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JOHN19812017
07-19-2018, 09:00 PM
ok guys we got a little comment this week about a possible quitting penalty this is a bad idea. you just started getting players back in the game old and new . im a carrer for my dad he has Parkinson's and i often have to quit out of a game to help him i do not want to get punished for this. also players should be able to quit whenever they like because of the poor system you have to match players. its a game something to play for FUN but if you get matched against someone 200+ rep lvls higher than you and you cannot touch them the system is broken. this is even worse in 4v4. all that will happen is players will quit get the penalty think F this and play something else and you will lose a good chunk of the players again. i dont know how your matching system works but i believe it should be based on parry's \ counterGB \ feints NOT LEVEL that way players would be less likely to quit. someone who can parry \ counterGB 90% vs someone who can only get 5% sucks but vs another player in the 90% range will make for some epic battles. i know the trolls out there will comment GIT GUD and all that crap but this is my opinion fell free to have your say

Charmzzz
07-19-2018, 09:03 PM
Yeah whatever Dude. If you join a game and have to leave cause of your Dad a 10 Minute temporary ban will not harm you.

Bring it back, otherwise people quit just before they lose, even if it is a close game.

Matchmaking is mostly fine for me. Sometimes you get steamrolled, happens in EVERY game with Matchmaking. That does not mean that Matchmaking itself is bad, just that the other Team did good and you did poor. And btw, Rep is not equal to skill.

Edit: Oh, and there was a grace period in the beginning. You won't get a penalty if you leave in the first 30 sec.

HazelrahFirefly
07-19-2018, 09:10 PM
Disagree Charmzzz, dude....

What if he has to leave or even just gets kicked for inactivity, but only has to go away for a few minutes? Comes back and has another five in which he can't play. You're being insensitive by even remotely suggesting that his dad might come second, or else should be accepting of the game punishment.

Besides, I had a friend get kicked last night, and we had a bot for the remainder of the Dominion. We won, so just like how you say accept the penalty, I say to you to just accept the bot and get steamrolled if you do. It happens, to quote you.

What needs to change is that it is always a level 3 bot thY replaces a missing player.

Baggin_
07-19-2018, 09:27 PM
I'm with charmzzz on this one. Quit penalty needs to come back for sure. There are way too many rage quitters out there. Sometimes emergencies do happen, so quit take care of it and come back in 10. No biggie.

JOHN19812017
07-19-2018, 10:45 PM
i love the way charmzzz replyed yeah whatever this kid clearly has no idea about real life problems.

ArmoredChocobo
07-19-2018, 10:58 PM
As much as it would suck for you I have my doubts that a large majority of players that quit matches does so to take care of a parent with Parkinson’s.

BTTrinity
07-19-2018, 10:59 PM
No game punishes people for leaving casual play, this game should be no different

HazelrahFirefly
07-20-2018, 12:59 AM
No game punishes people for leaving casual play, this game should be no different

Yep yep. Besides, people rage quit before and then always will. Replace the penalty and you just have people closing the app.

We.the.North
07-20-2018, 01:22 AM
I'll agree to a leaver's penalty the day 100% of my matches starts at the very start with 8 players.

Darkmight_cz
07-20-2018, 01:33 AM
Yeah whatever Dude. If you join a game and have to leave cause of your Dad a 10 Minute temporary ban will not harm you.

Bring it back, otherwise people quit just before they lose, even if it is a close game.

Matchmaking is mostly fine for me. Sometimes you get steamrolled, happens in EVERY game with Matchmaking. That does not mean that Matchmaking itself is bad, just that the other Team did good and you did poor. And btw, Rep is not equal to skill.

Edit: Oh, and there was a grace period in the beginning. You won't get a penalty if you leave in the first 30 sec.

I agree with that statement completely.

To BTtrinity
No game punishes people for leaving casual play, this game should be no different

Man that's not true at all hots and many other online games has penalties for leaving even as you said casual game or quick match 😝

Vakris_One
07-20-2018, 01:35 AM
I'll agree to a leaver's penalty the day 100% of my matches starts at the very start with 8 players.
You have always been able to quit penalty free in the first 30 seconds of any match though. That completely covers your option to refuse to play a match that is already in progress if you so wish.

CandleInTheDark
07-20-2018, 02:56 AM
If ranked mode had a viable population I'd say leave it as it is, certainly because ranked mode also does without great score and as long as there is a place people can always have their character of choice in casual single pick isn't as bad a thing as it would be otherwise.

Problem is that is not a viable population and while the argument is there that this is casual play, the casual play of people who stick in games should be more of a priority than those who decide that they would rather find a new game than see a close one out the moment it turns and most who do quit as far as i have seen so so from that losing position so something, whether changing the ai or reintroducing this needs to be done until such a time that ranked is more viable. Right now it is at the point I will only dominion as part of a group because of the number of times I have seen games become unwinnbable due to having a bot after the point a player will be put back in its place.

And to be clear I am in no way saying that a person you care for should come second to a game, I work in care, it is a full attention thing when something is needed but i do think that those who constantly leave games for no reason other than they are losing need to be targeted in some way when ranked is not a viable alternative.

Halvtand
07-20-2018, 12:13 PM
Here's a thought:
If you know that you may have to leave at a moment's notice, if you don't know if you'll be able to sit through a full minute match without having to leave - Maybe don't play a team based competitive online multiplayer game, even in casual.

I get that you want to play this game, and that in reality it's not at all like you're running out every match or anything like that. But if you are 'on call' so to speak there must be better games to play. Stuff where you don't disappoint a whole team or a whole match, stuff where you won't actually have to close down the entire game to lave for two minutes, stuff that doesn't take up quite as much of your attention, stuff that you maybe even won't have to pause to step away from?

Sure, it sucks to get a 10 minute penalty for a silly thing like that. I felt it too when I accidentally stood still for too long and was kicked for inactivity. But that's the thing, if this happens sometimes to you for important reasons (or if you like me are just stupid) then it won't affect you that much. The people who will suffer from this change are the rage-quitters. Not only does leaving count as a loss, but it negates their defeatist "Why should I sit here and wait to lose"-argument and may even make them actually try to turn the game around instead.

HazelrahFirefly
07-20-2018, 12:22 PM
Here's a thought:
If you know that you may have to leave at a moment's notice, if you don't know if you'll be able to sit through a full minute match without having to leave - Maybe don't play a team based competitive online multiplayer game, even in casual.

I get that you want to play this game, and that in reality it's not at all like you're running out every match or anything like that. But if you are 'on call' so to speak there must be better games to play. Stuff where you don't disappoint a whole team or a whole match, stuff where you won't actually have to close down the entire game to lave for two minutes, stuff that doesn't take up quite as much of your attention, stuff that you maybe even won't have to pause to step away from?

Sure, it sucks to get a 10 minute penalty for a silly thing like that. I felt it too when I accidentally stood still for too long and was kicked for inactivity. But that's the thing, if this happens sometimes to you for important reasons (or if you like me are just stupid) then it won't affect you that much. The people who will suffer from this change are the rage-quitters. Not only does leaving count as a loss, but it negates their defeatist "Why should I sit here and wait to lose"-argument and may even make them actually try to turn the game around instead.

A response purely from the perspective of priviledge.

Vakris_One
07-20-2018, 12:28 PM
A response purely from the perspective of priviledge.
No, just a logical argument put forth politely. You don't know Halvtand's life so I would steer clear of assuming "priviledge" simply because he is putting forward his own opinion.

SpaceJim12
07-20-2018, 12:43 PM
What if he has to leave or even just gets kicked for inactivity, but only has to go away for a few minutes? Comes back and has another five in which he can't play. You're being insensitive by even remotely suggesting that his dad might come second, or else should be accepting of the game punishment.

Some simple thing could solve this problem. Reconnection system. If someone leave match, block MM to him for a 5min, and only option he have is to reconnect to the last game. If after 5min player still do not reconnet to the game, give him penalty for 30 min. Sometimes, when my teammate loose connection or have in-game error, I want to quit, just we could play together. But if he have chance to reconnect, everything would be great.=)

Vakris_One
07-20-2018, 01:14 PM
Some simple thing could solve this problem. Reconnection system. If someone leave match, block MM to him for a 5min, and only option he have is to reconnect to the last game. If after 5min player still do not reconnet to the game, give him penalty for 30 min. Sometimes, when my teammate loose connection or have in-game error, I want to quit, just we could play together. But if he have chance to reconnect, everything would be great.=)
That's a pretty good solution in my opinion. If someone leaves then he can only re-enter back into the match they left or if it has finished then give them a 5-10 minute penalty. 30 minute bans would be too excessive.

I think that would be fair enough to people who need to leave for an emergency but return in time to be put back into the same match.

SpaceJim12
07-20-2018, 01:24 PM
That's a pretty good solution in my opinion. If someone leaves then he can only re-enter back into the match they left or if it has finished then give them a 5-10 minute penalty. 30 minute bans would be too excessive.

I think that would be fair enough to people who need to leave for an emergency but return in time to be put back into the same match.

And we need faction text there. Like "Crusade is not over yet, knight!", "Valhalla could wait, viking" and "No word about escape in Bushido, samurai" =)

Devils-_-legacy
07-20-2018, 01:38 PM
I don't think bringing it back will change much close app would still work

Charmzzz
07-20-2018, 01:53 PM
I don't think bringing it back will change much close app would still work

Right now you can quit and instantly queue again. Closing the App means: loading up the game with it's annoying Splash Screens after every leave. That's at least a penalty. :p

HazelrahFirefly
07-20-2018, 03:08 PM
No, just a logical argument put forth politely. You don't know Halvtand's life so I would steer clear of assuming "priviledge" simply because he is putting forward his own opinion.

He directly stated that if someone doesn't have the luxury he has of being able to play FH the same way as him then they shouldn't play.

Priviledge. I don't mean race, gender, or even finances; we're not talking politics here. I mean the gaming lifestyle he has is clearly a priviledge of his that he just flaunted over another player.


Right now you can quit and instantly queue again. Closing the App means: loading up the game with it's annoying Splash Screens after every leave. That's at least a penalty. :p

As I stated in the other thread, there's no difference. It's a placebo effect if you think there is.

Devils-_-legacy
07-20-2018, 03:29 PM
Right now you can quit and instantly queue again. Closing the App means: loading up the game with it's annoying Splash Screens after every leave. That's at least a penalty. :p

I guess lol but the screens don't last more then a minute I don't mind the leaver penalty tbf if this was ranked I'd say keep it but casual play I don't think it should be applied loss of xp and a loss is enough imo

CandleInTheDark
07-20-2018, 03:30 PM
He directly stated that if someone doesn't have the luxury he has of being able to play FH the same way as him then they shouldn't play.

Priviledge. I don't mean race, gender, or even finances; we're not talking politics here. I mean the gaming lifestyle he has is clearly a priviledge of his that he just flaunted over another player.

Ok so I didn't want to say this in my first post, but as someone who works in care he isn't wrong. I don't go on break when any of the people I look after are awake (different to day shift where there are more of them and they get cover) and if they wake up needing something and I am on break or eating (/worse cooking) dinner then I make safe, drop whatever it is I am doing and I have my mind fully on the job. If you are a person's carer, then the time they might need you is not a time I would be doing something I couldn't drop. Now yeah I am only a carer on a set time, but I would not be doing something I could not pause at times of the day that I am most likely to be needed if it was a family member of mine. I totally would find times of the day that has proven to be less chance of being interrupted to unwind but would still be ready to drop it at a moment's notice because family comes before anything else.

OP's other argument was you should be able to drop it when matched with people 200 reps higher than you, not going into the whole rep does not equal skill argument bit that is what the thirty second grace window is for.


As I stated in the other thread, there's no difference. It's a placebo effect if you think there is.

Not really, this definitely spiked when the penalty left, there were always some people leaving now and again,, say 20% of the games, now it feels more like 90%.

Vakris_One
07-20-2018, 03:43 PM
He directly stated that if someone doesn't have the luxury he has of being able to play FH the same way as him then they shouldn't play.

Priviledge. I don't mean race, gender, or even finances; we're not talking politics here. I mean the gaming lifestyle he has is clearly a priviledge of his that he just flaunted over another player.
Please quote him on that because to my knowledge and from reading over his post twice he did not directly state any such thing.

He stated that if you don't have the luxury of an undisturbed gameplay session then perhaps another type of game might be more apropriate. One less dependant on team based PvP perhaps. That's not flaunting a privilege, that's just making a common sense observation.

Halvtand
07-20-2018, 05:11 PM
A response purely from the perspective of priviledge.

Instead of trying to attack me as a person, please try to counter the point I am raising in my post. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

Sincerely yours, Halvtand with the gaming lifestyle.

Halvtand
07-20-2018, 05:13 PM
I guess lol but the screens don't last more then a minute I don't mind the leaver penalty tbf if this was ranked I'd say keep it but casual play I don't think it should be applied loss of xp and a loss is enough imo

I think Charmzzz is talking more about a psychological penalty, as in "Urgh, now I have to sit through this again, FML" rather than actual time wasted.

Arekonator
07-20-2018, 05:15 PM
Please quote him on that because to my knowledge and from reading over his post twice he did not directly state any such thing.

He stated that if you don't have the luxury of an undisturbed gameplay session then perhaps another type of game might be more apropriate. One less dependant on team based PvP perhaps. That's not flaunting a privilege, that's just making a common sense observation.

Got to get those victimhood points somehow.

Devils-_-legacy
07-20-2018, 05:26 PM
I think Charmzzz is talking more about a psychological penalty, as in "Urgh, now I have to sit through this again, FML" rather than actual time wasted.

Maybe it's still not much of a penalty if you can bypass it so easily ik if i left id be more happy i didnt have wait 10 mins i just have to re open the app. To me it still feels like there sticking a plaster on the issue like why are they leaving if it's a majority of people are leaving a game there must be a reason? Is it there but hurt there getting stomped(if this is the reason im disappointed lol)is there a cause like bad matchmaking.

HazelrahFirefly
07-20-2018, 05:29 PM
Instead of trying to attack me as a person, please try to counter the point I am raising in my post. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

Sincerely yours, Halvtand with the gaming lifestyle.

I'm not even remotely attacking you. I'm saying your argument is from a perspective of, "if you can't play the game like me, then don't play at all." Its a fake argument; doesn't have a place in the conversation.

You told him to quit the game. No, bad poster!

HazelrahFirefly
07-20-2018, 05:31 PM
Please quote him on that because to my knowledge and from reading over his post twice he did not directly state any such thing.

He stated that if you don't have the luxury of an undisturbed gameplay session then perhaps another type of game might be more apropriate. One less dependant on team based PvP perhaps. That's not flaunting a privilege, that's just making a common sense observation.

I'll just have to flatly disagree. Can't even understand how you could think such a thing.

Please tell the playerbase and Ubisoft that you want less people to play the game then....

Alustar.
07-20-2018, 06:15 PM
So here's the deal with using the "I'm a caregiver, I have emergencies" Excuse:

That means you are working. Whether you are a professional caregiver, or providing for a family member who can't for themselves(elderly, disabled or small children) you are technically working. And as such, you shouldn't be engaging in leisure activities. Doing so is actually grounds for criminal negligence charges.

Not to mention you throw this argument out there in an attempt to garner some sympathy vote "look at him, that's so selfless". This couldn't be further from the truth. You aren't being selfless when you use someone else's condition to justify an opinion like this about a video game, and shame on you for even trying!

As a caregiver you have a responsibility and obligation to another human being. Using that obligation is not the quality of a mature adult, is that of a n immature man-child.

Devils-_-legacy
07-20-2018, 06:31 PM
So here's the deal with using the "I'm a caregiver, I have emergencies" Excuse:

That means you are working. Whether you are a professional caregiver, or providing for a family member who can't for themselves(elderly, disabled or small children) you are technically working. And as such, you shouldn't be engaging in leisure activities. Doing so is actually grounds for criminal negligence

You didnt even need to comment This. As is far from accurate and I will admit this has me a bit triggered so all I'm gun and say is when I was a young carer if I had 5 mins in between my duties to play in game i would have doesn't make you selfish and an emergancy could mean life or death if they need to quit so be it.

Alustar.
07-20-2018, 06:42 PM
You didnt even need to comment This. As is far from accurate and I will admit this has me a bit triggered so all I'm gun and say is when I was a young carer if I had 5 mins in between my duties to play in game i would have doesn't make you selfish and an emergancy could mean life or death if they need to quit so be it.

Right, an emergency could mean life or death, try explaining that to the individuals family, when the reason you couldn't provide on the spot care because you were stuck in a video game. A quit penalty is not going to change that. In an emergency the last thing on your mind should be "oh I how I can make it back to the game in time."

I know several adults that provide care to another and they have never been of this mindset. When they are engaged with a patient, that's it. They come first. Very few of them even play games during their working hours. They understand that, "there is a time and place for everything." When you are working, that is not the time to be worried about leisurely activities.

Also no ones saying they can't quit. They still can. And honestly I can't think of any circumstance that constitutes as an emergency, wherein a quit penalty would even effect them. By the time you've come to a resolution for such an even, that ten minute penalty is likely gone or soon to expire.

Halvtand
07-20-2018, 06:43 PM
I'm not even remotely attacking you. I'm saying your argument is from a perspective of, "if you can't play the game like me, then don't play at all." Its a fake argument; doesn't have a place in the conversation.

You told him to quit the game. No, bad poster!

If you can't refute my argument, please don't resort to ad hominem attacks, contradiction and name calling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem). You're derailing the thread and only make yourself look bad.

My stance and argument is quite clear: If you cannot (within reason) spend ten minutes uninterrupted on a specific game that takes approximately ten minutes to play, then that specific game is a poor choice for that particular time. There is a myriad of games out there, surely some of them are better suited for the situation the OP is in.

To further the original narrative I will even develop my stance and say that if For Honor is the only game for you at this time, there are modes which are pausable. Playing 1vAI or the campaign allows you to pause the game if something should happen.

Devils-_-legacy
07-20-2018, 07:01 PM
Right, an emergency could mean life or death, try explaining that to the individuals family, when the reason you couldn't provide on the spot care because you were stuck in a video game. A quit penalty is not going to change that. In an emergency the last thing on your mind should be "oh I how I can make it back to the game in time."
Also no ones saying they can't quit. They still can. And honestly I can't think of any circumstance that constitutes as an emergency, wherein a quit penalty would even effect them. By the time you've come to a resolution for such an even, that ten minute penalty is likely gone or soon to expire.
Depends on the person your careing for if the top of my head a seziure last around 3 mins It would defo be close to expiring though after you made sure there okay.
It would of been my family you bell that's what a young carer is someone under 18 who looks after a family member I wasn't on about the people who are paid to do it as a service as if they took 5 mins off a 6 hr shift that's rightly on them but when your looking after someone 24 hrs a day you try to relax on a game when you can as it's far from predictable you just have to leap into action when the need arises. I was more triggered on the symphony card bit I guess I quoted the wrong section of your post my bad it was in haste

Darkmight_cz
07-20-2018, 07:14 PM
If you can't refute my argument, please don't resort to ad hominem attacks, contradiction and name calling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem). You're derailing the thread and only make yourself look bad.

My stance and argument is quite clear: If you cannot (within reason) spend ten minutes uninterrupted on a specific game that takes approximately ten minutes to play, then that specific game is a poor choice for that particular time. There is a myriad of games out there, surely some of them are better suited for the situation the OP is in.

To further the original narrative I will even develop my stance and say that if For Honor is the only game for you at this time, there are modes which are pausable. Playing 1vAI or the campaign allows you to pause the game if something should happen.

Exactly

HazelrahFirefly
07-20-2018, 07:38 PM
Why shouldn't everyone be allowed to play the game they enjoy? That's the answer to your ********.

There's little to no reason for the quit penalty. Its nonsense to say otherwise.

I didn't attack anyone. It's a discussion and now you, Halvtand, are playing the victim. You took an illogical and privileged stance/position and I called you out. Now its 'wah wah he attacked me' time. I dont give two craps about you, dont consider you at all. It's your perspective on the argument that I question.

MuscleTech12018
07-20-2018, 08:00 PM
I laugh at this: all you have to do is to ctrl + delete + close the process and rejoin the game. VOILA no loss, no quit penalty :))

What's all about this quit penalty ?:))

UbiJurassic
07-20-2018, 08:48 PM
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts so far on the possibility of quit penalty returning. We know this is somewhat of a polarizing topic for some people and I'll be noting down and forwarding everyone's thoughts on it over to the team.

High-Horse
07-20-2018, 09:10 PM
i love the way charmzzz replyed yeah whatever this kid clearly has no idea about real life problems.

lol real life problems do not include having to wait out a penalty because you had to quit midmatch.

Alustar.
07-20-2018, 09:13 PM
lol real life problems do not include having to wait out a penalty because you had to quit midmatch.

Furthermore personal obligations and emergencies should not be used in a discussion regarding quality of life topics.

Vakris_One
07-20-2018, 09:14 PM
I'll just have to flatly disagree. Can't even understand how you could think such a thing.

Please tell the playerbase and Ubisoft that you want less people to play the game then....
You're overreacting and down right inventing things now. Nobody has said we want less people to play the game. I don't understand how you can misconstrue a common sense observation with "priviledge" and wanting less players to play but somehow you have. I think I'll leave you to it.

HazelrahFirefly
07-21-2018, 11:11 AM
You're overreacting and down right inventing things now. Nobody has said we want less people to play the game. I don't understand how you can misconstrue a common sense observation with "priviledge" and wanting less players to play but somehow you have. I think I'll leave you to it.

It's pretty damn simple. How embarrassing for you lol.

JOHN19812017
07-21-2018, 11:27 AM
So here's the deal with using the "I'm a caregiver, I have emergencies" Excuse:

That means you are working. Whether you are a professional caregiver, or providing for a family member who can't for themselves(elderly, disabled or small children) you are technically working. And as such, you shouldn't be engaging in leisure activities. Doing so is actually grounds for criminal negligence charges.

Not to mention you throw this argument out there in an attempt to garner some sympathy vote "look at him, that's so selfless". This couldn't be further from the truth. You aren't being selfless when you use someone else's condition to justify an opinion like this about a video game, and shame on you for even trying!

As a caregiver you have a responsibility and obligation to another human being. Using that obligation is not the quality of a mature adult, is that of a n immature man-child.

look here im with him everyday of the week i actually moved him into my house the only break i get is alittle game time in the evenings. im not looking for sympathy i just do not want my only free time spoilt because of something that is unnecessary. your 100% *******

Halvtand
07-21-2018, 11:46 AM
HazelrahFirefly.
Before we add projection to the list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection), you say that “There's little to no reason for the quit penalty”. Here’s the reason: Players are quitting matches before the matches are done.
This is a big problem for any PvP game and not just FH specifically. Anecdotal evidence such as “I was able to win with a bot” doesn’t matter, because for every such story there will be one that claims, “I lost because of a bot”. The amount of quitters is big enough for the community and devs to notice, and for the devs to want to do something about it. In this case, take back the quit penalty.

One or a few players hurt by this, that may have to leave mid-game because of entirely legit reasons is in no way a valid argument against the implementation of a quit-penalty. If you are so hurt by having to wait 10 minutes before re-entering the queue, then there are other games that won’t penalise you for leaving and where your leaving doesn’t screw up the balance for every other player in the match.

Please do quote me where you claim I’ve told someone to stop playing the game. What I have argued from the beginning is that while being on call, a game such as FH is an unsuitable game to play. My stance has never been as you wrote "if you can't play the game like me, then don't play at all." You are ignoring the crucial situational context of the argument to fuel your own narrative.

There is nothing illogical and privileged about the opinion that if you don’t currently have the time and opportunity to play a certain game, then you should not play that game at that time. A point of view that was backed up by a professional carer.

I’m sorry it didn’t work out the way you planned, I’m sure that wherever you come from pointing fingers and yelling “priviledge” is a watertight argument, but it doesn’t work like that in the real world. You have not presented a single argument for your stance or against mine over multiple posts. Instead of presenting arguments you’ve made some pretty bold and unsubstantiated claims about both my person and other forum users, and as such has derailed the thread from its original purpose. As you’ve made it quite clear that you’re not interested in reaching an understanding or exchanging ideas I am going to take this moment to, as the idiom goes, stop feeding the troll.

For reference:

A response purely from the perspective of priviledge.

He directly stated that if someone doesn't have the luxury he has of being able to play FH the same way as him then they shouldn't play.

Priviledge. I don't mean race, gender, or even finances; we're not talking politics here. I mean the gaming lifestyle he has is clearly a priviledge of his that he just flaunted over another player.

As I stated in the other thread, there's no difference. It's a placebo effect if you think there is.


I'm not even remotely attacking you. I'm saying your argument is from a perspective of, "if you can't play the game like me, then don't play at all." Its a fake argument; doesn't have a place in the conversation.

You told him to quit the game. No, bad poster!

Why shouldn't everyone be allowed to play the game they enjoy? That's the answer to your ********.

There's little to no reason for the quit penalty. Its nonsense to say otherwise.

I didn't attack anyone. It's a discussion and now you, Halvtand, are playing the victim. You took an illogical and privileged stance/position and I called you out. Now its 'wah wah he attacked me' time. I dont give two craps about you, dont consider you at all. It's your perspective on the argument that I question.
Full posts quoted and bold added for accuracy and clarification. Links provided in my responses:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Also:
http://img.techpowerup.org/090421/Do-not-feed-the-troll.png

Halvtand
07-21-2018, 11:56 AM
look here im with him everyday of the week i actually moved him into my house the only break i get is alittle game time in the evenings. im not looking for sympathy i just do not want my only free time spoilt because of something that is unnecessary. your 100% *******

Look. It's not that we're unsympathetic to your situation. Having that kind of commitment is a huge deal and it does suck big time that the simple act of blowing off some steam in a video game should be impaired by something as inane as a casual quit-penalty. However, the issue that the devs are trying to resolve is so much bigger than the nuisance of having to wait for 10 minutes because we were mid-game when something happened.
Apparently the issue is big enough that the devs want to take drastic measures like instating a quit-penalty into a casual game format. If you want to stop it, please provide an alternative solution, because an argument like "I have a legit reason for quitting mid-game" just won't cut it.

HazelrahFirefly
07-21-2018, 12:52 PM
I'm going to drop all the priviledge talk even though I still fully believe it. Halvtand, you're the worst kind of a**hole. Please just ignore me instead of responding in such a childish manner.

To everyone else,
there simply is no reason to have a quit penalty. It's the opposite of quality of life. You all state that it should exist to persuade someone, who might have quit, into remaining in the game. "Morally caging" someone into staying in a match they don't want to play isn't a quality of life. It's the opposite! There are reasons to quit. There aren't reasons to stay. You will receive a bot partner if someone quits, this is in the game. That means that someone quitting, being kicked, or disconnecting has already been accounted for. Tacking on a penalty atop that is harming the playerbase for no reason save to persuade people into playing something else.

Let's examine it, because there will always be people who have to quit. I'll never accept the argument that the amount of quitters has increased. I play the game as well and it feels exactly the same; I guarantee the increase any of you feel is a placebo because you know there isn't a penalty. Either way, as I said, there will always be people who quit. First you have people who quit because of rage - no one appreciates this, but they are apart of the playerbase all the same. So they quit because of a number of reasons (opponent has incredibly high ping, matchmaking put them against someone far above their skill level, deathball). They then hope to start up another match but realize that 9 minutes at 30 seconds approximately have to pass.

Then you have the people who quit not because of rage. There can be a thousand reasons for this, but personally I can state that the kid's kindle could get turned off and so I have to spend three minutes getting it back on and loading up her cartoon/game. Even if I don't have to quit to do this, I will be disconnected anyway. Or, maybe to the moral argument, I know it is better to quit to at least get a bot that might take zones or kill minions in my place, or perhaps another player will be brought in. Hell, there are times when you have to literally only be away from the game for a minute (kid has to go potty for example). Then when these players return they are supposed to wait six, seven, eight, or even nine minutes to play again?

A lot of us already don't have that much time to play, and so suddenly For Honor is looking a lot less appealing when that timer comes up. I could just go play another game that doesn't punish me for being human. No game should have a quit penalty outside of a ranking system. Casual play is casual for a reason. Besides, as stated, the quit penalty does jack all once people realize it has returned. If they aren't turned off from the game then they will know just to hard quit out and waste three minutes as opposed to ten.

It's the opposite of quality of life.

Darkmight_cz
07-21-2018, 02:31 PM
I'm going to drop all the priviledge talk even though I still fully believe it. Halvtand, you're the worst kind of a**hole. Please just ignore me instead of responding in such a childish manner.

To everyone else,
there simply is no reason to have a quit penalty. It's the opposite of quality of life. You all state that it should exist to persuade someone, who might have quit, into remaining in the game. "Morally caging" someone into staying in a match they don't want to play isn't a quality of life. It's the opposite! There are reasons to quit. There aren't reasons to stay. You will receive a bot partner if someone quits, this is in the game. That means that someone quitting, being kicked, or disconnecting has already been accounted for. Tacking on a penalty atop that is harming the playerbase for no reason save to persuade people into playing something else.

Let's examine it, because there will always be people who have to quit. I'll never accept the argument that the amount of quitters has increased. I play the game as well and it feels exactly the same; I guarantee the increase any of you feel is a placebo because you know there isn't a penalty. Either way, as I said, there will always be people who quit. First you have people who quit because of rage - no one appreciates this, but they are apart of the playerbase all the same. So they quit because of a number of reasons (opponent has incredibly high ping, matchmaking put them against someone far above their skill level, deathball). They then hope to start up another match but realize that 9 minutes at 30 seconds approximately have to pass.

Then you have the people who quit not because of rage. There can be a thousand reasons for this, but personally I can state that the kid's kindle could get turned off and so I have to spend three minutes getting it back on and loading up her cartoon/game. Even if I don't have to quit to do this, I will be disconnected anyway. Or, maybe to the moral argument, I know it is better to quit to at least get a bot that might take zones or kill minions in my place, or perhaps another player will be brought in. Hell, there are times when you have to literally only be away from the game for a minute (kid has to go potty for example). Then when these players return they are supposed to wait six, seven, eight, or even nine minutes to play again?

A lot of us already don't have that much time to play, and so suddenly For Honor is looking a lot less appealing when that timer comes up. I could just go play another game that doesn't punish me for being human. No game should have a quit penalty outside of a ranking system. Casual play is casual for a reason. Besides, as stated, the quit penalty does jack all once people realize it has returned. If they aren't turned off from the game then they will know just to hard quit out and waste three minutes as opposed to ten.

It's the opposite of quality of life.

Iam sorry I have to laugh to your arguments. So pretty much all you saying here is when you don't have time to finish 10 min match and you screw all others players experience its OK right. 😝 if you don't have time don't play PvP ffs play PvUI. When I launch game as PVP I want to play this mod but right now I can't coz salty morons leaving every match. Nearly every PVP match right now ends as PVUI so wtf man don't be so selfish. I have 3 months old daughter, 2 large dogs and wife so I play PvP at night when is nearly no chance I will be interrupted. I fully agree that penalties for leaving match should be in game again. They are in most PvP games anyway even in quick match. Peace out 😉

HazelrahFirefly
07-21-2018, 04:08 PM
Peace out indeed. You dont know what selfish means.

Arekonator
07-21-2018, 04:49 PM
So asking people to take into account if they might leave mid match so they dont screw over 7 other people is selfish. Right...

Darkmight_cz
07-21-2018, 05:01 PM
Peace out indeed. You dont know what selfish means.

Well educate me Mr. I will leave whenever I want to and piss on other 7 players 😁
Sorry but that is clearly selfish behavior

HazelrahFirefly
07-21-2018, 06:05 PM
So asking people to take into account if they might leave mid match so they dont screw over 7 other people is selfish. Right...

"Screw over" lol. They give you bots and, again, a quit penalty doesn't effect people quitting.

Vakris_One
07-21-2018, 06:48 PM
I guess my top question has to be: why would you even play an online team based PvP game if you want to (or simply have to) quit out of 80% of your matches??? Surely there are better suited games to play for the occassions when free time is a rare commodity.

Devils-_-legacy
07-21-2018, 06:56 PM
I guess my top question has to be: why would you even play an online team based PvP game if you want to (or simply have to) quit out of 80% of your matches??? Surely there are better suited games to play for the occassions when free time is a rare commodity.

Might be down to it being so Unpredictable tbf unfortunately you can't predict everything might just be one of those days but you can still close app so

Darkmight_cz
07-21-2018, 07:15 PM
"Screw over" lol. They give you bots and, again, a quit penalty doesn't effect people quitting.

I hate when I have to repeat myself. OK for a last time. When I launch PvP mode I don't want to play PvUI (bot) just like now. Coz some selfish salty ....... just want to leave without penalty everytime he wants to. Many PvP games has penalties for leaving even QM and its completely reasonable. I see no logical reason why they shouldn't implement penalty back into game.

Arekonator
07-21-2018, 08:31 PM
"Screw over" lol. They give you bots and, again, a quit penalty doesn't effect people quitting.

>Acting as if even lvl3 bot was a reasonable replacement of an actual player. Wew lad.
Quit penalty might or might not affect the people quitting, but it sure as hell does affet the people you quitted on.

For the record, i was against quit penalty before, while we were still on P2P, and people quitting often crashed the whole lobby. That time i was seeing it as useless band-aid solution. But now when the serversa are actually stable, i see no reason not to have it. If quit penalty doesnt affect people quitting, then it just means it needs to be made more severe. If you quit only once in a while because of emergency then it still doesnt affect you.

The_B0G_
07-21-2018, 09:47 PM
Couldn't care either way, like others have said, closing app negates the penalty anyway. It may keep a few people from quitting who otherwise would have though, who knows.

Rikuto01.tv
07-23-2018, 06:49 AM
I'd be happy with the announcer simply confirming how much of a loser my opponent was.

I think that's an acceptable solution.

Charmzzz
07-23-2018, 08:35 AM
Wanting not to be punished after leaving a Match where 7 other human beings waited for is clearly more selfish than wanting a quit penalty imo. Please elaborate why it is "Ok" to start a Match with 7 other human beings if you know that it is very likely you have to leave in the first place?

I really don't understand this kind of thinking. You simply put your own fun over the fun of others. That's what I call selfish....

NinjaRonin85
07-23-2018, 09:22 AM
A lot of new players will be joining the game when the new faction drops, I'd advise against giving noobs a quit penalty when zero gear vs 180 gear teams stomp them, been playing rep 1 classes and gear matters more than skill, I was fighting a 2v1 and the guy I was fighting got revenge before I did and I got ganked, makes me laugh when people say gear stats don't matter.

ChampionRuby50g
07-23-2018, 12:11 PM
Just to weigh my opinion in, the quit penalty needs to be in the game. A level 3 bot will never be as valuable as a player, and someone who rage quits actively ruins the gaming experience of 3 other players who are on their team. If ranked play ever picks up steam, then remove it from casual. I understand players having to leave at times for important things, but if they are so important why are you upset about 10 minutes lost on a game?

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 12:18 PM
Ok, I hope that instead of quitting all the ragers on your teams just putz about and lose on purpose to get the match over quickly. That way they can get to a new match/team/opponent(s) without a penalty.

Quit penalty does nothing.

Vakris_One
07-23-2018, 12:39 PM
Ok, I hope that instead of quitting all the ragers on your teams just putz about and lose on purpose to get the match over quickly. That way they can get to a new match/team/opponent(s) without a penalty.

Quit penalty does nothing.
If it does nothing then why are you so dead set against it? Just close the program when you have an emergency if a 8-10 minute penalty is so harsh for you to come back to. Unless of course you quit out of matches so frequently that you might as well not be playing a PvP game anyway.

ChampionRuby50g
07-23-2018, 01:32 PM
Ok, I hope that instead of quitting all the ragers on your teams just putz about and lose on purpose to get the match over quickly. That way they can get to a new match/team/opponent(s) without a penalty.

Quit penalty does nothing.

People who leave are the same people who run into 2 players camping one objective, die everytime, then say Wow! straight after. Instead of raging, they should instead try something different like grouping up, instead off already throwing the game because they believe they can win 1v4 everytime. People who quit are often the ones who want to save their precious K/D. Throwing the game on purpose wouldn’t help them then, and plus Ubisoft has a report option for players who purposely play bad. So I imagine if a player does that enough it’s a bannable offence, hopefully. What if the other 3 players are enjoying the challenge and a hard fight, but suddenly one player throws a hissy fit because things aren’t going their way and now ruins their experience by just playing bad and feeding the enemy team renown? Is that how you justify it?

As already mentioned, when the penalty was around the rate at which people who left games dropped dramatically. Even though you can still get around it without a 10 min ban, it made a difference and for the vast majority of players it was an improvement. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few here.

NinjaRonin85
07-23-2018, 01:40 PM
90% of matchs my team sucks yet I don't know this until a few minutes into the fight, I know we cant win but I keep fighting on the off chance I get lucky, I'm sure a lot of players just quit but I remember when the penalty was active and we where getting wrecked my team would just give up and sit in spawn waiting for the end, at that point I would rather they quit and got a lv3 bot I mean at least a bot will try and cap zones or something.

Vakris_One
07-23-2018, 02:04 PM
Ok, I hope that instead of quitting all the ragers on your teams just putz about and lose on purpose to get the match over quickly. That way they can get to a new match/team/opponent(s) without a penalty.
I almost missed this. So wait. You're now actually advocating for rage quitters to spoil the game for their team if a rage quitters penalty is put back into place.

Seems like you're showing your true colours on this subject to be honest.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 02:15 PM
Omfg.... I'm not advocating it. Have you guys ready anything I've typed, or are you just noting it's an opposite opinion and replying with a disagreement?

I was attempting to bring up the scenario that will happen if they don't close the app.

Stop making it about me. Those were just minute examples that happened to apply to me (I very rarely quit)

A) People will quit no matter what
B) If they know there is a penalty they will either close the app, or **** around to get the match over with
C) If someone closes a game down it decreases the chances of them bothering to start it again
D) This in turn leads to less people playing the game
E) Having a quit penalty means shrinking the playerbase. Not having a penalty literally changes nothing.

Hopefully the bulletpoint type list will help you all understand. I dont give a sh/t about my play time - I'm trying to help the lifespan of the game.

Vakris_One
07-23-2018, 03:26 PM
Omfg.... I'm not advocating it.
You litterally wrote "I hope they do this"



Have you guys ready anything I've typed, or are you just noting it's an opposite opinion and replying with a disagreement?
Let's not try playing the victim card for the 3rd time in a row shall we? Because what you've been doing in this thread is primarily attacking people with a different opinion than yours with buzzword bingo and ignoring actually disputing their arguments. Instead you opt for ad hominem attacks like calling people "privileged, selfish" and etc. You've screwed yourself with that kind of hostile attitude. Nobody observing this will have any sympathy for you as the victim here.



I was attempting to bring up the scenario that will happen if they don't close the app.

Stop making it about me.
Now that's rich because you were the one who first made it personal by accusing another poster of having a priviledged lifestyle simply because they had a different opinion than you. Seems like it's okay for you to make the conversation about someone personally but it's not okay for that to then be reversed back at you.



Those were just minute examples that happened to apply to me (I very rarely quit)

A) People will quit no matter what
B) If they know there is a penalty they will either close the app, or **** around to get the match over with
C) If someone closes a game down it decreases the chances of them bothering to start it again
D) This in turn leads to less people playing the game
E) Having a quit penalty means shrinking the playerbase. Not having a penalty literally changes nothing.

Hopefully the bulletpoint type list will help you all understand. I dont give a sh/t about my play time - I'm trying to help the lifespan of the game.
Because all that BS talk about priviledge and the psuedo sob story about your personal life interrupting your gaming time was absolutely about the lifespan of the game, right?

You've said your opinions and that's perfectly fine. However you've attacked other people in a personal manner for stating their own opinions and that's not fine. Furthermore you've progressively changed your tune about three times in this thread without once admitting that you were proven wrong and thus the subsequent tune change. Honestly dude, it's just becoming a merry-go-round of whataboutery with you.

I just hope you can come to realise how unnecessarily hostile most of your earlier posts were in here.

DefiledDragon
07-23-2018, 03:34 PM
I was playing some dominion last night and in one of the games I noticed we were getting outnumbered a lot. The next time I died I went spectator and two of our team were stood in a neutral area of the map, spamming emotes at each other instead of actually playing the game. Would you continue to play, constantly being 4 v 2 ganked or would you want to quit? If you did quit a game like that, should you be penalised for it? Should the players spamming emotes at each other be penalised for not actually helping their team? Two bots would have been more useful than those idiots, who's actions were far more damaging to the game experience than somebody who randomly drops out. This issue isn't quite as clear cut as it might first seem really.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 04:02 PM
Vakris... none of that **** happened. That's all I can say. I was never hostile, never attacked anyone, and never had a sob story.

I'm trying to get you guys to understand. That's all.

The 'I hope' statement was merely that. I'm not actually wishing to some omni-being for games to be marred. I'm giving you an example of what will happen.

Calling a viewpoint privileged is not an attack. Again, I'm not saying that poster is privileged. If you can't see the difference then please stop debating.

I meant to stop making it about me because you guys are focusing on the wrong thing. All you read is 'no penalty' and you latch on to the opposite with frothing words. I dont give a **** if you attack me or my life - you're all faceless replies on a forum, your words mean nothing.

CandleInTheDark
07-23-2018, 04:33 PM
Vakris... none of that **** happened. That's all I can say. I was never hostile, never attacked anyone, and never had a sob story.

I'm trying to get you guys to understand. That's all.

The 'I hope' statement was merely that. I'm not actually wishing to some omni-being for games to be marred. I'm giving you an example of what will happen.

Calling a viewpoint privileged is not an attack. Again, I'm not saying that poster is privileged. If you can't see the difference then please stop debating.

I meant to stop making it about me because you guys are focusing on the wrong thing. All you read is 'no penalty' and you latch on to the opposite with frothing words. I dont give a **** if you attack me or my life - you're all faceless replies on a forum, your words mean nothing.

Ok so you keep spouting a lot of stuff about 'privilege', basically arguing that no one who is arguing that people should not be doing something they can't drop when they are caring for someone is saying this from a position of having experienced this.

Here is the problem when you play buzzword bingo in a place you don't know people, some of us have. That I am a professional carer aside I also cared for a family member with late stage cancer, this after a day of working with special needs children at a school. When I was the one there to care for her I was not playing games on my console and, if I had had a PC capable of gaming as I do now, the last thing I would have done is put myself in a position where I cannot drop something right now without inconveniencing the people I was playing with.

There are plenty of games out there and there are game modes in For Honor you can pause or leave without inconveniencing people, so to use personal circumstances like this to argue for a quality of life type thing, that's a pretty low thing to be doing for someone who should have all of their focus on the person in their care.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 04:38 PM
^
Not the argument. That was the OP's example, and then a person told him that he shouldn't play a game unless he can have his priviledge of playing how he does. I butted in because I hate it when someone tells someone else they shouldn't play a game (be it for this reason or any other).

And can you all stop using that buzzword term. Its deconstructive to the conversation. As I explained, I am in no way using the word priviledge as is thrown around by liberals this millennium. It was a word long before that.

Arekonator
07-23-2018, 04:50 PM
You are using it to invalidate others side argument. Its exactly what they do. "you are privileged therefore your argument dont count."
Nobody told to OP "dont play the game", except you putting that sentence in peoples mouth.

CandleInTheDark
07-23-2018, 04:56 PM
^
Not the argument. That was the OP's example, and then a person told him that he shouldn't play a game unless he can have his priviledge of playing how he does. I butted in because I hate it when someone tells someone else they shouldn't play a game (be it for this reason or any other).

And can you all stop using that buzzword term. Its deconstructive to the conversation. As I explained, I am in no way using the word priviledge as is thrown around by liberals this millennium. It was a word long before that.

Except when people use words like privilege and the -isms to shut down arguments as you are doing that is exactly what it is, a buzzword. A word people use as an automatic 'I win so stop arguing with me button' thereby diluting the word in circumstances where it is actually relevant. There is a lot of it about nowadays and every time people get away with applying it to their argument where it doesn't exist the people who actually are suffering from discrimination or people making arguments based on a higher 'privilege' lose a little more potency in their argument where it actually matters because people get to the point where the thought is 'x is used for everything these days this person doesn't know what they are talking about'.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 04:57 PM
Here's a thought:
If you know that you may have to leave at a moment's notice, if you don't know if you'll be able to sit through a full minute match without having to leave - Maybe don't play a team based competitive online multiplayer game, even in casual.

And I'm guessing you all have been ignorant of this paragraph because it supports your viewpoint.

Vakris_One
07-23-2018, 04:59 PM
You are using it to invalidate others side argument. Its exactly what they do. "you are privileged therefore your argument dont count."
Nobody told to OP "dont play the game", except you putting that sentence in peoples mouth.
Thank you.

CandleInTheDark
07-23-2018, 05:03 PM
And I'm guessing you all have been ignorant of this paragraph because it supports your viewpoint.

I can't speak for others, as you are doing, but I haven't ignored that at all. I, as someone who has been exactly where the OP is, agree with the post you quoted. If you don't have a guaranteed ten minutes you should not be doing something that takes ten minutes without inconveniencing the people you are doing it with if you leave, at the very least if there are consequences for doing so then that is on you, not the game. If you are in a 4v4 game there are three other people whose leisure time you screw up every time you leave them with a bot in a close game and those are the people the devs should be looking for the best interests of.

And before you stoop to saying well then I am saying the person being cared for should come second if OP is in a game, I have said the opposite in this thread already, the person you are caring for comes first and foremost in all things.

Vakris_One
07-23-2018, 05:05 PM
And I'm guessing you all have been ignorant of this paragraph because it supports your viewpoint.
Where in that paragraph does he state "you shouldn't play a game unless you can have the priviledge of playing how I do." - paraphrasing your own words here. He made a common sense observation which you turned into something completely unrelated based on your own misconstrued interpretation. I don't know how this can be made any clearer to you.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 05:25 PM
It can't, because you guys are wrong due to bias. I give up. Have your quit penalty and have the game lose players.

See you in the next topic, as I dont think any of us want to continue repeating ourselves.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 05:30 PM
I can't speak for others, as you are doing, but I haven't ignored that at all. I, as someone who has been exactly where the OP is, agree with the post you quoted. If you don't have a guaranteed ten minutes you should not be doing something that takes ten minutes without inconveniencing the people you are doing it with if you leave, at the very least if there are consequences for doing so then that is on you, not the game.

And before you stoop to saying well then I am saying the person should come second if he is in a game, I have said the opposite in this thread already, the person you are caring for comes first and foremost in all things.

Ugggghhhhh, one more post
Where did I speak for anyone else?

Second, THAT'S exactly the privileged stance I am arguing against. How can anyone be guaranteed that they will have ten minutes? A rock could fly through your window, an attack alarm from the city could go off, you could bite your nail and accidentally rip it off.

You all are making me sick.

CandleInTheDark
07-23-2018, 05:30 PM
It can't, because you guys are wrong due to bias. I give up. Have your quit penalty and have the game lose players.

See you in the next topic, as I dont think any of us want to continue repeating ourselves.

Fun, another buzzword. Again, what bias? Asking as someone who has been exactly where OP is.


Ugggghhhhh, one more post
Where did I speak for anyone else?

Second, THAT'S exactly the privileged stance I am arguing against. How can anyone be guaranteed that they will have ten minutes? A rock could fly through your window, an attack alarm from the city could go off, you could bite your nail and accidentally rip it off.

You all are making me sick.

You are speaking for the interests of OP in calling people who have disagreed with him privileged.

Second point, I am not talking about rocks, alarms or home invasion, I am talking about the context of the original post in that when you are caring for someone and it is likely they are going to need help you should not be doing something you cannot drop at a moment's notice without affecting other people. Also, in all of your invented other scenarios, you are likely to be busy much longer than ten minutes so the quit penalty should be the last thing on your mind.

Charmzzz
07-23-2018, 05:40 PM
This Thread still going? That Hazel-guy makes ME sick. Sure Bro, your fun is worth MORE than mine, so go ahead and leave my games as you wish... Pathetic...

Vakris_One
07-23-2018, 05:50 PM
I think you've embarassed yourself enough in this thread Hazelrah. It's frankly cringey to continue reading your posts which are increasingly filled with backpedalling, whataboutery, retroactive tune changes, delusion or trolling (I can't tell which), selective amnesia, purposeful obfuscation, hypocrissy of the highest calibre and playing the victim in some kind of made up fantasy land where the only valid viewpoint is HazelrahFirefly's.

This has been like watching Neymar writhe around on the floor as if his leg had been cut off and screaming for a penalty when the video replays show him diving to the ground all by himself from multiple angles with no one near him. Top kek :D

Arekonator
07-23-2018, 05:53 PM
This is some olympic-level reaching.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 06:13 PM
What advantage does a quit penalty give?

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 06:14 PM
I think you've embarassed yourself enough in this thread Hazelrah. It's frankly cringey to continue reading your posts which are increasingly filled with backpedalling, whataboutery, retroactive tune changes, delusion or trolling (I can't tell which), selective amnesia, purposeful obfuscation, hypocrissy of the highest calibre and playing the victim in some kind of made up fantasy land where the only valid viewpoint is HazelrahFirefly's.

This has been like watching Neymar writhe around on the floor as if his leg had been cut off and screaming for a penalty when the video replays show him diving to the ground all by himself from multiple angles with no one near him. Top kek :D

I'd love examples of these.

Arekonator
07-23-2018, 06:16 PM
I would gladly type them out, but what if meteor hits my house when i am typing? Not worth the risk.

Vakris_One
07-23-2018, 06:17 PM
I'd love examples of these.
Look back through this thread. Waste of my time to play your game Neymar Jr. Jr.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 06:18 PM
Look back through this thread. Waste of my time to play your game Neymar Jr. Jr.

Man, if I look through this thread all I see is the mob ignoring my point so that they can defend their viewpoint blindly.

What advantage does a quit penalty have?

I've gotten along with most of you extremely well until now. This is very strange.

Vakris_One
07-23-2018, 06:23 PM
I'd tell you but I fear my biased priviledged, selfish thinking would only make you sick again.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 06:24 PM
I'd tell you but I fear my biased priviledged, selfish thinking would only make you sick again.

Nothing. Got it.

Alustar.
07-23-2018, 06:28 PM
Ugggghhhhh, one more post
Where did I speak for anyone else?

Second, THAT'S exactly the privileged stance I am arguing against. How can anyone be guaranteed that they will have ten minutes? A rock could fly through your window, an attack alarm from the city could go off, you could bite your nail and accidentally rip it off.

You all are making me sick.

There is no realm of possibility where anything that could be construed as an actual emergency would hinder a person with a quit penalty. None. A literal emergency would take the player from the game for a minimum of an hour. Anything less was not an actual emergency.

To help prove this, I'm going to list actual emergency situations:
Threat of home intruder
Threat to life or limb
Sudden work responsibility
Family related emergency(see life or limb)
Sudden or catastrophic weather change(also see life or limb)
Any of these actual emergency situations, not only would you not care about a sudden quit penalty, by the time you resolved these issues, you would be well beyond the penalty threshold.

Examples of non emergencies:
Random bathroom breaks(for yourself, a pet or child)
Food breaks(for yourself, a pet or child)
Someone at your door
A casual call from friend or family

These are examples of situations that could arise that don't necessarily need your immediate and undivided attention and could likely be resolved by either handling them before a match starts, or waiting for an intermission between matches.

The issue those of us favoring a quit penalty are trying to get across is that in an accrual emergency situation, a quit penalty is the last of your concerns. Any other scenario could be avoided by better time management on the players side. The arguments you are making are done from the perspective of altruism, but when you break it down, the argument falls apart since there's no downside for a player being called away by a literal emergency. There is only a penalty to players that cannot balance their personal obligations or players that don't want to play on unfavorable match ups.

Alustar.
07-23-2018, 06:30 PM
I would gladly type them out, but what if meteor hits my house when i am typing? Not worth the risk.

I luled SO HARD!

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 07:20 PM
Thank you Aluster for reading and acknowledging my posts - something no one else has been able to do.

I don't see how a penalty could at all help. I only see how it can hurt. It will drive away players due to the ****ty matchmaking, skill gap, and lag.

Charmzzz
07-23-2018, 07:24 PM
Thank you Aluster for reading and acknowledging my posts - something no one else has been able to do.

I don't see how a penalty could at all help. I only see how it can hurt. It will drive away players due to the ****ty matchmaking, skill gap, and lag.

Matchmaking is not that bad mostly. If you get stomped does not mean that Matchmaking failed, it just happens sometimes due to Map, picked Hero combination, Teamplay etc. So leave that argument please, you cannot show evidence that MM is really that bad.

Darkmight_cz
07-23-2018, 07:25 PM
I'd tell you but I fear my biased priviledged, selfish thinking would only make you sick again.

Man dont respond to his post anymore he must be troll. Many of us gave him good examples why is necessary to implement quit penalties back into game. He just don't wanna hear it. He is stuck in his world where only his opinion is important and everybody else have to listen. 😉

Charmzzz
07-23-2018, 07:31 PM
Skill gap and Lag as legitimation to leave Matches, I won't even comment on that. Excuses...

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 08:04 PM
Skill gap and Lag as legitimation to leave Matches, I won't even comment on that. Excuses...

I know. We all know. But tell that to new players.

Charmzzz
07-23-2018, 08:07 PM
I know. We all know. But tell that to new players.

First you defended OP cause "privilege", then switched to "keep the game alive", and then back and another round... If a new player quits every time he loses - he wont get better and he will destroy alot of other players Matches that maybe leave the game cause of plenty Leavers....

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 09:02 PM
First you defended OP cause "privilege", then switched to "keep the game alive", and then back and another round... If a new player quits every time he loses - he wont get better and he will destroy alot of other players Matches that maybe leave the game cause of plenty Leavers....

Ahh I see. So that is part of the problem. It came off as if I were flip-flopping when all I was doing was engaging in different parts of the conversation. I have more than one view point and am capable of partaking in multiple discussions at once.

While I stand by everything I've said, not all my posts are linked into one defense. I believe I need to use the quoting option a lot more, but is very hard to edit down on my phone.

As fair as the last part of your paragraph. Again, I know, and we all know. Everyone who comes to this forum can be told why they shouldn't quit, but that's not tiniest of minority of players. When a Rep 0 gets matched with a Rep 200+ they will likely quit, find the penalty, and say screw it because the game was free or extremely cheap anyway.

Alustar.
07-23-2018, 10:07 PM
Ahh I see. So that is part of the problem. It came off as if I were flip-flopping when all I was doing was engaging in different parts of the conversation. I have more than one view point and am capable of partaking in multiple discussions at once.

While I stand by everything I've said, not all my posts are linked into one defense. I believe I need to use the quoting option a lot more, but is very hard to edit down on my phone.

As fair as the last part of your paragraph. Again, I know, and we all know. Everyone who comes to this forum can be told why they shouldn't quit, but that's not tiniest of minority of players. When a Rep 0 gets matched with a Rep 200+ they will likely quit, find the penalty, and say screw it because the game was free or extremely cheap anyway.

The problem is it's hard to precisely nail down -your own- personal opinion on the topic. You've had a habit of flipping between what can only be assumed as playing devil's advocate for one opinion, then countering position with how you actually feel.
First off, playing devil's advocate is difficult because you either have to commit to the sentiment and use your own arguments, or take a non bias stance and be willing to concede when a string of logic has proven a viable counter. Of which you have done neither to any measurable degree.

Case and point in the same flow of messages directed at myself, you went from discussing emergency situations, then when countered on that you switched gears to now it's about match making problems and qualify of life.

To touch on that now, even match making issues aren't a big enough problem to warrant not implementing this fix. I have two accounts, one on PS4, one on PC. Both accounts the matchmaking is very solid. On PC I hardly ever match up against anyone rep 30+ and I'm at the point now where it's rare I will be against anyone rep -7.
On console, it's the same but flipped, it's rare I will encounter anyone rep -30 and I will occasionally catch rep 100+.
That's normal, Furthermore, random matchmaking inconsistencies shouldn't be grounds for players to just quit. In most sports that would be considered unsportsmanlike conduct. You don't drop a match just because it's unfavorable, which is what you are condoning whether you realise it or not.
Not to mention, as Charmzzz said, matchmaking is probably the best it's been in some time. And there is very little hard evidence suggesting otherwise. And even my own post allot it is anecdotal at best. The bottom line is, it's not healthy to allow for unsportsmanlike conduct.

HazelrahFirefly
07-23-2018, 10:54 PM
I swear I was never flipping nor avoiding topics. I tried to respond to everything and sometimes had to summarize to keep up. I'm on my phone and at work most of the time.

As far as conduct, I dont see how casual play has any reference. I'm starting to think, thanks to your calm and reasonable responses, that this is something I just can't get with the masses on. Ranked modes? Hell yes have penalties. Anything else? No, it's a videogame.

I still believe that such penalties can only dwindle the player base, or at least stunt growth. My reasons are not so altruistic, as the reason I want the game to grow is so that my friends and I can continue having something to play together.

Alustar.
07-24-2018, 12:11 AM
Rules for conduct are just as important for casual play as they are for ranked/competitive play. First, the quit penalty is really only going to affect breach while the devs -consider it- for other game modes. So players first need to calm down and stop assuming that this is going live all across the board.

Second, it should be noted that the reason these changes are beneficial are because it helps foster a more constructive style of play. My reasons for say this is that a quit penalty is only going to reduce the amount of players who decide that they don't want to sit through an unfavorable match up. As has been stated many times, players feel they should be able to quit any match they get into where the opposing team has a vast majority of the reps involved. Which boils down to it's base as, "I should be able to quit if I see rep 60+ and I'm barely rep 20." And while I can understand that sentiment, that alone doesn't make it correct. For starters, that is wildly immature and, as I mentioned, very unsportsmanlike.

Also because at the very worse case scenario, you are so horribly out-played that the loss is a very quick one. In most cases you end the match well before a quit penalty could even last. Another reason it helps encourage better play is because every player (and new players especially need to be aware of this,) should be aware that you are not guaranteed to win every match. You are going to have to put in work to win, sometimes more than others. To put it bluntly PvP sees very little true "casual" play. PvP as a genre isn't really geared for casual play.

If we had a viable ranked option, I could very much agree (to a minor degree, though) that unranked play should be penalty free. But even then I don't see that as healthy because of that mentality that, "I only want to play favorable match ups". Which, of course. I too would only like to play favorable match ups. But the match making alone (regardless of where you stand on that opinion) is not a strong enough argument against having a quit penalty to justify why the overall experience of ALL players involved (not just your enemy) should be subject. The bottom line is rage-quitters are the aim here. They are the ones ruining game modes for the bulk of the player base. This penalty is not aimed at subjugating lesser skilled player or new ones, nor is it trying to thin the heard of the player base to ensure only the elite hardcore few remain in game. It's there dissuade players from flying off the handle and dropping the match because they got upset.

If the underlying issue for you were "is this really healthy for the game?" You should offer up counter suggestions to either assist in better match making, or find ways to ensure that more players complete matches instead of leaving for the possibility of a more favorable grouping. Cause right now, as it stands the arguments against it are as follows:

A player might have an emergency- Solution: is that a quit penalty wouldn't really be of concern to a player under emergency circumstances
A player might have a borked MM group and thus be wildly outclassed- Solution: Refine matchmaking and (most importantly) ensure players understand not EVERY match will always be ideal(cause that's how life is)
A player might be new- Solution: Practice, every player here was new at one point or another, and none of us got to where we are now skill wise by leaving out of a match simply because we were new and incapable of keeping pace.

Finally to touch on the possibility of "Dwindling player base" issues, I don't see that. Honestly right now is the worst position I have seen the community in since season 2. Without a quit penalty you have a large increase in players that get wrapped up in their emotions and make knee-jerk decisions just because something upset them. That's what a lack of a penalty does right now, it enables players to act like a child because they aren't having the ideal experience that they want.

To use an analogy, this is the same scenario as, lets say, we are back in the 90's, playing 007 Golden Eye and you kill me for the 49th time, I've got a grand total of 12 kills, and seeing that I am about to lose the game, I run up and yank the cartridge from the console before you can find and kill me, thus ending the match. From where I grew up, there were house rules about that. You didn't fly off the handle and react like that, you took your licks with grace or you didn't play at all. Which is how this should be: IF you can't lose gracefully, you probably shouldn't be playing to begin with.