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Mister_Mopey
08-10-2018, 06:13 AM
I recently learned that for honor can never have 60fps on console. I now also now that itís not ubi fault and they cant do anything about it. Iím sorry to say that for honor can no longer be competitive on console. With the 30 FPS restriction everybody just plays quick attack characters and wins. I would get a pc and play the beloved game but I donít have enough money. With out friends too I canít find other aspects to have fun in the game. So with that I am very displeased to put for honor in its grave for me and other console players. Thanks to connyc on twitch for giving me this info

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 08:07 AM
How many times did I explain this now!?

60 FPS gives you in the best case 16ms more time to react compared to 30 FPS. That's literally it. Some people argue that the animations are better readable, I don't have an opinion on that. If you focus on indicators it is 100% only 16ms advantage, and that only if your opponent triggers an attack at the startup of a new frame.

Let that sink in - 16ms difference at max.

Get a good Gaming Monitor? This will give you probably 100ms more reaction time if you are playing on a TV without a Gaming Mode.
Go wired for Controller and Internet Connection? This will give you 20-50ms more reaction time.

The frame difference is the most negligible factor.

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 09:05 AM
How many times did I explain this now!?

60 FPS gives you in the best case 16ms more time to react compared to 30 FPS. That's literally it. Some people argue that the animations are better readable, I don't have an opinion on that. If you focus on indicators it is 100% only 16ms advantage, and that only if your opponent triggers an attack at the startup of a new frame.

Let that sink in - 16ms difference at max.

Get a good Gaming Monitor? This will give you probably 100ms more reaction time if you are playing on a TV without a Gaming Mode.
Go wired for Controller and Internet Connection? This will give you 20-50ms more reaction time.

The frame difference is the most negligible factor.

It doesnít matter how many times youíve explained it, someone whose posted a grand total of 3 times on this forum will have almost certainly not seen any of those posts you have made.

Get a good gaming monitor, spend at least 600 dollars. Great advice...

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 09:08 AM
It doesn’t matter how many times you’ve explained it, someone whose posted a grand total of 3 times on this forum will have almost certainly not seen any of those posts you have made.

Get a good gaming monitor, spend at least 600 dollars. Great advice...

And where exactly is the difference between getting a good Gaming Monitor and getting a PC that can put out 60 FPS on For Honor constantly, including a Monitor? :confused:

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 09:29 AM
And where exactly is the difference between getting a good Gaming Monitor and getting a PC that can put out 60 FPS on For Honor constantly, including a Monitor? :confused:

Whereís the difference? If you want a decent set up maybe 2 grand difference if you include monitor.

Players who have PC more than likely all have gaming monitors, and wired controller/keyboard as well as wired internet. That means that they have, at best, nearly 200 more ms more reaction time than console players who have none of the above, which is probably the majority.

So itís a massive difference.

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 09:40 AM
Where’s the difference? If you want a decent set up maybe 2 grand difference if you include monitor.

Players who have PC more than likely all have gaming monitors, and wired controller/keyboard as well as wired internet. That means that they have, at best, nearly 200 more ms more reaction time than console players who have none of the above, which is probably the majority.

So it’s a massive difference.

Yep, and PC players PAID for that. And then it is Ubi's fault that some Console players use unresponsive TV's to play on? I still don't get your sarcasm on my advice being "great...".

Let me give a comparison to this argument: you buy a 44 KW car and then complain about the car company that your car cannot run as fast as a 117 KW one? :confused:

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 09:57 AM
Yep, and PC players PAID for that. And then it is Ubi's fault that some Console players use unresponsive TV's to play on? I still don't get your sarcasm on my advice being "great...".

Let me give a comparison to this argument: you buy a 44 KW car and then complain about the car company that your car cannot run as fast as a 117 KW one? :confused:

Itís not sarcasm that I donít consider saying spend 600 dollars to get half of the even playing playing field good advice.

There are many games that run on console at 60fps. Consoles can easily run games at 60fps. People paying for a 117kw car paid more for the car. The car company would say you need to buy a better car. Ubisoft canít say you need to buy a better game. Gamers paid the exact same price, for the exact same game, but get a different experience because of the game, not the hardware they run on it. My Xbox one X can run games at 60fps, itís not my fault that FH doesnít run at 60fps on my console.

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 10:05 AM
It’s not sarcasm that I don’t consider saying spend 600 dollars to get half of the even playing playing field good advice.

There are many games that run on console at 60fps. Consoles can easily run games at 60fps. People paying for a 117kw car paid more for the car. The car company would say you need to buy a better car. Ubisoft can’t say you need to buy a better game. Gamers paid the exact same price, for the exact same game, but get a different experience because of the game, not the hardware they run on it. My Xbox one X can run games at 60fps, it’s not my fault that FH doesn’t run at 60fps on my console.

What you still did not understand obviously: change the FPS to 60, have a bad TV - experience the same problems.

Let's compare prices:
- a decent PC with gaming Monitor: ~1,5k €
- Xbox One X with a decent TV: ~1,5k €

So, to get a good experience (small input lag), both players have to spend about the same amount of money. Yet it is false to tell Console players to buy a decent Monitor / TV? I don't understand, really. There was a reason I ignored you, should stick to it and not open your posts I guess...

Again, +30 FPS won't fix the majority of issues as many players who played on both Console and PC, with and without decent Monitors, have confirmed.

Kamen42
08-10-2018, 10:13 AM
The advice to get a good screen might sound weird, but it actually works. I switched monitors this Spring and I could not believe the difference. Suddenly I was able to parry things I was not able to block before.

And yes, the new screen was the only thing that I changed.

That_guy44
08-10-2018, 10:18 AM
Yes it is the dev's fault. They dropped the ball on that aspect. 30 FPS for consoles? That's a joke that just keeps pissing off the console users. How can make a fighting game, and prioritize PC over console?

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 10:28 AM
Yes it is the dev's fault. They dropped the ball on that aspect. 30 FPS for consoles? That's a joke that just keeps pissing off the console users. How can make a fighting game, and prioritize PC over console?

1. You have to have a recent, and good, graphics Card to be able to get 60+ FPS on PC. Not everyone owns that...
2. Difference is 16ms, like I described before. So every other influence is higher than a 30 FPS increase.

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 10:31 AM
What you still did not understand obviously: change the FPS to 60, have a bad TV - experience the same problems.

Let's compare prices:
- a decent PC with gaming Monitor: ~1,5k €
- Xbox One X with a decent TV: ~1,5k €

So, to get a good experience (small input lag), both players have to spend about the same amount of money. Yet it is false to tell Console players to buy a decent Monitor / TV? I don't understand, really. There was a reason I ignored you, should stick to it and not open your posts I guess...

Again, +30 FPS won't fix the majority of issues as many players who played on both Console and PC, with and without decent Monitors, have confirmed.

You may still have problems, but it goes a long way. Animations would still look smoother, more readable, thus giving players a better chance if they donít look at indicators.

I used my console as an example. Original xbox one can run 60fps.

Xbox one and monitor: 800AUD
You can get TVs for around 500-800AUD, so similar price

Pc and monitor: 2000AUD

I just googled PC desktops real quick and took the average price of what I saw, didnít look at specs or anything. This isnít taking into account that youíd have to buy a keyboard and mouse for PC, whereas a controller comes with the Xbox. So no, players donít have to spend the same amount of money, $1200 less actually.

Jeez dude, I never said it was false. I said I donít consider it good advice. Come on, seriously. Again you put words in my mouth. You love mentioning that you put me on ignore but I couldnít care less. Itís so irrelevant to this as we have already established dialogue, but you just canít help but bring it up. Toxic much?

That_guy44
08-10-2018, 10:36 AM
Charmzzz, I know you've seen the gif on here showing the difference between 15, 30, and 60 FPS. Smoother animations makes a huge difference.

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 10:44 AM
Alright, PC players paid ~1000$ more. Yet Console players want the same experience paying half the price. #seemslegit

It is, imo, the best advice you can give to a Console player to buy a decent TV / Monitor if he wants a better experience in ALL his games. The more reaction based the game is, the more he will benefit from it.

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 11:03 AM
Alright, PC players paid ~1000$ more. Yet Console players want the same experience paying half the price. #seemslegit

It is, imo, the best advice you can give to a Console player to buy a decent TV / Monitor if he wants a better experience in ALL his games. The more reaction based the game is, the more he will benefit from it.

Yes, but we paid the same price for the same game, but in reality there are entirely different due to FPS. What is so hard to understand about that?

It is advice, not going to deny that. But we shouldnít have to pay hundreds more when our hardware can already run 60fps, which is making a difference as already explained. Also as That_guy said, the gif is a great example.

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 11:55 AM
Yes, but we paid the same price for the same game, but in reality there are entirely different due to FPS. What is so hard to understand about that?

It is advice, not going to deny that. But we shouldn’t have to pay hundreds more when our hardware can already run 60fps, which is making a difference as already explained. Also as That_guy said, the gif is a great example.

Please show me evidence that your Console is capable of running the For Honor engine on 60 FPS. Maybe, just maybe, turning 60 FPS on for Consoles would lead to huge frame-drops? The engine (AnvilNext) is used for all the Assassins Creed Games and Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Games and they are capped to 30 FPS on Console, too.

As you can see, it is an Engine thing. And it is not the only Game running on 30 FPS on Console and 60 FPS on PC, a quick Google search found me hundreds of examples. The Consoles are just too weak to render 60 FPS in that quality.

And now don't come up with PS4 Pro or XBox One X, even if they would be capable of rendering 60 FPS (which they are not), you cannot allow some people to have higher FPS than others on the same platform.

David_gorda
08-10-2018, 12:06 PM
Game should be balanced for all platforms. Ubifail listen to the few competive players on PC that wanted them to break the defensive meta and now we console players need to deal with 400ms attacks and unblockables with lag lol. Wonder why peacekeeper was banned in tournaments in the early era Of the Game? Because his fast attack that even the best player couldnt defend against and now we have the same crap again but with more classes.

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 12:10 PM
Afaik they different input delays for Console and PC to fix the issue that 500ms Attacks can be cut down to ~400ms. So, in a way, they already balance the game differently for both platforms?

Btw 400ms Attacks are meant to be unreactable. They have to be predicted. The current Bug that static guard heroes can defend on reaction against a 400ms Attack after getting hit is, well, a Bug.

Armosias
08-10-2018, 12:13 PM
As a PC player who often plays with 40 or 30 FPS, I can tell that animations are indeed harder to see, yet I have no issues to block 400ms or parry 500ms attacks.

David_gorda
08-10-2018, 12:20 PM
And thats why People quiting. Most People dont enjoy getting lightspam to death by a 400ms no skill assassin player.

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 01:29 PM
Please show me evidence that your Console is capable of running the For Honor engine on 60 FPS. Maybe, just maybe, turning 60 FPS on for Consoles would lead to huge frame-drops? The engine (AnvilNext) is used for all the Assassins Creed Games and Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Games and they are capped to 30 FPS on Console, too.

As you can see, it is an Engine thing. And it is not the only Game running on 30 FPS on Console and 60 FPS on PC, a quick Google search found me hundreds of examples. The Consoles are just too weak to render 60 FPS in that quality.

And now don't come up with PS4 Pro or XBox One X, even if they would be capable of rendering 60 FPS (which they are not), you cannot allow some people to have higher FPS than others on the same platform.

My console is the Xbox one x, but then you say donít come up with PS4 Pro or Xbox one X...capable of rendering 60fps, so make up your mind.

Fortnite received a massive update that allowed 4K and 60FPS on consoles, a simple google search will reveal that.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2018/02/27/watch-fortnite-battle-royale-running-in-4k-and-60-fps-on-xbox-one-x/amp/

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurnane/2018/03/02/comparing-fortnites-60-fps-patch-on-the-xbox-and-playstation-consoles/amp/

You can see in the second article it clearly states PS4, Xbox one (as well as the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X) can stick to 60fps.

Vakris_One
08-10-2018, 01:34 PM
I recently learned that for honor can never have 60fps on console. I now also now that itís not ubi fault and they cant do anything about it. Iím sorry to say that for honor can no longer be competitive on console. With the 30 FPS restriction everybody just plays quick attack characters and wins. I would get a pc and play the beloved game but I donít have enough money. With out friends too I canít find other aspects to have fun in the game. So with that I am very displeased to put for honor in its grave for me and other console players. Thanks to connyc on twitch for giving me this info
One of the top competitive PC players recently went and won the console tournament and he had to adjust to playing with a controller (he plays mouse and keyboard) as well as the FPS and input lag differences. So at the competitive level the difference is manageable.

The difference between 30 FPS and 60 FPS is 33ms. It's actually quite negligible compared to the huge differences that a wired controller, wired internet and a gaming TV can produce. What the devs can do to settle this FPS arguement once and for all is give just the consoles an additional 33ms lag compensation. Then people will no longer be able to blame FPS as the main problem.

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 01:53 PM
My console is the Xbox one x, but then you say don’t come up with PS4 Pro or Xbox one X...capable of rendering 60fps, so make up your mind.

Fortnite received a massive update that allowed 4K and 60FPS on consoles, a simple google search will reveal that.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2018/02/27/watch-fortnite-battle-royale-running-in-4k-and-60-fps-on-xbox-one-x/amp/

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurnane/2018/03/02/comparing-fortnites-60-fps-patch-on-the-xbox-and-playstation-consoles/amp/

You can see in the second article it clearly states PS4, Xbox one (as well as the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X) can stick to 60fps.

Uhm, you give me an example of one game while I can show you hundreds of Games that only do 30 FPS on Console? Especially with the Anvil Engine (while Fortnite is Unreal Engine)?

So I read the first link, found this:
Fortnite also ran at a solid 30 frames per second — but that means that the upgrades to 4K and even to 60 frames per second aren’t earth-shattering. These are nice improvements to have, but if you were already playing on an Xbox One X, you may not notice much of a difference during gameplay.

Badum-tsss... Not much off a difference, exactly, 16ms more reaction time. ;)

Second link is about the same game (again, only one example?), and there I found this:
Solid 60 fps almost all of the time with drops that are generally too minor to be noticeable.

Alright, go with 60 FPS and occasional drops. Have fun adapting to even more wonky Attack indicators.

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 02:21 PM
Uhm, you give me an example of one game while I can show you hundreds of Games that only do 30 FPS on Console? Especially with the Anvil Engine (while Fortnite is Unreal Engine)?

So I read the first link, found this:

Badum-tsss... Not much off a difference, exactly, 16ms more reaction time. ;)

Second link is about the same game (again, only one example?), and there I found this:

Alright, go with 60 FPS and occasional drops. Have fun adapting to even more wonky Attack indicators.

Instead of quoting what only suits your agenda, why donít you quote that entire part where it says that happens only in the parachute phase whereas the rest of the game and the parts it actually counts (like in combat) run at 55-60fps on all consoles?

You never stated anything about which engine, you asked me to show you evidence which I did. You are again completely ignoring the fact that a gif was shown on these forums that displayed the differences between 15/30/60fps, and how much of a difference it makes.

Halo can run at 60fps, Forza, FIFA, WWE, NBA, Diablo, Outast, Tomb Raider, Gears of War, Uncharted, Call of Duty WW2/Infinite Warfare, DOOM, Minecraft, Titanfall 2, The Witcher, BF1, Dark souls 3, Hitman, Injustice 2, The last of us, Overwatch, No Mans Sky can all run up to 60fps.

Enough evidence?

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 02:34 PM
Instead of quoting what only suits your agenda, why don’t you quote that entire part where it says that happens only in the parachute phase whereas the rest of the game and the parts it actually counts (like in combat) run at 55-60fps on all consoles?

You never stated anything about which engine, you asked me to show you evidence which I did. You are again completely ignoring the fact that a gif was shown on these forums that displayed the differences between 15/30/60fps, and how much of a difference it makes.

Halo can run at 60fps, Forza, FIFA, WWE, NBA, Diablo, Outast, Tomb Raider, Gears of War, Uncharted, Call of Duty WW2/Infinite Warfare, DOOM, Minecraft, Titanfall 2, The Witcher, BF1, Dark souls 3, Hitman, Injustice 2, The last of us, Overwatch, No Mans Sky can all run up to 60fps.

Enough evidence?

Alright, compare Shooters with simple graphics, 2D Games, Race Simulators or Singleplay Games to For Honor. And I did mention the Engine in my earlier post (Page 2 in this Thread).

I give you that there are games who can run 60 FPS on Console, I never said that there are none. Just that there are much more running 30 FPS than 60 FPS.

I don't ignore the .gif that was shown just like you are not ignoring the fact that a PC player won a big tournament playing with 30 FPS and a Controller instead of KB+Mouse. ;)

Again: If the Engine cannot do it on the Console, or the Console is to weak to show it constantly, what you do? Go to "probably" 60 FPS with frame-drops? No way... The outrage would be even louder.

AzureSky.
08-10-2018, 07:44 PM
lol it's not about the input ms it's about the frames that you see, just being able to recognize a attack on the first frames it appear makes a huge difference, it's actually very big.

And no, anyone that watches content at 60 fps and says that there's no difference have a really bad dinamic motion vision on their eyes and should go to get them checked, i can understand someone that can't see the difference of 120 to 144fps tho.

Devils-_-legacy
08-10-2018, 08:09 PM
The ps4 and xbox could achieve 60fps imo ubisoft didnít want to drop the graphical quality on the console editions any further in favour of the higher fps was probably in favour of 30 because it was a easy goal for them.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-10-2018, 08:22 PM
Afaik they different input delays for Console and PC to fix the issue that 500ms Attacks can be cut down to ~400ms. So, in a way, they already balance the game differently for both platforms?

Btw 400ms Attacks are meant to be unreactable. They have to be predicted. The current Bug that static guard heroes can defend on reaction against a 400ms Attack after getting hit is, well, a Bug.

If it is true that 400ms lights are meant to be unreactable, that is completely wrong and it will end this games, sooner or later. This is a melee combat game, like in real life, you should be able to react on your opponent moves. Not predict them, because that is reserved for ceremonial martial arts exercises not actual fight. Who thinks fighting is more about predictions than reactions, is free to go in any bar and start a fight. Let's see how far you go with trying to predict someone's moves.

Statistically, you are already losing since opponent usually can throw attack in 3 different directions, or he can go for a GB. So chance of you predicting his move are 25%, without taking other options/moves into consideration. That is not how fighting game is supposed to work.

DefiledDragon
08-10-2018, 08:59 PM
Average human reaction time to visual stimulus is .25 seconds, or 250 ms. A 400 ms attack is reactable, all other things being equal. Things however are not equal because you have to take ping into account and any input lag from wireless devices etc... If you have a combined ping of 50 (25 for you and 25 for your opponent) and a 30 ms delay on control input, that 400 ms attack has just become a 320 ms attack. Still reactable, but a much smaller window. Most players I see have pings in the 30 - 50 range, mine is usually between 10 and 20 (ethernet cables ftw). If two people on WiFi have pings of 50, that's 100 ms, plus 30 ms input lag and now that 400 ms attack has a reaction window of 270 ms. It's not all about framerate.

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 11:17 PM
Alright, compare Shooters with simple graphics, 2D Games, Race Simulators or Singleplay Games to For Honor. And I did mention the Engine in my earlier post (Page 2 in this Thread).

I give you that there are games who can run 60 FPS on Console, I never said that there are none. Just that there are much more running 30 FPS than 60 FPS.

I don't ignore the .gif that was shown just like you are not ignoring the fact that a PC player won a big tournament playing with 30 FPS and a Controller instead of KB+Mouse. ;)

Again: If the Engine cannot do it on the Console, or the Console is to weak to show it constantly, what you do? Go to "probably" 60 FPS with frame-drops? No way... The outrage would be even louder.

Itís just plain wrong to say games like BF1, COD and Gears of War are shooters with simple graphics. Graphics are easily on par with FH in those games, and map sizes in multiplayer dwarfs anything For Honor can put out.

Iím not talking about players at the competitive level though. Iím talking the average joe who gets to spend 2 hours a day playing on weekdays, not someone whose life is dedicated to been a competitive gamer. You did ignore the gif though, seeing as this is the first time youíve responded to it after itís been brought up 3 times already. If you arenít ignoring it, why canít you acknowledge that the gif showed much smoother looks and many people said it makes a difference? Are we all under the same placebo effect?

What could you do, you could do what Vakris said. Balance console and PC seperately by giving console and extra 33ms of Lag Comp.

That_guy44
08-10-2018, 11:35 PM
Don't forget those times are for when an attack lands. You have even less time to parry. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the party window open around ~150 ms before the attack lands? So if a 400 ms attack is launched, you have to be able to parry by 250 ms. And that's with a perfect world. That doesn't factor in input lag or guard switch delay for some characters. So it's very possible to block these fast lights, but near psychic if you want to get a parry off with the strict timing.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 12:33 AM
Don't forget those times are for when an attack lands. You have even less time to party. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the party window open around ~150 ms before the attack lands? So if a 400 ms attack is launched, you have to be able to parry by 250 ms. And that's with a perfect world. That doesn't factor in input lag or guard switch delay for some characters. So it's very possible to block these fast lights, but near psychic if you want to get a party off with the strict timing.

Yeah, parrying 400ms lights on reaction online against people with average pings using wireless controllers isn't something you should expect to be doing with any regularity ime.

Kaijudub
08-12-2018, 02:15 AM
Tbh game feels terrible on console currently.. Its 1 million miles away from playing against bots animation wise i'm not even sure how you expect new people to even make the transition to online play... Its not fun, its not stable and its not going to change.

I'm done, bored of coming back to the same old ****.

dinosaurlicker
08-12-2018, 05:11 AM
Devs need to slow lights and bashes down 100ms. 500ms should be the fastest. 95% of the playerbase is on fckin console so why is it being balanced for the nonexistent PC playerbase?

Vakris_One
08-12-2018, 02:40 PM
Devs need to slow lights and bashes down 100ms. 500ms should be the fastest. 95% of the playerbase is on fckin console so why is it being balanced for the nonexistent PC playerbase?
Because an N64 console killed Roman's parents when he was a child in a terrible Donkey Kong related accident.

Alustar.exe
08-12-2018, 03:25 PM
I've played on console, I now play on PC.
There is barely any noticeable difference in animations, and no difference in the time required to block. If you are bad at blocking and parrying, more fps is not going to make you better. It's just going to show you sucking in HD.
Maybe you see need to practice more.

bannex19
08-12-2018, 03:29 PM
I play on both, there is most definitely a difference.

That_guy44
08-12-2018, 04:39 PM
Alustar is clearly having a laugh