching narrative they're advertising. If you can't write a linear story that makes coherent sense (and I see many people being disappointed by Origins's story), why would you be able to write a story that has multiple narrative paths better?

Bear in mind that only a handful of people who play Origins and will play Odyssey, bother to post anything on these forums. Millions of gamers do not post anything on forums, maybe only on Youtube comment sections?

ProdiGurl
08-31-2018, 12:35 PM
:rolleyes:
Wow at the contradiction in Olympus's post:)

There's really no contradiction at all - you're taking them in a very narrow scope when Olympus is simply saying sales will end up proving OD's acceptance or not.
THEN gives his/her own opinion based upon previous AC games, mainly Origins which kicked off AC changes. If you like Origins and its transitioning AC in another direction, then you can easily say it's getting better. Those who dislike Origins changes may not feel the same way.
But it's true that nobody can say or has said Odyssey is the 'best assassin's Creed ever!" becuz nobody's actually played it yet. But it does look awesome in gameplay clips. =)

ModernWaffle
08-31-2018, 12:39 PM
Bear in mind that only a handful of people who play Origins and will play Odyssey, bother to post anything on these forums. Millions of gamers do not post anything on forums, maybe only on Youtube comment sections?

I mean, that's my point. We don't know what the 'majority opinion' is but going to several different forums I've seen roughly an equal share of optimism and skepticism.

You can interpret that in a lot of ways, but I see that as a matter of concern in itself because I don't often see games that I'd be confident buying on day one having marketing that polorizes its fanbase to this degree.

ElderDarklion
08-31-2018, 12:52 PM
- The concerning decrease in prominence of the role of the characters, storylines and narratives;
- The seemingly magical nature of the Animus, with no apparent explanation;
- Two characters having the exact same life and memories;
- The potential damaging effect that multiple options and endings might have on the narrative structure and the mythology;
- The insignificant value and merit now given to Desmond's ultimate sacrifice for mankind;
- The strange possibility of being now able to change the Past and the life paths/choices of others, by simply accessing their memories;
- The rather underwhelming and disappointing conclusion to Juno's narrative, when she was portrayed as the ultimate villain of the series;
(...)

In my opinion, these changes are, indeed, significant (and disturbing) enough to prompt a serious discussion in the community.

Totally agree. This game will be a very good game but not express me an AC game. We loose many things to reach many people selling new AC games. It's a true way for a company but like you, me and a few of us aren't pleased this way.

I played AC 1 at 2007-2008 when I was 21-22 years old and still playing AC: Origins from it's release date. But have many anxieties about AC narrative for this game. They nearly erase all we know about animus, witnessing real history, one hero- one secret but important life at AC Universe and give us a new one. The new generation love choices, fantastic elements, myhts, RPG games. Many of them play multiplayer games too. So Ubi give a decision in my opinion and combines many popular things under new AC Franchise.

Say again. I will play AC: Odysses without thinking an AC game and enjoy it too much. It's a new era. We accept or not they going to go to this way. But REALLY I miss AC Franchise.

Olympus2018
08-31-2018, 12:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsR7Erfwl6U

100 hours to complete the story once, siding with either Athenians or Spartans.
200 hours to to do both.
XXX hours to explore ALL different dialog options..... or is it XXXX hours in order to combine all choices? This is probably the first time ever, an AC game cannot fully be explored in under 1000 hours. Then, there are DLCs that could be coming up for months.... Add the official statement that the next AC game won't come before 2020..... And then consider the other statement that this game should keep us busy for the next couple of years and yes, fans of AC Origins will definitely be playing this game for XXXX hours, not XXX hours.

ProdiGurl
08-31-2018, 12:56 PM
I think actual gameplay is going to decide players judgment... if gameplay is interesting, fun, graphics amazing, & all the other stuff that makes an enjoyable game, then I think it can survive & do well.
But since 1st Civ & MD are going to be relatively heavy in this game, the next game or 2 may actually be the better Litmus test ? (outside of major RPG direction in OD).

I still think that AC's been suffering in a rut for awhile.... I don't know what previous game sales of each release were in comparison to Origins, but just for me, Origins was absolutely amazing and one of their best games of the Series. I think some evolving was necessary for different reasons.

Olympus2018
08-31-2018, 01:08 PM
I mean, that's my point. We don't know what the 'majority opinion' is but going to several different forums I've seen roughly an equal share of optimism and skepticism.

You can interpret that in a lot of ways, but I see that as a matter of concern in itself because I don't often see games that I'd be confident buying on day one having marketing that polorizes its fanbase to this degree.

Do you know how many Youtube comments made by Witcher fans find Odyssey cool? This game will attract fans from many other games while it will lose only obssesive Leap of Faith jumpers...

ModernWaffle
08-31-2018, 02:54 PM
Do you know how many Youtube comments made by Witcher fans find Odyssey cool? This game will attract fans from many other games while it will lose only obssesive Leap of Faith jumpers...

I wasn't arguing about how many fans Odyssey will lose or gain, it will probably have enough of a player base to mark it as a commercial success like any of the games before it. I'm saying there are ways to innovate and develop games without causing a massive uproar in the community. And as you have pointed out that's what some AC fans are worrying about, whether Odyssey is just trying to imitate other features from other AAA titles without offering enough of its own flair.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're going to rework the fundamentals of a franchise you need a very good reason to be doing this. Downplaying iconic elements of AC to introduce RPG mechanics like character choice and dialogue options is a poor trade off when you realise neither additions are new to the gaming industry as a whole.

MnemonicSyntax
08-31-2018, 02:59 PM
For every person who loves the Witcher and is getting Odyssey because of it, there are ten people who are laughing at Odyssey because it's trying to be like the Witcher and can't hold a candle to it.

See, I can make up stuff too.

(Though it's probably true, CDPR fans are... rabid)

joelsantos24
08-31-2018, 03:25 PM
I wasn't arguing about how many fans Odyssey will lose or gain, it will probably have enough of a player base to mark it as a commercial success like any of the games before it. I'm saying there are ways to innovate and develop games without causing a massive uproar in the community. And as you have pointed out that's what some AC fans are worrying about, whether Odyssey is just trying to imitate other features from other AAA titles without offering enough of its own flair.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're going to rework the fundamentals of a franchise you need a very good reason to be doing this. Downplaying iconic elements of AC to introduce RPG mechanics like character choice and dialogue options is a poor trade off when you realise neither additions are new to the gaming industry as a whole.
Precisely.

strigoi1958
09-01-2018, 06:56 PM
The problem is that as a community we probably are less than 2% of the buyers... so it does not matter if there is some uproar or whether it is 100% of the community in uproar... it is so insignificant that it makes no difference. Whenever we feel strongly about something, it is easy to find some posts on forums that we can relate to and think there is a growing tidal wave of resentment that will compel a game company to sit up, take notice and obey. Unfortunately that's not true.

We may feel we are in the right, morally and for development purposes, because it represents something important to us (and maybe we feel it is important to others, or should be) but there are many things that dictate games development and I would think marketing ranks very high.

Ubi has been going for Decades, I know, not just because I've played Ubi games for 29 years, or because as a Ubi star player they kindly sent me a 30 year commemoration jacket (shameless plug ;) ) but because in all that time I have watched game companies disappear, die out or get taken over and absorbed while I was desperate for the next game in the franchise... which never came :(
Ubi does listen (I know I've said it before) but they do... and all those surveys, all that info from fans gets collected and I'm sure marketing trends are factored in. If all that data says... AC has to evolve or die... then, as much as they might not want to change certain aspects of the game, decreasing sales or market pressure might mean there is no choice... and unfortunately that will impact on thousands of core fans but the influx of new fans may vastly outnumber those who leave.

Changes to the game are never personal, they are not designed to antagonise the fans, they are usually made to keep a franchise going, although we may not like how it changes we should see it as a necessity (even if it does not seem that way to us).

Ubi has not disappeared because they have adapted and evolved. We must do the same if we want to play AC, but we should still give feedback and constructive criticism whenever the need arises.

MnemonicSyntax
09-02-2018, 07:24 AM
The problem is that as a community we probably are less than 2% of the buyers... so it does not matter if there is some uproar or whether it is 100% of the community in uproar... it is so insignificant that it makes no difference. Whenever we feel strongly about something, it is easy to find some posts on forums that we can relate to and think there is a growing tidal wave of resentment that will compel a game company to sit up, take notice and obey. Unfortunately that's not true.

We may feel we are in the right, morally and for development purposes, because it represents something important to us (and maybe we feel it is important to others, or should be) but there are many things that dictate games development and I would think marketing ranks very high.

Ubi has been going for Decades, I know, not just because I've played Ubi games for 29 years, or because as a Ubi star player they kindly sent me a 30 year commemoration jacket (shameless plug ;) ) but because in all that time I have watched game companies disappear, die out or get taken over and absorbed while I was desperate for the next game in the franchise... which never came :(
Ubi does listen (I know I've said it before) but they do... and all those surveys, all that info from fans gets collected and I'm sure marketing trends are factored in. If all that data says... AC has to evolve or die... then, as much as they might not want to change certain aspects of the game, decreasing sales or market pressure might mean there is no choice... and unfortunately that will impact on thousands of core fans but the influx of new fans may vastly outnumber those who leave.

Changes to the game are never personal, they are not designed to antagonise the fans, they are usually made to keep a franchise going, although we may not like how it changes we should see it as a necessity (even if it does not seem that way to us).

Ubi has not disappeared because they have adapted and evolved. We must do the same if we want to play AC, but we should still give feedback and constructive criticism whenever the need arises.

What game were you an SP for?

strigoi1958
09-02-2018, 09:37 PM
Assassins Creed :D

In 2015

MnemonicSyntax
09-02-2018, 11:59 PM
Assassins Creed :D

In 2015

Oh nice.

According to another of your posts you played some of one and then came back to 3. Did you not play 2, Brotherhood or Revelations?

strigoi1958
09-03-2018, 01:00 AM
I've played every one. But in 3 I related to Connor very quickly, I liked the homestead missions as they made Assassins out to be caring even though they are lethal. Then when I went to AC2, ACB and ACR I liked Ezio but the tombs in AC2 almost drove me insane with frustration :) and I guess only part playing 1 then jumping to 3 I missed all the main parts about MD. So even in 2, acb and acr I was focused on the historical part.

MnemonicSyntax
09-03-2018, 02:16 AM
I've played every one. But in 3 I related to Connor very quickly, I liked the homestead missions as they made Assassins out to be caring even though they are lethal. Then when I went to AC2, ACB and ACR I liked Ezio but the tombs in AC2 almost drove me insane with frustration :) and I guess only part playing 1 then jumping to 3 I missed all the main parts about MD. So even in 2, acb and acr I was focused on the historical part.

Nice man. Well of anyone deserves SP it's you.

VestigialLlama4
09-05-2018, 03:05 AM
You know the Juno/Desmond Arc got wrapped up in the Assassin's Creed Uprising Comics.

It was an unsatisfying end there but you had an ending nonetheless.

I think Assassin's Creed is now in a post-Lore era. All that matters is the game. That's actually pretty healthy.

FlyingMan78
09-05-2018, 05:55 AM
...AC has to evolve or die... then, as much as they might not want to change certain aspects of the game, decreasing sales or market pressure might mean there is no choice... and unfortunately that will impact on thousands of core fans but the influx of new fans may vastly outnumber those who leave.

Ubi has not disappeared because they have adapted and evolved. We must do the same if we want to play AC, but we should still give feedback and constructive criticism whenever the need arises.

I think Assassin's Creed is now in a post-Lore era. All that matters is the game. That's actually pretty healthy.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oFzmkkwfOGlzZ0gxi/giphy-downsized.gif

SgtWolf1
09-05-2018, 11:58 PM
Well, I know what you're saying. I've kinda thought, is this really an Assassins Creed game. It could have maybe been released as it's own title. But, I loved Origins and was getting a bit bored with same formula for the AC games before it. Sure I loved Syndicate and Unity. Very pretty games, I just loved the lore. While it may seem a bit of stretch for this one releasing under the AC title, I love the game direction they are going in giving more freedom, enhanced fighting etc. From what I've seen I think this game will be at least as fun as Odyssey, maybe more and when they do go back to more of what I guess we see as traditional AC stories, I think it will just amazing.

So I say, enjoy another great release. It may not scratch the full AC itch, but don't get hung up on that. When they do return to stories where AC universe is further along and well defined with this new open world RPG feel, it will be just ridiculously awesome with a great story and more to do than every before.

TaleraRis
09-06-2018, 03:33 AM
This game will attract fans from many other games while it will lose only obssesive Leap of Faith jumpers...

You know it's possible to be an "obsessive Leap of Faith jumper" and a fan of those other games, right? They offer different experiences. They have different focuses. AC is sacrificing the things that make it unique to implement mainstream elements that you can now find in any basic open world RPG. Those games are fun. But AC has always scratched a different itch. It's taken a little nugget from other games around it and combined those nuggets into an experience only it could provide.

Olympus2018
09-06-2018, 08:41 AM
You know it's possible to be an "obsessive Leap of Faith jumper" and a fan of those other games, right? They offer different experiences. They have different focuses. AC is sacrificing the things that make it unique to implement mainstream elements that you can now find in any basic open world RPG. Those games are fun. But AC has always scratched a different itch. It's taken a little nugget from other games around it and combined those nuggets into an experience only it could provide.

Ubisoft could have kept both social stealth and leaps of faith. You need to ask yourself why they abandoned them. It's called progress. All games evolve and change over time. God of War got a son and moved from Greece to Scandinavia, GTA went online, Far Cry 1 is not the same as Far Cry 5 and even Super Mario Odyssey has significant changes from the first Super Mario game. Do you really want to go through that? Assassins Creed does what all other games do: It does not remain static.

Assassin's Creed is about reconstructing historical events and figures. It's about a conflict between order and chaos, templars vs. assassins, etc. etc. You are totally missing the point like many others.

Ubisoft is the biggest game dev. with European HQ. There are 7 or 6 gaming companies bigger than Ubisoft but they are all based either in America or Asia. None of those companies reconstruct settings and figures like Ubisoft does in the AC franchise. Only recently, Forza Horizon 4 and few other titles tried to reconstruct whole cities with photorealistic accuracy, but even then they only reconstructed the setting (location, buildings etc.) not the characters who lived in a historical period. That is the big picture and once you open your mind, you realize how trivial the leap of faith is.

This is the first time ever, an ancient European civilization is reconstructed within a video game. Titan Quest, God of War or Total War: Rome simply don't count for obvious reasons. These games are totally fictional, there is no archaeological photorealistic accuracy, there are no historical figures and in most cases they are not even open worlds. So, Odyssey sets a new benchmark in video games: Open world RPG combined with history.

joelsantos24
09-06-2018, 11:52 AM
You know it's possible to be an "obsessive Leap of Faith jumper" and a fan of those other games, right? They offer different experiences. They have different focuses. AC is sacrificing the things that make it unique to implement mainstream elements that you can now find in any basic open world RPG. Those games are fun. But AC has always scratched a different itch. It's taken a little nugget from other games around it and combined those nuggets into an experience only it could provide.
I don't even know what that means or where it even came from. I never really cared for the Leap of Faith. In the entire spectrum of what defines and characterises AC, that's just one small variable, probably not even that significant. As for the "how many fans will pass on this game or leave altogether vs. the number of outside players that will start playing" discussion, only time will tell what will be more prominent. Honestly, my money's on this game losing many players, not just due to the drastic and somewhat alienating changes that the developers implemented, but also because the game will be released amongst several other blockbusters (Spider-Man; Shadow of the Tomb Raider; Call of Duty Black Ops 4; Red Dead Redemption 2; Hitman 2; Fallout 76; Battlefield V; etc).

ProdiGurl
09-06-2018, 12:11 PM
Well, I know what you're saying. I've kinda thought, is this really an Assassins Creed game. It could have maybe been released as it's own title. But, I loved Origins and was getting a bit bored with same formula for the AC games before it. Sure I loved Syndicate and Unity. Very pretty games, I just loved the lore. While it may seem a bit of stretch for this one releasing under the AC title, I love the game direction they are going in giving more freedom, enhanced fighting etc. From what I've seen I think this game will be at least as fun as Odyssey, maybe more and when they do go back to more of what I guess we see as traditional AC stories, I think it will just amazing.

So I say, enjoy another great release. It may not scratch the full AC itch, but don't get hung up on that. When they do return to stories where AC universe is further along and well defined with this new open world RPG feel, it will be just ridiculously awesome with a great story and more to do than every before.
I agree with your final assessment - but I don't at all think this is a 'stretch' as an AC Title. There are key elements to what make AC, AC - and while they differ among AC players/fans, the key elements are historic assassins righting wrongs in any era they appear in - with gorgeous graphics & attn. to history & Location.
Besides, at any time, Ubi can pull out any AC Lore, references to previous assassins we've played or use any previous AC content within a new game. Everything they've done isn't automatically gone or erased. It's still going to be Assassin's Creed.

There is no way they could sell this as a separate franchise apart from AC. Apart from some mechanics & underlying lore being shifted to open up new possibilities for the future of the series, they're identical games.
As it was, I think some of the Lore was keeping AC too restrictive & repetitive.


You know it's possible to be an "obsessive Leap of Faith jumper" and a fan of those other games, right? They offer different experiences. They have different focuses. AC is sacrificing the things that make it unique to implement mainstream elements that you can now find in any basic open world RPG. Those games are fun. But AC has always scratched a different itch. It's taken a little nugget from other games around it and combined those nuggets into an experience only it could provide.
I think AC has more future potential to be more interesting & entertaining with the shift they're making than if they kept running AC as it was. They spent many years & releases with the same foundation while the gaming industry was evolving...
I think the next releases will be more pivotal since OD is going to carry plenty of Lore - then we'll see what direction they end up taking in future productions.

ProdiGurl
09-06-2018, 12:35 PM
I don't even know what that means or where it even came from. I never really cared for the Leap of Faith. In the entire spectrum of what defines and characterises AC, that's just one small variable, probably not even that significant. As for the "how many fans will pass on this game or leave altogether vs. the number of outside players that will start playing" discussion, only time will tell what will be more prominent. Honestly, my money's on this game losing many players, not just due to the drastic and somewhat alienating changes that the developers implemented, but also because the game will be released amongst several other blockbusters (Spider-Man; Shadow of the Tomb Raider; Call of Duty Black Ops 4; Red Dead Redemption 2; Hitman 2; Fallout 76; Battlefield V; etc).
OD is still going to be full of Lore plus probably set up future game direction with respect to Lore, so I don't think this is the game that early core fans should abandon if they're upset about 'losing AC' (in a practical aspect of looking at it).

But one thing is for sure, this year is some serious competition in gaming. I have never had this many games that I would pre-order & buy 1st day releases.
I have about 8 games, thankfully some of them are slotted for 2019.
I think if anything, the list of amazing new game titles + AC changes might cause some people to purchase AC a little later, not necessary abandon it altogether. Who knows.

Olympus2018
09-06-2018, 05:41 PM
the game will be released amongst several other blockbusters (Spider-Man; Shadow of the Tomb Raider; Call of Duty Black Ops 4; Red Dead Redemption 2; Hitman 2; Fallout 76; Battlefield V; etc).

Νοne of those games is really a direct competitor to AC Odyssey. Odyssey is a history-based open world RPG and it reconstructs real buildings and real historical characters with accuracy. There is no relation to those games.

Betrayedunbound
09-06-2018, 05:48 PM
i am on board with the rpg changes I am just worried how legacy outfits will work, no hidden blade, and alexios having no personality or emotion.

TaleraRis
09-09-2018, 08:54 AM
I don't even know what that means or where it even came from. I never really cared for the Leap of Faith. In the entire spectrum of what defines and characterises AC, that's just one small variable, probably not even that significant. As for the "how many fans will pass on this game or leave altogether vs. the number of outside players that will start playing" discussion, only time will tell what will be more prominent. Honestly, my money's on this game losing many players, not just due to the drastic and somewhat alienating changes that the developers implemented, but also because the game will be released amongst several other blockbusters (Spider-Man; Shadow of the Tomb Raider; Call of Duty Black Ops 4; Red Dead Redemption 2; Hitman 2; Fallout 76; Battlefield V; etc).

The person I quoted said that the game would only lose "obsessive Leap of Faith jumpers" and basically implied that anyone unhappy with the game couldn't like those elements in other games. Like dialogue options. Love dialogue options in games where it makes sense. It doesn't make sense here. Love non-stealth combat in other games. But this is where I always came for my stealth fix because it was a major element of the game. Exploration and hack and slash with a light story? I love me some Diablo. But this series has always had a more solid protagonist to rally behind and the historical facts were interwoven with that protagonist's life and experiences into a rich narrative tapestry. So my argument was disputing both the idea that fans unhappy with changes here just didn't enjoy those elements at all, and the idea that AC somehow needs to develop in the same manner rather than taking its own path as it always has.

joelsantos24
09-09-2018, 05:35 PM
The person I quoted said that the game would only lose "obsessive Leap of Faith jumpers" and basically implied that anyone unhappy with the game couldn't like those elements in other games. Like dialogue options. Love dialogue options in games where it makes sense. It doesn't make sense here. Love non-stealth combat in other games. But this is where I always came for my stealth fix because it was a major element of the game. Exploration and hack and slash with a light story? I love me some Diablo. But this series has always had a more solid protagonist to rally behind and the historical facts were interwoven with that protagonist's life and experiences into a rich narrative tapestry. So my argument was disputing both the idea that fans unhappy with changes here just didn't enjoy those elements at all, and the idea that AC somehow needs to develop in the same manner rather than taking its own path as it always has.
Well, I don't really know the person you were quoting, so it's not really my place to make any considerations on that.

Anyway, I've said it multiple times, that there's nothing inherently wrong with character/gender choices and dialogue options. Quite the opposite. Not by definition, that is. Character/gender choices and dialogue options are great when they make sense or when they fit the context or framework of the series and it's own mythology. But in my opinion, they don't make sense in AC, at all. You're revisiting the memories of ancestors and you're still changing the past, at the same time. With that being said, different protagonists can still exist in AC, but the approach has to be carried correctly. That is, you have two different persons, so you have two distinct strands of DNA, and therefore, two distinct sets of memories and experiences. In the end, Ubisoft presented us with a female canonical character, but they're so afraid to fully commit to the choice of a female protagonist, contrary to so many other publishers/studios, that they had to forward a male "skin" in parallel. There's a possibility, apparently, that Alexios might be related to Kassandra, but that doesn't really matter, because for all intents and purposes, in the context of the game, he's just a "skin".

Gameplay wise, Odyssey looks awesome, and stealth seems fulfilling. But for all those stealth lovers, feeling that the changes to AC might be too much to bear, Ghost of Tsushima or Left Alive might be the two most thrilling, upcoming releases. Particularly Ghost of Tsushima. Square Enix isn't promoting or revealing much about Left Alive, although they still intend to release it this year. I pretty much doubt it, but I'll wait and see.

I understand your point on the strong. relatable protagonists and their stories. I agree with you. But considering the latest statements from Ubisoft's CCO himself, neither the protagonists, characters or stories are all that important to the company, as are the open worlds and time-periods. So, the future of the series never looked as bleak. At least, in my opinion, of course.

ProdiGurl
09-10-2018, 12:13 AM
BTW, I thought Fallout 76 was only an online game..? Is it for console too?
I'm pre-ordering ACOD - I'm renting Hitman 2 & maybe RDR2 to see which I'm buying when released. I can buy 2 games not 3 so far, so one has to wait.

Sicarius_04
09-10-2018, 12:43 AM
Well, I don't really know the person you were quoting, so it's not really my place to make any considerations on that.

Anyway, I've said it multiple times, that there's nothing inherently wrong with character/gender choices and dialogue options. Quite the opposite. Not by definition, that is. Character/gender choices and dialogue options are great when they make sense or when they fit the context or framework of the series and it's own mythology. But in my opinion, they don't make sense in AC, at all. You're revisiting the memories of ancestors and you're still changing the past, at the same time. With that being said, different protagonists can still exist in AC, but the approach has to be carried correctly. That is, you have two different persons, so you have two distinct strands of DNA, and therefore, two distinct sets of memories and experiences. In the end, Ubisoft presented us with a female canonical character, but they're so afraid to fully commit to the choice of a female protagonist, contrary to so many other publishers/studios, that they had to forward a male "skin" in parallel. There's a possibility, apparently, that Alexios might be related to Kassandra, but that doesn't really matter, because for all intents and purposes, in the context of the game, he's just a "skin".

Gameplay wise, Odyssey looks awesome, and stealth seems fulfilling. But for all those stealth lovers, feeling that the changes to AC might be too much to bear, Ghost of Tsushima or Left Alive might be the two most thrilling, upcoming releases. Particularly Ghost of Tsushima. Square Enix isn't promoting or revealing much about Left Alive, although they still intend to release it this year. I pretty much doubt it, but I'll wait and see.

I understand your point on the strong. relatable protagonists and their stories. I agree with you. But considering the latest statements from Ubisoft's CCO himself, neither the protagonists, characters or stories are all that important to the company, as are the open worlds and time-periods. So, the future of the series never looked as bleak. At least, in my opinion, of course.

I wouldn't be too worried about those statements. The same guy said a couple years ago that the next AC game, meaning Origins, would have less narrative focus, and it was just as story driven as previous games. And narrative looks to be even more important to Odyssey as it's a full RPG.

colinalx
09-10-2018, 09:20 AM
Totally agree re proper arcs , i'm still reeling from the huge disappointment of the ending of the Desmon ,Sean scene etc... there was so much they could have done with that!

ProdiGurl
09-10-2018, 11:08 AM
Totally agree re proper arcs , i'm still reeling from the huge disappointment of the ending of the Desmon ,Sean scene etc... there was so much they could have done with that!
Yes, that goes for most of MD... I don't know how players can fault alot of us who have played AC from early on and yet don't really get into it that much.
It hasn't really been made as well as it could/should have. I don't know why - all I know is, it mostly broke my immersion than kept me interested to follow more.
(internet/DSL still not working for long, so may not be on much again today till fixed)

joelsantos24
09-10-2018, 11:50 AM
I wouldn't be too worried about those statements. The same guy said a couple years ago that the next AC game, meaning Origins, would have less narrative focus, and it was just as story driven as previous games. And narrative looks to be even more important to Odyssey as it's a full RPG.
I don't fully agree. In my opinion, the problem with RPG's, is that given the overwhelmingly wide spectrum of mechanics and features, the story/narrative gets unavoidably diluted in dozens and dozens of hours of mere exploration, secondary missions, resource farming, currency farming, collectible searching, character/gear management, etc. It's never truly a story-driven or narrative-oriented game, not in any given way similar to the likes of Uncharted, The Last of Us, God of War, The Order, Tomb Raider, etc. Those are the real story-oriented games.

colinalx
09-11-2018, 12:08 PM
Yea same here , still drawn to the awesome world spaces and history though..just cant help thinking series needs a good MD at some level to bind it all together...I mean Sean is still alive!! (Hopefully Rebecca too)

joelsantos24
09-11-2018, 01:04 PM
Yea same here , still drawn to the awesome world spaces and history though..just cant help thinking series needs a good MD at some level to bind it all together...I mean Sean is still alive!! (Hopefully Rebecca too)
The problem with Ubisoft, is that it aims at appealing and captivating too many players or types of players, from different genres or contexts. Take TD, for example: we never really understood if the game was meant to be more of a shooter or an RPG. It actually promised to present players with a memorable shooter experience, with lots of cover-based and tactical combat, and instead, it became an insurmountable grind-fest. After a month of being released, the game lost 95% of it's player base. Of course, it was also plagued with countless problems, like errors/glitches, hacking and cheating. That also didn't help.

With AC, the issue is similar: the company doesn't know how to stand in the middle ground and captivate both the long-term fans and new audiences. The meta-story is a good example. Some people didn't even care about it, granted, but that never meant that the entire player-base felt the same, quite the opposite. So, they're always seemingly drifting between one edge of the spectrum and the other, without committing to a more balanced approach. You can't fully please both sides of an argument, definitely; but you can certainly present a balanced compromise. That's what I believe in, anyway.

strigoi1958
09-11-2018, 04:08 PM
TD is a good game it is just ruined by the excessive amount of time we have to spend in the hub. Whenever we find an item that increases one stat, it lowers one or two other stats so we are constantly trying different items to get the best balance.... After 50 hours in the game, I realised I'd only spent 16 hours playing and 34 in the hub... that's not good when you want to play but too many things are getting inn the way. :(

As for AC it is easy to assume long term fans are all MD fans but experience tells me that is far from true. Ubi are always trying to find a balance but fans don't care if Ubi loses $500,000,000 making a game that only they want.. there has to be an understanding that AC is not about MD, 1st civ or historical gameplay... it is a product that needs to be sold to the highest number of buyers... if it is viable and if it does not lose sales then it will definitely be considered because it might bring in a few more sales so I'm sure MD, 1st Civ, lore are always being considered.

I do not have the figures but if you measured exactly how much game time in the first 5 games were devoted to MD I'd guess it would be less than 10% maybe even less than 5% so although it is very important to some players because they are hooked on it... it only is a tiny part of the actual game.. I wouldn't be surprised if the MD sections got lots of negative feedback. Maybe Ubi are trying to find a way to bring MD back into the game for the few MD fans without upsetting the historical Assassin fans and the new RPG fans that joined with Origins.

I'm not an MD fan, I do not mind MD being in the game but I have always found it to be a very annoying intrusion, it has always broken my immersion. I hated being in the middle of the ocean with gulls and shanty noises, water washing over the deck, a pirate hunter behind me, a white whale one side and a treasure ship the other... then before I could fire a broadside.... I'm in an office taking a usb stick to a courier in the foyer of an office. :(

I realise games are made for millions of players and so lots of different things are included so everyone can find their own favourite parts and so MD does not bother me that it is included... it just needs to be done in a much better way.

joelsantos24
09-11-2018, 05:33 PM
TD is a good game it is just ruined by the excessive amount of time we have to spend in the hub. Whenever we find an item that increases one stat, it lowers one or two other stats so we are constantly trying different items to get the best balance.... After 50 hours in the game, I realised I'd only spent 16 hours playing and 34 in the hub... that's not good when you want to play but too many things are getting inn the way. :(

As for AC it is easy to assume long term fans are all MD fans but experience tells me that is far from true. Ubi are always trying to find a balance but fans don't care if Ubi loses $500,000,000 making a game that only they want.. there has to be an understanding that AC is not about MD, 1st civ or historical gameplay... it is a product that needs to be sold to the highest number of buyers... if it is viable and if it does not lose sales then it will definitely be considered because it might bring in a few more sales so I'm sure MD, 1st Civ, lore are always being considered.

I do not have the figures but if you measured exactly how much game time in the first 5 games were devoted to MD I'd guess it would be less than 10% maybe even less than 5% so although it is very important to some players because they are hooked on it... it only is a tiny part of the actual game.. I wouldn't be surprised if the MD sections got lots of negative feedback. Maybe Ubi are trying to find a way to bring MD back into the game for the few MD fans without upsetting the historical Assassin fans and the new RPG fans that joined with Origins.

I'm not an MD fan, I do not mind MD being in the game but I have always found it to be a very annoying intrusion, it has always broken my immersion. I hated being in the middle of the ocean with gulls and shanty noises, water washing over the deck, a pirate hunter behind me, a white whale one side and a treasure ship the other... then before I could fire a broadside.... I'm in an office taking a usb stick to a courier in the foyer of an office. :(

I realise games are made for millions of players and so lots of different things are included so everyone can find their own favourite parts and so MD does not bother me that it is included... it just needs to be done in a much better way.
I don't think Black Flag counts as a good, positive approach for the meta-story. Nor does Unity or Syndicate, mind you.

That's just another example of how Ubisoft drifts aimlessly between the edges, without compromising to a good, balanced middle-ground. The media kept beating AC's meta-story as if it was some sort of blasphemy, and that sort of sold the notion that it was just generally annoying to every fan. Out of the sudden, Desmond dies and the entire house of cards comes crumbling down. With Black Flag, Unity and Syndicate, it seemed clear to me, that they were scraping the bottom of the barrel just to include something in the games in the form of meta-story, but didn't have the slightest idea of what or how.

Did the meta-story sequences seem intrusive and immersion-breaking, in the past games? Definitely. More often than not, you were suddenly disconnected from the Animus after a rather emotional and dramatic sequence. But that's done on purpose, in order to generate some extra climax and suspense. There're many things wrong with AC, in my opinion, rather than just the meta-story and it's approach. It's just my opinion, but there it is.

strigoi1958
09-11-2018, 06:14 PM
That's very true but even playing as Desmond collecting battery cells seemed an unnecessary reason to leave the game. For Ubi to bring MD back in a way that meant non MD fans would not complain... is difficult. It's possible but then for a lot of people who have joined AC after Desmond... all the Lore, 1st Civ etc does not make any sense, so it would need re-introducing (maybe a reboot of the series). Each game would need to start and end in the MD. But now we have changed combat and bought on board a whole new lot of fans, they might not like the change to go back to the old style of MD/ 1st Civ etc... :confused:
I guess those are the things Ubi has to consider before making changes.

joelsantos24
09-11-2018, 09:03 PM
That's very true but even playing as Desmond collecting battery cells seemed an unnecessary reason to leave the game. For Ubi to bring MD back in a way that meant non MD fans would not complain... is difficult. It's possible but then for a lot of people who have joined AC after Desmond... all the Lore, 1st Civ etc does not make any sense, so it would need re-introducing (maybe a reboot of the series). Each game would need to start and end in the MD. But now we have changed combat and bought on board a whole new lot of fans, they might not like the change to go back to the old style of MD/ 1st Civ etc... :confused:
I guess those are the things Ubi has to consider before making changes.
Well, for example, God of War changed immensely, without compromising it's own legacy, I'd say. The series had a huge following, and yet Sony felt it needed sort of a restart. Nothing of what happened before was written down or erased, it just picked up from that point. This happens with many other series. The difference with AC, and which makes it infinitely more complicated to address/solve, is that it's apparently unavoidably tied to a relentless, annual release schedule. We get a new game almost every year, so that makes it hard to let the story settle and come up with a good, balanced and meaningful followup, that manages to build on it's foundations. The greatest series take 3-4 years to produce sequels, sometimes even longer. Perhaps Ubisoft should consider doing that with it's series, instead of milking them. Perhaps that could open the door to other beloved Ubisoft series to make a long, awaited comeback, such as Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell.

Olympus2018
09-11-2018, 09:14 PM
Final Fantasy 1 and Final Fantasy 15 have nothing in common. Is it really a problem? I don't think so. It still sells like crazy. Was Far Cry 1 like Far Cry 5? Was GTA 1 like GTA 5? So, why should AC remain the same?

dxsxhxcx
09-11-2018, 09:19 PM
I am of the opinion that they should only begin developing the next title after the release of the current one. Maybe they could release a smaller "spin off" game between (big) releases that does not touch or advance the overarching narrative (maybe use the Helix system as framing device for that but without any form of MD interaction) so they don't need to strech and drag the story out and **** up with everything like they've done in the past.

colinalx
09-11-2018, 09:35 PM
Just think a good MD can bind the whole thing together , although that and appeasing all is next to impossible.
They'll go with the numbers I suppose and with each new installment the MD that was good (IMO) and did work (IMO)
get's that much older..Sad..but they are capable of making wonderful slices of history without it.

strigoi1958
09-12-2018, 09:48 AM
Well, for example, God of War changed immensely, without compromising it's own legacy, I'd say. The series had a huge following, and yet Sony felt it needed sort of a restart. Nothing of what happened before was written down or erased, it just picked up from that point. This happens with many other series. The difference with AC, and which makes it infinitely more complicated to address/solve, is that it's apparently unavoidably tied to a relentless, annual release schedule. We get a new game almost every year, so that makes it hard to let the story settle and come up with a good, balanced and meaningful followup, that manages to build on it's foundations. The greatest series take 3-4 years to produce sequels, sometimes even longer. Perhaps Ubisoft should consider doing that with it's series, instead of milking them. Perhaps that could open the door to other beloved Ubisoft series to make a long, awaited comeback, such as Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell.

The trouble is millions of players are enjoying annual releases while a small percentage who are generally MD fans are saying wait years between games... that might be because they think, given time ubi will fill the next game with MD, 1st Civ and Lore to appease MD fans while losing millions of other fans to different games (even after a 4 year gap I doubt the MD would come back any more prominently than the 3% to 10% it features in any game.

Or perhaps MD fans think I'm not enjoying annual releases so why should everyone else be happy, stop producing the game for 4 years so everyone is as hurt as we are. (I guarantee if MD was prominent and each game ended on a cliffhanger, you'd be in here screaming for the next game to release quicker so you could have your next emotional rollercoaster ;) ) I always see that term "milking" in a way I'm glad because it shows that there is some acknowledgement that this is a business, it's not about narrative, or anything in the game it is about keeping the company viable, making a profit and paying employees... and that means targeting the biggest audience, if increasing MD will make 10,000 hardcore lore fans happy but will lose 750,000 sales it doesn't make sense.

As I said leaving the game to play as Desmond to find batteries was unnecessary, ending on an emotional cliffhanger (as someone else pointed out) is okay on a weekly TV show but makes no sense in a game series. Especially with such a long time between releases, it would have lost millions of old fans and brought in millions of new fans who have no idea what's happening. If annual releases are too long to keep anyone on the edge of their seat waiting for the next installment, how will 4 years make anything better?

Everything in life changes we must adapt or move on. To me, the MD, 1st Civ and Lore was only the basis, the background story, the explanation of why and how we go back into the game, Ubi did it so well in the tiny section in the games that involved MD, 1st Civ were made mysterious enough to hook some people (often to the point that they forget that there is another 95% of the game that others feel are equally or more important). But to me it will always be like.... The A team. The A team has stories every week but in the first episode (and a reminder when the show starts) it shows why the A Team are who they are and why they do what they do. They were falsely arrested and imprisoned, they escaped and help people... each episode is a new story, it never keeps returning to when they were in prison, there was never a reason for them to keep returning to that time and there is no valid reason for AC to return to the MD... unless Ubi makes one that makes everyone happy.

When the series ends Ubi devs might go crazy in the last game filling it full of new 1st Civ and MD plus thousands of new moments (that will create 1000 new questions that will never get answered) or MD might come back when the majority of fans (or the latest trend) takes it in that direction.

At present RPG games sell well so the combat changed, I'm assuming mythical games are doing well so that explains why we are going more mythical and magical, when sci fi comes around again we'll probably end up with more 1st Civ... it's all about what right for the market not what's right for some fans even if Ubi really does try to please long standing fans.

Unfortunately for game companies, most game players (including me) are like sheep, we go to where the new grass is. I happily jump between AC, Splinter Cell, Far Cry, Anno, Settlers, Ghost Recon, The Crew, The Division... in fact I happily jump between Ubi, R*, Warner Bro, sony, Bethesda, THQ, Crytek, deep silver and loads of others because there is always a new game being released and each new game may well have something different. That is why AC has (and had to) evolve to bring in new fans as others move on. Am I a hardcore AC fan YES, but I'm also a Hardcore gamer playing between 30 and 80 hours (or more) every week so maybe that's why I appear as a casual gamer because I'm invested in many not just AC.

Infinite_Gnosis
09-12-2018, 10:51 AM
Very well put Strigoi, money talks and money corrupts. Time for a moneyless system. Investigate Jacque Fresco and the venus project. He recently passed away at the age of 101, but this guy made complete sense within our current system that doesn't anymore. Time for an upgrade into our next evolutionary phase, where humanity can finally become rational, loving and creative beings, which is our true nature, and work together from our hearts, not just doing unfulfilling ****ty jobs just to earn money, so we can pay our bills, and buy crap to fill in the void, or ease the stress. Those are just signals to let us know that we are following an unhealthy and unnatural path, but most of us are not listening. Money is just a flawed human invention, invented many centuries ago, that kinda worked back in the days, but not anymore.. Money is not god.

Olympus2018
09-12-2018, 11:12 AM
Very well put Strigoi, money talks and money corrupts. Time for a moneyless system. Investigate Jacque Fresco and the venus project. He recently passed away at the age of 101, but this guy made complete sense within our current system that doesn't anymore. Time for an upgrade into our next evolutionary phase, where humanity can finally become rational, loving and creative beings, which is our true nature, and work together from our hearts, not just doing unfulfilling ****ty jobs just to earn money, so we can pay our bills, and buy crap to fill in the void, or ease the stress.

Robotics and automation will most certainly depive us of our jobs in the future. Robots will be our slaves and we shall become masters of our lives... So, we won't have to work anyway. The economy will change dramatically due to technological progress but I digress. I foresee an inevitable future that may not be implemented before 2050-2080...

Infinite_Gnosis
09-12-2018, 11:24 AM
Robotics and automation will most certainly depive us of our jobs in the future. Robots will be our slaves and we shall become masters of our lives... So, we won't have to work anyway. The economy will change dramatically due to technological progress but I digress. I foresee an inevitable future that may not be implemented before 2050-2080...

Yeah creating abundance for everyone with the help of automation and other technological advancements would be truly amazing, but i'm just afraid the wealthy businessmen at the top won't give up their fake power that easily.. A lot of humans are still brainwashed by them, but they are losing power, and the future is looking very bright indeed.

Olympus2018
09-12-2018, 11:29 AM
Am I a hardcore AC fan YES, but I'm also a Hardcore gamer playing between 30 and 80 hours (or more) every week so maybe that's why I appear as a casual gamer because I'm invested in many not just AC.

5-10 hours per day? Are you a pro-gamer then?

strigoi1958
09-12-2018, 11:48 AM
5-10 hours per day? Are you a pro-gamer then?

No I only work 20 hours per week and I only sleep 4 to 6 hours a day... I have lots of time on my hands and thanks to co-op in Unity I have online friends around the world who are always available to game :D

ElderDarklion
09-12-2018, 12:00 PM
No I only work 20 hours per week and I only sleep 4 to 6 hours a day... I have lots of time on my hands and thanks to co-op in Unity I have online friends around the world who are always available to game
May be one of them me. But not play with you Big Brother:cool:. Hope play Unity after test Odysses.

Olympus2018
09-12-2018, 12:52 PM
No I only work 20 hours per week and I only sleep 4 to 6 hours a day... I have lots of time on my hands and thanks to co-op in Unity I have online friends around the world who are always available to game :D


May be one of them me. But not play with you Big Brother:cool:. Hope play Unity after test Odysses.

If co-op becomes available in Odyssey, I may see you on-line but not on PS4 or XBOX. I am a PC person.

ElderDarklion
09-12-2018, 01:28 PM
I'm PC too. And if co-op becomes available, there is no problem for me.

joelsantos24
09-12-2018, 04:23 PM
The trouble is millions of players are enjoying annual releases while a small percentage who are generally MD fans are saying wait years between games... that might be because they think, given time ubi will fill the next game with MD, 1st Civ and Lore to appease MD fans while losing millions of other fans to different games (even after a 4 year gap I doubt the MD would come back any more prominently than the 3% to 10% it features in any game.

Or perhaps MD fans think I'm not enjoying annual releases so why should everyone else be happy, stop producing the game for 4 years so everyone is as hurt as we are. (I guarantee if MD was prominent and each game ended on a cliffhanger, you'd be in here screaming for the next game to release quicker so you could have your next emotional rollercoaster ;) ) I always see that term "milking" in a way I'm glad because it shows that there is some acknowledgement that this is a business, it's not about narrative, or anything in the game it is about keeping the company viable, making a profit and paying employees... and that means targeting the biggest audience, if increasing MD will make 10,000 hardcore lore fans happy but will lose 750,000 sales it doesn't make sense.

As I said leaving the game to play as Desmond to find batteries was unnecessary, ending on an emotional cliffhanger (as someone else pointed out) is okay on a weekly TV show but makes no sense in a game series. Especially with such a long time between releases, it would have lost millions of old fans and brought in millions of new fans who have no idea what's happening. If annual releases are too long to keep anyone on the edge of their seat waiting for the next installment, how will 4 years make anything better?

Everything in life changes we must adapt or move on. To me, the MD, 1st Civ and Lore was only the basis, the background story, the explanation of why and how we go back into the game, Ubi did it so well in the tiny section in the games that involved MD, 1st Civ were made mysterious enough to hook some people (often to the point that they forget that there is another 95% of the game that others feel are equally or more important). But to me it will always be like.... The A team. The A team has stories every week but in the first episode (and a reminder when the show starts) it shows why the A Team are who they are and why they do what they do. They were falsely arrested and imprisoned, they escaped and help people... each episode is a new story, it never keeps returning to when they were in prison, there was never a reason for them to keep returning to that time and there is no valid reason for AC to return to the MD... unless Ubi makes one that makes everyone happy.

When the series ends Ubi devs might go crazy in the last game filling it full of new 1st Civ and MD plus thousands of new moments (that will create 1000 new questions that will never get answered) or MD might come back when the majority of fans (or the latest trend) takes it in that direction.

At present RPG games sell well so the combat changed, I'm assuming mythical games are doing well so that explains why we are going more mythical and magical, when sci fi comes around again we'll probably end up with more 1st Civ... it's all about what right for the market not what's right for some fans even if Ubi really does try to please long standing fans.

Unfortunately for game companies, most game players (including me) are like sheep, we go to where the new grass is. I happily jump between AC, Splinter Cell, Far Cry, Anno, Settlers, Ghost Recon, The Crew, The Division... in fact I happily jump between Ubi, R*, Warner Bro, sony, Bethesda, THQ, Crytek, deep silver and loads of others because there is always a new game being released and each new game may well have something different. That is why AC has (and had to) evolve to bring in new fans as others move on. Am I a hardcore AC fan YES, but I'm also a Hardcore gamer playing between 30 and 80 hours (or more) every week so maybe that's why I appear as a casual gamer because I'm invested in many not just AC.
Well, I don't know. You just made several assumptions, and although I'm not going to say they're wrong, I'm just not sure they're accurate, to be honest. Are you sure that there're that many AC fans out there, all that thrilled about the "assembly-line mass-production" style of development of the AC series? I'm inclined to believe otherwise. If storylines and narratives of other series are kept meaningful, relevant and significant, even with 3-4 year gaps between instalments, there's no reason whatsoever that it's shouldn't work with AC as well.

strigoi1958
09-12-2018, 10:31 PM
Well we are all making assumptions, there very little to support your posts either, they're just our opinions so that is fine. I'm just trying to see the big picture rather than thinking there is a conspiracy or some reason that Ubi are deliberately withholding MD to hurt some fans. You might well think annual releases are bad, however sales figures obviously disagree with you, otherwise they would not be releasing Odyssey soon.

As for AC fans yes, look at the sales figures. What you are inclined to believe, is bound to be prejudiced by your desire to have the game a certain way. As I have no opinion either way of how the games are made or the contents I have an open mind and I'm just trying to let you see another side.

You are assuming everyone (or the majority) wants narratives and story driven games, you are assuming a good story cannot be written in an extremely short time (it can) and that games can only be good if they are spaced a long time apart, (Was Ezio's trilogy really that awful? ) if people only want to play AC games every 4 years, they can, they just have to skip the next 3 games the rest of us will play. You're assuming 3 extra years will guarantee a hit (it does not) You're assuming other people want to wait 4 years to play a video game because you want a different story... why should others suffer for your desire, you may not be a fan in 4 years, you and I may not be here at all in 4 years... time is precious don't wish it away.

Just because other companies cannot produce a game faster than 3 or 4 years apart, does not mean that is a recipe for success for all other companies.



A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess written in 3 weeks.

On The Road by Jack Kerouac written in less than a month.

As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner written in 6 weeks while working night shifts in a power plant.

Casino Royale by Ian Fleming took 2 months but all following James Bond books were written in about 6 weeks.

I, the Jury by Mickey Spillane took 9 days to write.

A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens took 6 weeks.

So if these best selling books can be written in less than 2 months, why does a narrative of a video game need the other 3 years and 10 months?

Over the years I've seen these exact same comments, I understand honestly I do. People feel as though they are left unfulfilled, in limbo, and they cannot understand why Ubi seems to have just abandoned a huge part of the game, maybe the most important part of the game... the truth is, it was never a huge part of the game (to them it is), it was an integral part of the game that got out of control and perhaps could have been done a lot better. I realise people are very heavily invested in it and as a fellow gamer and AC fan I don't like to see fans unhappy. But I do understand why other factors might be behind the decision to minimise MD and why, even if Ubi wants to bring it back stronger, why there may be reasons they cannot just yet.

I know it is difficult when we can not see any reason why something should happen but sometimes we are so focused we do not see the whole picture.

Who knows maybe Ubi will bring back MD with a vengeance, maybe it will be hugely successful, maybe it will kill off AC who knows we will just have to wait, but remember if Ubi are planning to reintroduce MD as the major component of AC in 3 games from now... that will be in 12 years if they release only every four years... would you want to wait 12 years for an MD game?

ermacos
09-12-2018, 11:23 PM
The lore of Ac games starts from Greece, it is just you know nothing about it so you think the game losing its direction and it is not relevant. That is totally wrong assumption.
The sons and daughters of the snake, even as a phrase, even as a spelling bee is from us (Hellenics), our books always speaks about the sons of ΟΦΙΣ, ΟΦΙΣ is the snake. It goes back to Atlantis, then expands in western EU/Africa and today known as America ( in the very ancient years), because of the sunk of Poseidonia/Atlantis.
The so called templar’s/paladins and stuff, cults and underground communities with secret knowledge also begun from us, the so called Gnostics is not a religion is secret knowledge! Those who were Gnostics in ancient years have had 2 ID's, the everyday name that their mother calls them and the Gnostic name.
Every member of Gnostics used a personal symbol to be recognized among the community. It always combined the cross and the snake. They used to wear jewels on their fingers, ears, cloths that presented their symbol and everybody knew that this is that person among them.
Its like today secret cults with politicians and their special salutations with their fingers and the shapes they take with their hand and stuff..

One of the most famous Gnostics is Asclepius the so known god of Medicine.. (You may be confused with the definition of GODS in my country; I could help you understand it). and today medicine uses the cross and the snake a Gnostic symbol.
GODS - Those who run fast (travel in the universe, expand, create and protect life).
GOD - The one who sees all, all around at the same time and WITHOUT the need to run fast.
The clear reason is. Soul and spirit is not something new or new age. If we say we have a soul and spirit and we are particles of GOD, that makes us potentially little GODS. We run in the universe like little souls/spirits (because the creation is not only planet Earth, but the entire universe) and we reincarnate create life, we expand life, we teach others as higher beings, we protect life. Thats GODS
Now since we are particles of GOD, if I am on planet earth and another being is in Lyra star system, and you are in America, GOD is in 3 spots at the same time and without the need to run fast, like we did !

Thats why we have so many gods in ancient Hellas but religions came to teach you that you are a slave instead.

Olympus2018
09-13-2018, 07:36 AM
Well we are all making assumptions, there very little to support your posts either, they're just our opinions so that is fine. I'm just trying to see the big picture rather than thinking there is a conspiracy or some reason that Ubi are deliberately withholding MD to hurt some fans. You might well think annual releases are bad, however sales figures obviously disagree with you, otherwise they would not be releasing Odyssey soon.

As for AC fans yes, look at the sales figures. What you are inclined to believe, is bound to be prejudiced by your desire to have the game a certain way. As I have no opinion either way of how the games are made or the contents I have an open mind and I'm just trying to let you see another side.

You are assuming everyone (or the majority) wants narratives and story driven games, you are assuming a good story cannot be written in an extremely short time (it can) and that games can only be good if they are spaced a long time apart, (Was Ezio's trilogy really that awful? ) if people only want to play AC games every 4 years, they can, they just have to skip the next 3 games the rest of us will play. You're assuming 3 extra years will guarantee a hit (it does not) You're assuming other people want to wait 4 years to play a video game because you want a different story... why should others suffer for your desire, you may not be a fan in 4 years, you and I may not be here at all in 4 years... time is precious don't wish it away.

Just because other companies cannot produce a game faster than 3 or 4 years apart, does not mean that is a recipe for success for all other companies.



A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess written in 3 weeks.

On The Road by Jack Kerouac written in less than a month.

As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner written in 6 weeks while working night shifts in a power plant.

Casino Royale by Ian Fleming took 2 months but all following James Bond books were written in about 6 weeks.

I, the Jury by Mickey Spillane took 9 days to write.

A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens took 6 weeks.

So if these best selling books can be written in less than 2 months, why does a narrative of a video game need the other 3 years and 10 months?

Over the years I've seen these exact same comments, I understand honestly I do. People feel as though they are left unfulfilled, in limbo, and they cannot understand why Ubi seems to have just abandoned a huge part of the game, maybe the most important part of the game... the truth is, it was never a huge part of the game (to them it is), it was an integral part of the game that got out of control and perhaps could have been done a lot better. I realise people are very heavily invested in it and as a fellow gamer and AC fan I don't like to see fans unhappy. But I do understand why other factors might be behind the decision to minimise MD and why, even if Ubi wants to bring it back stronger, why there may be reasons they cannot just yet.

I know it is difficult when we can not see any reason why something should happen but sometimes we are so focused we do not see the whole picture.

Who knows maybe Ubi will bring back MD with a vengeance, maybe it will be hugely successful, maybe it will kill off AC who knows we will just have to wait, but remember if Ubi are planning to reintroduce MD as the major component of AC in 3 games from now... that will be in 12 years if they release only every four years... would you want to wait 12 years for an MD game?

My theory is that many people dislike the settings of Origins and Odyssey. They wanted to see a different location, not ancient Egypt or Greece. Because of that, they come up with all kinds of complaints about the game, although their biggest beef is with the setting itself.

ElderDarklion
09-13-2018, 10:04 AM
Over the years I've seen these exact same comments, I understand honestly I do. People feel as though they are left unfulfilled, in limbo, and they cannot understand why Ubi seems to have just abandoned a huge part of the game, maybe the most important part of the game... the truth is, it was never a huge part of the game (to them it is), it was an integral part of the game that got out of control and perhaps could have been done a lot better. I realise people are very heavily invested in it and as a fellow gamer and AC fan I don't like to see fans unhappy. But I do understand why other factors might be behind the decision to minimise MD and why, even if Ubi wants to bring it back stronger, why there may be reasons they cannot just yet.

I know it is difficult when we can not see any reason why something should happen but sometimes we are so focused we do not see the whole picture.

With huge respect Big Brother. But the problems aren't only MD.

I criticize this game because of choice dialogues and two heroes live same life. Not only MD but about AC Story changing too much. And I know that these two options make the game more funny and interesting too. Many new AC Fans add to Family that they will play or played these great franchise this year or last year. Great. Also a company must evolve every time. And this means that they search for new things and follow most popular things at the games and use them at their games with a bit changing. Shadow of Mordor used near same AC's climbing and assasination system and give us a nemesis system too. They succeed. Now AC use a same thing under mercenary system and most popular RPG elements. Ubi is going to Succeed too. Real life, real reasons. But don't these options delete all memories about AC Story. Forget all before games. What we play? Give us many logical mistakes but more exiting, interesting, funny game with more sales. And that is the most important thing. Probably(no I'm sure of it) I'm too adopt AC. Because Many people used pirate AC games at this world and I too many year ago because I didn't have got a PC 5 years ago and played it at an internet cafe. But after AC 3(at that time I didn't have a PC too but I loaded it too a PC at internet cafe which I went there every day that times and played it there. After then I bought a laptop and bought all the others that I played and finished them before at many times but wanted to support this great work's owners. That is their rights.) I bought all I can(not buy Rogue and Liberation) and support Ubi. And also bought a new desktop last year to mostly play new AC games that you knew it Big Brother and also my Origins playing time tells the truth that I play it 1664 hours right now. And this story don't express anything for many people but show me how I am crazy for AC Franchise. And now I have got big anxieties. Not about locations or gameplay but AC loose it's soul in my opinion. But again and again say these words that this game will be a great game but not an AC for me.

Add: These complains/whinings are about to affect only a few fans like me and it's not important when many players and fans are very happy this new way. Only want to share my feelings about the game in the community.

strigoi1958
09-13-2018, 10:45 AM
I understand and agree little brother, I'm just saying we do not know where Ubi is going with this, maybe they needed to wipe the page clean so they can rebuild AC back stronger. I was saying Game makers must adapt to the market trend... at one time every game that came out ended up getting a zombie DLC, I'm glad AC did not get that, but if it had (I would not have liked it) but I would understand that Ubi were only doing it because that is what was popular amongst game players. Maybe not popular amongst long term AC fans but popular with current/ casual game players.

AC is very healthy at the moment (probably because of Origins) Ubi had a very good year financially and Origins sold over 1.5 million copies in the first week. AC changed to a style made to bring in fans from Witcher 3, gods of war, Shadow of War and Final fantasy XV. (maybe because the AC fans were slowly disappearing??) Like you I really like dialogue choice, and the story has changed because it's happening in a time before the games we love (I'm not a fan of mythical creatures but if it keeps AC games going I'm happy).

AC3 and AC4 will always be my favourite AC games... almost everything about them suited my style of play and they included so many of the things I love about AC games. But I knew the game had to change and leave some of the things I really like behind.

ElderDarklion
09-13-2018, 10:58 AM
Like many times you are right and kind Big Brother. Only accepting somethings are sometimes too hard. May time pass and solve every dillemmas at our minds.

And totally agree about Zombies. Hope not seeing a zombie DLC:D.

joelsantos24
09-13-2018, 01:03 PM
Well we are all making assumptions, there very little to support your posts either, they're just our opinions so that is fine. I'm just trying to see the big picture rather than thinking there is a conspiracy or some reason that Ubi are deliberately withholding MD to hurt some fans. You might well think annual releases are bad, however sales figures obviously disagree with you, otherwise they would not be releasing Odyssey soon.

As for AC fans yes, look at the sales figures. What you are inclined to believe, is bound to be prejudiced by your desire to have the game a certain way. As I have no opinion either way of how the games are made or the contents I have an open mind and I'm just trying to let you see another side.

You are assuming everyone (or the majority) wants narratives and story driven games, you are assuming a good story cannot be written in an extremely short time (it can) and that games can only be good if they are spaced a long time apart, (Was Ezio's trilogy really that awful? ) if people only want to play AC games every 4 years, they can, they just have to skip the next 3 games the rest of us will play. You're assuming 3 extra years will guarantee a hit (it does not) You're assuming other people want to wait 4 years to play a video game because you want a different story... why should others suffer for your desire, you may not be a fan in 4 years, you and I may not be here at all in 4 years... time is precious don't wish it away.

Just because other companies cannot produce a game faster than 3 or 4 years apart, does not mean that is a recipe for success for all other companies.



A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess written in 3 weeks.

On The Road by Jack Kerouac written in less than a month.

As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner written in 6 weeks while working night shifts in a power plant.

Casino Royale by Ian Fleming took 2 months but all following James Bond books were written in about 6 weeks.

I, the Jury by Mickey Spillane took 9 days to write.

A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens took 6 weeks.

So if these best selling books can be written in less than 2 months, why does a narrative of a video game need the other 3 years and 10 months?

Over the years I've seen these exact same comments, I understand honestly I do. People feel as though they are left unfulfilled, in limbo, and they cannot understand why Ubi seems to have just abandoned a huge part of the game, maybe the most important part of the game... the truth is, it was never a huge part of the game (to them it is), it was an integral part of the game that got out of control and perhaps could have been done a lot better. I realise people are very heavily invested in it and as a fellow gamer and AC fan I don't like to see fans unhappy. But I do understand why other factors might be behind the decision to minimise MD and why, even if Ubi wants to bring it back stronger, why there may be reasons they cannot just yet.

I know it is difficult when we can not see any reason why something should happen but sometimes we are so focused we do not see the whole picture.

Who knows maybe Ubi will bring back MD with a vengeance, maybe it will be hugely successful, maybe it will kill off AC who knows we will just have to wait, but remember if Ubi are planning to reintroduce MD as the major component of AC in 3 games from now... that will be in 12 years if they release only every four years... would you want to wait 12 years for an MD game?
Well, I just disagree with your points, that's all I can say, really. You can write a good story in days, weeks or months, granted. But a game is not just a story, and you simply can't build a great game in that amount of time. The fans have been begging for a break in the series, for many years, now. And they haven't done so lightly. The series has been long considered overly saturated, and suffering from considerable fatigue.

With that being said, to each, his own, really. People have different opinions and I suppose we can agree to disagree.

strigoi1958
09-13-2018, 01:47 PM
Well, I just disagree with your points, that's all I can say, really. You can write a good story in days, weeks or months, granted. But a game is not just a story, and you simply can't build a great game in that amount of time. The fans have been begging for a break in the series, for many years, now. And they haven't done so lightly. The series has been long considered overly saturated, and suffering from considerable fatigue.

With that being said, to each, his own, really. People have different opinions and I suppose we can agree to disagree.


I have read these points before and they come from a point of view that is so focused that they believe they absolutely represent the millions of AC players even though there might be less than 30 people on the forum of the same opinion.

It is only your opinion that a great game cannot be made in a set time. AC games are not made in the time after the last game finishes, they are often started shortly after the previous game started, so even when AC was annually released the game may have been 2 or 3 years or more in development.

That is the trouble with a forum, a few people agree and several threads get made with multiple posts rehashing the same points a few hundred times and then it starts to feel as though everyone in the world thinks the same way. It is easy to start thinking that as 30 other people are in agreement ALL ac players must be. :(

You have pinpointed the problem exactly "People have different opinions" I would like a new ac game every month, so should ubi appease me or appease you or should they listen to marketing and take on board ALL the information from surveys, feedback, mentors AND forums and make the game to suit the majority regardless of what I want or what you want?

I'm just trying to make you see regardless of what is written on the forums we are a small contribution in feedback, we do not represent what everyone wants.

Have you considered the series fatigue may have been because AC had not changed to it's new Origins style sooner? Maybe it was suffering fatigue because of all the things you and I liked about the series?

Everything feels less amazing after time no matter how much we love it, we ask for change then we miss the old days... that is human nature... as a group we're impossible to please ;) It's good to keep giving the feedback to Ubi because it does get heard and all these threads do add up. I know over the time you have been posting here that all your post come from the fact that you really want to make AC a better game and I know that there are many ideas on the forum where we have all contributed and we could make an incredible ac game an epic game... but now might not be the right time to release it in the market. I think we will see some of the things we want but I don't know when.

Olympus2018
09-13-2018, 07:56 PM
Οk game over. There will be old school Assassins in the game and the original hidden blade will appear too. More spoilers prove that Odyssey is a REAL AC game, 100%

ProdiGurl
09-13-2018, 08:00 PM
I have read these points before and they come from a point of view that is so focused that they believe they absolutely represent the millions of AC players even though there might be less than 30 people on the forum of the same opinion.

It is only your opinion that a great game cannot be made in a set time. AC games are not made in the time after the last game finishes, they are often started shortly after the previous game started, so even when AC was annually released the game may have been 2 or 3 years or more in development.

That is the trouble with a forum, a few people agree and several threads get made with multiple posts rehashing the same points a few hundred times and then it starts to feel as though everyone in the world thinks the same way. It is easy to start thinking that as 30 other people are in agreement ALL ac players must be. :(

You have pinpointed the problem exactly "People have different opinions" I would like a new ac game every month, so should ubi appease me or appease you or should they listen to marketing and take on board ALL the information from surveys, feedback, mentors AND forums and make the game to suit the majority regardless of what I want or what you want?

I'm just trying to make you see regardless of what is written on the forums we are a small contribution in feedback, we do not represent what everyone wants.

Have you considered the series fatigue may have been because AC had not changed to it's new Origins style sooner? Maybe it was suffering fatigue because of all the things you and I liked about the series?

Everything feels less amazing after time no matter how much we love it, we ask for change then we miss the old days... that is human nature... as a group we're impossible to please ;) It's good to keep giving the feedback to Ubi because it does get heard and all these threads do add up. I know over the time you have been posting here that all your post come from the fact that you really want to make AC a better game and I know that there are many ideas on the forum where we have all contributed and we could make an incredible ac game an epic game... but now might not be the right time to release it in the market. I think we will see some of the things we want but I don't know when.
Excellent posts here. Totally agree


The series has been long considered overly saturated, and suffering from considerable fatigue.
I don't think the fatigue is all yearly release-related, but repetition related as well. It may be a combination of things. Someone on an RDR2 info vid. that games now take btwn 3-8 yrs to make??
I hope not, but I do think Ubi's trying to stay ahead of the curve by trying to change things up in the franchise for the future.

Olympus2018
09-13-2018, 08:05 PM
Οk game over. There will be old school Assassins in the game and the original hidden blade will appear too. More spoilers prove that Odyssey is a REAL AC game, 100%

joelsantos24
09-13-2018, 08:37 PM
I have read these points before and they come from a point of view that is so focused that they believe they absolutely represent the millions of AC players even though there might be less than 30 people on the forum of the same opinion.
I don't represent anyone besides myself. My opinion is merely that, my honest and meaningless opinion. I'm not a spokesperson for neither the fans nor the publisher/developers, and I don't make policy regarding the AC series or Ubisoft's business models. I happen to know many, many people who agree with me, and I'm sure just as many, if not more, will surely disagree with my views. Actually, I believe that's all I should highlight, at this moment, that we agree to disagree.

SgtWolf1
09-13-2018, 08:43 PM
Οk game over. There will be old school Assassins in the game and the original hidden blade will appear too. More spoilers prove that Odyssey is a REAL AC game, 100%

That DLC looks like it will be a hell of lot of fun! The dialog should be very interesting indeed. If Bayek and such started the creed 400 years later, who is this guy and what's his story.SO intriguing! Though I don't follow the whole overarching plot and it's intricacies as much as some so I could be mixing something up.

Olympus2018
09-13-2018, 09:00 PM
That DLC looks like it will be a hell of lot of fun! The dialog should be very interesting indeed. If Bayek and such started the creed 400 years later, who is this guy and what's his story.SO intriguing! Though I don't follow the whole overarching plot and it's intricacies as much as some so I could be mixing something up.

Αlso it is confirmed that at least until the summer of 2019, new episodes and other kinds of DLC will be released to keep us busy.

ProdiGurl
09-13-2018, 09:38 PM
Lots of info to show me that this game shouldn't be prejudged so negatively ? I'll be Pre-ordering a week before release


I don't represent anyone besides myself. My opinion is merely that, my honest and meaningless opinion.
It's no more 'meaningless' than anyone elses including my own =)

Olympus2018
09-13-2018, 09:41 PM
I have not played AC3 and the remastered HD version will come for free as long as you buy the season pass. Talk about value for money. Where are all the haters now?

strigoi1958
09-13-2018, 09:51 PM
I don't think the fatigue is all yearly release-related, but repetition related as well. It may be a combination of things.

Absolutely right, we were just running from synch point to synch point, possibly far too many collectibles and a lot of people felt the combat was so easy they could fight armies single handed while enemies waited patiently for their turn to be killed. The first games were amazing and still are but as you say, having the same format was probably starting to imake ac feel as though we'd already played it, in the previous game.

ElderDarklion
09-13-2018, 09:55 PM
Where are all the haters now?
Here. If an opposite perspective or have some anxieties or make critisizm means hate. But I wrote a thanks post too. I understand your excitement. When AC Revelations came and The City was Istanbul, I was like you.

strigoi1958
09-13-2018, 09:59 PM
My favourite game trailer of all time, I played unity and ac4 bf for longer but I replayed revelations more than any other AC :D


https://youtu.be/4K39UWxdm0U

ElderDarklion
09-13-2018, 10:06 PM
Not talking about game but this trailer is a legend for me and Ezio's words when he waited to hang. Always search the Truth.
Also the disks and Altair's memories are unforgettable too. Darim said Altair. Look at 6.34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQJYnJwvuvo

Olympus2018
09-13-2018, 10:07 PM
Here. If an opposite perspective or have some anxieties or make critisizm means hate. But I wrote a thanks post too. I understand your excitement. When AC Revelations came and The City was Istanbul, I was like you.

Revelations was a tricky game.... Some characters spoke Greek and the game mentioned the Byzantine/Greek past of Constantinople, which also touched my emotions. Regarding haters now....
I definitely did not imply you! There are other folks who complain about lack of hidden blades and real Assassins and leaps of faith etc.

strigoi1958
09-13-2018, 10:11 PM
Hey Darklion are you going to buy odyssey?

ElderDarklion
09-13-2018, 10:15 PM
I see you but 'haters' is a bit heavy word for me.

Add:Bought gold edition 21 June.;) I'm an AC fan.

Kiroku
09-13-2018, 10:18 PM
Dude the season pass content is huge.. Glad I decided to give it a try too and got the gold edition with the uplay discount.

Atlantis.. first civ.. oh hell yeah boy!

Olympus2018
09-13-2018, 10:23 PM
This game seems too....Greek to be true. Athens, Sparta, Atlantis, Mykonos, Lesvos, Argos, Corinth, Makedonia, Mount Olympus.... Medusa, Minotaur, Titans, demigods.....
Add to the mixture some First Civilization stuff, Pieces of Eden, real Assassins, hidden blades etc. and you end up with the game of the century!!! Even God of War fans will be interested in this overdose of RPG epicness.

joelsantos24
09-13-2018, 11:46 PM
Lots of info to show me that this game shouldn't be prejudged so negatively ? I'll be Pre-ordering a week before release


It's no more 'meaningless' than anyone elses including my own =)
It's all we have, really, our own opinions. Variability and plurality are very precious aspects of life, and it's only natural that people may display or convey different views. I think it's healthy. Life would be very much boring and hollow, if everyone had the same views or notions and felt exactly the same. ;)

Anyway, you're right, Odyssey's Season Pass information really spiked my overall interest in the game. I think it's going to be awesome to meet Artabanus and get an idea about his principles and motivations. There was no established Order/Brotherhood in his time, at least, not that we know of. So, it'll be very interesting to learn more about him and his beliefs, in order to understand how exactly does he fit the concept of proto-Assassin. AC3 remastered was awesome news, as well. I think I'll be getting the game, but it won't be the Gold edition, though, because the Heralds of Dusk pack really captivates me. So, I might just buy the Deluxe Edition and then get the Season Pass later, perhaps on the PS Store's Christmas sale.

TaleraRis
09-14-2018, 02:00 AM
Well, I don't really know the person you were quoting, so it's not really my place to make any considerations on that.

Anyway, I've said it multiple times, that there's nothing inherently wrong with character/gender choices and dialogue options. Quite the opposite. Not by definition, that is. Character/gender choices and dialogue options are great when they make sense or when they fit the context or framework of the series and it's own mythology. But in my opinion, they don't make sense in AC, at all. You're revisiting the memories of ancestors and you're still changing the past, at the same time. With that being said, different protagonists can still exist in AC, but the approach has to be carried correctly. That is, you have two different persons, so you have two distinct strands of DNA, and therefore, two distinct sets of memories and experiences. In the end, Ubisoft presented us with a female canonical character, but they're so afraid to fully commit to the choice of a female protagonist, contrary to so many other publishers/studios, that they had to forward a male "skin" in parallel. There's a possibility, apparently, that Alexios might be related to Kassandra, but that doesn't really matter, because for all intents and purposes, in the context of the game, he's just a "skin".

Gameplay wise, Odyssey looks awesome, and stealth seems fulfilling. But for all those stealth lovers, feeling that the changes to AC might be too much to bear, Ghost of Tsushima or Left Alive might be the two most thrilling, upcoming releases. Particularly Ghost of Tsushima. Square Enix isn't promoting or revealing much about Left Alive, although they still intend to release it this year. I pretty much doubt it, but I'll wait and see.

I understand your point on the strong. relatable protagonists and their stories. I agree with you. But considering the latest statements from Ubisoft's CCO himself, neither the protagonists, characters or stories are all that important to the company, as are the open worlds and time-periods. So, the future of the series never looked as bleak. At least, in my opinion, of course.

I think you may have missed my previous comments or you're getting me confused with someone else. I completely agree with you and I hold the same worries about the future of the series.

joelsantos24
09-14-2018, 12:40 PM
I think you may have missed my previous comments or you're getting me confused with someone else. I completely agree with you and I hold the same worries about the future of the series.
Uh... Well, I might've missed some of your earlier posts, yes. Anyway, I was merely carrying the discussion a bit farther, not necessarily disagreeing with you on anything. So, I took the opportunity to elaborate a bit on what I don't really understand or agree with in Odyssey, as well as the aspects that I'm enjoying.

It's cool... :p