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Citrinitas
07-09-2018, 04:32 AM
Highlander is REALLY fun to play as. But why? Why is he so fun? Here's why.

He can enter his offensive form. Easy mode activate.

He kicks. Now, you can dodge out of it, but that won't matter because he can feint to a grab, which will land if you dodged. Some characters have a dodge attack, but rarely is this ever even fast enough. Highlander kicks, it's a game of chance. Do they stand there and take it, or do they dodge and hope he was sticking with a kick? Well do I have fun news for all of you.

If you actually dodge the kick and they didn't do the grab after, you don't even get a guard break.

Huh.

Now who's the primate at Ubisoft that thought "Man, we should make a character who can just feint unblockable attacks to his heart's content and there's nothing they can do about it? We don't ever play our characters and see how impossible it is, we'll just let them suffer."

Yes, the best defense against highlander is to stay close to him, ironically enough. If he's not busy bathing Nvidia in glass, you might actually get a guard break when he's in offensive form, which is guaranteed, or you might, MIGHT land a light if he doesn't dodge out of it and proceed to take you to Flavortown. But hey, if you get close enough to him to try and guard break, watch out, this massive, beefy man has cracked the laws of physics and figured out how to move at the speed of light with his offensive form light attack, which, I believe, is up there with one of the most fastest hitting moves in the game. So, if the opponent highlander knows his weaknesses, you cannot get close to guard break him because he'll either light attack you, dodge out of your attacks meant to take him out of his form, or just start kicking and grabbing.

You can roll away by double tapping dodge...if you're not a heavy character or against a wall (which won't work). Most of the time it never works fast enough if you're Lawbringer or Shugoki. That requires a ridiculous amount of stamina, and gains you nothing. No attacks back at him, you just lose stamina, to which he can come and do it again, effectively draining you out of your stamina, at which point you're done for. If you ever get out of stamina against a highlander, you better start praying to the Virgin Mary because you are Nvidia...and you're about to bathe in glass.

Rinse and repeat to never be beat.

Now, I know Ubisoft will never actually read this or pay attention to it, but I only post this in hopes someone may notice. I know only some people will read this, some who agree with me, and highlander mains who don't want their mains to be nerfed so they have to learn real characters like the rest of us that require effort to win with.

Here are some reasonable suggestions because I can't rag on the character without having alternatives in mind, that would be unfair.

1: If his kick is dodged, give them a free guard break. Is that really too much to ask? That's the most fair thing in this list to ask.

2: His light attack shouldn't be that fast. He's an ogre, for crying out loud.

3: Feinting the kick into a grab honestly shouldn't be a thing. There's no way to effectively play against this, it's a game of chance. Kicking and grabbing should still stay in his repertoire, but only used by themselves. Heavy feinting into a kick should be the most he can mix up because if you're fast enough, you can dodge out of it, but it still is good enough to be effective.

4: Want more mix ups? Instead of feinting to a grab, I think it would be more feasible to feint the kick into a light attack. Yeah, that's still annoying, but if you could just dodge out of the kick, it would be cheap. Kicking would be dangerous, so that should be an alternative. Perhaps even go further and you can feint it into his side heavy ballerina move?

People complain about his dodge being too fast. He needs this to stay in offensive form, of course, and I think this should be the primary function of offensive form, bobbing and weaving through attacks. It's punishable and hard to do, but can be continuously done and requires actual skill to pull off.

Any further ideas for things he could do that would be better than the impossible feinting unblockable after unblockable?

RenegadeTX2000
07-09-2018, 04:49 AM
His light attack is fast... THat's when I stopped reading

Citrinitas
07-09-2018, 04:51 AM
His light attack is fast... THat's when I stopped reading

Your profile picture is when I stopped valuing your opinion :^)

RenegadeTX2000
07-09-2018, 04:54 AM
Your profile picture is when I stopped valuing your opinion :^)

So do you need the light attack to be 700ms? is the 600ms too fast to comprehend old man?

Sneakly20
07-09-2018, 05:13 AM
So do you need the light attack to be 700ms? is the 600ms too fast to comprehend old man?

Woah what?! He means his OF light man 😂

Citrinitas
07-09-2018, 05:15 AM
Woah what?! He means his OF light man ��

Guy was too busy trying to be the classic For Honor Salt Boy that he failed to actually read what I had written :^)

RenegadeTX2000
07-09-2018, 05:34 AM
Guy was too busy trying to be the classic For Honor Salt Boy that he failed to actually read what I had written :^)

You didn't even say Offensive Light, and it only does 10 dmg also he telegraphs his movement, all you need to do is look at him rather then look at the cursor to block his lights. He telegraphs his lights with the positioning of his body...

I haven't checked in awhile but I'm a top 5 highlander worldwide? also I got him to max diamond rank twice before he got the buffs. And I don't even touch him in singles that much anymore.

Conqueror actually beats highlander in 1v1's despite people saying he is a straight up counter. If anything it's a 50/50 match up. It's all about whoever establishes their neutral/spacing first in the mu.

can't be salty with a 90% win ratio. :^)

ChampionRuby50g
07-09-2018, 07:27 AM
You didn't even say Offensive Light, and it only does 10 dmg also he telegraphs his movement, all you need to do is look at him rather then look at the cursor to block his lights. He telegraphs his lights with the positioning of his body...

I haven't checked in awhile but I'm a top 5 highlander worldwide? also I got him to max diamond rank twice before he got the buffs. And I don't even touch him in singles that much anymore.

Conqueror actually beats highlander in 1v1's despite people saying he is a straight up counter. If anything it's a 50/50 match up. It's all about whoever establishes their neutral/spacing first in the mu.

can't be salty with a 90% win ratio. :^)



Well, maybe you should learn to read before straight up been arrogant and assuming things...

Quoted from OP
ďBut hey, if you get close enough to him to try and guard break, watch out, this massive, beefy man has cracked the laws of physics and figured out how to move at the speed of light with his offensive form light attack, which, I believe, is up there with one of the most fastest hitting moves in the game.Ē

Key words if you canít read that: ďoffensive form light attackĒ

It doesnít show up as been edited, so it was always there. So we can clearly see he did mention offensive light. No one cares about if your top 5 HL either, itís got nothing to do with this post. Itís just you blowing your own horn, but thatís pretty standard with you.

RenegadeTX2000
07-09-2018, 09:53 AM
Well, maybe you should learn to read before straight up been arrogant and assuming things...

Quoted from OP
“But hey, if you get close enough to him to try and guard break, watch out, this massive, beefy man has cracked the laws of physics and figured out how to move at the speed of light with his offensive form light attack, which, I believe, is up there with one of the most fastest hitting moves in the game.”

Key words if you can’t read that: “offensive form light attack”

It doesn’t show up as been edited, so it was always there. So we can clearly see he did mention offensive light. No one cares about if your top 5 HL either, it’s got nothing to do with this post. It’s just you blowing your own horn, but that’s pretty standard with you.

Being arrogant, not been arrogant**** learn to spell! Don't be a hypocrite now lol. don't be that. If I can't read, then you can't spell.

Also i read 50+ personal messages a day. You have to assume things, and not everybody can be perfect. i just skimmed it and got easily annoyed by the complaint. Any other scene will tell you to get good and adapt. not here, not this game. just complain and wait for the developers to do the work for you. so soft...

That's why Jeff Horn got exposed and lost his belt. No more champions for your country, the belts are back in America lolhttps://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a7a51d9e5bb665f3b976043f3c367e0a?width=1024

Vakris_One
07-09-2018, 10:21 AM
Well.... this went places....

ChampionRuby50g
07-09-2018, 11:12 AM
Being arrogant, not been arrogant**** learn to spell! Don't be a hypocrite now lol. don't be that. If I can't read, then you can't spell.

Also i read 50+ personal messages a day. You have to assume things, and not everybody can be perfect. i just skimmed it and got easily annoyed by the complaint. Any other scene will tell you to get good and adapt. not here, not this game. just complain and wait for the developers to do the work for you. so soft...

That's why Jeff Horn got exposed and lost his belt. No more champions for your country, the belts are back in America lolhttps://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a7a51d9e5bb665f3b976043f3c367e0a?width=1024

Donít get angry and start swearing now. Spelling a word wrong and intentionally not reading someoneís full post then going on to insult OP by calling them an old man when you have the complete wrong idea about what they are saying are two complete different things. You shouldnít assume in that situation, because you just look like a tool.

So what happens if youíre at work, you read 50 messages and skim the 51st and miss an important bit of info and that ends up costing your company lots of money because you got something wrong?

And youíre also comparing a country of 325 million people with a country of 24 million people. Us Aussies are amazing sportspeople for our population and GDP. Now imagine if we had 325 million people living here, with the funding your nation has. Itís clear we would stand out even more.

Erhanninja
07-09-2018, 11:55 AM
. He has counter crash on every direction. He has HA on heavies so dodging or dodge attacking it has no meaning because second heavy will always hit with massive damage. He rolling skates across the map covering massive distance. Throwing heavies while stepping back so canít get close coz of range and HA.

In 4v4 kick heavy is abused in every single match because there is no punishment. Go with your teammate and kick heavy kick heavy no recovery spam it whatís the worst can happen? Parry heavy get a light. He stunlocks against a wall kick into heavy repeatedly. Kick into grab is almost impossible to avoid depending on your hero. Yeah I can roll go OOS and HL covers double that distance with heavy anyway. His dodge kick into heavy is very good no recovery at all. Not to mention this move does absolutely ridicilious damage more than most heavies in this game. Obviously all other heavies. Offensive stance light what the hell is this move? I donít even understand. Is it even parriable? Balance of this game is so stupid. When so chose one hero I get bodied every time and then choose another hero (which Iím very less skilled) I kill everybody. Refer Shaman Zerk HL Kensei

SwellChemosabe
07-09-2018, 12:49 PM
i'm gonna go ahead and bring this back on topic with some feedback for the original post if ya'll don't mind.

Respectfully, of course, i kinda disagree with some of the things mentioned. If i read correctly you mentioned that his kick into grab is impossible to get away. I'd say it's not impossible to dodge, but rather very difficult to anticipate. The timing is tricky, that i agree with, but if you know that the highlander your fighting primarily goes for the kick into grab you can still dodge successfully and get a free guard break. it happens to me a lot as i play highlander as my secondary.

getting into his personal space is a good strategy but instead of trying to guard break him i'd say it's better to try to light attack. If you get close and wait too long it's all too easy for me to cancel my OF stance and counter. He has a fast dodge but unless you're dealing with a very skilled HL player i'd say about 70% of the time you'll hit them with a light attack, you get damag and knock them out of OF and if they want to go back into OF they'll have to back up. Going into that stance when you're toe to toe with someone is risky enough and anyone who tries that risks getting guard broken or light attacked immediately.

if they miss a kick, you get light attack but it has to be capitalized on as soon as you possibly can. half a second too long and they can potentially block it.

If however you're still insistent of switching from kick into grab to kick into light i'd say this: his OF lights cost a lot of stamina. with fully gear stats boosting stamina cost reduction i can probably only get about 4 light attacks in before i have to back off or leave OF stance (which in doing so i risk losing my stamina entirely, it costs stamina to leave the stance as well). If that were to be a change i'd say make those OF lights cost a lot less stamina or have them do a lot more damage. If i try to kick and my opponent dodges i still have that opportunity to grab them but if i kick, they dodge, and i try to light it can still be blocked with no benefit to me. so effectively i've lost stamina and gained nothing except for a little chip damage.

That could also be why the attacks are so fast, they cost stamina, they only do moderate damage, and they're done in a stance that you can't counter guard break in and can be knocked out of.



The unfortunate truth about HL is that you won't know how to react to him until you understand the player behind them and what they prefer. I've gone up against some who prefer to just kick and others who do kick into grab exclusively, most likely died a couple of times, and then managed to start beating them because once i've seen the pattern they choose i know how to counter it.

higher level players know how to use and abuse the OF stance so i'd recommend that entering OF stance from DEF (keep in mind i'm talking about the immediate transition, not the transition after an attack) it could be changed so that it costs a significant amount of stamina. You see a highlander, he goes into OF off the bat and boom, 1/3 or slightly more of his stamina is gone. Now not only do you have an opportunity to attack but he has to wait for his stamina to go back up if he wants to do anything worth having gone into OF to begin with.


those are just a few of my thoughts. I can understand the frustration with this character but i don't usually agree with any further changes suggested unless he gets something else in return. I played highlander pre-buff at the very start of season 3 so his rework was greatly appreciated by both myself and a good portion of the OG HL players. is it abused by noobs? absolutely, but as i said before it's all about learning the pattern and exploiting their lack of variety.

Charmzzz
07-09-2018, 01:02 PM
those are just a few of my thoughts. I can understand the frustration with this character but i don't usually agree with any further changes suggested unless he gets something else in return. I played highlander pre-buff at the very start of season 3 so his rework was greatly appreciated by both myself and a good portion of the OG HL players. is it abused by noobs? absolutely, but as i said before it's all about learning the pattern and exploiting their lack of variety.

I disagree. Having a move very similar to the old Warden Shoulderbash is NOT about learning the pattern. If a move is only countered with rolling away by the majority of players then something is wrong with that move, hence why they nerfed Warden Shoulderbash ages ago.

400ms OF Lights are strong. Having the best Dodge Recovery in OF is strong. Super-hard hitting, hyperarmored Heavies are strong. Counter Crush in every direction is strong. HL is abusive in high level play and needs to be addressed.

SwellChemosabe
07-09-2018, 01:17 PM
I disagree. Having a move very similar to the old Warden Shoulderbash is NOT about learning the pattern. If a move is only countered with rolling away by the majority of players then something is wrong with that move, hence why they nerfed Warden Shoulderbash ages ago.

400ms OF Lights are strong. Having the best Dodge Recovery in OF is strong. Super-hard hitting, hyperarmored Heavies are strong. Counter Crush in every direction is strong. HL is abusive in high level play and needs to be addressed.

Warden shoulder bash is a fifty fifty that you have to anticipate correctly in order to get out of or stop outright (which HL can't dodge and if they do dodge there's the other 50% chance of getting guard broken, so they have to just eat it until the warden runs out of stamina) And you don't have to just roll away to counter it. You can actually light attack a HL before the kick is complete and knock them out of it and same for kick into grab. If you know they kick into grab, you can dodge the grab and guard break or light attack. if you dodge the kick, light attack.

the OF light attacks are fast but don't do significant damage and as i said before cost a significant amount of stamina. The OF dodge may be fast and have fast recovery but if you guard break them while they're in OF they can't counter guard break. Hyper armor heavies are slow and can be parried easily. I agree that counter crush is strong and in some cases easier than parrying, but there aren't that many heroes you can counter crush successfully and be able to keep doing that throughout and entire match. eventually the opponent is gonna learn and mix it up (i would hope at least).

a lot of the problems pointed out have very effective counters to them, they may be difficult, but they're not impossible and if you truly have an issue with the hero in your matches then i'd recommend getting together with some skilled HL players and practicing.

Charmzzz
07-09-2018, 01:26 PM
Warden shoulder bash is a fifty fifty that you have to anticipate correctly in order to get out of or stop outright (which HL can't dodge and if they do dodge there's the other 50% chance of getting guard broken, so they have to just eat it until the warden runs out of stamina) And you don't have to just roll away to counter it. You can actually light attack a HL before the kick is complete and knock them out of it and same for kick into grab. If you know they kick into grab, you can dodge the grab and guard break or light attack. if you dodge the kick, light attack.

the OF light attacks are fast but don't do significant damage and as i said before cost a significant amount of stamina. The OF dodge may be fast and have fast recovery but if you guard break them while they're in OF they can't counter guard break. Hyper armor heavies are slow and can be parried easily. I agree that counter crush is strong and in some cases easier than parrying, but there aren't that many heroes you can counter crush successfully and be able to keep doing that throughout and entire match. eventually the opponent is gonna learn and mix it up (i would hope at least).

a lot of the problems pointed out have very effective counters to them, they may be difficult, but they're not impossible and if you truly have an issue with the hero in your matches then i'd recommend getting together with some skilled HL players and practicing.

Nope on that Warden SB thing you explained. Both moves are VERY similar to each other. You can Light Warden out of SB, too. The thing is: Warden has to do a Dodge first to initiate, so you can anticipate it earlier. HL goes into offensive form before getting close (that's what I see ALL the time: backwards Light into OF). Good luck then. Only some Dodge-Attacks work (PK e.g. does not work at all). Warden SB is not a 50:50, it is a 700ms Bash with the option for the GB being gone after the 700ms.

Having 400ms unblockable Lights is basically free damage when you get close. You won't come close enough for a GB to any decent HL when he is in OF.

HL will be Top 3 in Duel this Season. Calling it now.

Arekonator
07-09-2018, 01:41 PM
Are you aware that those lights are not unblockable?

SwellChemosabe
07-09-2018, 01:45 PM
His OF lights arent unblockable and can most certainly be parried. Fast? Absolutely, but not unblockable. Hard to parry? Correct but it can be done. If you see a Highlander back dash into OF then my recommendation is to wait him out. He has to come to you if he wants to do anything and once he gets close enough that another dodge will put him right in your face then wait for that and light attack before he recovers. If he sits there and waits then wait for backup in any 4v4 or just be patient. The longer you wait the more they are going to want to move in. In a 1v1 situation don't dodge towards them, just approach them and be mindful of their guard stance.

Everyone always wants to guard break but you have other strategies that work as well and need to utilize. Light attacks are always a good bet when you see him go into OF but under no circumstances should you ever underestimate the range of his unblockable. It covers a lot more ground than people realize. You absolutely can guard break them IN OF stance with no risk of a counter guard break but not after a missed kick. If HL is close enough to be GB just don't go for it unless you are 100% sure. Light attacks are your friend when face to face with an HL cheesing OF.

The reason I say it's about learning what the player prefers is that HL can only do so much before he runs out of stamina and, being the technical fighter he is, players often times need to think 3 moves in advance to manage their stamina cost. They'll have a very specific set of moves they'll use and once they do it becomes a rinse and repeat strategy until the opponent effectively counters it. Rarely will you see a player use the kick, use kick into grab, or even unblockable into kick into grab all in the same match. So if you see them use one of those it's safe to assume that will be their preffered method of attack. Then you can utilize the appropriate counters and beat them.

Charmzzz
07-09-2018, 02:09 PM
Are you aware that those lights are not unblockable?

I wasn't aware, true. HL's rarely used Lights in OF on me, they mostly used kick / grab or the UB heavy feint. ^^

Hm, then it feels like the same problem with Orochi 400ms chained Lights being almost impossible to block with a Reflex Guard...

HazelrahFirefly
07-09-2018, 03:12 PM
I'm pretty sure that the recovery between the HL's offensive lights is greater/longer than all the light spams in the game.

Also, I believe that the GB on a HL when he is in Offensive Stance is not guaranteed. As long as it can be teched I believe he can emote out of the gb.

Citrinitas
07-18-2018, 02:54 AM
Honestly, if an attack chain has to be "guessed", then there's something wrong with it. Everything should be reaction time, for serious. It doesn't matter how good of reaction time you have against Highlander, it's still a game of chance, and nothing can be done about that. I've had highlanders dodge through all my lights, then when i was at the end of my chain, continue to destroy me. He's 100% broken