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View Full Version : The real issue with these reworks.



iadvisoryi
08-22-2018, 05:40 PM
Mostly in regards to orochi and warden, their reworks makes them so easy to cheese a win out, because they're new player friendly! Warden abuse overhead lights and dashing overhead heavy and zone. Orochi just abuse his lights. And it can actually grab wins off of players. The game should be skill based and not anyone with a unreactale light gets free damage. I see a warden in 80% of my ranked duals and at least 40% of the time in 4v4's. I play warden and I like his change but his dashing heavy needs to be slower. And I also play orochi, the first light in his new triple light chain needs to be reverted and be reactable.

PepsiBeastin
08-22-2018, 05:56 PM
The problem is that "rework" basically means giving characters 500ms attacks and faster combos, mostly with spammable bashes rather than making the entire kit more usable while still keeping the original identity of the character. Out of all the reworks that have come out I'd say valkyrie's is most like her moveset at release. There should be some kind of category system that says X class can't have attacks faster than X ms, rather should get other tools that lets them get damage in.

dinosaurlicker
08-22-2018, 06:14 PM
The best way to fix orochi light apam is to increase chip damage to 40 or 50%, and then nerf his third light attack from 400ms to 500ms. 500ms is fine with chip, no need for 400ms garbage although I understand his second light needs to be that fast or he will be as useless as before

iadvisoryi
08-23-2018, 02:35 AM
The problem is that "rework" basically means giving characters 500ms attacks and faster combos, mostly with spammable bashes rather than making the entire kit more usable while still keeping the original identity of the character. Out of all the reworks that have come out I'd say valkyrie's is most like her moveset at release. There should be some kind of category system that says X class can't have attacks faster than X ms, rather should get other tools that lets them get damage in.

Dog valk is the most busted yet. Yea it stays true to her but that's cuz they didnt add much in terms of something new other than chains. Her lights, 50/50's and leg sweep dmg Is busted as hell

ArchDukeInstinct
08-23-2018, 02:52 AM
Get a load of this. People complained relentlessly about "muh defensive meta" and praised Shaman being added to the game but as soon as ex C Tier classes like Conqueror, Berserker, Kensei, Orochi, etc actually get some offense of their own, these same people are bawling because things are just too fast and "cheesy" for them now.

DefiledDragon
08-23-2018, 03:00 AM
Get a load of this. People complained relentlessly about "muh defensive meta" and praised Shaman being added to the game but as soon as ex C Tier classes like Conqueror, Berserker, Kensei, Orochi, etc actually get some offense of their own, these same people are bawling because things are just too fast and "cheesy" for them now.

This game is pure cheese. I don't care overly much because I play 4 v 4 mostly, or 2 v 2. Some of the characters need a redesign to make them less cheesy and more flexible but meh. Ubisoft want a competitive community to build around this game. Erm, yeah, no. Never going to happen. As a frenetic multiplayer melee game, it's fun. As a competitive 1 v 1 game it's a disaster.

iadvisoryi
08-23-2018, 03:05 AM
Get a load of this. People complained relentlessly about "muh defensive meta" and praised Shaman being added to the game but as soon as ex C Tier classes like Conqueror, Berserker, Kensei, Orochi, etc actually get some offense of their own, these same people are bawling because things are just too fast and "cheesy" for them now.

Zerker and conq are fine, I was winning tournaments before orochi's change, his new light chain just makes him scrub friendly. And kensi does way to much dmg. With his 50/50s and guaranteed lights and heavys

dinosaurlicker
08-23-2018, 05:51 AM
Zerker and conq are fine, I was winning tournaments before orochi's change, his new light chain just makes him scrub friendly. And kensi does way to much dmg. With his 50/50s and guaranteed lights and heavys

“Zerker and conq are fine”
You were the same guy *****ing about Centurion right? 😂

iadvisoryi
08-23-2018, 07:22 AM
“Zerker and conq are fine”
You were the same guy *****ing about Centurion right? 😂

Yup, and you're the ignorant guy who doesn't like other people who have different opinions. Grow up. You have characters you dislike fighting and so does everyone else so leave it at that and stop arguing when we all want to make the game better.

Tyrjo
08-23-2018, 07:57 AM
Get a load of this. People complained relentlessly about "muh defensive meta" and praised Shaman being added to the game but as soon as ex C Tier classes like Conqueror, Berserker, Kensei, Orochi, etc actually get some offense of their own, these same people are bawling because things are just too fast and "cheesy" for them now.

To be fair I don't think there is any hero who have had so much complaints like Shaman has.

dinosaurlicker
08-23-2018, 11:19 PM
Yup, and you're the ignorant guy who doesn't like other people who have different opinions. Grow up. You have characters you dislike fighting and so does everyone else so leave it at that and stop arguing when we all want to make the game better.

Lol you’re trying to polarize me as the bad guy. I just tried to educate you as to why Cent is not OP, but you ended up providing no argument and just cussing/denying so I left. Not looking to start this again, but seriously leave your tier list out of balance changes because it’s purely based on your low-skill level fight experiences. I agree that we’re all trying to make the game better, but if we nerf Cent but not Conq and Zerker then we’re not bettering the game at all.

Never said I didn’t like you either... you just refuse to present arguments to back up your claims and it annoys me

Knight_Raime
08-24-2018, 01:10 AM
The reworks are going off of their poor kit design. Added to the fact that the games base mechanics are also heavily flawed. Warden would have needed a brand new kit in order to actually be good without a strong bash. Personally I don't think they've made him OP. But I recognize that a lesser skilled player stands a better chance using him versus a decent player. Such is the nature of S tier heros.

DefiledDragon
08-24-2018, 01:18 AM
The reworks are going off of their poor kit design. Added to the fact that the games base mechanics are also heavily flawed. Warden would have needed a brand new kit in order to actually be good without a strong bash. Personally I don't think they've made him OP. But I recognize that a lesser skilled player stands a better chance using him versus a decent player. Such is the nature of S tier heros.

I wouldn't say he was S tier. He's a strong A but he's not S.

Knight_Raime
08-24-2018, 08:49 AM
I wouldn't say he was S tier. He's a strong A but he's not S.

He's S tier in duels. Might change to low S or top A once the static guard bug is fixed though.

Xil_h
08-24-2018, 09:28 AM
... once the static guard bug is fixed though.

What is that guard bug?

DefiledDragon
08-24-2018, 10:11 AM
He's S tier in duels. Might change to low S or top A once the static guard bug is fixed though.

I'm not factoring exploits into my evaluation as I don't exploit but any char that can exploit the static guard bug is broken by default anyway. I can't believe it's still a thing given how long the devs have known about it. Something of an indicator of how much they care for balance imo.

Knight_Raime
08-24-2018, 05:45 PM
What is that guard bug?

So everyone in the game is subject to a 100ms guard switch delay after switching your stance. This is to prevent either guard from insta blocking.
Static guard heros can spam switch their guard which lets their next to guard switches to not have the 100ms guard switch delay. Essentially meaning they can block anything on reaction.
This currently doesn't allow 400ms delayed lights to do their job. Thus shutting out the offense of most assassins.



I'm not factoring exploits into my evaluation as I don't exploit but any char that can exploit the static guard bug is broken by default anyway. I can't believe it's still a thing given how long the devs have known about it. Something of an indicator of how much they care for balance imo.

I typically don't either. But often when I speak on tiers i'm going off of what the pro players in the competitive community go off of. Warden has his bash which can't be shut out with a single action like most mix ups. And both the tracking on charged and his dash heavy catch rolls of all kinds. even the proper dodge unlock roll that counters everything else. (mind you that you need to read that it's going to happen but still.) His forward dash recovery is 300ms. Which just further enables his ability to pressure. His some what easily gained charged bash and wall splat give him 40 damage. With a max oos punish of 70 iirc.

His unblockable top heavy can't be parried on reaction. This is because he's got a 500ms window to feint it. And you can't parry in the last 100ms of the attack. So you're essentially given about 233ms of time to try and decide if you're going to parry or not. His GB vulnerability on the move is 400ms. Instead of it being 600ms like other attacks of it's speed. Meaning feint into GB isn't going to work. Nor will external GB's even if you try to predict it. You also can't hit him out of it unless you're either hold numbers advantage or he whiffs into it. If you eat a light from him the best you can do from your hit stun is a light. which trades. Your eh damage for his 40. Blocking a side heavy or zone doesn't allow you to attack for a trade due to the hit stun.

Now he has all of that plus the instant guard switch bug. Considering how good his bash is I doubt he will be leaving S tier in duels even after they fix the bug (which yes they are fixing it this season.)

dinosaurlicker
08-24-2018, 10:48 PM
Warden is a clear S-tier. The bash is too good and they gave him fast lights too. Not to mention his forward dash guard is different from everyone else for some reason. He’s simple and too strong

The_B0G_
08-24-2018, 11:36 PM
I don't like how spammy the reworks have become, but at the same time it's better than the defense meta, I have run into turtles a lot the last couple weeks for some reason and I would rather get spammed with lights than get spammed with inactivity and staring contests.

Knight_Raime
08-25-2018, 01:01 AM
Warden is a clear S-tier. The bash is too good and they gave him fast lights too. Not to mention his forward dash guard is different from everyone else for some reason. He’s simple and too strong

He's always had 300ms forward dash. Forward dash recovery actually varies some what amongst the cast it's not just him.
Also he's always had 500ms top light. they just made his side light from neutral 500ms as well.

Corentin10111
08-25-2018, 11:21 AM
I really think orochi' third light should be removed (if we count the double top light like one hit)..
From a rep 30 orochi.

Baturai
08-25-2018, 01:00 PM
Nerf orochi Just because 1 of his followup lights has 100 - ms difference compared to others.
But the fact that His complete kit is garbage. its ok. The very obvious garbageness is his halfway gbable LIGHT ATTACK Riptide, Takes forever to perform Stormrush.
Ezbait Zephrflash, Sideheavy vulnerablity to Gbs... ****tty sin Guard. Pray and Manage to Land Heavy Deflect. and and and...

Orochi has more weakness than Advantage... why dont you see all the - points man ??

I am rep 42 Orochi. I stopt playing For honor just because how frustated i was with The Rework.

İf 400 ms light is your Butthurt. And you stay silent while berserkers wardens valks pre pka conqs glads or any freaking insanely cheesy hero in the game made this game cancerous.


You are nothing but a hypocritic newbie.

Orochi has to be Repaired..

We cant just rely on Lights. On Pc they are sooooo easy to parry !

Corentin10111
08-25-2018, 03:48 PM
You are nothing but a hypocritic newbie.


If you want to be understood say who you are talking to maybe..

Baturai
08-25-2018, 08:32 PM
If you want to be understood say who you are talking to maybe..

Talking To Anyone

The_B0G_
08-25-2018, 10:43 PM
No one will ever be happy with balancing until they balance console and pc seperately.

Orochi light spam on console is an issue for most players, yet on PC his light spam isn't useful at all, I've heard from a few different people. They need to balance platform seperately or the complaining will never stop.