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View Full Version : Devs want dancing ballerinas and not Warriors



Jastorm187
08-09-2018, 01:33 AM
Simply put, the choices for the updates for this game are biased and focused on making twirling tinkerbell ballerina characters stronger than the brute force warriors.

Lets look at what the devs have done. ALL of the buffs and reworks for the better have been done to these spinning "finesses" style characters. They love assassins and hybrids and that's about it. They have either nerfed or ignored all the large brute powerhouse characters even with their in games physics choices.

Raider, Warlord, Shugoki, Lawbringer and Conqueror have all be ignored, and when they get attention its always a nerf. An assassin complains and nerf the big brute.
If Orochi was really to try a spin dodge into a side attack against a warlord/Conq that wasn't swinging, that shield guard break would plant him firmly on his ***, not miss to get hit.
If a beserker tries his spinning chop against a LB/Shug/Raider when they weren't in the middle of a swing, they would get crosschecked into a lovely mud puddle.
Dodge attacks on a character that isn't swinging should not work, they are just food for the spammers.

More proof they hate heavies, the latest hit to Punch through, it was abused, that's true but instead of changing the character (heaven forbid they rework a heavy) they just nerfed the feat... just like they nerfed the heal on block... because the light spammers didn't like that the heavies could get health back...

More proof you say, okay look at ALL of the DLC Characters.... No heavies.. no Vanguards... only hybrids and assassins. The one DLC that even comes close is the Highlander... giant weapon, big damaging swings.. slow run speed.... oh but wait... he spins and twirls like a big ballerina and can spam unblockables faster than any other character in the game (He can spam two unblockable top heavies in less time than Shug/Conq/Raider can do one... Lawbringer needs a three hit combo for his and Warlord doesn't even have one) ... there is Ubi's love of spam and twirling again. Lets look at more of the DLC characters... they even gave the trait of the heavies of being able to push and throw people around to the Centurion.. and the SHAMAN... wait.. an assassin that can hit you back as far as a warlord... and WAY further than the conquerer could ever wish too... Cent still has the spammy ways.. and shaman still has the spinny ways... hurray. More hybrids and assassins.

I know what you are thinking "Warden and Kensei got their rework" Well lets look how they fit in.
Kensei: has super fast light pokes, and spins and twirls around the map with Dodge attacks just like orochi… so ya he fits the ballerina side of getting a rework.

Warden: lets face it, if you look at the facts... Warden was supposed to be a Hybrid that for some reason they changed their mind last minute. The knights release should have been Conq at Vanguard, Lawbringer at Heavy, PK at assassin and Warden at Hybrid. Proof is in the pic below of the three TRUE Vanguards. More proof, Conq is the only heavy that excels at taking out minions and even has the "Body Count" Feat left on him from when he was supposed to be the warden.

So once again outside of the twirly kensei… the TRUE Vanguard and Heavies get outnumbered... get ignored... and don't even get acknowledged that they need help as every time someone complains that they can't spam us and we work past these issues, we get nerfed/ignored again.

Oh and once last note... seeing the previews of the new "Vanguard".. guess what... he has dodges within dodges, twirly attacks oh and the ability to throw people across the map... yep seems like the way the devs love it.. twirly ballerina style, no brute force. Wonder how slow and awful they are going to make the new heavy... because lets face it.. how could we have a heavy that can compete with the meta of spammy and twirly… unheard of!


http://assets1.ignimgs.com/2017/02/14/forhonor-1280-1487032030525_1280w.jpg

PepsiBeastin
08-09-2018, 01:36 AM
Didn't read most of this, just here to complain that I just fought the new warden and it's honestly dumb. Not only is he seriously spammy, his shoulder bash animation looks horrible and his lights are literally just his old animation but sped up, they look unnatural. It feels like every character is just going to be fast lights and spammable bashes soon honestly.

DefiledDragon
08-09-2018, 01:52 AM
They want to hit the competitive gaming market. I think they're under the illusion that people find slow, tactical fights boring and they want to see fast paced, backflippy, spin kicky, blinding fast slashes all the time and nothing could be further from the truth. You only have to watch a pro Tekken matchup to see how excited people get when two fighters are facing off, circling each other and looking for an opening. I honestly don't think For Honor will ever be taken seriously enough to get a foothold in Evo or anywhere else for that matter. They just don't seem to be able to balance the game at all and all they keep doing is cranking up the pace.

Jastorm187
08-09-2018, 01:57 AM
They want to hit the competitive gaming market. I think they're under the illusion that people find slow, tactical fights boring and they want to see fast paced, backflippy, spin kicky, blinding fast slashes all the time and nothing could be further from the truth. You only have to watch a pro Tekken matchup to see how excited people get when two fighters are facing off, circling each other and looking for an opening. I honestly don't think For Honor will ever be taken seriously enough to get a foothold in Evo or anywhere else for that matter. They just don't seem to be able to balance the game at all and all they keep doing is cranking up the pace.

Agreed, their fix to the turtle meta of trying to plan and find a way through a defense is make it too quick to respond which turns into this spam meta. The speeds are already getting to that point on console, add in uninterruptable to the spamming and it just makes it worse as if you are lucky enough to get a block, it doesn't stop them.
Honestly even the paper rock scissors of Attack > GB > Dodge > Attack is broken when I see dodge attacks going around GBs all the time and getting hit by attacks that are obviously dodged but the tracking is broken. They have broken core mechanics by speeding it up past the pace it should be at.

DefiledDragon
08-09-2018, 02:03 AM
Agreed, their fix to the turtle meta of trying to plan and find a way through a defense is make it too quick to respond which turns into this spam meta. The speeds are already getting to that point on console, add in uninterruptable to the spamming and it just makes it worse as if you are lucky enough to get a block, it doesn't stop them.
Honestly even the paper rock scissors of Attack > GB > Dodge > Attack is broken when I see dodge attacks going around GBs all the time and getting hit by attacks that are obviously dodged but the tracking is broken. They have broken core mechanics by speeding it up past the pace it should be at.

Yeah, their solution to the turtle meta lacks imagination, no doubt about that.

HazelrahFirefly
08-09-2018, 02:11 AM
OP's post has a ton of weird stuff in it... but all anyone looking for a summary needs is this: states that Conq was only ignored or nerfed, meanwhile he received the strongest rework and is typically thought of as the most OP hero.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
08-09-2018, 03:26 AM
OP's post has a ton of weird stuff in it... but all anyone looking for a summary needs is this: states that Conq was only ignored or nerfed, meanwhile he received the strongest rework and is typically thought of as the most OP hero.
I agree and disagree... The thing is if conquerer is so overpowered why don't you see more of them in dominion? Something doesn't add up. He was reworked and not neglected though: that u agree on.

DefiledDragon
08-09-2018, 03:31 AM
OP's post has a ton of weird stuff in it... but all anyone looking for a summary needs is this: states that Conq was only ignored or nerfed, meanwhile he received the strongest rework and is typically thought of as the most OP hero.

Yeah, that's not quite what he said. A more accurate summary would be that the pace of the game is moving steadily upwards and the new faction look like nothing but more super fast, super agile characters and they do.

MarshalMoriarty
08-09-2018, 06:04 AM
Conq doesn't have the kind of hyperactive (and hyperarmored) pace that many Dominion players want. He can attack fast, but feels kind of rooted to the spot and he can't fluidly move through a group fight or chase people down well. Plus Feats, ganks etc are a good way of opening him.

He can still excel at Dominion in a boosting and support capacity, but I suspect most people prefer tearing around the map moving and attacking with absurdly fast dash attacks and throwing out mix ups at supersonic spedds.

Basically, he's a powerful character but not a very attractive one playstyle wise in Dominion. I imagine he's more popular in duel, brawls etc but even then he kind of just looks like one of those minion captains. He's one of the least flashy or cool looking heroes. He looks tough, but he doesn't have the same presence as most of the roster IMO.

bannex19
08-09-2018, 06:37 AM
Boy I came here hoping he was going to make fun of the new "so you think you can dance" faction coming from China but I was unfortunately let down by a stream of nonsense.

Is the game perfect? Nope. Is it better than the vast majority of people on the forums here should lead you to believe? Yup. This is coming from a Warlord (since beta) main.

As far as reworks... I think the warden rework is actually great. He's a lot more fun to play now. The orochi and peacekeeper feel terrible which is sad because they're very cool concepts. It feels like the valk does wayyy too much damage now. The kensei needs his numbers toned down and soft feints need to use more stam across the board. The conq feels like cent 0.8 he's 80% as frustrating to play against. The zerk needs a damage nerf.

I think the shaman is still by far the worst hero to fight against. She looks dumb, sounds dumb and having a wirey little girl run around like a dog on the battlefield is really f ing stupid.

ChampionRuby50g
08-09-2018, 06:55 AM
Yeah, that's not quite what he said. A more accurate summary would be that the pace of the game is moving steadily upwards and the new faction look like nothing but more super fast, super agile characters and they do.


Umm, that’s exactly what he said.

“Raider, Warlord, Shugoki, Lawbringer and Conqueror have all be ignored, and when they get attention its always a nerf. An assassin complains and nerf the big brute. ” Conq hasn’t been ignored, in fact he was one of the first to get reworked and it did the exact opposite off nerfing him, instead bumped his winrate to the highest in the game at 60%, so you could even argue he’s the best hero in the game. Doesn’t sound like ignoring or nerfing to me.


Didn't read most of this, just here to complain that I just fought the new warden and it's honestly dumb. Not only is he seriously spammy, his shoulder bash animation looks horrible and his lights are literally just his old animation but sped up, they look unnatural. It feels like every character is just going to be fast lights and spammable bashes soon honestly.

I actually like the new SB animation. Instead of just gliding along the ground, Warden actually runs into the SB. Light animation was changed for the double strike, probably only looks unnatural because you’ve been used to seeing the old ones for over a year now. If Warden is seriously spammy, what does that make Aramusha and Orochi? If anything he’s less spammy, as his SB (which is what was considered the spammiest thing about Warden) was changed and you can’t really get stuck in the vortex now if you know what you’re doing.

chukblok
08-09-2018, 08:28 AM
I also like the warden rework...but the OP has valid points. i get what he is saying. And i fear the chinese faction will be a nightmare to face if you play a heavy. The problem is now these new faster pace hero’s have set the bar..and now they have no choice to keep up with that. so what do you do? bring out more assassin type moves.
I love the old stare downs. Anyhow ill keep playing my raider and warlord and keep losing..im terrible at it anyways but that doesnt make it any less frustrating to get spammed to death by an orochi.

Charmzzz
08-09-2018, 08:31 AM
Stopped reading when OP complained about Raider, Warlord, Shugoki, Lawbringer and Conqueror all being ignored and only nerfed.

Bro, Raider and Lawbringer are the Top Dogs in Dominion for ages. Warlord was one of the best Characters in the game for at least 6 months last year. And Conq, boy, Conq got buffed so stupidly hard that he topped the Duel Winrate with 60% last Season. Yeah, only Nerfs... Look at Nobu (a Hybrid) and PK (Dancing Ballerina) - they got nerfed heavily in the last 2 Seasons...

Darkmight_cz
08-09-2018, 08:50 AM
Simply put, the choices for the updates for this game are biased and focused on making twirling tinkerbell ballerina characters stronger than the brute force warriors.

Lets look at what the devs have done. ALL of the buffs and reworks for the better have been done to these spinning "finesses" style characters. They love assassins and hybrids and that's about it. They have either nerfed or ignored all the large brute powerhouse characters even with their in games physics choices.

Raider, Warlord, Shugoki, Lawbringer and Conqueror have all be ignored, and when they get attention its always a nerf. An assassin complains and nerf the big brute.
If Orochi was really to try a spin dodge into a side attack against a warlord/Conq that wasn't swinging, that shield guard break would plant him firmly on his ***, not miss to get hit.
If a beserker tries his spinning chop against a LB/Shug/Raider when they weren't in the middle of a swing, they would get crosschecked into a lovely mud puddle.
Dodge attacks on a character that isn't swinging should not work, they are just food for the spammers.

More proof they hate heavies, the latest hit to Punch through, it was abused, that's true but instead of changing the character (heaven forbid they rework a heavy) they just nerfed the feat... just like they nerfed the heal on block... because the light spammers didn't like that the heavies could get health back...

More proof you say, okay look at ALL of the DLC Characters.... No heavies.. no Vanguards... only hybrids and assassins. The one DLC that even comes close is the Highlander... giant weapon, big damaging swings.. slow run speed.... oh but wait... he spins and twirls like a big ballerina and can spam unblockables faster than any other character in the game (He can spam two unblockable top heavies in less time than Shug/Conq/Raider can do one... Lawbringer needs a three hit combo for his and Warlord doesn't even have one) ... there is Ubi's love of spam and twirling again. Lets look at more of the DLC characters... they even gave the trait of the heavies of being able to push and throw people around to the Centurion.. and the SHAMAN... wait.. an assassin that can hit you back as far as a warlord... and WAY further than the conquerer could ever wish too... Cent still has the spammy ways.. and shaman still has the spinny ways... hurray. More hybrids and assassins.

I know what you are thinking "Warden and Kensei got their rework" Well lets look how they fit in.
Kensei: has super fast light pokes, and spins and twirls around the map with Dodge attacks just like orochi… so ya he fits the ballerina side of getting a rework.

Warden: lets face it, if you look at the facts... Warden was supposed to be a Hybrid that for some reason they changed their mind last minute. The knights release should have been Conq at Vanguard, Lawbringer at Heavy, PK at assassin and Warden at Hybrid. Proof is in the pic below of the three TRUE Vanguards. More proof, Conq is the only heavy that excels at taking out minions and even has the "Body Count" Feat left on him from when he was supposed to be the warden.

So once again outside of the twirly kensei… the TRUE Vanguard and Heavies get outnumbered... get ignored... and don't even get acknowledged that they need help as every time someone complains that they can't spam us and we work past these issues, we get nerfed/ignored again.

Oh and once last note... seeing the previews of the new "Vanguard".. guess what... he has dodges within dodges, twirly attacks oh and the ability to throw people across the map... yep seems like the way the devs love it.. twirly ballerina style, no brute force. Wonder how slow and awful they are going to make the new heavy... because lets face it.. how could we have a heavy that can compete with the meta of spammy and twirly… unheard of!


http://assets1.ignimgs.com/2017/02/14/forhonor-1280-1487032030525_1280w.jpg

Agree with many things here. The idea to fix turtle metal by spaming bashes UB and lightning fast att is really stupid. Since season 1 everyone complained about lightning fast PK etc still developers think its a good idea to go this way. 😲 just sad

Charmzzz
08-09-2018, 08:55 AM
Agree with many things here. The idea to fix turtle metal by spaming bashes UB and lightning fast att is really stupid. Since season 1 everyone complained about lightning fast PK etc still developers think its a good idea to go this way. �� just sad

But PK is not "lightning" fast. There are plenty of other 400 and 500ms Moves in the game, on almost every Character. And that is a good thing, if you would slower all the Moves no one would ever hit anything. Fighting Games are Reaction- and Prediction-based, that's just how it is in this genre.

CandleInTheDark
08-09-2018, 09:04 AM
They want to hit the competitive gaming market. I think they're under the illusion that people find slow, tactical fights boring

I was on the forum when they did 1v1 tournaments at the launch streams, that is exactly what people were saying, loudly and often. I was also on reddit during the second of the big 1v1 tournaments, same there (though tech exploits got more noise and rightly so), so the vocal playerbase at least have very much been putting out that view.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-09-2018, 10:00 AM
But PK is not "lightning" fast. There are plenty of other 400 and 500ms Moves in the game, on almost every Character. And that is a good thing, if you would slower all the Moves no one would ever hit anything. Fighting Games are Reaction- and Prediction-based, that's just how it is in this genre.

Reaction based? On these "servers"? Are you f. kidding me?

Charmzzz
08-09-2018, 10:42 AM
Reaction based? On these "servers"? Are you f. kidding me?

Don't know where you are playing, but on PC - Europe and a good Provider I hover around Ping 15-20.

Devils-_-legacy
08-09-2018, 10:48 AM
Don't know where you are playing, but on PC - Europe and a good Provider I hover around Ping 15-20.

Then you get matched against someone exceeding 100+

Charmzzz
08-09-2018, 10:49 AM
Then you get matched against someone exceeding 100+

And that's a problem of the Servers, right? ;)

Devils-_-legacy
08-09-2018, 10:50 AM
And that's a problem of the Servers, right? ;)

You got me there its More there matchmaking parameters

Armosias
08-09-2018, 11:17 AM
You got me there its More there matchmaking parameters
Or maybe just the players?

NHLGoldenKnight
08-09-2018, 11:30 AM
And that's a problem of the Servers, right? ;)
Of course it is. Why not limit the max ping player can have? Crazy idea, right?

NHLGoldenKnight
08-09-2018, 11:34 AM
Don't know where you are playing, but on PC - Europe and a good Provider I hover around Ping 15-20.

On ps4, game is completely broken. I play i USA (West Coast ) and my ping is not the best, but it is still between 30 and 35 on most days. But even when no one has ping higher than 50, sometimes game is so lagy and glitchy? I just played with group where no one had ping higher than 60 yet game was unplayable. I had to execute guy 3 times and he still stayed alive. F..... crazy in 2018 from a triple A studio.

Devils-_-legacy
08-09-2018, 11:37 AM
Or maybe just the players?

Not really if the matchmaking incorporated ping rate in how they pair people that would be ideal fair for everyone then

Charmzzz
08-09-2018, 11:47 AM
Not really if the matchmaking incorporated ping rate in how they pair people that would be ideal fair for everyone then

Iirc the ping difference always was and still is a Matchmaking factor. But it has limitations, you really don't want to put a Top 3% Player with Ping 90 in Matches against mediocre Players, even if they have similar Pings.

Tyrfing_.
08-09-2018, 12:09 PM
Did not read all of the comments, but I personally prefer the quick, more "dancing" like style as compared to any other.

JOHN19812017
08-09-2018, 12:23 PM
this is so true all you have to do is look at shugoki's heavy dmg. he has a massive club slow movement you would think he would hit like a truck but no. imo if a shugo hit you it should be the hardest hit in the game by far. yeah he has a unblockable that hits hard but its the slowest hit in the game and is just parry bait. i would love to know all characters DPS i bet all the heavys are the lowest and all fast characters are top

Armosias
08-09-2018, 12:31 PM
Actually Shugoki's charged heavy has the highest damages of all moves in the game, with 60, followed by Shaman's bite and Orochi's deflect heavy which deals 50.

JOHN19812017
08-09-2018, 12:41 PM
Actually Shugoki's charged heavy has the highest damages of all moves in the game, with 60, followed by Shaman's bite and Orochi's deflect heavy which deals 50.

this is true shogo has the hardest hit in the game but its also tthe slowest and just gets parryed or dodged to easily

Jazz117Volkov
08-09-2018, 12:54 PM
Simply put, the choices for the updates for this game are biased and focused on making twirling tinkerbell ballerina characters stronger than the brute force warriors.Except for the bit where Conquer is considered the strongest character in the game.


Raider, Warlord, Shugoki, Lawbringer and Conqueror have all be ignored, and when they get attention its always a nerf. An assassin complains and nerf the big brute. If Orochi was really to try a spin dodge into a side attack against a warlord/Conq that wasn't swinging, that shield guard break would plant him firmly on his ***, not miss to get hit.
If a beserker tries his spinning chop against a LB/Shug/Raider when they weren't in the middle of a swing, they would get crosschecked into a lovely mud puddle.
Dodge attacks on a character that isn't swinging should not work, they are just food for the spammers.Umm...bait them. Dodge attacks can't be feinted. If you're getting hit by an Orochi Zephyr strike from neutral it's because you're really bad at the game. Otherwise you're getting hit by them during an action, which is as you described.

Additionally, Peacekeeper got a major adjustment recently, which included a damage nerf. Warlord was considered one of the strongest characters for ages in the early days; he got nerfed hard but they haven't gotten to his update yet. The parry changes have put him in a weak spot also. This is a patience issue; look at the pick rate for the heroes and the order they get updated will begin to make sense.

Otherwise your manner of describing these things indicate a few personal issues I don't fancy going near, so...good day, I suppose.


I know what you are thinking "Warden and Kensei got their rework" Well lets look how they fit in.
Kensei: has super fast light pokes, and spins and twirls around the map with Dodge attacks just like orochi… so ya he fits the ballerina side of getting a rework.

Warden: lets face it, if you look at the facts... Warden was supposed to be a Hybrid that for some reason they changed their mind last minute. The knights release should have been Conq at Vanguard, Lawbringer at Heavy, PK at assassin and Warden at Hybrid. Proof is in the pic below of the three TRUE Vanguards. More proof, Conq is the only heavy that excels at taking out minions and even has the "Body Count" Feat left on him from when he was supposed to be the warden.

So once again outside of the twirly kensei… the TRUE Vanguard and Heavies get outnumbered... get ignored... and don't even get acknowledged that they need help as every time someone complains that they can't spam us and we work past these issues, we get nerfed/ignored again.

This...this is just dumb. Please do a little research before making ridiculous claims. Not only is the Warden absolutely the Knight's vanguard and Conquer absolutely the Knight heavy, and their attributes completely fall in-line with those roles, but the Warden was the first character designed for the game and she was the poster girl for all the original artwork. I suppose she just didn't focus test that well once J.V. left the team and the game's identity began dissolving.


original poster
Kensei, Raider, Warden: all the vanguards.
https://www.gamestop.com/gs/images/content-pdp/for-honor/fh_campaign.jpg

cgi story trailer
Kensei, Raider, Warden: all the vanguards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX1QgJZXE7k

Charmzzz
08-09-2018, 01:04 PM
this is so true all you have to do is look at shugoki's heavy dmg. he has a massive club slow movement you would think he would hit like a truck but no. imo if a shugo hit you it should be the hardest hit in the game by far. yeah he has a unblockable that hits hard but its the slowest hit in the game and is just parry bait. i would love to know all characters DPS i bet all the heavys are the lowest and all fast characters are top

There you go buddy, sorry to burst your bubble: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=0


Actually Shugoki's charged heavy has the highest damages of all moves in the game, with 60, followed by Shaman's bite and Orochi's deflect heavy which deals 50.

Just for completeness: Raider chained Zone deals 50 Damage, too. Every other Move is below that.

Darkmight_cz
08-09-2018, 01:15 PM
Yes heavyes are hard hitters but slowest also so does it help when you can hit for 60 dmg certainly not. Why? Coz everyone dances around you like balerinas no one even bother anymore to parry they just dodge or light spam you out of that hit that's all. 😉
Yesterday I played dom vs valk and she just w8 for my att and then used light att for 27dmg (400,500ms) att worth of raiders zone from neutral well that's just great 😝

Charmzzz
08-09-2018, 01:27 PM
Yes heavyes are hard hitters but slowest also so does it help when you can hit for 60 dmg certainly not. Why? Coz everyone dances around you like balerinas no one even bother anymore to parry they just dodge or light spam you out of that hit that's all. ��
Yesterday I played dom vs valk and she just w8 for my att and then used light att for 27dmg (400,500ms) att worth of raiders zone from neutral well that's just great ��

Finally you have to do other things than Zone / chain Zone! :p

Maybe run away to Stampede-Gank someone? That's how 99% of Raiders play, sooo... :D

Darkmight_cz
08-09-2018, 01:40 PM
Finally you have to do other things than Zone / chain Zone! :p

Maybe run away to Stampede-Gank someone? That's how 99% of Raiders play, sooo... :D

Lol man you are funny again you just complaining all the time about raiders zone and stampede charge only 2 usable moves which raider has 😁 also only in 4v4 coz they are useless in 1v1 as whole Raider and every heavy char except conq maybe. We all know that you are defending assassins PK especially and its ok it's your opinion. But if you really think that heavyes are in good spot in current meta then you must be blind, dumb or troll
No offense.

Hormly
08-09-2018, 01:49 PM
Wait till you see the Chinese vanguard, pure balerina

yfkutfui
08-09-2018, 04:09 PM
Finally you have to do other things than Zone / chain Zone! :p

Maybe run away to Stampede-Gank someone? That's how 99% of Raiders play, sooo... :D

pray tell exactly what other myriad of moves does the Raider have to call upon?

his unique move is...............the stun tap variation,
he has the most known and parried unblockable in the game, to the point now that using it is basically detrimental to the Raider player, and the stampede charge/carry

that's it, nothing else nada, the fact that he's as successful as he is is a testament to the people that use him,

where's his uninterruptable moves? his crushing counterstrikes? his unblockables from different directions? his bleeds? his deflects? his all-block into guaranteed grab kick punch etc etc....? his BS feats? (I'm looking at you Orochi. with your kai kunia BS and you LB with more bombs than the Luftwaffe & Bomber command put together) oh look I'm a Raider, I can can sprint boost for 5 seconds and deploy the bear trap that since the nerf hammer was put on it is so pathetic and useless that it couldn't trap a rep 1noob who's texting a friend while scratching his a$$ and soldier boost, they fight faster??? whoopee! I'm wrecking soldiers!!!!

he is bare bones, maybe only the shug is comparable with such a minimum move set. the raider is all about mind games built solely around one 50/50,

that's it! not the incessant 400ms light spam spin dodge bite revive hyper-armour bleed poke toe stamp BS of most of the other characters, that Raiders can do so much with so little is like I say a testament to them

Devils-_-legacy
08-09-2018, 07:28 PM
Iirc the ping difference always was and still is a Matchmaking factor. But it has limitations, you really don't want to put a Top 3% Player with Ping 90 in Matches against mediocre Players, even if they have similar Pings.

Are you sure? I didn't even know they factored it into matchmaking but im constantly paired with people beyond a 100 or 200 ping rate well I sit between 20 30 it's frustrating

NHLGoldenKnight
08-09-2018, 08:15 PM
Wait till you see the Chinese vanguard, pure balerina

Yeah, that guy is going to drive me nuts. As I understand, he already has dodge attack that covers large area and rapidly changes his direction but on top of that he can cancel it and commit to opposite side performing another dodge attack? Area he is able to cover is insane. And his kick literally can send you to the moon and back.

I am going to play him simply because I play Heavy/Vanguard class plus Lawbringer. But he is going to be frustrating, Kensei on steroids.

Illyrian_King
08-09-2018, 09:43 PM
I as a LB main really fear for his rework ...

In my eyes many problems would have been solved in heavy classes just got higher block damage by default and ways to be resistant to parries or neutralize them at least.

This way slower classes could remain slow, but punchy and it would still like half-way realistic and cool.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-09-2018, 10:56 PM
Yeah, it is definitely interesting how they balance some heroes. For instance, Lawbringer has nice move set imo, but he is too slow. However, instead of speeding him up unrealistically, why just don't increase his block damage, give him HA options on more attacks? Increase damage little bit?

On the other side, we have someone like Berserker who can dance, has a large damage stats, HA on almost everything and revenge feat?

Btw, why assasins have revenge feat? Have devs ever explained the logic behind this, because it really doesn't make sense.

ChampionRuby50g
08-10-2018, 01:33 AM
Yeah the revenge feat on assassins really bugs me. I was doing a 3v1 yesterday, killed two of my opponents and then the 3rd opponent who was a PK somehow got revenge and then killed me and revived their two dead ally’s. Got cheated out of an awesome fight.

Helnekromancer
08-10-2018, 02:14 AM
Yea with PK all you have to do is attack 2-3 times and block a couple of hits and you have Revenge. Once you gave that if the enemy swings just grab him and stab his kidney.

And with Berserker it's just as nasty, just dives into 3 people, pops revenge and just keeps swinging. Can't stand that guy, whose bright idea was it to to give a ASSASSIN super armor on EVERY heavy swing.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-10-2018, 02:45 AM
Yeah, I think there is an issue with revenge in general and feat as well.

1. Revenge system is getting abused. It seems that everyone is building heroe on revenge and then purposely dive into 3 or 4 players without being chased. System should serve as protection only, not as a tool to get cheap kills. If I just block Berserker 2 or 3 times, he already activates revenge. Combine that with his damage stats and HA and it is one really OP build for 4v4 modes.

2. I still don't get why revenge meter is filling up during 1v1 combat. For a long time number of players were asking for that to be removed yet we didn't hear from devs.

3. Even if they want to keep revenge as a feat, it would make so much more sense that only couple of slowest and biggest guys get that feat. Shugo, Lawbringer, maybe Warlord. They are slow and you can get away in you don't want to fight, yet they would be able to protect themselves because they can't outrun team of 4 ganking assasins. For an assasin to have that feat, really makes no sense, imo.

NinjaRonin85
08-10-2018, 03:48 AM
Bring back the dance of Death

MarshalMoriarty
08-10-2018, 05:02 AM
The thing with assassins getting revenge easily is because they think assassins need it to offset low HP. Which is also presumably how they justified making assassins the fastest moving, fastest striking, highest damage, most agile class and who have the overwhelming monopoly on debuffs.

They've never understood that all these advantages mean assassins HP is rarely a big factor. Their HP are still too high to justify the galaxy of advantages they enjoy.

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 08:01 AM
Yea with PK all you have to do is attack 2-3 times and block a couple of hits and you have Revenge. Once you gave that if the enemy swings just grab him and stab his kidney.

And with Berserker it's just as nasty, just dives into 3 people, pops revenge and just keeps swinging. Can't stand that guy, whose bright idea was it to to give a ASSASSIN super armor on EVERY heavy swing.

In Revenge EVERYONE has Hyperarmor Dude... And btw, Zerker does not get Hyperarmor on his first swing. Like never. He get's Hyperarmor on his 2nd swing.

Season 6 Recap is around the corner, let's wait and see. My bet on Win % for Dominion:
1. Lawbringer
2. Kensei
3. Raider
4. Shaman

So the first 3 places won't be an Assassin, just like it was in S5. They must be massively OP, right? ^^

NHLGoldenKnight
08-10-2018, 10:46 AM
And it is really hard to get second swing with Berserker, right?

In terms of season 6 win %, how do they get the data? Based on match win as a team or k/d ratio?
Also, how large is the sample they are pulling data from?

Charmzzz
08-10-2018, 10:58 AM
And it is really hard to get second swing with Berserker, right?

In terms of season 6 win %, how do they get the data? Based on match win as a team or k/d ratio?
Also, how large is the sample they are pulling data from?

I just corrected false information. Never said it was hard to get Zerker rolling.

Your other questions:
- they create statistics with all Duel-Matches played by the top 2.5% players on PC and Console combined (according to their skill rating)
- for Dominion: top 4% players on PC and Console combined
- how many Matches were played is not mentioned, but my guess would be several thousands

S4 Recap: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-320343-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32
S5 Recap: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-325754-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

NHLGoldenKnight
08-10-2018, 11:29 AM
Well, I can already see possible issues with those numbers.

For Dominion, combined 4% can produce different numbers depending on how many players are coming from PC and how many from PS4. Guys on PC have easier time blocking and parrying which could skew results.

Also, win % ( if based on team who won the match) wouldn't tell a whole lot in 4v4. So many times, my team would win only because we were more organized and controlled the zones better but other team actually kicked out butts. But because they were more interested in chasing us and killing us, they would still lose at the end. So looking win ratio like that is flawed, if that is way they look at it. Maybe it's not.
It would be much more interesting if those numbers show K/D ratio in Dominion, or average number of takedowns per assassins compared to other classes. Because what I see in my gameplay ( ps4, USA West Coast ) is dominant performance of assasins in Dominion when it comes to takedowns. Hybrids are most likely second closest to assasins with Vanguards and Heavies trailing behind. Of course, my observation applies to everyone playing the game in my area since I don't know who is top 4% and who isn't.

I know it wouldn't be completely accurate but I always wanted to just start taking screen shots after every dominion for couple of weeks and then put the results in Excel and build a spreadsheet. It would give good idea who performs how on "peasant " level and data could be even more manipulated for extra things we want to find out.

Armosias
08-10-2018, 12:05 PM
Well, I can already see possible issues with those numbers.

For Dominion, combined 4% can produce different numbers depending on how many players are coming from PC and how many from PS4. Guys on PC have easier time blocking and parrying which could skew results.

Also, win % ( if based on team who won the match) wouldn't tell a whole lot in 4v4. So many times, my team would win only because we were more organized and controlled the zones better but other team actually kicked out butts. But because they were more interested in chasing us and killing us, they would still lose at the end. So looking win ratio like that is flawed, if that is way they look at it. Maybe it's not.
It would be much more interesting if those numbers show K/D ratio in Dominion, or average number of takedowns per assassins compared to other classes. Because what I see in my gameplay ( ps4, USA West Coast ) is dominant performance of assasins in Dominion when it comes to takedowns. Hybrids are most likely second closest to assasins with Vanguards and Heavies trailing behind. Of course, my observation applies to everyone playing the game in my area since I don't know who is top 4% and who isn't.

I know it wouldn't be completely accurate but I always wanted to just start taking screen shots after every dominion for couple of weeks and then put the results in Excel and build a spreadsheet. It would give good idea who performs how on "peasant " level and data could be even more manipulated for extra things we want to find out.
Winning a game because you held objectives better means you've been stronger than the enemy team, plus using a lot of matches will annihilate the "lucky win" factor. They use data based on consoles and PCs to represent the community better, and I believe that the top 4% of players does not have that much issues in blocking and parrying on consoles anyway.

CandleInTheDark
08-10-2018, 12:15 PM
and I believe that the top 4% of players does not have that much issues in blocking and parrying on consoles anyway.

Pretty much this, I doubt there is much of a difference between a PC and an optimally setup console, especially since a PC player won the Defend the North PS4 tournament, if the difference were that huge on top of having to use a controller when he was used to mouse and keyboard you would have expected him to struggle.

Darkmight_cz
08-10-2018, 12:26 PM
Pretty much this, I doubt there is much of a difference between a PC and an optimally setup console, especially since a PC player won the Defend the North PS4 tournament, if the difference were that huge on top of having to use a controller when he was used to mouse and keyboard you would have expected him to struggle.

Exactly this

NHLGoldenKnight
08-11-2018, 02:13 AM
Winning a game because you held objectives better means you've been stronger than the enemy team, plus using a lot of matches will annihilate the "lucky win" factor. They use data based on consoles and PCs to represent the community better, and I believe that the top 4% of players does not have that much issues in blocking and parrying on consoles anyway.

Have to disagree.

1. You can win a match in 4v4 by being more organized or smarter than your opponent. Or simply by having a different objectives. Many tryhards go just for a kill in Dominion. But that doesn't make win % data accurate for hero balancing or for any other arguments about which hero is op or not. You can have Shaman who is constantly getting 20 takedowns per match with 4-5 deaths but still keeps losing at the end. If you look at the data that way, our imaginary Shaman should get buff, when actual situation is opposite.

2. You can't use data for consoles and PC to represent community better because number of players is significantly different. How many in 4% belong to consoles and how many to PC? How many overall number of players is for each of consoles and PC?

Statistics like this can be used to show whatever suits your interest unless it is done proper way.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 03:09 AM
Umm, that’s exactly what he said.

“Raider, Warlord, Shugoki, Lawbringer and Conqueror have all be ignored, and when they get attention its always a nerf. An assassin complains and nerf the big brute. ” Conq hasn’t been ignored, in fact he was one of the first to get reworked and it did the exact opposite off nerfing him, instead bumped his winrate to the highest in the game at 60%, so you could even argue he’s the best hero in the game. Doesn’t sound like ignoring or nerfing to me.


Yes, I know. I was saying that a more accurate summary (of what he said) would be.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 03:12 AM
I was on the forum when they did 1v1 tournaments at the launch streams, that is exactly what people were saying, loudly and often. I was also on reddit during the second of the big 1v1 tournaments, same there (though tech exploits got more noise and rightly so), so the vocal playerbase at least have very much been putting out that view.

Well that's a shame. The game is going to turn into 3rd person Soul Calibur at this rate.