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Maxime_Qc-
08-02-2018, 06:01 AM
And i know ubi know about it but do they have any intention of fixing it ?


I'm talking about unlock tech + zone making it unparryable and guarantee 102 damage ONE SHOT!!...

KINDA OP NO ?

Sneakly20
08-02-2018, 06:32 AM
And i know ubi know about it but do they have any intention of fixing it ?


I'm talking about unlock tech + zone making it unparryable and guarantee 102 damage ONE SHOT!!...

KINDA OP NO ?

The 102 sounds a little over the top. Like the raider had a buff and you had a debuff at the same time.

But getting back to the tech. Itís ridiculous and Iím seeing a form of it where they arenít aiming at anyone in particular so they itís a random swing but anyone in that arc takes a good chunk of damage. ( pretty sure lock on zone switch lock quickly ..who knows). Itís not the only move that can do this, in fact every move in the game can do this.

The raider just makes fun of United States of- I mean Valhalla Smashing that fine line due to how abusable the regular zone and how easy access to the enhanced zone is in 4s.

Knight_Raime
08-02-2018, 06:51 AM
Targeting someone else in order to make an attack unparryable is not unlock tech. Unlock tech is defined by not being locked on at all. This is intended as if you could parry an attack not aimed at you then no one would ever land a hit in a team fight. Raiders fury is pretty noticable and easily dodgable in a team fight. in 4's in general it's usually not a good idea to attempt a parry. There are other specific interactions that happen when you lock onto other people.

For instance if I lock onto someone in front of me but block to the side i'm blocking the side anyway. Or if you throw an attack while locked onto someone else and I'm not locked onto you I won't get an indicator of the attack because it's not designated at me. Simply put this "unparryable exploit" exists because you can't parry attacks that are not directed at you. It's not a bug. It's not a tech. it's intended.

ChampionRuby50g
08-02-2018, 07:23 AM
Targeting someone else in order to make an attack unparryable is not unlock tech. Unlock tech is defined by not being locked on at all. This is intended as if you could parry an attack not aimed at you then no one would ever land a hit in a team fight. Raiders fury is pretty noticable and easily dodgable in a team fight. in 4's in general it's usually not a good idea to attempt a parry. There are other specific interactions that happen when you lock onto other people.

For instance if I lock onto someone in front of me but block to the side i'm blocking the side anyway. Or if you throw an attack while locked onto someone else and I'm not locked onto you I won't get an indicator of the attack because it's not designated at me. Simply put this "unparryable exploit" exists because you can't parry attacks that are not directed at you. It's not a bug. It's not a tech. it's intended.

I disagree on several things. For starters, I know I have parried friendly attacks, when they attack the same one target Iím locked onto and I parry the enemy attack at the same time. This attack is obviously not directed at me, because you canít lock onto friendlys, yet Iíve seen it happen multiple times and been in groups of 4 when teammates have said ďdid you just parry me?Ē Same goes for deflects in a way, it is entirely possible to deflect a friendly attack and use that agaisnt an enemy.

I have also seen red indicators pop up to my left or right from a friendly and opponent fighting, while the opponent is not locked onto me. I know this because Iíve seen the opponent staring directly at my opponent. I think this depends on your position in relation to the opponent though. Ive also received red indicators of incoming attacks while the enemy isnít even on my screen, and I know thereís friendlys around so Iím assuming here that they are fighting.

If this is an intended mechanic, itís BS and should not be in the game and needs to be removed ASAP. If itís not a bug, this should be easier to do than I previously thought.

Darkmight_cz
08-02-2018, 07:29 AM
Targeting someone else in order to make an attack unparryable is not unlock tech. Unlock tech is defined by not being locked on at all. This is intended as if you could parry an attack not aimed at you then no one would ever land a hit in a team fight. Raiders fury is pretty noticable and easily dodgable in a team fight. in 4's in general it's usually not a good idea to attempt a parry. There are other specific interactions that happen when you lock onto other people.

For instance if I lock onto someone in front of me but block to the side i'm blocking the side anyway. Or if you throw an attack while locked onto someone else and I'm not locked onto you I won't get an indicator of the attack because it's not designated at me. Simply put this "unparryable exploit" exists because you can't parry attacks that are not directed at you. It's not a bug. It's not a tech. it's intended.

+1
I just want to add that even other chars using this tech it's not Raider specific issue 😉

guarantee 102 damage ONE SHOT!!...
Wtf man Raiders chained UB is 50dmg even under revenge is nowhere near 100 dmg

Maxime_Qc-
08-02-2018, 08:24 AM
Knight_Raine a lot of thing that you are saying are false...

And for once i agreed with champion...

And yes you CAN parry attack that are not aimed at you i do it every day...

Especially on nobu zone "allways first reflex after activating revenge"

Maxime_Qc-
08-02-2018, 08:26 AM
+1
I just want to add that even other chars using this tech it's not Raider specific issue 😉

guarantee 102 damage ONE SHOT!!...
Wtf man Raiders chained UB is 50dmg even under revenge is nowhere near 100 dmg

I record more than one video to prove it.

May gonna share it ... soon

Darkmight_cz
08-02-2018, 08:37 AM
I record more than one video to prove it.

May gonna share it ... soon

OK coz I have seen on YouTube that even when you max out att dmg ( that mean all other stats on minimum) its 83dmg chained

But even that's not the point of this topic right? I think Knight_Raime explained it well 😉

SpaceJim12
08-02-2018, 09:43 AM
I just want to add that even other chars using this tech it's not Raider specific issue

It is Raider specific issue, cause he is the only one character, who have UB zone from netural, no specific condition, no special preparation. Come on, a lot of people already explained it to you. =_=
I see Raider in Dominion, who again and again try to start a zone and than switch the target, or unlock themself. 50% of this time it's looks funny, cause only compleat morons could play thit way, but still it's most annoying thing about Raider in 4v4.

Darkmight_cz
08-02-2018, 10:07 AM
It is Raider specific issue, cause he is the only one character, who have UB zone from netural, no specific condition, no special preparation. Come on, a lot of people already explained it to you. =_=
I see Raider in Dominion, who again and again try to start a zone and than switch the target, or unlock themself. 50% of this time it's looks funny, cause only compleat morons could play thit way, but still it's most annoying thing about Raider in 4v4.

Omg man yes you can use Riders UB zone from neutral for 29dmg it's not even worth it when you take in count speed and stam consumption and no one doing that maybe only noobs. Lot of ppl explained this to me lol. Iam just saying this is not Raiders specific issue and that's true. Btw Kensei UB with feat can do it from neutral, shugo, HL so wtf are you talking about man. I'd like to add part of Sneakly20 post
Itís not the only move that can do this, in fact every move in the game can do this.
That is true even not UB att can be used like this only difference there is that normal att can be blocked but when you try to parry it guess what happens - you will eat that hit

ChampionRuby50g
08-02-2018, 10:37 AM
Omg man yes you can use Riders UB zone from neutral for 29dmg it's not even worth it when you take in count speed and stam consumption and no one doing that maybe only noobs. Lot of ppl explained this to me lol. Iam just saying this is not Raiders specific issue and that's true. Btw Kensei UB with feat can do it from neutral, shugo, HL so wtf are you talking about man. I'd like to add part of Sneakly20 post
Itís not the only move that can do this, in fact every move in the game can do this.
That is true even not UB att can be used like this only difference there is that normal att can be blocked but when you try to parry it guess what happens - you will eat that hit

Or you can do a whiffed light attack and do it for 59 damage or dodge stunning tap. Shugo Iíll give you that, but then why isnít Shugo top pick for dominion? Kensei has to get a tier 4 feat to do that, feat balance is an entire different discussion though. Raider is easily the biggest culprit here. Shugo is sure annoying but Raider takes the top spot easy.

Charmzzz
08-02-2018, 10:42 AM
Omg man yes you can use Riders UB zone from neutral for 29dmg it's not even worth it when you take in count speed and stam consumption and no one doing that maybe only noobs. Lot of ppl explained this to me lol. Iam just saying this is not Raiders specific issue and that's true. Btw Kensei UB with feat can do it from neutral, shugo, HL so wtf are you talking about man. I'd like to add part of Sneakly20 post
It’s not the only move that can do this, in fact every move in the game can do this.
That is true even not UB att can be used like this only difference there is that normal att can be blocked but when you try to parry it guess what happens - you will eat that hit

Stop it. Just stop it. Your arguments are laughable again.

1. 29 Damage BEFORE Stats - best Zone Damage form neutral AND unblockable
2. 50 chained Damage BEFORE Stats - HUGE Zone Damage after a whiffed Light AND unblockable
3. It is Raider specific because NO ONE has a 1000ms unblockable Zone that can be Chained for huge Damage. NO ONE. Kensei with Feat, wtf? Feat level 4 compared to EVERYTIME from the start? Serious? Shugo - 1600ms, huge time to dodge. HL - nope, has not a wide arc unblockable Attack. WTF are YOU talking about?

SpaceJim12
08-02-2018, 11:24 AM
Targeting someone else in order to make an attack unparryable is not unlock tech. Unlock tech is defined by not being locked on at all. This is intended as if you could parry an attack not aimed at you then no one would ever land a hit in a team fight. Raiders fury is pretty noticable and easily dodgable in a team fight. in 4's in general it's usually not a good idea to attempt a parry. There are other specific interactions that happen when you lock onto other people.

For instance if I lock onto someone in front of me but block to the side i'm blocking the side anyway. Or if you throw an attack while locked onto someone else and I'm not locked onto you I won't get an indicator of the attack because it's not designated at me. Simply put this "unparryable exploit" exists because you can't parry attacks that are not directed at you. It's not a bug. It's not a tech. it's intended.

Still, I have this issue only with Raider. Keep in mind, that in 50% of Dominion matches now you have two + Raiders. And I really want to see, how you will dodge both their zones, and still fight against your opponent. It's all cool on words, but in real action it's a problem. Period.
If devs can't fix this any other way, so make Raider,s zone not unblockable.

Erhanninja
08-02-2018, 12:00 PM
Raider zone does good 70-80 damage on revenge. I see Raider players abusing it every single game. Itís not locking to another player. Itís unlocking. They initiate the attack then unlock the target because I see Raiders facing direction that there is no enemy while doing zone. Or I see attack indicator I know he is targeting somewhere else but I canít parry it. Itís massive damage with very big ark and range. Stun tap ******** is strong as it is. Instantly attack changing direction with stun and stamina loss. Its ridicilious in 4v4. They join a fight and just do unlock zone boom free damage. There is no risk involved. Have 2-3 raiders they just let UB rip everywhere. Worst thing can happen is light attack damage. But reward is massive attacking everybody in the range. . Get grabbed once and instantly you are facing an enemy with UB or into stun tap with no stamina with stun on top

HazelrahFirefly
08-02-2018, 12:20 PM
Raider zone does good 70-80 damage on revenge. I see Raider players abusing it every single game. Itís not locking to another player. Itís unlocking. They initiate the attack then unlock the target because I see Raiders facing direction that there is no enemy while doing zone. Or I see attack indicator I know he is targeting somewhere else but I canít parry it. Itís massive damage with very big ark and range. Stun tap ******** is strong as it is. Instantly attack changing direction with stun and stamina loss. Its ridicilious in 4v4. They join a fight and just do unlock zone boom free damage. There is no risk involved. Have 2-3 raiders they just let UB rip everywhere. Worst thing can happen is light attack damage. But reward is massive attacking everybody in the range. . Get grabbed once and instantly you are facing an enemy with UB or into stun tap with no stamina with stun on top

+1
It IS a specific Raider issue. It's not locking onto another player, its unlocking and getting an unblockable, unparryable attack. It has happened to me when I was the last person breaking. And it IS a big deal because sometimes you can't dodge or you will get GB by a different enemy.

Raider is pretty weak, but this bug needs to be fixed even if it makes him weaker. Orochis had to deal with worse top lights, Raiders can deal with this.

Charmzzz
08-02-2018, 12:58 PM
The echo is quite clear, isn't it Darkmight_cz? ;)

You can keep denying that it is too strong, that's ok as a Raider Main. What's not ok is your hyprocritical attitude - you know, PK Players and your comments...

Darkmight_cz
08-02-2018, 01:09 PM
The echo is quite clear, isn't it Darkmight_cz? ;)

You can keep denying that it is too strong, that's ok as a Raider Main. What's not ok is your hyprocritical attitude - you know, PK Players and your comments...

Omfg charmzzz you start to pissing me the only one with toxic attitude is you all Iam saying its not only Raiders issue which is true you can't deny that ffs chill out already. And btw I almost didn't recognize you coz you didn't even start with your common sentence and that is buff PK assap coz he is trash 😉
I have to laugh at kiddos like you everyone here are polite discussing politely only you and your aggressive behavior makes me sick
Now tell me is Raider only one hero currently who is using this tech Yes or No?

Charmzzz
08-02-2018, 01:36 PM
Omfg charmzzz you start to pissing me the only one with toxic attitude is you all Iam saying its not only Raiders issue which is true you can't deny that ffs chill out already. And btw I almost didn't recognize you coz you didn't even start with your common sentence and that is buff PK assap coz he is trash ��
I have to laugh at kiddos like you everyone here are polite discussing politely only you and your aggressive behavior makes me sick
Now tell me is Raider only one hero currently who is using this tech Yes or No?

He is not the only one who can use the unlock / lock switch tech, but he IS the ONLY ONE where it is a real problem. And I CAN deny that it is not only a Raider issues because IT IS. Like others have said in this and other Threads and explained why. You keep ignoring our arguments and just say "other Heroes have the same ability" which is simply NOT TRUE. It is false. No other Hero can do what Raider can do with the unlock / lock switch tech.

Darkmight_cz
08-02-2018, 02:31 PM
He is not the only one who can use the unlock / lock switch tech, but he IS the ONLY ONE where it is a real problem. And I CAN deny that it is not only a Raider issues because IT IS. Like others have said in this and other Threads and explained why. You keep ignoring our arguments and just say "other Heroes have the same ability" which is simply NOT TRUE. It is false. No other Hero can do what Raider can do with the unlock / lock switch tech.

Great finally. Because that is what Iam talking about that he is not only hero who can use this tech. Is it annoying yes it's, easy for raider to use yes. I never denyed that points man. All Iam saying in this thread and similar threads is that when you want to "fix" this on Raider do it even on the other heroes who can perform this. Do I make myself clear? Because quite frankly it's really stupid to "fix" it on Raider and let it be for others don't you think?

SpaceJim12
08-02-2018, 02:42 PM
Now tell me is Raider only one hero currently who is using this tech Yes or No?

Ok, if you still think, that this is all characters issue, so it will be ok, if every char in the roster will get an unblockable zone? Than this issue will be all heroes issue.
And you really can't see any other character using this cause of reasons.
Kensei with his 4th feat could just do lights and switching targets. I see no Kensei's for real, who start to unlock/switch for no reason while using 4th feat + zone. I didn't see it for Shugo as well, with his range he don't even need it, but everyone could take cup of coffee and than dodge his attack. It's just too slow with full charge and no good Shugo will charging his attack without reason.
And on the other hand, I see a lot Raiders, who always try to unlock in zone attacks. And when it's two raiders doing it, dodgin is not an answer.

So, let's get it clear for all.
Switching itself are a game mechanics, that let people fight with multiple enemies. It's ok.
Unlock gives you nothing in 90% of fights. Mostly you will die faster cause of unlock.
Unblockables itself are not a problem. They are all slow and dodgable/parryable.
Zone attack is a good tool to tone down multiple enemies pressure and clean minions, good feint start up for some chars. It's ok.
The issue we all talking about here happend, when zone + unblockable + unlock/switching.

And the only move in this game, that requires no special conditions and include ALL three parts is Raider's zone.
So, while you can't remove switching and can't let people parry attacks, that not locked on them, the only chance to solve this issue it's make a Raider's zone blockable. Faster and blockable. I think everyone will be ok with this change.

Charmzzz
08-02-2018, 02:47 PM
Great finally. Because that is what Iam talking about that he is not only hero who can use this tech. Is it annoying yes it's, easy for raider to use yes. I never denyed that points man. All Iam saying in this thread and similar threads is that when you want to "fix" this on Raider do it even on the other heroes who can perform this. Do I make myself clear? Because quite frankly it's really stupid to "fix" it on Raider and let it be for others don't you think?

I wonder what in my post wasn't clear about how Raider is a special problem and the other Heroes not. I just stop explaining here, because you keep ignoring the fact that Raider Zone is unblockable and therefor abuseable, the other Characters do not have this at all or, if they do (Shugo and Kensei), not as accessible or not as effective as Raider.

Go play your Mains (Raider, Kensei, Lawbringer) and keep abusing Raider Zone / Stampede and Lawbringer Bombs / Impale. There is a reason why those 3 guys are Top Dogs in Dominion. They will be nerfed for sure.

Knight_Raime
08-02-2018, 03:35 PM
I disagree on several things. For starters, I know I have parried friendly attacks, when they attack the same one target Iím locked onto and I parry the enemy attack at the same time. This attack is obviously not directed at me, because you canít lock onto friendlys, yet Iíve seen it happen multiple times and been in groups of 4 when teammates have said ďdid you just parry me?Ē Same goes for deflects in a way, it is entirely possible to deflect a friendly attack and use that agaisnt an enemy.

I have also seen red indicators pop up to my left or right from a friendly and opponent fighting, while the opponent is not locked onto me. I know this because Iíve seen the opponent staring directly at my opponent. I think this depends on your position in relation to the opponent though. Ive also received red indicators of incoming attacks while the enemy isnít even on my screen, and I know thereís friendlys around so Iím assuming here that they are fighting.

If this is an intended mechanic, itís BS and should not be in the game and needs to be removed ASAP. If itís not a bug, this should be easier to do than I previously thought.

If you can only parry friendly hits when you parry enemy hits (same with deflect) then those are not examples against what i'm talking about. That would most certainly be a bug.
Positioning of enemies heavily influences indicators. For example if you are locked onto a raider in front of you but there is a pk to your left that dash attacks and happens to move to your forward guard during said dash attack it will make both your left and your top indicator flicker red even though the attack is still only coming from the left.

Revenge has auto parry. If you pop revenge to auto parry someone's attack but that attack was aimed at someone else they don't get knocked on the ground. This combined with the standard behavior of not being able to parry an attack aimed at you (aside from the situation you mentioned) plus having no indicators at all when neither of you are locked onto eachother leads me to believe that it's 100% intended.

People taking advantage of this would be considered clever use of in game mechanics. So at best it can be called exploitation. I disagree about removing it. With how simple it is to block things in 4's There needs to be windows where people can land attacks. This is why you can be hit during CGB or guard broken during attacks as well. If static guard wasn't a thing forcing people to actually have to time their blocks and we also went ahead and made it so blocking didn't stop people's combos on the first hit I might agree with you.

But as is the blocking system for static guard heros in 4's is incredibly strong. Making it so some moves can't be parried in my opinion is more than fair. Especially when those are highly telegraphed and easily punished if you go for dodge instead of parry.

Knight_Raime
08-02-2018, 03:37 PM
Knight_Raine a lot of thing that you are saying are false...

And for once i agreed with champion...

And yes you CAN parry attack that are not aimed at you i do it every day...

Especially on nobu zone "allways first reflex after activating revenge"

You're straight up lying if you're auto parrying a nobu zone that's not aimed at you. Auto parry doesn't work on attacks that are not locked onto you. Alkenin has footage of this in his guide for external blocking that he dropped in June. So bring footage of you doing so and we'll talk.

DefiledDragon
08-02-2018, 03:57 PM
Dominion is a complete ****show. There are way more things wrong with dominion than Raiders zone. I would rather see Ubi put effort into improving the game mode on the whole before wasting time nerfing a perfectly good character.

SenBotsu893
08-02-2018, 04:01 PM
If you can only parry friendly hits when you parry enemy hits (same with deflect) then those are not examples against what i'm talking about. That would most certainly be a bug.
Positioning of enemies heavily influences indicators. For example if you are locked onto a raider in front of you but there is a pk to your left that dash attacks and happens to move to your forward guard during said dash attack it will make both your left and your top indicator flicker red even though the attack is still only coming from the left.

Revenge has auto parry. If you pop revenge to auto parry someone's attack but that attack was aimed at someone else they don't get knocked on the ground. This combined with the standard behavior of not being able to parry an attack aimed at you (aside from the situation you mentioned) plus having no indicators at all when neither of you are locked onto eachother leads me to believe that it's 100% intended.

People taking advantage of this would be considered clever use of in game mechanics. So at best it can be called exploitation. I disagree about removing it. With how simple it is to block things in 4's There needs to be windows where people can land attacks. This is why you can be hit during CGB or guard broken during attacks as well. If static guard wasn't a thing forcing people to actually have to time their blocks and we also went ahead and made it so blocking didn't stop people's combos on the first hit I might agree with you.

But as is the blocking system for static guard heros in 4's is incredibly strong. Making it so some moves can't be parried in my opinion is more than fair. Especially when those are highly telegraphed and easily punished if you go for dodge instead of parry.

were you one of the guys saying nobushis zone is broken because you cant parry it when used in this specific 4v4 not directly locked to target situation?

if yes then you must surely feel the same for raiders zone?

if no then i must have mixed you up with some other Forum guys.

Knight_Raime
08-02-2018, 05:03 PM
were you one of the guys saying nobushis zone is broken because you cant parry it when used in this specific 4v4 not directly locked to target situation?

if yes then you must surely feel the same for raiders zone?

if no then i must have mixed you up with some other Forum guys.

I don't recall that. But to clarify we're discussing two different things. What's being discussed here happens naturally from being locked onto someone else.
the specific unlock glitch that was being used with nobushi awhile back made her zone both unparryable and also unblockable. Most unlock tech back then did this.
This thread's exploit is talking about something that just makes attacks unparryable. You can still block them unless it's an unblockable.

Devils-_-legacy
08-02-2018, 05:59 PM
As there discussing raiders unblockable It's not that different both types end in free damage....

HazelrahFirefly
08-02-2018, 07:22 PM
I don't recall that. But to clarify we're discussing two different things. What's being discussed here happens naturally from being locked onto someone else.
the specific unlock glitch that was being used with nobushi awhile back made her zone both unparryable and also unblockable. Most unlock tech back then did this.
This thread's exploit is talking about something that just makes attacks unparryable. You can still block them unless it's an unblockable.

That's what we are talking about. The Raider can use his unblockable zone and then untarget to make it not parryable. No selecting another target; I was the last person on my team alive and it still worked.