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View Full Version : Highlander's grab needs a range nerf



Invisih0le
08-05-2018, 09:16 PM
Highlanders rely on it and not all characters have convenient and fast enough light attacks to prevent it. It's a free pass 1 v 1 if you're not concentrated and this game is not meant for the top tier players only, so consider the casual part of us.

Make the highlander work for the grab, not just hover towards me with that hand forward as if he's a sith master performing a reverse force pull while I'm dodging backwards.

beerbariandh
08-05-2018, 09:19 PM
if anything needs to be nerfed on highlander its his phrase he says when the player spams whatever attack triggers it. drives me crazy

The_B0G_
08-05-2018, 09:26 PM
if anything needs to be nerfed on highlander its his phrase he says when the player spams whatever attack triggers it. drives me crazy

It's when he enters his offensive stance. It doesn't bother me but I can see where yoy're coming from, when theres two highlanders it can sound pretty dumb lol

Invisih0le
08-06-2018, 09:46 AM
I'd rather have an annoying phrase being spammed so I easily recognize his stance switch. The visual signal is minimal and easily visually blocked.

Darkmight_cz
08-06-2018, 10:08 AM
I'd rather have an annoying phrase being spammed so I easily recognize his stance switch. The visual signal is minimal and easily visually blocked.

I think his kick soft feint into grab should be removed. Tracking of grab is great and window for dodge is so tight when he soft feint kick into grab that its nearly impossible to dodge correctly - especially in team fights. And when enemy team has 2+ HL well its mostly gg. He should be able to perform kick or grab that's all

The_B0G_
08-06-2018, 01:06 PM
I think his kick soft feint into grab should be removed. Tracking of grab is great and window for dodge is so tight when he soft feint kick into grab that its nearly impossible to dodge correctly - especially in team fights. And when enemy team has 2+ HL well its mostly gg. He should be able to perform kick or grab that's all.

I rarely ever get caught in it, as long as you keep up pressure and don't give him space he can't use it.

beerbariandh
08-06-2018, 02:27 PM
I rarely ever get caught in it, as long as you keep up pressure and don't give him space he can't use it.

Last night apparently only 3 people were playing duel. One being myself and the other two both running HL. I found when one on one their grab doesn't work to well. Easy to see coming, and I either play Kensei, Glad, or Beserk so I can dodge out of the way easy. Thing that gets me is even on a deflect im taking massive damage. Like I didn't deflect at all. Kind of irritating.

The_B0G_
08-06-2018, 02:40 PM
Last night apparently only 3 people were playing duel. One being myself and the other two both running HL. I found when one on one their grab doesn't work to well. Easy to see coming, and I either play Kensei, Glad, or Beserk so I can dodge out of the way easy. Thing that gets me is even on a deflect im taking massive damage. Like I didn't deflect at all. Kind of irritating.

Why even deflect vs him though? His attack are all slow and he has HA on defensive heavies, parrying is easier than deflects for me at least, I won't assume it's easier for you but thats how I feel.

I have HL at rep 19, and he's pretty easy to shut down, his Celtic Curse is useless vs anyone who is even a decent defender, his attacks are all slow and easily parried, even my lights are parried often, if an enemy gets in close and uses fast attacks, he is useless. That's why I stopped playing him. I can do much better with even Warlord.

All character reworks getting fast light spam combos definitely doesn't help his case, I think after the next set of reworks, LB, Warlord and Shugo, you will hardly see any HLs, the only reason he's even decent is his kick/grab mixup and everyone is getting faster and faster attacks on reworks that negate it completely.

Darkmight_cz
08-06-2018, 04:26 PM
I rarely ever get caught in it, as long as you keep up pressure and don't give him space he can't use it.

Softfeint from one cc to another is absurd. Also what you wrote is true but only for fast att chars or chars with side dodge att but with slow heavy chars you are mostly screwed. Your only chance is that tight dodge window. In 1v1 its OK but in 4v4 its mess.

The_B0G_
08-06-2018, 05:22 PM
Softfeint from one cc to another is absurd. Also what you wrote is true but only for fast att chars or chars with side dodge att but with slow heavy chars you are mostly screwed. Your only chance is that tight dodge window. In 1v1 its OK but in 4v4 its mess.

Certain characters for sure are at a disadvantage compared to others when it comes to HL but not many, what characters are you referring to?

Knight_Raime
08-06-2018, 08:19 PM
Highlanders offensive capability isn't the problem. it's the damage he gets on someone from a single misread. Ballors might damage needs to scale depending on how he gets it. That way the easier performing things nets him less damage. But the harder ones (like doing a light parry or landing a raw one) give the most damage.

The_B0G_
08-06-2018, 08:56 PM
Highlanders offensive capability isn't the problem. it's the damage he gets on someone from a single misread. Ballors might damage needs to scale depending on how he gets it. That way the easier performing things nets him less damage. But the harder ones (like doing a light parry or landing a raw one) give the most damage.

I can agree with this, I think most people's main issue is being kicked even before they know he's there, like in ganks, I think reducing damage on Balors Might after a kick or throw would help for sure.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2018, 08:58 PM
I can agree with this, I think most people's main issue is being kicked even before they know he's there, like in ganks, I think reducing damage on Balors Might after a kick or throw would help for sure.

Issue though is that i'm not sure if the devs know how to do that from a coding perspective. afaik there isn't any ingame example like this. except that being OOS makes you take a bit more damage. and that comboed moves sometimes do more.

Darkmight_cz
08-06-2018, 09:03 PM
Certain characters for sure are at a disadvantage compared to others when it comes to HL but not many, what characters are you referring to?

I just like to play slow heavy chars like Raider, Lb etc and there I have problem coz even their lights are slow. As LB top light sometimes save my day or shove. But as raider I just have to dodge perfectly and I mind you Iam talking about 4v4. In 1v1 it's different story but I think all heavy chars struggle vs kick to grab combo. Don't get me wrong if I play assassin I can dodge it all day with ease, also chars with side dodge att makes it even easier. So that's why I think cc soft feint into another cc is absurd. Also because guaranteed heavy dmg after you miss that dodge window. So I think this moves should be separated or as Knight_Raime said lower his guaranteed UB heavy dmg after kick or grab.

The_B0G_
08-06-2018, 09:19 PM
I just like to play slow heavy chars like Raider, Lb etc and there I have problem coz even their lights are slow. As LB top light sometimes save my day or shove. But as raider I just have to dodge perfectly and I mind you Iam talking about 4v4. In 1v1 it's different story but I think all heavy chars struggle vs kick to grab combo. Don't get me wrong if I play assassin I can dodge it all day with ease, also chars with side dodge att makes it even easier. So that's why I think cc soft feint into another cc is absurd. Also because guaranteed heavy dmg after you miss that dodge window. So I think this moves should be separated or as Knight_Raime said lower his guaranteed UB heavy dmg after kick or grab.

I also like the heavy classes, LB top light will stop HL dead in his tracks though, I don't even have Raider at rep 1 so I don't know much about him. I'm assuming his dodge into stunning tap is too slow to break up the combo.

The_B0G_
08-06-2018, 09:23 PM
Issue though is that i'm not sure if the devs know how to do that from a coding perspective. afaik there isn't any ingame example like this. except that being OOS makes you take a bit more damage. and that comboed moves sometimes do more.

Maybe if its considered a combo like lights and heavies then it could be done. Not sure if an unblockable and an attack can be technically considered a combo together though.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2018, 10:00 PM
Maybe if its considered a combo like lights and heavies then it could be done. Not sure if an unblockable and an attack can be technically considered a combo together though.

I'm unsure as well. it's something I aim to ask at some point. First though i'm trying to get the devs attention about the buffered attack issue and the dodge into unlock roll issue and get them talking about varied ms increments.

The_B0G_
08-06-2018, 10:24 PM
I'm unsure as well. it's something I aim to ask at some point. First though i'm trying to get the devs attention about the buffered attack issue and the dodge into unlock roll issue and get them talking about varied ms increments.

I don't know what either of those even are lol