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SenBotsu893
08-02-2018, 07:38 PM
"Warden has always been good"

so he was not in need of a buff but got one regardless?


but what confuses me the most are the numbers.

Heavy finishers got damage increase AND stamina usage decrease.
you would think that a more powerfull blow would also require more stamina to pull off. especially when they get unblockable properties.

either decrease the damage payoff or increase the stamina usage by a lot.


next is crushing counter. this was always an excessive high damage payoff ... and it still is. 55 guaranteed damage for 1 single crushing counter is just insane.
30 damage similar to Highlanders crushing counterstrike is sufficient and the guaranteed light attack should also be gone.


New forward Dodge is fine but needs some numbers and attributes changed as well.
500 MS heavy granting 20 Damage is too much.

remember that Kensei got his 500 MS forward dodge Helm Splitter attack changed to a light attack and damage was reduced from 20 to 17.

Wardens forward dodge attack should thus be treated as a light attack and the damage reduced to 17 as well.


side lights reduced to 500 MS from 600 MS damage went down from 24 to 18. okey nice they actually reduced the damage but if you compare it to the most recent reworks he gets the special treatment as well. most characters that have gotten the 500 MS treatment got the damage reduced to around 15 or even lower.
so the 500 MS double lights should not do more than 15 damage as well.


Remember guys. Warden was no where near as in need for a rework as some of the latest reworked heroes. but he got the better buff out off this update than those aforementined heroes. so all im asking is to align his numbers in accordance.

DefiledDragon
08-02-2018, 07:55 PM
On paper doesn't always play out in reality. On paper, Orochi looks awesome with his 400ms lights but in reality he couldn't open a jar of pickles so those 400ms lights might as well be 1200ms. Let's see how it plays out in game before we start begging for the nerf hammer.

Vakris_One
08-02-2018, 08:03 PM
Actually his update is pretty mediocre but then again Warden didn't need a lot of work done to him. It's too soon for any kind of nerf or buff threads. Let's just see what happens in the live game in the coming week.

btw: Kensei's helm splitter was always a light attack.

SenBotsu893
08-02-2018, 08:07 PM
Actually his update is pretty mediocre but then again Warden didn't need a lot of work done to him. It's too soon for any kind of nerf or buff threads. Let's just see what happens in the live game in the coming week.

btw: Kensei's helm splitter was always a light attack.

yes true it was a light attack but caused heavy reaction on block now its a true light with reduced damage.

Huldrych-ZX
08-02-2018, 08:20 PM
As a warden main, this doesn't feel like a buff, instead feels like a rework (which it is how it was labeld as)
We lost our main source of deception, which was the Should Bash into Guard Break for an almost guaranteed side heavy, which was annoying and broken. The only reliable way I found to counter it was rolling.
The added unblockable doesn't add much in terms of combos in reality, as it is pretty slow and telegraphed.
Same applies to most of his changes, for a Heavy Attack is still a slow attack, meaning that you'll be parrying them non stop unless you're a scrub.
His new moveset forces you to learn all his possible true combos and soft combos, rather than relying on a broken move.

Maxime_Qc-
08-02-2018, 08:31 PM
I like it better that way !...

More skill will be involved in warden gameplay...

I just start playing it and i keep baiting people to parry my unblockable into crushing counter ... funny as **** xD

Good mix-up has been add to... this vortex to guard break doesn't belong in the game anymore since parry no longuer give guardbreak anymore... the playstyle of the game completely change for the better !

NinjaRonin85
08-02-2018, 08:41 PM
They took the one good move he had and replaced it with garbage, I'm shocked at how bad these reworks are, how does this put him on level with shaman wasn't that the point of these reworks to bring every class as close to her as possible yet the took away his only soft faint. Wow wow wow ubisoft how can you be so bad at this after all this time. Well off to play no man's sky now there's a game that started out crap yet has turned it around ubisoft is doing the reverse of that it seems.

Wes8504
08-02-2018, 08:41 PM
The added unblockable doesn't add much in terms of combos in reality, as it is pretty slow and telegraphed.
Same applies to most of his changes, for a Heavy Attack is still a slow attack, meaning that you'll be parrying them non stop unless you're a scrub.
His new moveset forces you to learn all his possible true combos and soft combos, rather than relying on a broken move.

The biggest threat of adding the unblockable to his 2nd heavy overhead is after an OOS throw, Warden follows up with a Heavy > Heavy > Feint. Majority of people now are just keeping their guard up and blocking it. Now you have to decide if you want to eat that 2nd heavy, parry it, or dodge it. If you go for the parry or the dodge, you are most likely hitting the ground again. If you don't react to it and they let it fly, you eat that finisher.

C4rmine52
08-02-2018, 08:53 PM
Canít stand u QQers who come to the forums 2 min after a change to a hero or new heroís added and call for nerfs lol. Rework just came out bro calm down. And it isnít a buff so you can stop sayin that thank you

Helnekromancer
08-02-2018, 08:56 PM
They removed his Vortex and let him cancel his Shoulder Bash both short and long charge and cancel it into his zone that could lead into his unblockable that's a really good mix-up and for 4v4 it will catch alot of people, just bump up the Stamina cost reduction and your set.
The also let his running heavy attack and his zone lead into a second heavy or his unblockable heavy.

They gave him options and fluidity other than soley relying on his Vortex and zone to cheese people.

ChampionRuby50g
08-02-2018, 09:30 PM
You could argue the same for Beserker, or even orochi that they have always been good and not in need.

I reckon your just complaining about Warden because heís the most played knight, and not basing any of this on experience...

Yoshimitsu_440
08-02-2018, 09:58 PM
Did u just really say that orochi was good before rework...sigh...when we all cried for UBs and orochis with pk got none. now they are left behind once again with no way to open turtles BUT then Ubi goes and gives another UB to warden..fml

ChampionRuby50g
08-02-2018, 10:33 PM
I said you could argue he was or not. Many believed he wasnít bad, but not great and thatís fine. Never once did I state my opinion on it, people and their assumptions these days...

Sneakly20
08-02-2018, 11:09 PM
Itís too early to call out buffs and nerfs I agree. But I donít think I understand a heavy attack being 500 ms. Lights I can agree with all day but reacting to a move like that 1. Can combo 2. Only get a light out of it. Maybe it wonít prove to be that bad.

Not saying itís strong yet but I personally donít understand the decision behind it.

The_B0G_
08-03-2018, 12:43 AM
I've been messing around with him in arena and his mixup game has been buffed big time, no more soft feint, but he has combos stemming from both his zone and his crushing counter, after a crushing counter you can get a guarenteed top light or move right into an unblockable.

His shoulder bash can be cancelled at any time now. I think so far he's good, I can't check against real players yet because my internet is too laggy atm but I'll be on later testing him for sure.

Justicator
08-03-2018, 01:40 AM
As a warden main, I played dominion today and absolutely rekted everything. I was afraid of this rework, but I am now pleasantly surprised. He feels different, capable of being way more aggressive than before (just the way I like it) even without his soft feint. His ability to cancel shoulder-bash whenever is so good, and the tracking on it (even when not fully charged) and the new charge heavy attack, damn... absolutely beautiful :D

Knight_Raime
08-03-2018, 03:08 AM
-sigh-

"Warden has always been good

so he was not in need of a buff but got one regardless?"

Don't take their words too literally please. You'll hurt yourself.

"Heavy finishers got damage increase AND stamina usage decrease.
you would think that a more powerfull blow would also require more stamina to pull off. especially when they get unblockable properties.

either decrease the damage payoff or increase the stamina usage by a lot."

Only the side heavy finisher and it was only bumped by 5. the top heavy finisher became 400ms slower. Asking both to take a bunch of stamina doesn't make since when they're already slow and he doesn't have any soft feint for either. They're meant to be one of his main mix up tools. Increasing the stamina would ruin that.

"next is crushing counter. this was always an excessive high damage payoff ... and it still is. 55 guaranteed damage for 1 single crushing counter is just insane.
30 damage similar to Highlanders crushing counterstrike is sufficient and the guaranteed light attack should also be gone."

Highlanders CC leads him into his offensive form where his big **** damage is. Not comparable to wardens. Wardens CC is less safe because it's coming from the top and he can't option select with it like highlander can. Crushing counter rarely lands in even high mid tier. It's fine. The removal of guaranteed SB makes sense because of how strong SB now is. The damage from CC plus SB follow up was never an actual issue.

"New forward Dodge is fine but needs some numbers and attributes changed as well.
500 MS heavy granting 20 Damage is too much.

remember that Kensei got his 500 MS forward dodge Helm Splitter attack changed to a light attack and damage was reduced from 20 to 17.

Wardens forward dodge attack should thus be treated as a light attack and the damage reduced to 17 as well."

It's really not. It's executable only 300ms into the dodge. For frame of reference centurion's kick is only available 300ms into his dodge and is 100ms slower. The move is super obvious if the person constantly relies on it. Kensei's helm splitter was always a light it just had a special property. It was rightly nerfed because of how new kensei plays with his top heavy. Considering kensei can go straight into his top heavy mix up with decent tracking options from neutral it's different than warden who has to get to his heavy finishers first. New dash heavy is a chase down. Helm splitter never was. It purely existed as one way to get into mix ups. different situations.

"side lights reduced to 500 MS from 600 MS damage went down from 24 to 18. okey nice they actually reduced the damage but if you compare it to the most recent reworks he gets the special treatment as well. most characters that have gotten the 500 MS treatment got the damage reduced to around 15 or even lower.
so the 500 MS double lights should not do more than 15 damage as well."

Immediate thought was zerks opening light. Which makes sense because it got a redic speed buff of 400ms and it has armor. Not comparable to Warden's side lights. Orochi's if they also got reduced in damage makes sense because they're unreactable 400ms lights in combo. Far more powerful than warden's side lights. If you reduced his double side lights to 15 then it would be as strong as his top light. Would make no sense to ever attempt the double hit when that leaves you open to an extra GB window in ganks.

You seem to have a very bad case of copy paste and I can't help but feel your bias towards anything non Samurai related is once again showing. It really shows you lack a proper grasp of other heros. How about you actually play with the new Warden for awhile before you start throwing out blind and frankly ignorant statements.

Citrinitas
08-03-2018, 05:05 AM
I think you're all forgetting that he can still spam his complete charged shoulder bash, which is impossible to dodge out of unless you roll, at a heavy cost of stam, and he can still cancel shoulder bash into GB, it's just not baked into his kit anymore, so what's changed about his mixups again? lol, nothing

MarshalMoriarty
08-03-2018, 06:08 AM
I just wish they'd let Warden solve the mystery of what the pointy bit on the end of his sword is for. He's got some nerve calling himself a master of the longsword when he doesn't have any Thrust attacks.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-03-2018, 08:23 AM
I just wish they'd let Warden solve the mystery of what the pointy bit on the end of his sword is for. He's got some nerve calling himself a master of the longsword when he doesn't have any Thrust attacks.

This!
I was really hoping that Warden will get some kind of thrust attack, maybe weak dodge attack similar to Nobushi. And I got disappointed once again.

It is really funny how Ubisoft probably has on its payroll some kind of historians or medieval martial arts experts yet they completely faild to utilize longsword in this game since thrusting was even more important than cutting for real masters of longsword. To be even worse, Kensei and Orrochi have thrusting as a part of their combat even though their weapons are primarily created for cutting. It really shows how they don't care about Vanguard and Heavy class that much at all.

Dragtyr
08-03-2018, 11:43 AM
I think you're all forgetting that he can still spam his complete charged shoulder bash, which is impossible to dodge out of unless you roll, at a heavy cost of stam, and he can still cancel shoulder bash into GB, it's just not baked into his kit anymore, so what's changed about his mixups again? lol, nothing

No it's not impossible to dodge. For no class at all. A side dodge easily avoids the SB with every single class. He can ofc charge it longer to track your side dodge. But that's up to you and his timing.
And there are still classes who have dodge attacks which not only avoid the SB but even the GB if you faint into it. His mechanic is completely countered buy quite a few classes. Just because you might have trouble with whatever class you play doesn't mean it's too strong or anything.

SenBotsu893
08-03-2018, 02:51 PM
Canít stand u QQers who come to the forums 2 min after a change to a hero or new heroís added and call for nerfs lol. Rework just came out bro calm down. And it isnít a buff so you can stop sayin that thank you

some of those QQers were already able to play those changes in the TTS.

and it is a pure buff. because he didnt loose anything in exchange.

SenBotsu893
08-03-2018, 03:50 PM
Highlanders CC leads him into his offensive form where his big **** damage is. Not comparable to wardens. Wardens CC is less safe because it's coming from the top and he can't option select with it like highlander can. Crushing counter rarely lands in even high mid tier. It's fine. The removal of guaranteed SB makes sense because of how strong SB now is. The damage from CC plus SB follow up was never an actual issue.


you seem to be missing the point on purpose. warden has already higher damage from crushing counter to beginn with AND a guaranteed follow up. and you cant be serious that the 55 damage for a single cc isnt way too much.





It's really not. It's executable only 300ms into the dodge. For frame of reference centurion's kick is only available 300ms into his dodge and is 100ms slower. The move is super obvious if the person constantly relies on it. Kensei's helm splitter was always a light it just had a special property. It was rightly nerfed because of how new kensei plays with his top heavy. Considering kensei can go straight into his top heavy mix up with decent tracking options from neutral it's different than warden who has to get to his heavy finishers first. New dash heavy is a chase down. Helm splitter never was. It purely existed as one way to get into mix ups. different situations.


so it wouldnt be a problem if valiant breakthrough was a light attack dealing 17 damage instead of 15. i was comparing the two identical moves because and suggested to make them even.
if you want to argue kensei has his top heavy mixup from neutral okey. warden has easier acces towards bashes. we could go on like that but i just wanted to adress this specific movement wich was reduced on an underdog hero while the other one got it as an extra cherry on top.



-sigh-

Immediate thought was zerks opening light. Which makes sense because it got a redic speed buff of 400ms and it has armor. Not comparable to Warden's side lights. Orochi's if they also got reduced in damage makes sense because they're unreactable 400ms lights in combo. Far more powerful than warden's side lights. If you reduced his double side lights to 15 then it would be as strong as his top light. Would make no sense to ever attempt the double hit when that leaves you open to an extra GB window in ganks.



you either mixed up some numbers here or you did this on purpose to because it suited your argument.

berserker STARTING side lights are 500MS 15 damage.
orochi STARTING side lights have been speed up to 500 MS and changed to 15 damage.
pk STARTING side lights 500MS reduced to 13 damage.

now comes Warden STARTING side light gives guaranteed 18 damage. i merely wanted to align it with the latest changes and reduce it by a whooooooping 3 damage. shame on me right?

if you havent noticed i was and still are refering to STARTING lights and not to any chained or feinted attacks.
to make it more blunt i was talking about apples and you said lemons are stronger.




How about you actually play with the new Warden for awhile before you start throwing out blind and frankly ignorant statements.

remeber that some of us actually had a good amount of time to play with these changed heroes in the TTS. so think again maybe just maaaaybe this ignorant statemant has some basis?

besides i didnt ask for any groundbreaking changes i merely wanted to keep him an an even playing field with the other heroes.

you on the other hand immedately accuse me of making irrational damands because of your personal opinion of me.

so i ask you to take a moment and take a good loock at yourself, try to distance yourself of personal bias as much as possible and see if tweaking a few damage numbers by a small margin is really this bad.

BTTrinity
08-03-2018, 04:24 PM
I think Warden was one of the most in need of a rework simply because how limited his kit is.... This rework makes him so much more fun....

Also he wasnt just buffed, he was nerfed too... He lost his soft cancel, AND "Vortex" in favor of more useful charged variants of shoulder bash.

I think the unblockable is fine the way it is considering its a finisher. If he could just initiate a top heavy unblockable from neutral then numbers might need adjusting but otherwise no.

And considering he can only crushing counter from top, no I dont think that 55 damage is too much. I think its too much that you'd rather complain on the forums that he needs a nerf, rather then just not letting top attacks fly.

If his crushing counter be used from ALL sides, then 55 damage is to much.

lNogardl
08-03-2018, 05:29 PM
I'm liking it so far as a Warden main, the only thing i have a problem is fighting against Conquerors, it's an absolute nightmare because they have a save dodge meaning i can't punish them if they dodge from my attacks, which is so bs. Just fought against a playr that really frustrated me and i couldn't beat him for the life of me, he knew the timing of my bash so well that he would dodge everything even if i mixed it up, and even if i caught him in the dash he can just shoulder bash and voila, hes too ****ing safe and i felt at a disadvantage if i threw anything from neutral, he made me scared of using Warden against anyone else.. i guess i'll just take it easy.

The_B0G_
08-03-2018, 05:47 PM
I'm liking it so far as a Warden main, the only thing i have a problem is fighting against Conquerors, it's an absolute nightmare because they have a save dodge meaning i can't punish them if they dodge from my attacks, which is so bs. Just fought against a playr that really frustrated me and i couldn't beat him for the life of me, he knew the timing of my bash so well that he would dodge everything even if i mixed it up, and even if i caught him in the dash he can just shoulder bash and voila, hes too ****ing safe and i felt at a disadvantage if i threw anything from neutral, he made me scared of using Warden against anyone else.. i guess i'll just take it easy.

They definitely missed the mark on the Conq and Orochi rework, I like Kensei's, and wardens the most so far. Conq just feels unpunishable short of a parry, he can miss bash after bash and keep his momentum. Dodging a shield bash should get you more than a 400 ms light in the head.

Knight_Raime
08-03-2018, 06:28 PM
you seem to be missing the point on purpose. warden has already higher damage from crushing counter to beginn with AND a guaranteed follow up. and you cant be serious that the 55 damage for a single cc isnt way too much.




so it wouldnt be a problem if valiant breakthrough was a light attack dealing 17 damage instead of 15. i was comparing the two identical moves because and suggested to make them even.
if you want to argue kensei has his top heavy mixup from neutral okey. warden has easier acces towards bashes. we could go on like that but i just wanted to adress this specific movement wich was reduced on an underdog hero while the other one got it as an extra cherry on top.




you either mixed up some numbers here or you did this on purpose to because it suited your argument.

berserker STARTING side lights are 500MS 15 damage.
orochi STARTING side lights have been speed up to 500 MS and changed to 15 damage.
pk STARTING side lights 500MS reduced to 13 damage.

now comes Warden STARTING side light gives guaranteed 18 damage. i merely wanted to align it with the latest changes and reduce it by a whooooooping 3 damage. shame on me right?

if you havent noticed i was and still are refering to STARTING lights and not to any chained or feinted attacks.
to make it more blunt i was talking about apples and you said lemons are stronger.




remeber that some of us actually had a good amount of time to play with these changed heroes in the TTS. so think again maybe just maaaaybe this ignorant statemant has some basis?

besides i didnt ask for any groundbreaking changes i merely wanted to keep him an an even playing field with the other heroes.

you on the other hand immedately accuse me of making irrational damands because of your personal opinion of me.

so i ask you to take a moment and take a good loock at yourself, try to distance yourself of personal bias as much as possible and see if tweaking a few damage numbers by a small margin is really this bad.

~I just explained why I think it's fine. It used to do 60+ with the old double light damage due to guaranteed SB.

~They're not comparable. I already explained why.

~Yes shame on you. 15 damage would make it the exact same as his top light. Which ruins the whole point of have 2 attacks guaranteed.

I don't care how much time you may or may not have put into the tts. it still doesn't change that anytime you're posting on here you're always complaining about how bad samurai got it and CONSTANTLY drawing lines (usually nerfs) to other heros that are not samurai and wanting them nerfed because samurai got nerfed. It's hard to ignore when that's literally what you do.

It really is. And if these changes were anything close to what he'd be needing it would be being currently discussed on the competitive scene and it's not.

Vakris_One
08-03-2018, 06:56 PM
I'm liking it so far as a Warden main, the only thing i have a problem is fighting against Conquerors, it's an absolute nightmare because they have a save dodge meaning i can't punish them if they dodge from my attacks, which is so bs. Just fought against a playr that really frustrated me and i couldn't beat him for the life of me, he knew the timing of my bash so well that he would dodge everything even if i mixed it up, and even if i caught him in the dash he can just shoulder bash and voila, hes too ****ing safe and i felt at a disadvantage if i threw anything from neutral, he made me scared of using Warden against anyone else.. i guess i'll just take it easy.
That's just Conqueror. Mr. Unpunishable, 60% duel win rate, completely balanced non-existent shield bash recovery while the entire roster eats a nerf to dodge recovery.

GG Ubisoft.

SenBotsu893
08-03-2018, 07:25 PM
~I just explained why I think it's fine. It used to do 60+ with the old double light damage due to guaranteed SB.

~They're not comparable. I already explained why.

~Yes shame on you. 15 damage would make it the exact same as his top light. Which ruins the whole point of have 2 attacks guaranteed.

I don't care how much time you may or may not have put into the tts. it still doesn't change that anytime you're posting on here you're always complaining about how bad samurai got it and CONSTANTLY drawing lines (usually nerfs) to other heros that are not samurai and wanting them nerfed because samurai got nerfed. It's hard to ignore when that's literally what you do.

It really is. And if these changes were anything close to what he'd be needing it would be being currently discussed on the competitive scene and it's not.

- and now its 55+. tis too high and you are aware of it but refuse to admit it.

- they are comparable. i already explained why but you put blinders on your eyes.

-15 damage would is for any 500 MS light attack. it would not ruin the point of side light attacks they would still be 500 MS attacks.

as if you didnt post any whiny threads when your mains gets threatened. just as is happening now. you are what people call a hypocrit.


well i gues i shouldnt expect anything else from this forum. here i am making a sound argument only using the simplest of math for people to understand and they immedatly plug their ears.

Knight_Raime
08-03-2018, 07:35 PM
- and now its 55. tis too high and you are aware of it but refuse to admit it.

- they are comparable. i already explained why but you put blinders on your eyes.

-15 damage would is for any 500 MS light attack. it would not ruin the point of side light attacks they would still be 500 MS attacks.

as if you didnt post any whiny threads when your mains gets threatened. just as is happening now. you are what people call a hypocrit.


well i gues i shouldnt expect anything else from this forum. here i am making a sound argument only using the simplest of math for people to understand and they immedatly plug their ears.

You don't make any valid arguments because you 100% believe that because a change happened to someone else it is 100% okay to do the same to any other hero. That's not how it works. Fighters have different styles of play for a reason. The fact that you fail to grasp this is your problem that you don't acknowledge. I had one main. Centurion. And in every single thread i've ever made about him i've acknowledged his need for change. Buffs AND nerfs. I treat all heros/factions equally. Your post history says otherwise. So comparing me to you is a joke.

Lil_Porkki
08-03-2018, 09:22 PM
Tbh I really like the new warden, the top heavy finisher is good in a group fight to get the damage in. Im glad that the SB soft fein to GB was taken away and he was given more tools, like the dodge attack to get those backdodging orochis. All in all I only had couple of hours to try her but im sure she will be in better spot now, lets see how she plays in the long run!

NinjaRonin85
08-03-2018, 10:05 PM
Wardens new top heavy unblockable finisher. https://youtu.be/EymKZBG0-bc

SenBotsu893
08-03-2018, 10:30 PM
You don't make any valid arguments because you 100% believe that because a change happened to someone else it is 100% okay to do the same to any other hero. That's not how it works.

normalising dodges across all fighters. ring any bells? wow you really shot yourself in the leg with that argument now.


YFighters have different styles of play for a reason. The fact that you fail to grasp this is your problem that you don't acknowledge. I had one main. Centurion. And in every single thread i've ever made about him i've acknowledged his need for change. Buffs AND nerfs. I treat all heros/factions equally. Your post history says otherwise. So comparing me to you is a joke.

and fighting games should have something called a balanced roster. what happened now is taking a hero that was already in a good middle point and buffing him further. even further than those heroes that have been on the low end.

let me ask you this: is 18 a higher number than 15? yes it is. its simple as that. you are just grasping at straws now.


oh and you "had" cent as main? let me gues: fresh released cent was your main and when he got brought down to earth you no longer mained him. am i right?

you either click with a specific hero and actually main him regardless of state or you dont. so basically you just mained him because he was the apex hero at the time and then ditched him for the next top tiers.

"i treat all heroes"" equally" apparently wou want to treat warden a little better than other heroes. so in other words NOT equally.

yeah i really dont want to be compared to someone like you. its actually kinda revolting to hear you say so many contradictions.

ChampionRuby50g
08-03-2018, 10:51 PM
Raime is right in everything. Why should two sword strokes deal the same damage as one sword stroke? It just doesnít make sense. Heís also right that you always complain about the Samurai not been strong enough, then say nerf every other hero but samurai. You are the hypocrite here. Not anyone else. You seem to be suggesting that a balanced roster means all damage values are the same, attack speeds are the same and that would make for an incredibly boring game and just kill off heaps of players. Ever heard of something called variety? No fighting game is truly balanced. Yes, Warden was at the average spot before rework, but now theyíve brought her up to the standard of Shaman and other strong heroes, which was the whole point of reworking the cast. Youíre just sooking that itís harder to spam lights as your orochi now.

dinosaurlicker
08-03-2018, 10:59 PM
You guys are stupid lol. They didnít remove his vortex. You can still cancel the sb and then guardbreak, that still works and isnít reactable. They basically just gave it less range

Knight_Raime
08-03-2018, 11:21 PM
normalising dodges across all fighters. ring any bells? wow you really shot yourself in the leg with that argument now.



and fighting games should have something called a balanced roster. what happened now is taking a hero that was already in a good middle point and buffing him further. even further than those heroes that have been on the low end.

let me ask you this: is 18 a higher number than 15? yes it is. its simple as that. you are just grasping at straws now.


oh and you "had" cent as main? let me gues: fresh released cent was your main and when he got brought down to earth you no longer mained him. am i right?

you either click with a specific hero and actually main him regardless of state or you dont. so basically you just mained him because he was the apex hero at the time and then ditched him for the next top tiers.

"i treat all heroes"" equally" apparently wou want to treat warden a little better than other heroes. so in other words NOT equally.

yeah i really dont want to be compared to someone like you. its actually kinda revolting to hear you say so many contradictions.

Do you only see the world in black and white? Yes some things can and should be normalized. Things like dodge recovery. NOT everyone's damage and speed. I didn't shoot myself in the foot. You're just hearing what you want to hear.
There is no such thing as perfect balance. Warden was not in a good middle point. he was bottom tier along with aramusha and goki. Just because there are worse off heros doesn't mean we should ignore any other hero that needs help.

LOL you're dictating when and what dictates a main? wow. And you accuse me of grasping. You do realize even competitive players switch around their fighters on a routinely basis when patches drop right? If I seriously bounced around based only about who's the best then berzerker would have been my next pick after Centurion. He wasn't. Neither was conq. And the fact that you think new warden is anywhere close to those heros at the moment is hilarious.

SenBotsu893
08-04-2018, 11:09 AM
Do you only see the world in black and white? Yes some things can and should be normalized. Things like dodge recovery. NOT everyone's damage and speed. I didn't shoot myself in the foot. You're just hearing what you want to hear.
There is no such thing as perfect balance. Warden was not in a good middle point. he was bottom tier along with aramusha and goki. Just because there are worse off heros doesn't mean we should ignore any other hero that needs help.

LOL you're dictating when and what dictates a main? wow. And you accuse me of grasping. You do realize even competitive players switch around their fighters on a routinely basis when patches drop right? If I seriously bounced around based only about who's the best then berzerker would have been my next pick after Centurion. He wasn't. Neither was conq. And the fact that you think new warden is anywhere close to those heros at the moment is hilarious.


why would normalising damage based on attack speed be such a bad thing when normalising dodges isnt?

for example if all 400MS attacks would all deal 10 damage, 500MS attacks 15 damage. 600MS 20 damage and so on. then we would have a much more even balance.

we could also normalise HP pools too. since everyone has the same dodge recovery regardless of how heavy theire armor is we could as well get everyone to the same HP pool.
wich is very commonl in fighting games.


i know you will blow this suggestion away without giving it some thought because of your personal vendetta.

oh yeah and competitive players switch around their fighters based on viabilty. they dont truly main a single character.

and never ever did i say warden was zomg SSSSSS-Tier. i said that a middlefield player got more out of his rework than some of the previous reworked low tier fighters. wich is backed up by actual numbers if you manage to look past your personal bias.

SenBotsu893
08-04-2018, 11:23 AM
Raime is right in everything. Why should two sword strokes deal the same damage as one sword stroke? It just doesn’t make sense. He’s also right that you always complain about the Samurai not been strong enough, then say nerf every other hero but samurai. You are the hypocrite here. Not anyone else. You seem to be suggesting that a balanced roster means all damage values are the same, attack speeds are the same and that would make for an incredibly boring game and just kill off heaps of players. Ever heard of something called variety? No fighting game is truly balanced. Yes, Warden was at the average spot before rework, but now they’ve brought her up to the standard of Shaman and other strong heroes, which was the whole point of reworking the cast. You’re just sooking that it’s harder to spam lights as your orochi now.

never really got much into orochi. because he was the most played hero anyway so there is little insentive for me to follow the main stream. wrong assumption on your end here. i tried him after the rework much but he was basically the same as before. better yes. but basically the same.

normalising the values is whats going on though. the parry changes did enforce this, the dodge recovery did normalising heroes regardless if they are agile assasins or heavy tanks.

even if attack and hp values would be normalised you would still have different looking heroes with different animations and differnt ammount and variaty of moves. so not as dull as you might think.

and thank you for admitting that warden was the average and not that low rank anyone would like it to be. im not sure if he really is now up to the standard of shaman or conq though.. there might still be a gap. and that gap is even bigger with some of the heroes that got reworked before him. that was my whole point.

Teldinion_Darv
08-04-2018, 10:29 PM
"require more skill" MY *** this doesnt make for more skillful play of him. I'm a pretty low tier fighter myself so the players in my range should be too but guess what ever since the rework wardens have been dominating, NOT because of skill but because the rework is upsetting the natural balance of the different heroes dynamic relationships...

PLEASE UNDO THE REWORK

DefiledDragon
08-05-2018, 01:21 AM
"require more skill" MY *** this doesnt make for more skillful play of him. I'm a pretty low tier fighter myself so the players in my range should be too but guess what ever since the rework wardens have been dominating, NOT because of skill but because the rework is upsetting the natural balance of the different heroes dynamic relationships...

PLEASE UNDO THE REWORK

I don't think it's that at all. I think people are just used to how he used to fight and haven't got used to his rework yet. How many people come on here and complain that a character is super OP because they fought one for the first time and got battered? Happens all the time. Once you learn how a character fights they become beatable. If you don't know what your enemy can do how can you ever hope to counter it? I say give it some time before we all start hanging ourselves over his rework.