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lokitexas
04-13-2010, 09:54 AM
I have noticed some real strange AI in the last few campaigns I have played. First I have 1946, UP2, stab 6.3, and the latest DGC.

1. Some missions (playing Ardennes as the LW) as soon as my flight gets close to and enemy fighter group, every single allied plane ignores everyone BUT me. I was in the middle group and had 12 spits pass everyone else to get on my six. I was literally running away with the whole mess of them following me while my flight picked them off. If I am in the first flight, my chances of making it out of first contact alive is pretty slim. Then...the next mission everything will back to normal again. I am not sure if its DCG that is doing it, or I am just so damn sexy the AI ignores everyones else. Anyone have any clues? I even went as far as to put every allied flight as "rookie" to see if that would do anything...it didnt.

2. Now on to tactics. When the AI is behaving ok, and I noticed a group of 2 spits attacking one of my FW190's I start to close. I noticed the main one attacking has his wingman close behind. So...do I go for the main plane, or the wingman? When I go for the main one, I am usually dodging (or shot from) enemy fire for his buddy. When I go for the wingman, I either cant save MY guy, or I get another pair of spits on me. Maybe I get tunnel vision when I am locked onto an enemy...and dont notice some spits lining up on my six. Any advice?

3. Lastly, what is the ideal climb speed, degree, for a FW190A8 in the game? I tried looking for that info and have gotten lots of different answers.

Thanks in advance for any answers/advice.

lokitexas
04-13-2010, 09:54 AM
I have noticed some real strange AI in the last few campaigns I have played. First I have 1946, UP2, stab 6.3, and the latest DGC.

1. Some missions (playing Ardennes as the LW) as soon as my flight gets close to and enemy fighter group, every single allied plane ignores everyone BUT me. I was in the middle group and had 12 spits pass everyone else to get on my six. I was literally running away with the whole mess of them following me while my flight picked them off. If I am in the first flight, my chances of making it out of first contact alive is pretty slim. Then...the next mission everything will back to normal again. I am not sure if its DCG that is doing it, or I am just so damn sexy the AI ignores everyones else. Anyone have any clues? I even went as far as to put every allied flight as "rookie" to see if that would do anything...it didnt.

2. Now on to tactics. When the AI is behaving ok, and I noticed a group of 2 spits attacking one of my FW190's I start to close. I noticed the main one attacking has his wingman close behind. So...do I go for the main plane, or the wingman? When I go for the main one, I am usually dodging (or shot from) enemy fire for his buddy. When I go for the wingman, I either cant save MY guy, or I get another pair of spits on me. Maybe I get tunnel vision when I am locked onto an enemy...and dont notice some spits lining up on my six. Any advice?

3. Lastly, what is the ideal climb speed, degree, for a FW190A8 in the game? I tried looking for that info and have gotten lots of different answers.

Thanks in advance for any answers/advice.

AndyJWest
04-13-2010, 10:34 AM
I think you'll find that the mods alter AI behaviour. We aren't allowed to help out with mods on this forum, though, so I'd ask about this elsewhere - preferably the place you got the mods.

According to IL-2 compare, best climb speed for a Fw190 A8 is 266 km/h at sea level. if you keep to that value in IAS as you climb you shouldn't be far off, though going a little faster should help keep the engine cooler, and give a bit of a margin in manoeuvrability if you get bounced, without having a great deal of effect on climb rate.

danjama
04-13-2010, 10:35 AM
Number 1 is one of the main reasons i haven't flown offline for a long time.

Never mind AI behaviour when you do finally get them one on one.

A fix would be appreciated.

TinyTim
04-13-2010, 10:42 AM
Don't forget that IL-2 compare gives you climb without boost!

For optimal climb, engage WEP and switch to manual prop pitch. In my experience you'll climb fastest roughly at 300kph.

Don't forget to switch the pitch back to auto during dives or you'll fry the engine.

AndyJWest
04-13-2010, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't forget that IL-2 compare gives you climb without boost! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you'll find that the best-climb speed should at least in theory be the same with or without boost, though obviously the greater the power, the greater the rate of climb. From looking at the IL-2 Compare graph, you would only be losing a few percent of best-climb rate at 300 km/h though, and with boost you will need the extra cooling even more.

Romanator21
04-13-2010, 11:55 AM
On the note of odd AI, I think it's odd that FB and PF AI behave differently. In my unmodded dynamic Stuka and I-153 campaigns I keep up with my flight in proper formation at 50-60% power and 60% pitch. For Bf-109s I even fly at 45% power.

In the PF Wildcat campaign, my flight is screaming along at 100%, spot a group of Zeros ahead at the same altitude, also going full throttle. Our flights head on, and half of all planes are wiped out on the first pass in spectacular fashion (collisions). I happen to be too close to my wingman who went "Boom" and so now I am falling to the Pacific in a daze.

Why such a discrepancy? Is there anything that can be done/ is being done short of mods?

lokitexas
04-13-2010, 12:32 PM
I have not seen that Romanator.

I noticed after the first few missions though the AI seem to go back to normal...as in not only seeing me but my wingmen now as well.

And did anyone have some advice for #2 question by chance?

Romanator21
04-13-2010, 12:41 PM
Regarding your second question, it depends on AI skill level. At about average level, the wingman does nothing, and you can kill the leader even while flying right in front of his wing man.

Against ace level, I wouldn't do that. If it's an emergency, I would just click a couple rounds at the leader from behind his wingman to get him to break.

As far as tunnel vision while on target, everyone does this who does not use F6 view. You can't kill the enemy in front of you by looking over your shoulder http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regarding your first, that depends on the mission profile. I think that if you set two flights randomly which meet, they will attack all planes. If your flight is set as a target however, then they will go for the leader to confuse and disband the remaining aircraft. I remember a mission brief in a dynamic campaign that instructed me as an I-16 pilot to attack the lead Stukas first, and then go for the rest.

I have to say that you are lucky if your wingmen notice the enemy. Flying for Slovakia in the Kuban in Bf-109 E-4s, I noticed some aircraft approaching my tail, which I assumed was the second half of my flight. I then watched red streamers come from the four P-39s behind my group of four (which was supposed to be eight, go figure). My wingmen didn't call out anything and just stayed in formation! And where the hell did the other four go! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Needless to say, we were slaughtered that day.

AndyJWest
04-13-2010, 12:51 PM
#2 is a difficult one. Usually, a wingman is an easier target, as you can assume he's going to tail his leader, and use this to get a better position on him. On the other hand, if you can get a good shot at the leader and at least make him break off his attack, you will be better off doing that. However, with other enemy AI about, your first priority has to be not making yourself an easy target, and this means knowing where everyone is, and what they are doing. Really, it comes down to the individual situation, and how well placed you are within it. Sometimes you are better off staying high as the AI engage, and looking for a good chance to make a quick kill, rather than piling into the melee.

K_Freddie
04-13-2010, 02:04 PM
1) Are you flight leader (nummer 1).. AI just love nummer 1's, modded or not.

2)whack the wingman first.. it makes the leader a bit more excited that he actually flies better.

3)after more than 5000+ hours in a FW190, I'm actually clueless on this fact http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Romanator21
04-13-2010, 03:37 PM
Based on Il-2 compare, at sea level the best rate of climb for the A-8 is 13 m/s at 270 km/h. This speed increases with altitude, so 300 km/h is probably the best speed to maintain.

lokitexas
04-13-2010, 03:43 PM
Ok...sadly I just found the WEP command, and now its assigned to my stick. I have not been using it since I started playing IL2.

This might help.

Also thanks for the info guys. And K_Freddie, I am not flight leader ( I am number 3 ). I am thinking its just the DCG using the first few missions to get everything settled, because I noticed again the first few couple new campaign missions = me getting slaughtered. If I just start and end 1-2 times everything is pretty much back to normal.

Erkki_M
04-14-2010, 12:55 AM
You have to jump to multiplayer. Everyone hates the AI, those who say its ok are liars. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Quote by Romanator 21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Based on Il-2 compare, at sea level the best rate of climb for the A-8 is 13 m/s at 270 km/h. This speed increases with altitude, so 300 km/h is probably the best speed to maintain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the best rate of climb speed is TAS at 1000m, so max 5kmph less in IAS. When you get higher the IAS(speed relative to the mass of air) for the best ROC will remain the same. When bombing and calculating position, use TAS, when maneuvering, look at the IAS... ...And Mach number.

Romanator21
04-14-2010, 01:58 AM
Yes, I know about IAS vs TAS, but I in an aircraft POH indicated Vy (best rate of climb) increases slightly with altitude. 300 km/s is also a nice round number that applies to almost all fighters.

Treetop64
04-14-2010, 11:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lokitexas:
I have noticed some real strange AI in the last few campaigns I have played. First I have 1946, UP2, stab 6.3, and the latest DGC.

1. Some missions (playing Ardennes as the LW) as soon as my flight gets close to and enemy fighter group, every single allied plane ignores everyone BUT me. I was in the middle group and had 12 spits pass everyone else to get on my six. I was literally running away with the whole mess of them following me while my flight picked them off. If I am in the first flight, my chances of making it out of first contact alive is pretty slim. Then...the next mission everything will back to normal again. I am not sure if its DCG that is doing it, or I am just so damn sexy the AI ignores everyones else. Anyone have any clues? I even went as far as to put every allied flight as "rookie" to see if that would do anything...it didnt.

2. Now on to tactics. When the AI is behaving ok, and I noticed a group of 2 spits attacking one of my FW190's I start to close. I noticed the main one attacking has his wingman close behind. So...do I go for the main plane, or the wingman? When I go for the main one, I am usually dodging (or shot from) enemy fire for his buddy. When I go for the wingman, I either cant save MY guy, or I get another pair of spits on me. Maybe I get tunnel vision when I am locked onto an enemy...and dont notice some spits lining up on my six. Any advice?

3. Lastly, what is the ideal climb speed, degree, for a FW190A8 in the game? I tried looking for that info and have gotten lots of different answers.

Thanks in advance for any answers/advice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Just one of the AI quirks in the game. It happens enough to get noticed from time to time, but it's not too bad. Things turn into a furball before long.

2. Sounds pretty normal. You guys are mixing it up. Use your head and try to gain an energy advantage (e.g. climb!) as soon as is practical, especially in the 190s.

3. You're going to get a lot of different answers, too. Generally, though, for takeoff I set the throttle for 1.4 on the MP, and trim for a 10 meters per second climb, maintaining about 260-275 kts up to about 4500 meters, depending on the variant of FW-190 we're talking about, of course. The radial-engined 190s weren't exactly high-altitude wonders...

However, if you're involved in an urgent tactical situation, then that's the wrong time to be thinking about graphs and charts.

Sillius_Sodus
04-14-2010, 11:46 PM
It really depends on your closing speed, but generally, if there is a pair going after a friendly, take a shot at the closest bandit, if you knock it out, great, if not it will break and you will have a some time to get the other one.

Or not... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif