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View Full Version : Do Light attacks still need to bounce off after being blocked?



Awlkara
08-05-2018, 11:13 PM
I think it was Charmzz who brought this up to me in another thread but I don't think that lights need to bounce off when blocked.

I see a strange paradox for aggression where if you are fighting someone good, they will block all of your lights which will halt your aggression but if you throw out a heavy then it's a free parry.

I've once been in matches where we almost timed out because we just could not do anything to each other and lights were damn near useless because we could both parry lights if we got too predictable since start up lights are not that fast.

Is anyone else not too fond of light attacks bouncing off? A lot of characters would be indirectly buffed from this and the game could be better from a non turtle stand point.

Characters like Aramusha, Peacekeeper and Orochi would not need openers and lights could see much more use. I believe at this current time, lights don't need to stagger you if they are blocked. The lack of viable block strings is one of the main reasons why turtling is so huge now because getting a light blocked just means resetting neutral.

Lights no longer resetting neutral and allowing further aggression would make lights more dangerous and certain characters wouldn't need to spam only one move all day to get something going against either a turtle or an opponent with great defense.

bannex19
08-05-2018, 11:20 PM
"Make lights more dangerous?"



...What?

Awlkara
08-05-2018, 11:22 PM
"Make lights more dangerous?"



...What?

Where did you have problems understanding what I was trying to say? Lights = light attacks.

DefiledDragon
08-06-2018, 12:59 AM
Where did you have problems understanding what I was trying to say? Lights = light attacks.

I believe he understands what you mean. I also believe he feels that being able to spam light attacks indefinitely, stamina permitting, leaving your opponent no recourse other than to block until you decide to stop might be a tad bit overkill. Perhaps they could change it so the first hit doesn't bounce off but subsequent hits in a chain do, if blocked, might offer up some options for a character like Orochi when it comes to opening somebody up, but just being able to spam light attacks without fear of retaliation doesn't seem like a solution to me, more like the beginnings of another problem.

Awlkara
08-06-2018, 01:19 AM
Having the second hit bounce off instead of the first is a nice addition.

I mean it's a discussion, well not really with replies like his.

I definitely like your idea of the second light bouncing off. As of right now it's impossible to get any sort of offense started.

There is also nothing saying that heroes like Orochi cannot be balanced for said changes to push the game in a non turtling direction.

Illyrian_King
08-06-2018, 01:21 AM
They definitely should keep bouncing!

What can in this case be worse then a Zerk, who can fully unleash his aggressions with no lights bouncing off :confused:

Awlkara
08-06-2018, 01:25 AM
They definitely should keep bouncing!

What can in this case be worse then a Zerk, who can fully unleash his aggressions with no lights bouncing off :confused:

I'd hate to repeat what has already been said.

There was talk about the second light in a chain of attacks bouncing off and that other heroes can be rebalanced.

Personally, I think that the second light bouncing off would be a good idea.

bannex19
08-06-2018, 05:06 AM
I know what you meant. Lights don't need a buff of any kind.

At least turtle meta took slightly more skill...

AzureSky.
08-06-2018, 09:31 PM
i agree, this game should take more things from tekken and make chains go over defense but without doing chip damage, BUT the moves will add negative frames after a blocked attack (obviously this is individual for every attack in the game and each one of the chain attacks) so you can decide to keep doing a attack or stop it, this is what makes "unsafe" moves in tekken safe, cause the opponent doesn't know when you are going to stop the chain (a important thing to add is that the longer the chain the longer the negative frame in that last attack, unless the move has a "unsafe" frame between attacks that experienced players can punish, most of the time if the opponent doesn't do anything in that move and just block they usually get positive frames for the next attack)

Knight_Raime
08-06-2018, 09:59 PM
I think if everyone had a reflex guard (to some variety decay rate wise) aside from shield heros and chain starters being blocked didn't reset the fight to neutral (but comboed lights would if blocked) it would be a good way to address how defense works mechanically. We'd then need to give everyone some kind of pressure/mix up afterwords so it would be harder to reset to neutral. And then finally making attacks vary ms wise and fixing the buffered attack issue/dodge into unlock roll issue would ensure offense would be doable.

Awlkara
08-07-2018, 01:34 AM
i agree, this game should take more things from tekken and make chains go over defense but without doing chip damage, BUT the moves will add negative frames after a blocked attack (obviously this is individual for every attack in the game and each one of the chain attacks) so you can decide to keep doing a attack or stop it, this is what makes "unsafe" moves in tekken safe, cause the opponent doesn't know when you are going to stop the chain (a important thing to add is that the longer the chain the longer the negative frame in that last attack, unless the move has a "unsafe" frame between attacks that experienced players can punish, most of the time if the opponent doesn't do anything in that move and just block they usually get positive frames for the next attack)
As an avid Tekken player I could not agree more.

As of right now this game is too based around standing around and either waiting for the other to make a play or regenerating stamina.

I think if everyone had a reflex guard (to some variety decay rate wise) aside from shield heros and chain starters being blocked didn't reset the fight to neutral (but comboed lights would if blocked) it would be a good way to address how defense works mechanically. We'd then need to give everyone some kind of pressure/mix up afterwords so it would be harder to reset to neutral. And then finally making attacks vary ms wise and fixing the buffered attack issue/dodge into unlock roll issue would ensure offense would be doable.

I am really in love with this idea.

Only shield heroes deserve a static guard as they have a shield up.

This game should be much more diverse in that aspect.

AzureSky.
08-07-2018, 01:43 AM
I don't think the type of guard is a problem, i really think just adding different frame advantages and negatives based on the move would do wonders to this game, also add Command grabs to Heavy characters (you can make it so you can break it like tekken 7 does)

For example if a opponent do a command with his right hand (you will see it with his left hand from your perspective) you need to hit the left mouse button (if you are on console or joystick you can map it) in other words light attack, if the hand it's the right one you need to do touch the heavy attack and if it's both hands you need to do a zone attack to counter guard break it.

This mechanic would make grab characters in For honor viable and could be part of old heavy hero's rework kit.

Awlkara
08-07-2018, 02:06 AM
I still think static guards are still a really big problem because it gives too many people a free pass defensively.

As for GBs being directional, we'd have to allow for enough time for the throw to be broken. As it stands that would be a a bit too much.

GBs are an odd kind of move where either they are overpowered or underpowered due to their nature.

AzureSky.
08-07-2018, 02:43 AM
I still think static guards are still a really big problem because it gives too many people a free pass defensively.

As for GBs being directional, we'd have to allow for enough time for the throw to be broken. As it stands that would be a a bit too much.

GBs are an odd kind of move where either they are overpowered or underpowered due to their nature.

No i mean command grabs, not normal grabs, grabs could still be like they already are. Im talking about special grabs that do damage or (in this game) big stamina damage or a mix.
They could be added to this game since currently the game doesn't have real "grabs" that do something on the spot or trow the opponent in a special way (also it could make heavies viable and not just CC supports)

One example so you can get what i mean would be Street fighter zangief grabs (the flashy ones) that ones are command grabs, in tekken the most iconic ones are the ones king have, king also have chained command grabs that are mixups (that would be too much for this devs to develop so im ok with a single command grab animation)

Awlkara
08-07-2018, 02:46 AM
I apologize.

That would add another level of mixup.

It could be that maybe light grabs are faster but only give you a light whereas heavy grabs are slower and give you a heavy?

Or perhaps that would be too obvious?